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Mzilliox
12-22-2017, 03:14 PM
Ive been researching this all morning and not finding much...
is SRAM the only big name all in on 1x11?

Ive got a Potenza Mid reach RD and the 11-32 cassette.
Has anyone run the Potenza with a wider range cassette?

Im thinking of doing a 1x11 with 44 or 46 front and wide range rear on a new adventure/allroad build. Its either that or run a Compact 2x11 Campagnolo setup, but i like the idea of no FD! My jumpy riding style doesn't need the tight spacing of a 12-25. i just spin faster or slower.

I strongly prefer the hood shape and shifting feel of Campagnolo shifters, but if the logistics for Campagnolo aren't any good, ill look into going with Force 1x11, or just keep my life simple and stick with the tried and true 2x11.

Any real world experience with campagnolo 1x11? or Force 1x11 for that matter?

thanks

Matt

ptourkin
12-22-2017, 03:25 PM
None with Campy but Force 1X is the standard right now. If you're doing adventure/gravel whatever, the clutch RD is a good feature. It just works.

RobJ
12-22-2017, 10:47 PM
I'm in the very same boat and have been investigating. The Roadlink works with Campy but you give up the clutched RD as mentioned above. The SRAM 1x stuff works nice but I prefer the ergonomics of Campy.


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fogrider
12-22-2017, 10:48 PM
I'm building a gravel/cross bike and went with Shimano for 1x. I really wanted electronic shifting and hydro brakes, and the levers are now the same size as cable levers. I'm really concerned that with much I'm going to ride the bike on the road to get to the trail, I might want a compact 2x, well see.

Mzilliox
12-22-2017, 11:13 PM
I'm in the very same boat and have been investigating. The Roadlink works with Campy but you give up the clutched RD as mentioned above. The SRAM 1x stuff works nice but I prefer the ergonomics of Campy.


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glad im not being too much of an idiot wanting to see if this is possible. but to be fair i have not tried any of the sram stuff that has come out in the last 3-4 years or newer, maybe things have changed?

i do like the idea of the clutched RD, wide range rear, with single front simplicity...
but I may just go 50-34 and 11-32 with Potenza Mid RD and call it good:hello:

sales guy
12-22-2017, 11:44 PM
They aren't planning on it. I asked them about it on Sunday. The main part of it is the patents. They really don't like having to pay other people. They paid for the CenterLock rotor patent to Shimano cause Mr Campagnolo was pissed about the noise from some 6 bolt rotors. So they ponied up.

mistermo
12-23-2017, 12:12 AM
A couple years ago, I did a few cross races on a 1X 10s Campy equipped Ibis Hakkalugi. No problems with a chain guide up front and a Record 10s medium cage in the back.

d_douglas
12-23-2017, 02:09 AM
I have 1x10 on my commuter with a NW chainring - works great! I don’t think 1x11 would be any different.

The question is the gear range and mine is only 38t x 12-29, so likely not wide enough for ya. ?

foo_fighter
12-23-2017, 02:55 AM
Would a Jtek shiftmate work?

beeatnik
12-23-2017, 03:14 AM
I've ridden 3 bikas with Force 1x. I'm not 75 and I still have a lot of dexterity and hand eye coordination/fine motor function. On all three bikes I was not able to properly shift from the first cog to the 2nd (always jumps to the 3rd), whether going from an 11 to a whatever or a 10 to a whatever. So, I think SRAMz should call it Force 9.5 1x. Because you definitely lose one "speed" when shifting up the cassette.

Bentley
12-23-2017, 06:33 AM
I've ridden 3 bikas with Force 1x. I'm not 75 and I still have a lot of dexterity and hand eye coordination/fine motor function. On all three bikes I was not able to properly shift from the first cog to the 2nd (always jumps to the 3rd), whether going from an 11 to a whatever or a 10 to a whatever. So, I think SRAMz should call it Force 9.5 1x. Because you definitely lose one "speed" when shifting up the cassette.

I have SRAM 1x on 3 bikes, 2 have the clutch derailleur and 1 does not. Not sure why you are experiencing 9.5 gears, but I have never had that experience. Clutch RD is clearly the best way to go.

oldpotatoe
12-23-2017, 07:20 AM
I'm in the very same boat and have been investigating. The Roadlink works with Campy but you give up the clutched RD as mentioned above. The SRAM 1x stuff works nice but I prefer the ergonomics of Campy.


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Get a N-W chainring and call it good..the clutch is nice but a N-W CR will keep the chain in place.

NHAero
12-23-2017, 08:31 AM
I just finished a 1x11 conversion of my CAAD10 last night. It's sloppy out so no test ride yet. I used the HG800 Ultegra 11-34 cassette and a 42 Race Face NW chainring, with the RD 8000 GS Ultegra derailleur, and an Ultegra ST6800 shifter. Shifts great on the stand :) Dropped about 1/2 pound off the bike, too.

ahumblecycler
12-23-2017, 09:06 AM
Get a N-W chainring and call it good..the clutch is nice but a N-W CR will keep the chain in place.

This plus correct chain length.

gfk_velo
12-23-2017, 09:26 AM
They aren't planning on it. I asked them about it on Sunday. The main part of it is the patents. They really don't like having to pay other people. They paid for the CenterLock rotor patent to Shimano cause Mr Campagnolo was pissed about the noise from some 6 bolt rotors. So they ponied up.

Noise from some six-bolt rotors was a factor but rather bigger on their horizon was that a very high proportion of the AM forks in the market from companies like Columbus don't give enough clearance for the bolt-heads of a six-bolt.

Because the strength of Campagnolo is mainly in the AM, they need to look at that type of aspect very closely.

They also look at compatibility and overall market trend and if that outweighs engineering and brand differentiation considerations, then like any comapny, they will make a commercial decision.

AngryScientist
12-23-2017, 09:36 AM
i ran a bike with single ring 38T up front, 11-42 out back. potenza mid cage RD with roadlink. campy shifters.

the only issue was in the two smallest cogs. barely enough chain tension to keep the chain slap down when things got bouncy. worksed great on the bigger cogs.

https://instagram.fewr1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/17495353_413870558968712_8426251429844353024_n.jpg

https://instagram.fewr1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/17662658_386703238377772_1810493405784965120_n.jpg

gfk_velo
12-23-2017, 09:39 AM
Ive been researching this all morning and not finding much...
is SRAM the only big name all in on 1x11?

Ive got a Potenza Mid reach RD and the 11-32 cassette.
Has anyone run the Potenza with a wider range cassette?

Im thinking of doing a 1x11 with 44 or 46 front and wide range rear on a new adventure/allroad build. Its either that or run a Compact 2x11 Campagnolo setup, but i like the idea of no FD! My jumpy riding style doesn't need the tight spacing of a 12-25. i just spin faster or slower.

I strongly prefer the hood shape and shifting feel of Campagnolo shifters, but if the logistics for Campagnolo aren't any good, ill look into going with Force 1x11, or just keep my life simple and stick with the tried and true 2x11.

Any real world experience with campagnolo 1x11? or Force 1x11 for that matter?

thanks

Matt

We run 1 x 11 Campagnolo with a conventional chainring on our racing tandem, no problem. We have in the past simply had a limit-screw-fixed-position FD to reduce the possibility of the chain unshipping. I've just finished machining a lighter and more efficient piece to do the same job on a new tandem we are just building.

Plenty of TT bikes ran 1x systems in the 1970s and 80s on the UK scene - the difference was that we were all running tight blocks / cassettes on fairly smooth road surfaces.

Having said that, chain bounce is pretty extreme on the pave and cassettes are probably wider ration now than they have ever been ... and we don't appear to see a lot of problems with FDs having to double up as anti-chain drop devices.

The engineering challenge is partly around the width of the cassette in combination with the required felxibility of the chain - although in fact, that's not as much of an issue as you might think - consider that the chain on a 2x big-to-big or small-to-small is actually passing through a bigger angle than it will on a 1x system.

It may be worth mentioning that in a correctly set-up Campagnolo system, the FD does not need to be trimmed at any point across the cassette so by implication, it's actually only acting as an anti chain-drop tool in relatively exceptional circumstances - it doesn't touch the chain the rest of the time. Shimano systems have a FD whose position needs to be trimmed as the user tracks across the cassette on the big chainring, so that may not be quite so true in their case - I don't know, I haven't tried it.

It's probably also worth saying that the circumstances that work in the cases where we have run a single ring system may not be the same as yours ...

Anecdotally, though, a thick-thin ring takes care of managing the chain-drop risk pretty well.

The other big challenge is the big (3 or 4T, perhaps) steps between sprocket sizes especially in the middle and towards the big end of the cassette, as this affects how the RD needs to track the cassette to try and hold the top jockey close to the profile of the cassette. If there is too much gap, shifting can become slow. Campagnolo Embrace actaully goes some way towards addessing that.

NHAero
12-23-2017, 10:12 AM
FWIW - I converted my Litespeed Unicoi to a dropbar 1x10 earlier this year. Used a Sunrace 11-40 and a Wolftooth NW 40T chainring. Regular, non-clutch XT RD. Riding down a not particularly bumpy dirt road shortly after finishing the build, and under power, the chain jumped the chainring and did some gouging of the crankarm. It now wears a chain keeper. I didn't think I'd need that on the CAAD10 1x11 I just finished, because I don't see riding that bike on bumpy surfaces, but I'd be open to being told differently.

sandyrs
12-23-2017, 11:43 AM
Not campy but I ran an ultegra / roadlink / narrow-wide / 11-40 setup for a year or so on all sorts of terrain from roads to mtb trails. I didn’t drop a chain once. I have Rival 1 now and it’s nice not to have chain slap but from a functional standpoint there’s no reason Campy 1x wouldn’t work. You could always add a Wolftooth chain guide and some sort of rubberized chainstay guard for security and silence.

oldpotatoe
12-23-2017, 11:45 AM
i ran a bike with single ring 38T up front, 11-42 out back. potenza mid cage RD with roadlink. campy shifters.

the only issue was in the two smallest cogs. barely enough chain tension to keep the chain slap down when things got bouncy. worksed great on the bigger cogs.

https://instagram.fewr1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/17495353_413870558968712_8426251429844353024_n.jpg



I check rear der cage extension in lowest gear...you 'may' be able to take a link(s?) out...

AngryScientist
12-23-2017, 12:04 PM
I check rear der cage extension in lowest gear...you 'may' be able to take a link(s?) out...

nope. travel absolutely maxed out in that big 'ol 42. it worked OK though, even in the smallest cogger.

beeatnik
12-23-2017, 06:09 PM
I have SRAM 1x on 3 bikes, 2 have the clutch derailleur and 1 does not. Not sure why you are experiencing 9.5 gears, but I have never had that experience. Clutch RD is clearly the best way to go.

They just don't shift cleanly and easily from the 1st cog to the 2nd. 10 out of 10x, when I shift from the smallest cog, I end up on the 3rd. It's not shift technique as all the other shifts are precise and crisp. Otherwise, I dig the 1x. The jumps aren't as insane as I expected.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/38264453785_537af4a95c_o.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4553/38788639712_0fdc1dbff5_h.jpg

chiasticon
12-23-2017, 06:22 PM
as mentioned, if you don't wanna go Sram, you can also do Shimano/clutch RD with some minor mods or Campy/non-clutch RD. either way, use a narrow/wide chainring. if you go the Campy route, just cover your chainstay to cut down on chain slap.

I like the Sram 1x stuff a lot and moved to it this past cx season (mixture of Force and Rival) after too many chain drops (not because of the group, but because I just crashed too friggin' much). the simplicity of the system when racing is awesome; it's also faster/easier to clean up/tune the bike, which you do a lot with a cx/gravel bike. if you're put off by Sram, I get it, but the one plus here is that arguably the most annoying Sram part - the front derailleur - won't be used.

DRietz
12-24-2017, 01:45 PM
They just don't shift cleanly and easily from the 1st cog to the 2nd. 10 out of 10x, when I shift from the smallest cog, I end up on the 3rd. It's not shift technique as all the other shifts are precise and crisp. Otherwise, I dig the 1x. The jumps aren't as insane as I expected.

img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/38264453785_537af4a95c_o.jpg[/img]

img]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4553/38788639712_0fdc1dbff5_h.jpg[/img]

This, 100%, is a set up issue. Coming from a mechanic who has set up countless SRAM 1x groups that shift flawlessly.

Has nothing to do with SRAM, which, Matt, has actually come a long way recently in terms of feel IMO. Still some durability issues, but actually less so the more you get into hydraulic/clutched systems.

Bentley
12-24-2017, 01:54 PM
They just don't shift cleanly and easily from the 1st cog to the 2nd. 10 out of 10x, when I shift from the smallest cog, I end up on the 3rd. It's not shift technique as all the other shifts are precise and crisp. Otherwise, I dig the 1x. The jumps aren't as insane as I expected.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/38264453785_537af4a95c_o.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4553/38788639712_0fdc1dbff5_h.jpg

I have a Force Wifli RD on one bike with a chain catcher, I note that while it’s not a problem it’s a Road bike and the chain is not as taught as the Clutch RD, curious if a “loose” chain might contribute to sloppier shifting?

Mzilliox
12-24-2017, 02:01 PM
This, 100%, is a set up issue. Coming from a mechanic who has set up countless SRAM 1x groups that shift flawlessly.

Has nothing to do with SRAM, which, Matt, has actually come a long way recently in terms of feel IMO. Still some durability issues, but actually less so the more you get into hydraulic/clutched systems.

Good info. Im not actually turned off by SRAM for this application. My main issue is that i happen to have 2 sets of chorus groups hanging out and a potenza mid cage RD. I am adding (maybe 2 bikes, certainly 1) to the stable this winter, so may have the ability to do a 1x adventure build for fun. looks like if i do, it will be SRAM. Just have to decide which wheelset to invest in the rear driver for the big 10-42 cassettes and which front ring would suit my riding best.

i don't (in theory) mind big jumps, im not a cadence focused kinda guy anyway.

beeatnik
12-24-2017, 02:52 PM
This, 100%, is a set up issue. Coming from a mechanic who has set up countless SRAM 1x groups that shift flawlessly.

Has nothing to do with SRAM, which, Matt, has actually come a long way recently in terms of feel IMO. Still some durability issues, but actually less so the more you get into hydraulic/clutched systems.

Maybe most cats who ride these set ups don't stay in the 1st two sprockets. In any case, the bikes were built up by different professional mechanics. I don't doubt there's a way to get things perfectly dialed in; it's just not as easy for others as it is for you. Ironically, SRAM has improved to the point where as Campy, people will always blame the mechanic before the system (I had a ton of issues with 2015 Revolution when it first debuted).

NHAero
12-24-2017, 04:50 PM
Test ride today, all works smoothly!

MaraudingWalrus
12-29-2017, 10:02 AM
Seems to be solved, but I ran 1x with Record 11s recently, it worked near flawlessly - even with a Q ring. I dropped the chain once, hitting a bump, while riding up a climb, while shifting under load, so I'll call that my fault not its.

I had neither wide-narrow chainring or a chain guide installed. Either one of those would have made it work even more flawlessly.



Here it is (https://i.imgur.com/OkzLMyw.jpg)