All Steel Disc - Cake and eat it or not?

[baldbones]

So I'm looking for an all year round road frame with clearances for 32mm and have been researching over the festive period.
Just got back from a pretty wet ride, that yeah it coulda been better with discs but it was no less enjoyable.
But then spending quite a long time cleaning my calliper bike of all the grey/black grime form the brake area, my thoughts turned back to discs which I have been back and forth with for ages..

I love an all steel bike
I'm somewhere between OOS and OS tubing and typically find bikes too stiff so always seem to revert back to my lugged Zona OS bike once I've tried/bought others.

It would seem that to have a steel disc fork, it has to be overbuilt to be up to the task and personally I would only trust a few very experienced builders with the task. Those who ride and/or have done quite a bit of testing.
And even a few of those would only offer a Unicrown or segmented fork


So can it be done?

That glorious supple springy ride of an all steel bike and discs without a fork that weighs 1000g??

Whilst there are more Carbon options the majority have tapered steerers (too stiff for me I'm guessing. Had an Enve 2.0 straight steerer and didn't really like it(i.e. too stiff) but say a Columbus Minimal is ok) and of course limited rakes.

Owners/Builders what do you think?

Happy New Year!!!!

thanks
Rick

[CNY rider]

Do you have a bicycle with fenders?
That would be a good place to start.

[hollowgram5]

There's a Zanonato Road32 in the classifieds that has a 58.4 top tube. Check that out and the Zanc website and see if something like that is up your alley.

Your thought progression is a little difficult to follow, and jumps a bit. You mention discs but also mention a Columbus minimal (which won't clear 32s). I'm guessing you are referencing the ride quality of the minimal out of a steer fork.

As far as a unicrown or segmented forks, a few come to mind. Ti cycles does a production segmented, as does Iglehart. Tonic Fab and others do unicrown.

I'd start by making a list of must haves. Then build your list of "it would be nice" items. There are plenty of builders who can build what I think you are looking for. Eric at Winter, Mike Zanconato, Dave at Ellis, Rick at Hunter if he's taking orders again just to name a few.

[baldbones]

Yeah I was just referencing the minimal fork

The bike I was on has fenders

The answer I was looking for was to the question
Are steel disc forks an ineffective heavy overbuilt compromise?

Finding a builder not so much of a problem

Thanks though!

[saab2000]

Here's my Indy Fab on the rack this fall before a gravel road ride. It is equipped with a steel fork. I specced the bike to be able to take fenders and wide tires. The fork is no lightweight but it does what I want it to do.

This is a 'heavy' bike at about 21-22 lbs before pump and lights are added. The fork is a big part of that, probably a full pound heavier than a carbon fork. It rides fine but this is not a bike with the same sweet sensations of a lighter road bike. It's a brutish tool and in that capacity it works just fine. I'm sure it's overbuilt to withstand the added forces of disc brakes.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4428/36094548274_6a1f17cef0_b.jpg

[PaMtbRider]

Call Dave Kirk and tell him you want one like this. My wife loves this bike.

[David Tollefson]

There are several crown options for higher clearance forks. The fork blades specific to disc applications are heavier out of necessity. I've mixed a disc blade on the left and standard blade on the right to mitigate some weight gain, but I would only recommend it on road disc rides.

[NHAero]

My recollection is that the disc fork that Dave Anderson built for my frame is just under 1,000g. I can't feel what must be extra stiffness over other lighter forks, but I attribute that to running 37-622 tires. I imagine a carbon fork would cut that weight in half.

[colbyh]

I've been doing a bit of digging on this, as I'm pretty sure my next bike will be similarly built. There are a few brands out there making all steel bikes with steel forks and disc brakes, and AFAIK steel is more than strong enough to make a bike with 1 1/8" headtube and still ride super well.

http://www.cycleexif.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/bishop-bikes-di2-disc-road-1.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4597/38492198284_b545324d92_z.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/80/4f/e9/804fe972b080181695b7bd0efc1358ad.jpg

[John H.]

I wouldn't hesitate to do it.

I feel like discs are a huge win in terms of bike cleaning post ride. I now have a Parlee Chebacco that wears Honjo fenders for the rain.
Clean-up is super easy- no road grime on rims or frame/fork. Cleans up as easy as a dry weather bike. Just need to keep up on fresh brake pads.

In terms of the fork- I would use a steel fork, either from the builder, or maybe something like an Igleheart fork.
Steel fork gives you control over clearance and rake- win/win. It won't be too stiff.

[d_douglas]

Yes, this is not a black art. There are several (many?) builders who can do this and do it right - Kirk being the ones that springs to mind, but something more modest is possible too.

Many would say the grail of the steel frame and matching fork is the only way to go. If I get another steel bike, it would have a steel fork. With discs.

[timto]

I built this and enjoyed it very much this year. I thought the disc specific blades would be too stiff but not so at all in that particular length 395 atc and tire combo .... bike was a great resilient nice riding bike. I don't like carbon forks either!

Never a better time to build an all steel disc road bike with fat tires.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4598/38478542024_17f03745b3_c.jpg

[cachagua]

Never a better time to build an all steel disc road bike with fat tires...

The thing I'd like to see, I'm afraid is never going to happen. I would be all over a hydraulic set-up with a drop bar lever that a) has no shifter mechanism, so I can attach mine, and b) doesn't look like an alien's sex toy. I just can't accept the "styling", if we can so dignify it, of the recent crop of controls.

So probably in the end I'll settle for Hy/Rds or Klampers. Ah well, life is full of compromises.

[macaroon]

The thing I'd like to see, I'm afraid is never going to happen. I would be all over a hydraulic set-up with a drop bar lever that a) has no shifter mechanism, so I can attach mine, and b) doesn't look like an alien's sex toy. I just can't accept the "styling", if we can so dignify it, of the recent crop of controls.

So probably in the end I'll settle for Hy/Rds or Klampers. Ah well, life is full of compromises.

TRP Hylex?

[baldbones]

Thanks for all the replies

It seems most questions I have asked over the years here or across the hall seem to lead to Dave Kirk...!

But I’m in the U.K. and buying from the US is just more than the budget can stand unfortunately.

Looks liked a Shand just went to the top of the list.

Thanks again

[sales guy]

Thanks for all the replies

It seems most questions I have asked over the years here or across the hall seem to lead to Dave Kirk...!

But I’m in the U.K. and buying from the US is just more than the budget can stand unfortunately.

Looks liked a Shand just went to the top of the list.

Thanks again


If you're in the Uk, contact Enigma or Geoff Roberts. Enigma or Roberts would build you something.
If you want steel disc we've got that multiple ways! Ethos for basic road disc, Elite Disc- Columbus Spirit tubing. Extensor Disc for Columbus XCr Stainless. And if you want a ton of tire clearance, the Ecroix ST. We can absolutely make a fork for you.

[macaroon]

Talbot Frameworks?

http://talbotframeworks.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/DSC_6407.jpg

[baldbones]

Thanks for the tip
I’ve spoken to Jim before when I was considering a calliper bike he recommended the Esprit and it was he who suggested a Minimal after my experience with an Enve fork. He also thought Xcr and Spirit would be too harsh given my experience with a Max bike.

I’ve spoken to Geoff (but not about a disc bike) and Winston who worked for Chas Roberts for years as you probably know

Whilst I have the utmost respect for their skills I’m not sure how many steel disc forks they’ve made but I do know Steven st Shand has made quite a few.

Thanks again

[sales guy]

Thanks for the tip
I’ve spoken to Jim before when I was considering a calliper bike he recommended the Esprit and it was he who suggested a Minimal after my experience with an Enve fork. He also thought Xcr and Spirit would be too harsh given my experience with a Max bike.

I’ve spoken to Geoff (but not about a disc bike) and Winston who worked for Chas Roberts for years as you probably know

Whilst I have the utmost respect for their skills I’m not sure how many steel disc forks they’ve made but I do know Steven st Shand has made quite a few.

Thanks again

The Esprit is nice but it's Ti. If you want something not as harsh/stiff, the Ethos would be great. More traditional and not as harsh/stiff.

Geoff is a legend. His whole family is. He's done steel disc before. I've seen quite a few of them from his frame building classes. Between Geoff and Enigma they could certainly build you something.

[baldbones]

Re Talbot

Along with Feather, Saffron, Donahu, Rusby, August and Malcolm, I would rather go with experience although each do seem to do fine work
https://www.strongframes.com/more/how-to-choose-your-framebuilder/

[baldbones]

I didn’t think they did the Ethos anymore
Can’t see it on their website

[sales guy]

I didn’t think they did the Ethos anymore
Can’t see it on their website

They still offer it. Just call them up. Tomorrow of course as they were closed today. Normal hours tomorrow tho.

[sales guy]

That's a 25c tires with fenders. Without, I have gotten 30 and 32c tires. As long as they are true 30 or 32's. Not labeled 30 and really measure a 35.

I have one just like pictured and there is a Tufo Comtura Duo 28 on there and there is 3mm on each side on the fork and stays. And they measure 28.5 front and rear.

We don't advertise them as much cause 80% of the business is titanium. And that 20%, it's Elite frames. In the US, we are 65% steel and 35% titanium. And I have multiple shops buying Ezona, Ethos and Ecroix frames for floor stock. Big difference over here.

They still offer them.

[baldbones]

Enigma a lot closer than Scotland too!

A 57 with a steel fork and level top tube would be ideal

Thanks!!!

[sales guy]

Enigma a lot closer than Scotland too!

A 57 with a steel fork and level top tube would be ideal

Thanks!!!

Sure thing. Yeah, that could happen for sure. Since it's a Signature Series frame, it's made to order. Usually they have compact frames(sloping tt). But they could certainly make a level TT.

And yeah, A LOT closer than Scotland!

I LOVE this frame. Especially this color scheme. I think it's perfect. The one I have here has a custom wheelset on it with blue spoke nipples that match the panels. I don't have fenders on mine also. I will say, it looks like it'll fit fenders with a 28 on it. I haven't tried it. So not sure. I'll order a set and try. But this bike is so nice. It'll be at NAHBS for us as well as the Ezona.

[baldbones]

So back to the OP

What fork is that?

[sales guy]

So back to the OP

What fork is that?

That's our C-Six fork. We could do that, Columbus, Enve or a steel one. It's a nice fork. Not over the top stiff.

[oldpotatoe]

Yes, this is not a black art. There are several (many?) builders who can do this and do it right - Kirk being the ones that springs to mind, but something more modest is possible too.

Many would say the grail of the steel frame and matching fork is the only way to go. If I get another steel bike, it would have a steel fork. With discs.

Yup, here for less $.

http://www.gunnarbkes.com

or here, more $

http://www.waterfordbikes.com..has a carbon fork but Richard can do a steel fork also..

[MrDangerPants]

Drop Nao Tomii a line. Here's my (former) steel rig that took 35mm tires.

http://78.media.tumblr.com/a762a95dda1e5a641648a2720bddac0e/tumblr_nalzagNGt61tst9oeo1_1280.jpg

[VonTrapp]

[QUOTE=colbyh;2287485]I've been doing a bit of digging on this, as I'm pretty sure my next bike will be similarly built...

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4597/38492198284_b545324d92_z.jpg



This is about a perfect a bike I wish was mine.

[baldbones]

Yep that Bishop is a great looking bike

BUT that Tomii(which I've seen before on his Flickr page) is THE ONE!

I'm sad for the you that you had to sell it...more so it wasn't to me!

Stem, dt shifters, wheel set AND that frame...

Yeah that's what Im after

So how was the fork?? noticeably heavy or unoticeable?

Thanks
Rick