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View Full Version : Are some manufacturers slowly moving back to threaded BB’s?


Cicli
12-28-2017, 05:43 AM
I aquired a 2017 Specialized Roubaix frameset. It was a warranty replacement from a dealer and never built up. I bought the new frameset in the box and the parts from the shop that stripped the original for warranty for cheap. Got it in the mail yesterday and to my suprise it has a threaded bottom bracket. I am happy about that. Its no botuque frame but its not super low end either. I dont know what model it would have been but it is a 10r carbon layup (whatever that means) so I read thats not supppppppper cheap.
Like I said, I know that its nothing boutique but to find a threaded BB on a mainstream carbon frame is cool.
Why did I buy it? Because I have rented a few of these from a shop and the fit and ride is awesome. This popped up new and with the move to discs I had to get one while I still could get a new one.

binxnyrwarrsoul
12-28-2017, 06:00 AM
We can only hope. Every single bike I own or have owned had/has a threaded BB. Many amazing frames/bikes will never be in the bike cave (cough C-60) because of the wonky (imo) BB standards.

fignon's barber
12-28-2017, 06:27 AM
I've had one press fit frame. That was enough for me.

oldpotatoe
12-28-2017, 06:37 AM
I aquired a 2017 Specialized Roubaix frameset. It was a warranty replacement from a dealer and never built up. I bought the new frameset in the box and the parts from the shop that stripped the original for warranty for cheap. Got it in the mail yesterday and to my suprise it has a threaded bottom bracket. I am happy about that. Its no botuque frame but its not super low end either. I dont know what model it would have been but it is a 10r carbon layup (whatever that means) so I read thats not supppppppper cheap.
Like I said, I know that its nothing boutique but to find a threaded BB on a mainstream carbon frame is cool.
Why did I buy it? Because I have rented a few of these from a shop and the fit and ride is awesome. This popped up new and with the move to discs I had to get one while I still could get a new one.

Doubt it. It's cheaper to make press in BB stuff, particularly with YUGE down tubes, easier to attach a big tube to a big tube. BUT I think some economy of scale shows a threaded BB tube, bionded into the frame, into the mold, can be cost effective. It's all about $..they care little if the BB is a creak-fest.

JAGI410
12-28-2017, 07:03 AM
I've had one press fit frame. That was enough for me.

Same

Big Dan
12-28-2017, 07:44 AM
I gave up on them and integrated headsets.
Happy home mechanic.

:cool:

R3awak3n
12-28-2017, 08:13 AM
dunno but even though I never had problems with my PF30 bike, I wish they did.

I am putting together another pf30 bike and man is it annoying. Decided to install the praxis screw in bracket because have heard great things. Such an annoying piece of kit, need 2 BB tools, you have to use a press in tool as well. What a mess really. It went in ok, I think but all could have been avoided with a BSA bb.

This is only annoying if using campy, if I was using a hollowgram crank, it would have been totally fine and not that bad. THat is what I was using on my spooky and never had problems.

zap
12-28-2017, 08:20 AM
edit

I aquired a 2017 Specialized Roubaix frameset. It was a warranty replacement from a dealer and never built up. I bought the new frameset in the box and the parts from the shop that stripped the original for warranty for cheap. Got it in the mail yesterday and to my suprise it has a threaded bottom bracket.

While shopping for a new road bike recently, I noticed that lower level Specialized bikes had threaded bb......and cheaper cranksets.

ltwtsculler91
12-28-2017, 08:26 AM
The challenge with carbon is that a threaded BB means that you'll need to bond/mold in some sort of metal insert to screw the BB into. Cutting threads into carbon won't work so well.

In a world were weight is king (for marketing), I just don't see many companies doing this on mainstream bikes.

Maybe I haven't been around long enough, but it seems to me that when a pressfit is done right and set up correctly, it works fine. I've had no creaking issues from either of my Treks (BB90 and BB86.5) and the Boone sees a ton of wet and muddy rides.

jtbadge
12-28-2017, 08:30 AM
Maybe I haven't been around long enough, but it seems to me that when a pressfit is done right and set up correctly, it works fine. I've had no creaking issues from either of my Treks (BB90 and BB86.5) and the Boone sees a ton of wet and muddy rides.

+1. My PF30 and BB30 bikes with SRAM native cranks were silent and painless. I hear way more creaking from this cranky forum whenever this topic comes up. Especially from those who have used silly adapters.

m_moses
12-28-2017, 08:38 AM
This is only annoying if using campy, if I was using a hollowgram crank, it would have been totally fine and not that bad. THat is what I was using on my spooky and never had problems.


Sounds like you’re building up a Cannondale. I’m planning to build up a super six and don’t want to use a press fit BB. I don’t have a crankset yet but will likely get a SRAM Red. Was considering using the Praxis pf30 to gxp conversion BB. Do you think that will work well?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

mistermo
12-28-2017, 08:42 AM
Isn't T47 the new threaded BB standard? My new Hakka MX frameset has one and I'm enthused about the crankset options it allows.

hollowgram5
12-28-2017, 08:43 AM
+1. My PF30 and BB30 bikes with SRAM native cranks were silent and painless. I hear way more creaking from this cranky forum whenever this topic comes up. Especially from those who have used silly adapters.Agreed. I've had as many threaded bikes as I've had PF30 and BB30 bikes. While the majority of then have been Cannondales and I use hollowgram cranks, not one has ever made noises unless things weren't installed properly or torqued down enough. A quick re-torque and never a sound after that.

hollowgram5
12-28-2017, 08:48 AM
Sounds like you’re building up a Cannondale. I’m planning to build up a super six and don’t want to use a press fit BB. I don’t have a crankset yet but will likely get a SRAM Red. Was considering using the Praxis pf30 to gxp conversion BB. Do you think that will work well?



Sent from my iPad using TapatalkThe praxis adapter works very well, just ensure you have two bb tools. R3's issue comes from the Praxis design of the adapter halves threading together. You need one bb tool to hold the NDS and the other to tighten the drive side.

What generation SuperSix? The newer evos are bb30a or pf30a which is 5mm wider to the NDS.. just keep that in mind while searching for your bb adapter.

fignon's barber
12-28-2017, 08:58 AM
Doubt it. It's cheaper to make press in BB stuff, particularly with YUGE down tubes, easier to attach a big tube to a big tube. BUT I think some economy of scale shows a threaded BB tube, bionded into the frame, into the mold, can be cost effective. It's all about $..they care little if the BB is a creak-fest.


I never understood the marketing line that says a PF is good because you can have bigger stiffer BB's. Why can't you have a big BB with a threaded BB? Am I missing something?

thegunner
12-28-2017, 09:00 AM
I never understood the marketing line that says a PF is good because you can have bigger stiffer BB's. Why can't you have a big BB with a threaded BB? Am I missing something?

you can, which is why they decided to make a new T47 standard... sigh

dancinkozmo
12-28-2017, 09:05 AM
not very high end but the 2018 kona jake the snake cx bike still uses a threaded bb...


https://www.bikerumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/CX-Kona-Major-Jake-the-snake-super-cyclocross-carbon-aluminum-2018Kona-bikes-2018-Major-jake-the-snake-cx-cyclocross-gravel-64.jpg

FlashUNC
12-28-2017, 09:10 AM
The short answer is no, they're not.

Black Dog
12-28-2017, 09:12 AM
I never understood the marketing line that says a PF is good because you can have bigger stiffer BB's. Why can't you have a big BB with a threaded BB? Am I missing something?

This is exactly what Colnago is doing with the C-60. They have a oversized threaded BB that inserts are threaded into reduce it to what ever BB "standard" is needed.

Mark McM
12-28-2017, 11:50 AM
Some manufacturers never went away from threaded BBs - and I'm not talking small builders, or those who make mostly metal frames. For example, Pinarello is one of the more successful frame makers (if you measure by pro racing wins), and they have always used threaded BB shells, up to and including their latest and greatest Dogma F10 frames (both rim and disc brake models).

fignon's barber
12-28-2017, 12:32 PM
you can, which is why they decided to make a new T47 standard... sigh


Yes, but that's my point. Why can't they just use a regular sized BB and standard threads in a super duper stiff bb. If the gigantic bb is so stiff and wonderful, why do you need a large T47?

ltwtsculler91
12-28-2017, 01:10 PM
Yes, but that's my point. Why can't they just use a regular sized BB and standard threads in a super duper stiff bb. If the gigantic bb is so stiff and wonderful, why do you need a large T47?

BB30 cranks tend to be lighter, and T47 is really only found in metal bikes where sticking an oversized tube with a ton of excess material to make the BB hole a standard size would add significant weight.

In this context T47 makes sense to me, on a carbon bike not as much

Kontact
12-28-2017, 01:19 PM
The threaded Colnago oversized system is in carbon bikes.


What's funny about all of the standards is that Shimano and Campy haven't switched over to them (as far as I've heard). If you want to build a complete bike with all Shimano or Campy BB parts, you need an English or Italian BB shell.

bikinchris
12-28-2017, 04:20 PM
I never understood the marketing line that says a PF is good because you can have bigger stiffer BB's. Why can't you have a big BB with a threaded BB? Am I missing something?

It's more work (More work=higher cost) to put a BSC bottom bracket shell on a frame with oversized tubes. The T47 seems to be a compromise. Maybe that can stick on oversized frames in the future.

weaponsgrade
12-28-2017, 04:23 PM
Ibis went from press fit to threaded.

arik
12-28-2017, 05:16 PM
Since you can get BSA threaded BB's for 30 mm spindles these days, there seems to be little downside to using the tried and true BSA standard.

Kontact
12-28-2017, 06:04 PM
The downside to threaded English BBs is that you can't market how stiff yet light you frame's BB area is by making it Q-killing extra wide.

Mark McM
12-28-2017, 06:43 PM
What's funny about all of the standards is that Shimano and Campy haven't switched over to them (as far as I've heard). If you want to build a complete bike with all Shimano or Campy BB parts, you need an English or Italian BB shell.

Huh? While Shimano may not have bought into press-fit BBs, Campagnolo supplies BB cups for a wide variety of BB standards. For example, even though the BBright standard is almost completely limited to Cervelos, Campagnolo even makes BBright cups (I've got two Cervelos with completely Campagnolo cranks/BBs)

http://i.imgur.com/PuOmh84.jpg

jtbadge
12-28-2017, 06:49 PM
Huh? While Shimano may not have bought into press-fit BBs, Campagnolo supplies BB cups for a wide variety of BB standards. For example, even though the BBright standard is almost completely limited to Cervelos, Campagnolo even makes BBright cups (I've got two Cervelos with completely Campagnolo cranks/BBs)

Shimano also sells a few variations of press fit cups.

The downside to threaded English BBs is that you can't market how stiff yet light you frame's BB area is by making it Q-killing extra wide.

Not sure what you mean by this. BB30 and PF30 shells and cranks are narrower than BSA. The Shimano, Trek, and GXP (for example) press fit standards for 24mm spindles all use the same cranks as their threaded cup counterparts.

bmeryman
12-28-2017, 06:52 PM
Santa Cruz is another brand that has stuck with the threaded bb.

It's appreciated for sure. I will say that I'm happy about T47 though. If we, as a culture, completely forgot how to attach crankarms to the frame I'd like to think that T47 would be the standard across the board. Or maybe Ashtabula would become standard again...

R3awak3n
12-28-2017, 08:52 PM
Sounds like you’re building up a Cannondale. I’m planning to build up a super six and don’t want to use a press fit BB. I don’t have a crankset yet but will likely get a SRAM Red. Was considering using the Praxis pf30 to gxp conversion BB. Do you think that will work well?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

not a cannondale. I bet the praxis bb you talk about works well. The one I installed, although annoying, seems well tought out and went together fine. Only time will tell though. Could also always use wheels manufacturing adaptor, cheap and works great.

sales guy
12-28-2017, 09:10 PM
Yes, but that's my point. Why can't they just use a regular sized BB and standard threads in a super duper stiff bb. If the gigantic bb is so stiff and wonderful, why do you need a large T47?

Our main shell is an English 68mm threaded. BUT, we had an issue with it when we put the 30mm Rotor spindle in it and ran the hydro shift lines thru the frame. This is where a PF30/BB30 or T47 would've been great. Much more room, less modifying.

But we use a threaded as standard. The owner hates noises. With a threaded, it's just so much better. No noise. Universal.

oldpotatoe
12-29-2017, 06:34 AM
The threaded Colnago oversized system is in carbon bikes.


What's funny about all of the standards is that Shimano and Campy haven't switched over to them (as far as I've heard). If you want to build a complete bike with all Shimano or Campy BB parts, you need an English or Italian BB shell.

The company who hasn't made anything except their thread-in BB cups is shimano. Campag has a whole lineup of press in BB cups..not the quietest out there but they at least have them. shimano..zero.

oldpotatoe
12-29-2017, 06:38 AM
Shimano also sells a few variations of press fit cups.

Not sure what you mean by this. BB30 and PF30 shells and cranks are narrower than BSA. The Shimano, Trek, and GXP (for example) press fit standards for 24mm spindles all use the same cranks as their threaded cup counterparts.

Got a picture or link? Not doubting you but a wander thru shimano tech docs, I didn't see anything but threaded cups. Lotsa aftermarket stuff but no shimano made I could find.

steveandbarb1
12-29-2017, 06:43 AM
Ok, there are more manufacturing scale of efficiency with press in, however warranty costs must factor in, or do most people just live with tick tick tick...

R3awak3n
12-29-2017, 06:45 AM
Ok, there are more manufacturing scale of efficiency with press in, however warranty costs must factor in, or do most people just live with tick tick tick...

But thats assuming everyone has creaks which is just absolutely not true

R3awak3n
12-29-2017, 06:47 AM
The company who hasn't made anything except their thread-in BB cups is shimano. Campag has a whole lineup of press in BB cups..not the quietest out there but they at least have them. shimano..zero.

The campy pf30 cups are an attrocity, I would have much rather they didnt release anything. Those cups went straight to the carbage.

Likes2ridefar
12-29-2017, 07:52 AM
I aquired a 2017 Specialized Roubaix frameset. It was a warranty replacement from a dealer and never built up. I bought the new frameset in the box and the parts from the shop that stripped the original for warranty for cheap. Got it in the mail yesterday and to my suprise it has a threaded bottom bracket. I am happy about that. Its no botuque frame but its not super low end either. I dont know what model it would have been but it is a 10r carbon layup (whatever that means) so I read thats not supppppppper cheap.
Like I said, I know that its nothing boutique but to find a threaded BB on a mainstream carbon frame is cool.
Why did I buy it? Because I have rented a few of these from a shop and the fit and ride is awesome. This popped up new and with the move to discs I had to get one while I still could get a new one.

I just got one of these a few months ago and it is easily my favorite ride ever for a road bike.

avalonracing
12-29-2017, 08:10 AM
But thats assuming everyone has creaks which is just absolutely not true

If you can't hear every damn press-fit BB creaking you just aren't listening hard enough.:D

ltwtsculler91
12-29-2017, 08:13 AM
Got a picture or link? Not doubting you but a wander thru shimano tech docs, I didn't see anything but threaded cups. Lotsa aftermarket stuff but no shimano made I could find.

They make them for 24mm spindle cranks in BB86.5 and BB90 bikes.
http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/road/drivetrain/bottom-brackets.html

I ran one of the BB86.5 when I was running ultegra on my Emonda ALR, it was definitely better with creaking/noise than the BB30 on my previous CAAD, but going to SRAM with a GXP crank is even better. No noise after any wet rides on either the ALR or the Boone which both have pressfit GXP BBs

oldpotatoe
12-29-2017, 08:26 AM
They make them for 24mm spindle cranks in BB86.5 and BB90 bikes.
http://bike.shimano.com/content/sac-bike/en/home/road/drivetrain/bottom-brackets.html

I ran one of the BB86.5 when I was running ultegra on my Emonda ALR, it was definitely better with creaking/noise than the BB30 on my previous CAAD, but going to SRAM with a GXP crank is even better. No noise after any wet rides on either the ALR or the Boone which both have pressfit GXP BBs

Thanks, some of the things I don't know cuz I don't 'get wet' in the bike shop
anymore.

:)

fignon's barber
12-29-2017, 08:32 AM
The campy pf30 cups are an attrocity, I would have much rather they didnt release anything. Those cups went straight to the carbage.

I've got campag BB86 cups on my Canyon with SR11 cranks. It took 3 tries to find the proper Loctite version, but they have been silent for about 2 years.

saab2000
12-29-2017, 08:40 AM
The company who hasn't made anything except their thread-in BB cups is shimano. Campag has a whole lineup of press in BB cups..not the quietest out there but they at least have them. shimano..zero.

My Giant has a pressed-in BB86 and I believe it to be Shimano. It works fine though it could just as easily not work fine.

Count me among the people who thinks anything but threaded is a very bad idea. I don't even mind if they want a new standard of threaded, but please make it threaded. My Looks are all threaded and so easy to maintain.

ltwtsculler91
12-29-2017, 08:50 AM
Thanks, some of the things I don't know cuz I don't 'get wet' in the bike shop
anymore.

:)

It's amazing all the little things like this you pick up in the shop. Until I started my part time gig, I never knew how complicated all these parts got...

oldpotatoe
12-29-2017, 08:54 AM
It's amazing all the little things like this you pick up in the shop. Until I started my part time gig, I never knew how complicated all these parts got...

One of my gripes is to call anything 'BB' or 'axle' a 'standard'...a lot of this 'stuff, I'm glad to be away from..I don't have to

-work on it
-sell it
-ride with it.....

wheels are wheels..hub, spokes, rim..at least that's pretty 'standard'...for hand builts anyway.

unterhausen
12-29-2017, 10:42 AM
One of my gripes is to call anything 'BB' or 'axle' a 'standard'...a lot of this 'stuff, I'm glad to be away from..I don't have to
as the saying goes, the nice thing about standards is that everyone can have their own. The ever proliferating axle standard progression is really annoying. I had just bought TA dummy axles and then Boost came along and 12mm road front TA. Those $100 sets of dummy axles for each variant really start to add up. Why the road guys didn't just go with 100mm 15mm TA, I am choosing to not understand.

m_moses
12-30-2017, 01:46 PM
I thought this video by Raoul Luescher about BB30/PF30 was interesting. He makes some valid points about tolerances in production environments that lead to less than ideal installations.

https://youtu.be/RFa5HBfRhnE


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

oldpotatoe
12-30-2017, 01:49 PM
as the saying goes, the nice thing about standards is that everyone can have their own. The ever proliferating axle standard progression is really annoying. I had just bought TA dummy axles and then Boost came along and 12mm road front TA. Those $100 sets of dummy axles for each variant really start to add up. Why the road guys didn't just go with 100mm 15mm TA, I am choosing to not understand.

15mm vs 12mm is so heavy and un-aero, duh, and everybody knows it....

->:)

That’s why when I crimp my cable condoms I do it fore-aft direction, for aero ness. Geeez don you know nuthin?

Kontact
12-30-2017, 03:24 PM
I thought this video by Raoul Luescher about BB30/PF30 was interesting. He makes some valid points about tolerances in production environments that lead to less than ideal installations.

https://youtu.be/RFa5HBfRhnE


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

It's funny how the press fit BBs of the '80s had excellent reputations but bike companies today can't manage to make a straight how to press bearings into.

Black Dog
12-30-2017, 04:53 PM
It's funny how the press fit BBs of the '80s had excellent reputations but bike companies today can't manage to make a straight how to press bearings into.

In the 80's they were machining steel (edit: I meant to say metal here) BB shells for the bearings to press into. Molding a high tolerance opening with carbon fibre is a different beast. The molds may be perfect but the thing coming out of them rarely is. Look at the rear triangle alignment of many high end CF production frames.

Kontact
12-30-2017, 07:06 PM
In the 80's they were machining steel BB shells for the bearings to press into. Molding a high tolerance opening with carbon fibre is a different beast. The molds may be perfect but the thing coming out of them rarely is. Look at the rear triangle alignment of many high end CF production frames.

Steel, aluminum and titanium. I had thought many of the issues where with aluminum Cannondales and aluminum shells in carbon. Does anyone make a carbon BB30 shell with the circlips?

oldpotatoe
12-31-2017, 07:04 AM
It's funny how the press fit BBs of the '80s had excellent reputations but bike companies today can't manage to make a straight how to press bearings into.

Merlin, Klein..I guess except when you wanted to change a crank or find the merlin tool kit..They worked pretty well but were no fun to work on.

And didn't Merlin offer a freebie, convert to threaded BB shell, once upon a time?

Mark McM
12-31-2017, 07:30 AM
And didn't Merlin offer a freebie, convert to threaded BB shell, once upon a time?

Yes they did have a program to swap BB shells. This involved cutting out the orginal shell, and welding in a new shell (joints with the downtube, seat tube and chainstay rewelded). I know at least one person who had his frame converted. My recollection was that the service was reasonably priced (a few hundred dollars), but it definitely not free.

Kontact
12-31-2017, 11:30 AM
I'm surprised they didn't just sleeve it - I recall the shell was fairly thick if they were to bore it out.

Otherwise, there's just enough material to just thread it Italian.

Cicli
12-31-2017, 11:33 AM
Well, four pages and I an still glad I jave a threaded bottom bracket on everything. Even if this Roubaix is lower end.

Mark McM
12-31-2017, 11:57 AM
I'm surprised they didn't just sleeve it - I recall the shell was fairly thick if they were to bore it out.

Otherwise, there's just enough material to just thread it Italian.

Merlin pressed in BBs used cartridge bearings with a 30mm OD. The OD of the shell wasn't much bigger than the 1.37" (34.8mm) ISO thread diameter, so there wasn't enough metal to ream out the BB and cut threads. On the plus side, the small original BB shell meant that the frame tubes had a little extra length, so they could be cut and mitered for the larger threaded shell.

Kontact
12-31-2017, 12:19 PM
Merlin pressed in BBs used cartridge bearings with a 30mm OD. The OD of the shell wasn't much bigger than the 1.37" (34.8mm) ISO thread diameter, so there wasn't enough metal to ream out the BB and cut threads. On the plus side, the small original BB shell meant that the frame tubes had a little extra length, so they could be cut and mitered for the larger threaded shell.

I just had a brain freeze - I was thinking Klein, not Merlin. Yeah, the Merlin's where too small AND thin walled to screw with.