2018, $9500 and "race ready"(?)....

[oldpotatoe]

sits right at the top end of the women's performance road range

Nearly $10k, 'race ready' yet...I would have thought Spec-Ed would be all in with_____.


(special prize if you can finish the sentence)...

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/women/gear/article/specialized-womens-s-works-tarmac-51420/

[Cicli]

Nearly $10k, 'race ready' yet...I would have thought Spec-Ed would be all in with tubulars.


(special prize if you can finish the sentence)...

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/women/gear/article/specialized-womens-s-works-tarmac-51420/

? I dunno?

[fiamme red]

Nearly $10k, 'race ready' yet...I would have thought Spec-Ed would be all in with_____.


(special prize if you can finish the sentence)...

http://www.bikeradar.com/us/women/gear/article/specialized-womens-s-works-tarmac-51420/Disc brakes.

https://cdnmos-bikeradar.global.ssl.fastly.net/images/news/2017/12/13/spesh--8-of-9--copy-1513338318034-pyo86iz3jcs9-630-80.jpg

[Cicli]

Disc brakes.

https://cdnmos-bikeradar.global.ssl.fastly.net/images/news/2017/12/13/spesh--8-of-9--copy-1513338318034-pyo86iz3jcs9-630-80.jpg

Right, discs dont even hit my radar as necessary. You are right though.

[oldpotatoe]

Disc brakes.

https://cdnmos-bikeradar.global.ssl.fastly.net/images/news/2017/12/13/spesh--8-of-9--copy-1513338318034-pyo86iz3jcs9-630-80.jpg

We have a winner!! Send me your address for a prize!!

[Burnette]

As a pointed out to me by a member on another forums, and he was right, what Euro dopers use for racing won't deter the purchase of disc brake bikes.

As for bike makers, they will make ads with whatever verbiage they think the consumer will swallow, hence the 2% stiffer than last year's model.

This fight for which gets to use the "race" moniker, rim or disc, is a silly fight. They are equipment and both with merits. The "race" category distinction between the two are only alive in ones head.

[giordana93]

re: disc brakes.... when potential buyer comes along and does the inevitable jerk and snatch (i.e. picks bike up) they will balk that such an expensive bike (if it had disc brakes) feels so heavy. sad but true. "I want the lightest bike in the world for that kind of money" never mind that means carbon clinchers. at least Specialized didn't put the brake under the chainstays on this one

[soulspinner]

Hate the look of the seatstays.........

[tv_vt]

Ah, finally a nice looking bike. Can't say why, but I'm immediately turned off when I see discs on a road bike. There are so few new models that interest me at all anymore.

[bitpuddle]

Discs are fine, but I can’t get used to those dropped seatstays. The Tarmac used to be one of the best-looking frames.

[soulspinner]

discs are fine, but i can’t get used to those dropped seatstays. The tarmac used to be one of the best-looking frames.

+1

[rnhood]

+1

+2. On the good side however, it's still one of the very best carbon bikes on the market. Just doesn't look quite as good as it used to.

[choke]

$9500 :eek:

That "article" is little more than a press release...

[avalonracing]

Discs are fine, but I can’t get used to those dropped seatstays. The Tarmac used to be one of the best-looking frames.

Initially, we all talked about how much we hated sloping top tubes. Now if you show up to a group ride with a level top tube people ask you about your retro bike.

[Burnette]

$9500 :eek:

That "article" is little more than a press release...

I said much the same, it's an ad. And a muddled one at that.

[Steve in SLO]

Nearly $10k, 'race ready' yet...I would have thought Spec-Ed would be all in with motor assist.
.

[chiasticon]

That "article" is little more than a press release...
I said much the same, it's an ad. And a muddled one at that.well... yeah! this is Bike Radar. 90% of what they post are press releases and "ten best new things this week." nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. in fact, that's why I like them.

[Dave B]

It disheartens me that the Big brand have begun charging what they do for their wares. custom builders, sure I get that, but mass produced bikes where the customer pays for the pro sponsorship losses irritates the be-jesus out of me.

$9K to $12K for an off the rack seems like a crap ton of money for something produced in super high numbers.

I would/could never afford something like that new. It just sickens me that normal people cannot afford the companies best options.

[merckx]

It disheartens me that the Big brand have begun charging what they do for their wares. custom builders, sure I get that, but mass produced bikes where the customer pays for the pro sponsorship losses irritates the be-jesus out of me.

$9K to $12K for an off the rack seems like a crap ton of money for something produced in super high numbers.

I would/could never afford something like that new. It just sickens me that normal people cannot afford the companies best options.

I agree. Also, can you imagine laying down a $10,000 machine in the midst of a lower category crit., or any stack for that matter?

[tommyrod74]

It disheartens me that the Big brand have begun charging what they do for their wares. custom builders, sure I get that, but mass produced bikes where the customer pays for the pro sponsorship losses irritates the be-jesus out of me.

$9K to $12K for an off the rack seems like a crap ton of money for something produced in super high numbers.

I would/could never afford something like that new. It just sickens me that normal people cannot afford the companies best options.

When I worked at a shop in grad school (~10 years ago) a Dura-Ace bike ran ~$2000-2500, depending on frame cost.

We've seen a TON of small innovations in the meantime that have pushed frame and component technology forward - but it has been, IMHO, marginal at best in terms of performance improvement at a massive cost increase.

I am by no means a Luddite. I just regret that the industry has moved the top-end to the $10k mark, with all the MASSIVE depreciation associated with luxury goods (can't sell that $10k rig for $5k 6 months after purchase).

The value in new bikes just isn't there. Everything I've bought in the past 3 years has been on the secondary market, for pennies on the dollar. Often basically unused.

I would never race a bike that cost anywhere near $10k, regardless of my personal finances.

[GonaSovereign]

1. I'm happy they're devoting resources to women's race bikes. A big step up from mid-tier bikes with some pink paint and a randomly generated name that could fit on a facial cleanser
2. Like all humans, female bodies vary, so a gender-specific design is somewhat legit and somewhat marketing
3. It's a race bike, so disc brakes need not apply (yet)
4. Tires look nice.

[AngryScientist]

all this hand wringing is silly. specialized and every big box bike company that wants to stay in business has to make a high end, high $$ bike for people who have money to spend on it.

it's not as if the other end doesnt exist. specialized lists the Allez Elite on their site. $1200 bucks retail (so you can get them cheaper...) for a perfectly race worthy 105 equipped bike. no one HAS to buy the 10k dollar bike.

want to race on a budget - nothing keeping you from being competitive on an affordable bike.



https://dbyvw4eroffpi.cloudfront.net/cms/specialized-allez-elite-road-bike-2018.jpg

[katematt]

_______ Allez recall.

[Dave B]

all this hand wringing is silly. specialized and every big box bike company that wants to stay in business has to make a high end, high $$ bike for people who have money to spend on it.

it's not as if the other end doesnt exist. specialized lists the Allez Elite on their site. $1200 bucks retail (so you can get them cheaper...) for a perfectly race worthy 105 equipped bike. no one HAS to buy the 10k dollar bike.

want to race on a budget - nothing keeping you from being competitive on an affordable bike.



https://dbyvw4eroffpi.cloudfront.net/cms/specialized-allez-elite-road-bike-2018.jpg

oh come on, of course there are cheaper and good cheap options, but when Serotta had the $12K+ Meivici where they flew you in for the weekend, toured the facility, gave you a handy, and sent you on your way, sure I get paying for exclusivity and experience.


You go to a shop order a $9K+ bike, no matter who you are you get a pat on the back and maybe a free water bottle.

This money for bikes with their own components ie. Spec and Trek where you get little choice of how you want it set up is piss poor. Would they be charging all of this money if they didn't sponsor racers and teams at the elite level? They are mass produced frames selling more top end dollars bikes then most hand made bike (actually worth most of that money) companies sell in a year.

I call bs on their agenda and pricing their wares at the absolutely very top end is a huge middle finger for those of us who actually used to be able to buy top end stuff out of the store.



now on a completely alternative note, the fact that Specialized made a woman's designed frame for top level racers, good for them. Women get such a ****ty deal in sports it is nice to see high end (regardless of the stupid prices) options. Again great for women to have the best, but the best costing 5 figures simply is outlandish. When women racers make as much money as men, sure this makes sense...but we have not hit that equality yet.

[MattTuck]

Race what you can replace... hey, even the 1% deserve a nice bike they wreck and not get too torn up about.

But more seriously, having a bike like this in the line-up makes a $2,500 bike seem reasonable (relativism). In general though, I'd rather do business with Trek or Cannondale than Specialized.

[saab2000]

I really like the current Tarmac. The matte black and the direct mount brakes look great to my eyes. I'd love one.

[54ny77]

the beauty of these crazy expensive off the shelf bikes is they depreciate faster than a cadillac, and can be bought for a relative song. only problem is you gotta know someone or know someone who knows someone who's selling it. :banana:

[Imaking20]

The disc version is coming...

I love the look of the new frame! And Spesh finally built a frame under a kilo! :p

[Ken Robb]

There are lots of examples of expensive luxury items that people pay extra to own when much cheaper examples would function just as well. Think about Rolex vs. Seiko. There must be similar emotional rewards for some folks who buy $9500 bikes compared to other non-essential luxury items.

I wonder what it costs a bike shop to stock $9500 bikes. Does the manufacturer require minimum stock on hand? Do they offer "free" flooring on top-of-the-line bikes? Can a shop sell enough $9500 bikes to offset the flooring expense to display them?

[bironi]

So why is the women's version 500 buck less?

https://www.specialized.com/us/en/new-tarmac

[Mikej]

There is a huge amount of overhead that larger bike manufacturers deal with vs. a 1-3 or 4 or 5 man custom shop. Just imagine the R&D, engineering, manufacturing, materials sourcing, etc. etc. it takes to run a large bike manufacturing company. I must say, have you ridden the new Spec? They ride pretty frickin nice...

[FlashUNC]

This isn't intended as a knock on any custom carbon builder out there, but $9,500 is a comparative bargain for that level of kit on a top of the line carbon frame. You'd be hard pressed to get out the door at, say, Calfee for that amount with that same kind of build spec. Heck, it'd probably be in the $12k range.

Is it expensive? Undoubtedly, but there are some elements of economies of scale at play here that do make it a bit more affordable than going to a smaller outfit.

The mistake is comparing it to a $1500 Allez with 105.

[chiasticon]

This isn't intended as a knock on any custom carbon builder out there, but $9,500 is a comparative bargain for that level of kit on a top of the line carbon frame. You'd be hard pressed to get out the door at, say, Calfee for that amount with that same kind of build spec. Heck, it'd probably be in the $12k range.

Is it expensive? Undoubtedly, but there are some elements of economies of scale at play here that do make it a bit more affordable than going to a smaller outfit.

The mistake is comparing it to a $1500 Allez with 105.agreed with all this. want an Argonaut for $9500? you'll be riding 105 and ksyriums.

the S-Works Tarmac is a top of the line machine all around, built for racing, with a price tag to match. now, how many people do I know that race on bikes valued anywhere near that? zero. how many people do I know that own bikes like that but do not race them? several.

[tommyrod74]

all this hand wringing is silly. specialized and every big box bike company that wants to stay in business has to make a high end, high $$ bike for people who have money to spend on it.

it's not as if the other end doesnt exist. specialized lists the Allez Elite on their site. $1200 bucks retail (so you can get them cheaper...) for a perfectly race worthy 105 equipped bike. no one HAS to buy the 10k dollar bike.

want to race on a budget - nothing keeping you from being competitive on an affordable bike.



https://dbyvw4eroffpi.cloudfront.net/cms/specialized-allez-elite-road-bike-2018.jpg

It's not silly, it's simply a differing opinion than yours. No one's arguing that it's not possible (easy) to find perfectly good (great) race bikes for well under $2k. Especially used.

The point (at least mine) was that there's been a decidedly non-marginal price increase in recent years for production-level, top-end bikes, and that, while improving the breed, the improvements are usually quite marginal.

I'm talking 700g frames in an era where even a 1500g frame can be built well below the UCI-legal weight limit fairly easily.

I think the Seiko/Rolex argument is off-base for a few reasons, not the least of which is that no one (with any sense) pretends a Rolex is as accurate as a quartz Timex, much less a Seiko. You're paying more for craftsmanship and exclusivity, and a watch isn't exactly a performance item - it has one job to do, and the cheapest ones actually do this job better than the luxury ones.

I'm simply wondering aloud if this sort of thing is good for the long-term health of the industry and the sport. Maybe it is, I dunno.

I do know that it's weird to feel like I'm basically too poor to buy a new bike at the Dura-Ace level anymore - and my household income isn't substandard by any reasonable measure.

[54ny77]

It's great for those of us who buy used and who have patience to look around.

:banana:

For newer stuff, 1/3 retail seems to be the average going rate.

Buddy of mine just picked up a top of line Trek for about that. Quite the bike. And even crazier to think it cost somewhere in the $13k or so range. Sales tax at that level adds up, depending on the state.



I'm simply wondering aloud if this sort of thing is good for the long-term health of the industry and the sport. Maybe it is, I dunno.

I do know that it's weird to feel like I'm basically too poor to buy a new bike at the Dura-Ace level anymore - and my household income isn't substandard by any reasonable measure.

[Burnette]

well... yeah! this is Bike Radar. 90% of what they post are press releases and "ten best new things this week." nothing wrong with that, in my opinion. in fact, that's why I like them.

Yes, we're on the same page, most of us know Bikeradar is advert mostly but like you I agree there is value in having a site dedicated to showing the latest stuff.

The point of my post was that some people don't know that about that site and try use bike brand ad hyperbole from that site as ill conceived fodder to make an off balanced point.

[AngryScientist]

It's not silly, it's simply a differing opinion than yours.

just for the record, i didnt say your opinion was silly, just the hand wringing. it's certainly an interesting discussion to have, and appropriate for a bike forum, but it's not something to get upset about.

my comment was aimed more at the folks who seem to find it personally insulting that specialized's top tier bike is more expensive than they can afford. it's a business decision on what to make and where to price top end models. if the price is too high, and those models don't sell, they will adjust.

[ultraman6970]

Racing bikes have to be reliable and you can get reliable using low end big time, specially if you are sponsoring yourself. THe other detail, if the rider is good will win races in anything, including a darn steel 7 speed bike from the 80s w/o any problems.

I had 10 grands to spend in a racing bike (if i was racing obviously) I would buy like 4 or 5 used high end bikes just to have them there because of the accidents, In one accident you can kill a bike completely.

So yeah, race ready.... if you have a pro team that is giving you the stuff :P

[tommyrod74]

It's great for those of us who buy used and who have patience to look around.

:banana:

For newer stuff, 1/3 retail seems to be the average going rate.

Buddy of mine just picked up a top of line Trek for about that. Quite the bike. And even crazier to think it cost somewhere in the $13k or so range. Sales tax at that level adds up, depending on the state.

I'm with you - I have maybe $3000 total (including race wheels) in 2 Ultegra 6800 race bikes that I built with lightly used parts. It's a great time to buy used. Just musing on what a soft secondary market might mean re: the overall health of the marketplace.

[tommyrod74]

my comment was aimed more at the folks who seem to find it personally insulting that specialized's top tier bike is more expensive than they can afford. it's a business decision on what to make and where to price top end models. if the price is too high, and those models don't sell, they will adjust.

You gotta admit, in the span of roughly 10 years we've gone from a place where the cost of a Dura-Ace level bike shocked non-cyclists to a place where the price surprises even seasoned cyclists. It's been a huge jump.

[pdmtong]

This isn't intended as a knock on any custom carbon builder out there, but $9,500 is a comparative bargain for that level of kit on a top of the line carbon frame. You'd be hard pressed to get out the door at, say, Calfee for that amount with that same kind of build spec. Heck, it'd probably be in the $12k range.

Is it expensive? Undoubtedly, but there are some elements of economies of scale at play here that do make it a bit more affordable than going to a smaller outfit.

The mistake is comparing it to a $1500 Allez with 105.

agree with this^

get me a SL6 at EP pricing...I would be pretty happy.

It's not the $10k road bikes that shocked me. It's when mtb's went over $10k that shocked me.

[oldpotatoe]

Yikes, after 40 some posts and why I posted it lost back in 23 or 24 or so...high end, race ready ROAD bike and no discs? No thru-axles? I think it's illegal, isn't it?:)

$9500 doesn't bother me..when in the shop, 4 years ago, my average bike sale was about $6500..average...high almost to $15k...

[chiasticon]

the funny part about all of this is that when they announce the price, they're also saying "look what we give away to people, free!" they give tons of these machines away to their sponsored teams, who then totally destroy them day in-day out and then get brand new ones. why does it cost so much? you know it doesn't cost that much to make. it costs that much because they're giving them away to people who aren't you.

[AngryScientist]

Yikes, after 40 some posts and why I posted it lost back in 23 or 24 or so...high end, race ready ROAD bike and no discs? No thru-axles? I think it's illegal, isn't it?:)

you just dont get it, do you? havent you ever seen a road race? you dont win races by BRAKING better, the idea is to get to the finish faster. :banana:

[tommyrod74]

agree with this^

get me a SL6 at EP pricing...I would be pretty happy.

It's not the $10k road bikes that shocked me. It's when mtb's went over $10k that shocked me.

Both shock me, but less so the MTB prices. There's just more technology in a top-end MTB than a road bike.

There's also a bigger performance gap between top- and mid-range bikes on the MTB side.

[pdmtong]

Both shock me, but less so the MTB prices. There's just more technology in a top-end MTB than a road bike.



There's also a bigger performance gap between top- and mid-range bikes on the MTB side.



It was more the absolute price than the rationalization of that price. I agree with your comment that a high dollar mtb actually makes more sense given the suspension design and components: fork - rear - post. Plus the hydro brakes

[gemship]

Hey you all must know that Specialized makes a full suspension electric bike. I believe it retails at around 9k. Anybody care to comment on it? It looks all the business and it has a motor!