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NoMoreParagon
12-29-2017, 11:42 AM
anybody got their hands on thee new rims?
Initially i thought the expected delivery was late December..now according to its webshop its March '18...
would like to get a couple of 30mm disc carbon rims and looking to get feedback on rim quality...
thanks a lot!

arik
12-29-2017, 12:10 PM
I have my eye on these too. If the quality control and weights are spot on then they'll be very popular at those prices!!

NoMoreParagon
12-29-2017, 12:29 PM
only problem i see is the hookless rim profile. i really dislike that.
i still see no point to use hookless profiles other than MTB rims.
but since i will use wider tires, those are mostly tubeless ready with stiff beads so they should be ok.

wooly
12-29-2017, 12:46 PM
only problem i see is the hookless rim profile. i really dislike that.
i still see no point to use hookless profiles other than MTB rims.
but since i will use wider tires, those are mostly tubeless ready with stiff beads so they should be ok.

I don't know a thing about rim design but how would the forces of road or gravel riding be any more demanding than mtb? I ride plenty of mountain and it seems the forces on a rim are far greater there. Thoughts?

NoMoreParagon
12-29-2017, 01:02 PM
mostly question of high pressure....
hooked works safely at both low and high pressure...
hookless for MTB works cause of lower pressure...

hookless for road is a new territory...ENVE introduced it the first time with the 4.5AR and for them it works because its matched with tubeless tire only which have stiffer beads... thats why they are very adamant in NOT recommending standard clincher tires for the 4.5 AR since at high pressure the standard clincher beads can have unexpected behaviors to say the least

HUNT also has this hookless rim profile and their official stance seems v confusing..I asked them whether its possible to use standard clincher tires and you cannot get a straight answer...

ALTO has a newly introduced hookless rim profile BUT their rim side is apparently a tad higher and the rim lips seems slightly tilted and they apparently accept standard clincher tires even at high pressure. So it seems ALTO offers the best rim hookless profile as we speak right now.

Companises might tell you that hookless rims are better cuz they are lighter...but in my opinion there is also a cost factor. Setting up and designing a mold for hookless rim manufacturing is easier and cheaper...

ergott
12-29-2017, 02:13 PM
mostly question of high pressure....
hooked works safely at both low and high pressure...
hookless for MTB works cause of lower pressure...

hookless for road is a new territory...ENVE introduced it the first time with the 4.5AR and for them it works because its matched with tubeless tire only which have stiffer beads... thats why they are very adamant in NOT recommending standard clincher tires for the 4.5 AR since at high pressure the standard clincher beads can have unexpected behaviors to say the least

HUNT also has this hookless rim profile and their official stance seems v confusing..I asked them whether its possible to use standard clincher tires and you cannot get a straight answer...

ALTO has a newly introduced hookless rim profile BUT their rim side is apparently a tad higher and the rim lips seems slightly tilted and they apparently accept standard clincher tires even at high pressure. So it seems ALTO offers the best rim hookless profile as we speak right now.

Companises might tell you that hookless rims are better cuz they are lighter...but in my opinion there is also a cost factor. Setting up and designing a mold for hookless rim manufacturing is easier and cheaper...

Someone posted this elsewhere. Looks like the Alto and Pacenti rim profiles are exactly the same. Those are screenshots for their respective websites.

https://i.imgur.com/jtr4lTQ.jpg

Kirk Pacenti
12-30-2017, 09:13 AM
Thanks everyone for your interest in our new carbon rims. The 30mm is selling out fast on pre-orders; it looks like it will be our most popular product in no time at all...

As for the hookless bead design, we will expand and clarify the description / tech spec sections soon. In the mean time I can tell you that the hookless rim designs are rated for 110 psi. A very high pressure by today's wide tire and tubeless standards. It's hard to imagine an application or rider weight that would require more than 90 psi with a 25mm-28mm tire, much less for larger tires.

And while the hooked version are rated for more pressure (125psi), I wouldn't think of the hookless version as "less safe", but rather the hooked version as "even safer" Again, there is almost no situation today where 125psi would be necessary. Furthermore, all wheels have passed ISO and UCI safety standards.

It's important to note that hookless designs do not rely on the hook to retain the tire. Much like motorcycle and car tires, the rim's bead well (shelf) design is what firmly locks the tire in place. We've designed them in such a way as to be 100% secure, but quite easy to install tires by hand. There is also (in our tests) been little loss of spoke tension, when tires are installed.

I hope that helps. And as always, if anyone has further questions, feel free to contact me directly - kirk@pacenticycledesign.com

Cheers,
KP

NoMoreParagon
12-30-2017, 01:24 PM
Thanks everyone for your interest in our new carbon rims. The 30mm is selling out fast on pre-orders; it looks like it will be our most popular product in no time at all...

As for the hookless bead design, we will expand and clarify the description / tech spec sections soon. In the mean time I can tell you that the hookless rim designs are rated for 110 psi. A very high pressure by today's wide tire and tubeless standards. It's hard to imagine an application or rider weight that would require more than 90 psi with a 25mm-28mm tire, much less for larger tires.

And while the hooked version are rated for more pressure (125psi), I wouldn't think of the hookless version as "less safe", but rather the hooked version as "even safer" Again, there is almost no situation today where 125psi would be necessary. Furthermore, all wheels have passed ISO and UCI safety standards.

It's important to note that hookless designs do not rely on the hook to retain the tire. Much like motorcycle and car tires, the rim's bead well (shelf) design is what firmly locks the tire in place. We've designed them in such a way as to be 100% secure, but quite easy to install tires by hand. There is also (in our tests) been little loss of spoke tension, when tires are installed.

I hope that helps. And as always, if anyone has further questions, feel free to contact me directly - kirk@pacenticycledesign.com

Cheers,
KP

Thanks a lot Kirk for the explanation. Hookless rims seems a very controversial topic nowadays. I get why manufacturers introduced them. Rims are lighter and easier to produce. But dont they restrict riders to use tubeless tires only? Can you use normal standard clinchers?
I have also couple of other questions:
1) Also is the expected delivery March 2018 confirmed?
2) are the decals removable?
3) any reason why the alloy disc rims are asymmetrical whereas the carbon aren't?

thank you.

Kirk Pacenti
12-30-2017, 05:53 PM
See my comments in red below:

Thanks a lot Kirk for the explanation. Hookless rims seems a very controversial topic nowadays. I get why manufacturers introduced them. Rims are lighter and easier to produce. But dont they restrict riders to use tubeless tires only? No, not at all.

Can you use normal standard clinchers? Yes, absolutely.

I have also couple of other questions:

1) Also is the expected delivery March 2018 confirmed? Yes, we should start shipping to pre-order customers in mid-March.

2) are the decals removable? No, they are water transfers with a clear coat over top. That said, they are nearly invisible from just a few feet away.


3) any reason why the alloy disc rims are asymmetrical whereas the carbon aren't?
It's a concession to aerodynamics. We need to do more aerodynamic testing of taller asymmetric rim profiles before we bring something like that to production. The alloy rims are not as tall, and a bit thinner, so it's not much of an issue. The alloy rims are also targeted (more) toward all-road / gravel bikes with fatter tires, which further reduces the aero-impact of a asym rim profile.

Cheers,

KP


thank you.

NoMoreParagon
12-30-2017, 05:55 PM
See my comments in red below:

brilliant, thanks a lot Kirk

r_mutt
12-30-2017, 10:16 PM
Kirk,

Your pre-built wheels do not have a Campagnolo option. Are you using our own branded hubs (the ones you previously sold) based on the WI innards? Is a Campagnolo free hub swap is possible?

Kirk Pacenti
12-31-2017, 04:26 PM
r_mutt,

Our old hubs were made by WI and can easily be converted to Campy with a freehub swap. I don't think I have any in stock, but I can take a look.

Our new hubs are not made by WI, but are also easily convertible to Campy. We have Campy freehub bodies in stock, and can swap them out for you at the time of purchase, at no additional cost.

Cheers,
KP


Kirk,

Your pre-built wheels do not have a Campagnolo option. Are you using our own branded hubs (the ones you previously sold) based on the WI innards? Is a Campagnolo free hub swap is possible?

r_mutt
12-31-2017, 05:12 PM
r_mutt,

Our old hubs were made by WI and can easily be converted to Campy with a freehub swap. I don't think I have any in stock, but I can take a look.

Our new hubs are not made by WI, but are also easily convertible to Campy. We have Campy freehub bodies in stock, and can swap them out for you at the time of purchase, at no additional cost.

Cheers,
KP

Ok Thanks!