Help me save a crankset

[ariw]

When I disassembled my c40, I (regretfully) neglected to remove the bearings from the fulcrum ut cranks for a while, and now I have this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171217/27a3230872c46c44593ff8da964305dd.jpg

I used the park campy bearing puller tool, and the bearing assembly just came apart. Drive side came off just fine, but the outside race is stuck on the nds. I drizzled some lube on it in hopes of loosening it, but haven't attacked it again yet. Ideas?

Tia,
Ari

[AngryScientist]

i think a fork crown race puller might be the ticket for this job. application of some heat on that outer race might also help.

[oldpotatoe]

I use a modified gear puller..I think anything with sharper 'feet', that get under the remnants of the bearing, would work. I think the suggestion of a FCR puller, like the park one, is a good idea also. You could also use a Dremel to cut into the remnants also but gotta be really careful to not score the BB spindle.

[ultraman6970]

If i got this right, you got the ID ring of the bearing stuck in there??? Then just cut it using a dremel. The metal is not thick just cut a slit and that thing will pop out right out for sure, if not just use the slit to pry the thing out with a small flat screwdriver.

[ariw]

Was trying to avoid the dremel route, but the crown race puller and heat are a good idea to try first. The Mrs. wasn't too excited when a Cervelo S2 showed up a week after the C40 left, but I couldn't resist the incycle sale. Now I just need to use as many parts laying around that I can, always liked these cranks and with new bearings, they should go well with an Athena 11 drivetrain.

[ultraman6970]

What did you do with that master? it sold?

Dremel will be quicker than going to the store, well if you have a dremel moving around.

The other option is another dremel tool, it can cut straight. A vibrating blade tool thing that can cut straight.

[Kontact]

Careful with the heat - carbon fiber is just reinforced plastic.

If I were to Dremel, it would be with a sanding drum, not a cutting disk.

[cmbicycles]

It probably won't hold tight enough, but try putting the park puller in the bearing race grooves, or if you have a bench vise you can try squeezing the puller fingers under the remaining bearing race edges and pulling off that way.

Another option is to use a bench vise to hold the bearing race then use the pedal & crank to rotate back and forth & pull up. Vise needs to have some teeth and you don't want to clamp too hard as you will be working against yourself. Like Kontact said above, I would exercise caution with heat, likely the spindle and carbon would expand more readily under heat than the hardened steel bearing race, and the race sits pretty close to the carbon.

[dddd]

I was thinking sacrifice a woodworking chisel, to get it started coming off.

Even an old screwdriver could be sharpened to the same chisel-point effect, then modified to be more blunt as the race moves away from the arm.

Lastly I would use my Dremel with the green stone wheel, about 1" dimeter and 1/8" thick. I find these on Ebay and use them for various metal-grinding applications as I can get a lot of use out of one wheel and they tend not to break.

Torch heating could work, it's how I quickly removed a rusted-on race on my Isuzu's front axle, but here you would need to make a nicely-fitted heat shield first, to protect the composite.

[Kontact]

If you want to try driving in a wedge, I would use something softer, like a cheap screwdriver ground down. A chisel will very easily notch the spindle, causing it to break off during pedaling.

I would grind the screwdriver at a 45° angle and tap it in a few places around the circumference with a mallet. It will either easily work, or it won't and should be abandoned.

Again, don't use a chisel.

[Kontact]

Torch heating could work, it's how I quickly removed a rusted-on race on my Isuzu's front axle, but here you would need to make a nicely-fitted heat shield first, to protect the composite.

You can't shield the composite from convection. The spindle is embedded it the composite. I wouldn't go higher than boiling temp.

[dddd]

You can't shield the composite from convection. The spindle is embedded it the composite. I wouldn't go higher than boiling temp.

When I removed the inner race from the Isuzu, I couldn't believe how quickly that the race let go of the axle, popped right off before the axle got hot at all! Eight or nine seconds I would say, and it was much bigger than the OP's thin race.

Literally five seconds is what I would try using the tip of a blue flame from a standard propane torch. And if that didn't work I would check to see how warm that the spindle got before letting it fully cool (perhaps freeze it) and trying again. Of course the OP's spindle is hollow and will thus heat up faster, so why not pack it with ice first?

I would definitely have a go with simple wedging force as my first attempt, this being instructed by many experiences with removal of fork crown races similarly being of the steel on steel variety.

[Kontact]

When I removed the inner race from the Isuzu, I couldn't believe how quickly that the race let go of the axle, popped right off before the axle got hot at all!

Literally five seconds is what I would try using the tip of a blue flame from a standard propane torch. And if that didn't work I would check to see how warm that the spindle got before letting it fully cool (perhaps freeze it) and trying again. Of course the OP's spindle is hollow and will thus heat up faster, so why not pack it with ice first?

I would definitely have a go with simple wedging force as my first attempt, this being instructed by many experiences with removal of fork crown races similarly being of the steel on steel variety.
Take a blob of cured epoxy and put the torch on it for just 2 seconds. That's what's happening to the carbon fiber matrix where it touches the metal 1mm away from the stuck race.


Please stop suggesting that it is safe to use a blowtorch on metal that is glued. It isn't because you can't control the heat convection or temperature.

[ariw]

Ordered a set of small cutting wheels for the Dremel, nothing i had would have worked for this. Will try to attack this later in the week. Not going to be able to work on this build until January anyways, we are leaving Saturday for 2 weeks. I was just looking through the parts box and realized that I had a lot of what I needed (surprise, surprise) to get the Cervelo built.

I have to agree with the others on the heat idea, near the carbon, it seems like a bad idea and hard to control.

-Ari

[dddd]

Take a blob of cured epoxy and put the torch on it for just 2 seconds. That's what's happening to the carbon fiber matrix where it touches the metal 1mm away from the stuck race.


Please stop suggesting that it is safe to use a blowtorch on metal that is glued. It isn't because you can't control the heat convection or temperature.

But I never said that any of these things "were safe", that is the responsibility of the user, based on their familiarity with use of a torch for example.

You certainly can control the heat going into the metal, as I said, by shielding, by limiting exposure time, by chilling, and adding ice inside of the spindle.

That's a lot of control, but I wouldn't do any of that after drinking, or before using the other methods (as I already mentioned).

Perhaps I should add a photo of my little collection of hand-made heat shields I have cut to do several other similar applications of heat? I sure wouldn't proceed without one in this case, but I could see that race coming off before much of anything else had time to occur, if the chisel were pre-loaded against the back of the race while holding the simple shield in place.

[Kontact]

But I never said that any of these things "were safe", that is the responsibility of the user, based on their familiarity with use of a torch for example.

You certainly can control the heat going into the metal, as I said, by shielding, by limiting exposure time, by chilling, and adding ice inside of the spindle.

That's a lot of control, but I wouldn't do any of that after drinking, or before using the other methods (as I already mentioned).

You can't shield one contiguous object from conduction when the part being heated is immediately adjacent to the part that would be damaged. You want to heat a part that is touching the carbon fiber.

Why suggest something that is unsafe? This is ridiculous. The OP isn't asking how to destroy his crank, but how to fix the problem without damage. And your suggestions are hitting it with a hardened chisel and holding a blowtorch on plastic.

Certainly, do whatever you want to your own stuff, but I hope I have made the problems with your suggestions clear enough that any sensible person would ignore you.

[dddd]

Funny how you seem to have issues with my posts today.

Please stop mis-quoting me. Has anyone mis-quoted you? If so, call them out on it, but don't mis-quote or deliberately mis-represent what I have said.

Because by now, you have done both. And don't pretend that the OP is a complete idiot.

[wildboar]

.

[Kontact]

Funny how you seem to have issues with my posts today.

Please stop mis-quoting me. Has anyone mis-quoted you? If so, call them out on it, but don't mis-quote or deliberately mis-represent what I have said.

Because by now, you have done both. And don't pretend that the OP is a complete idiot.

Where did I misquote you? I only have a problem with stuff that destroys things and hurts people. Geometry theories are only interesting, but you didn't explain yours enough to make sense to me.


Look, the problem with heat is best explained this way:

Take a block of wax and put a nail into it. Now immerse the block in ice water until only the nail is sticking up. Wax, like plastic, is a poor heat conductor. Now put a torch on the nail just above the wax for just long enough to make a serious temperature change in the nail.

Is the ice water going to keep the heat in the nail from melting the wax right where the nail goes in? No. Wax is a bad conductor, and the nail is a good conductor, so the heat will travel down the nail into the chilled wax and melt just the wax immediately touching the nail. It won't melt the whole block, but it will definitely affect the bond between metal and non-metal.


There is no way of controlling for that, except to use heat that is never above the melting point of non-metal. Which is a maybe 100° or so above boiling.

[dddd]

would it help chill the spindle using compressed air?

I wouldn't want to put that much heat into the spindle in the first place, since compressed air is going to be of very limited effectiveness unless there is a relatively large temperature drop from metal to air.
I wouldn't want to proceed to where the spindle itself got hot at all.

The spindle does have some good thickness that acts to resist rapid temperature increase, and water or ice would greatly increase that "thermal inertia" since liquid water has the highest "specific heat capacity" of any material on earth with ice adding latent heat of fusion to that!!

As for any concerns of the heated race damaging the epoxy, should it fail to pop off, it will lose it's modest heat to the thick spindle that it is pressed onto in very short order. I don't blame anyone for doubting me, but I've done this with a bigger race than this one and the speed of removal was pretty rapid.
The race isn't going to get very hot as long as it's still forcefully pressed onto the cooler spindle anyway, so it will simply come off or it won't during any judicious period of heating that would be worth attempting.
Cutting it off with a Dremel stone has it's own possible disadvantage related to scoring the spindle, but all things considered I did first advise using this method before resorting to heat.

As a bizarre side-note, my earliest recollection of ever being disciplined as a child was when my father discovered that, in his absence, I had absconded with his propane torch and proceeded to "test" it on just about every object about the house and yard. Some things it seems just never change.

[Kontact]

I wouldn't want to put that much heat into the spindle in the first place, since compressed air is going to be of very limited effectiveness unless there is a relatively large temperature drop from metal to air.
I wouldn't want to proceed to where the spindle itself got hot at all.

The spindle does have some good thickness that acts to resist rapid temperature increase, and water or ice would greatly increase that "thermal inertia" since liquid water has the highest "specific heat capacity" of any material on earth with ice adding latent heat of fusion to that!!

As for any concerns of the heated race damaging the epoxy, should it fail to pop off, it will lose it's modest heat to the thick spindle that it is pressed onto in very short order. I don't blame anyone for doubting me, but I've done this with a bigger race than this one and the speed of removal was pretty rapid.
The race isn't going to get very hot as long as it's still forcefully pressed onto the cooler spindle anyway, so it will simply come off or it won't during any judicious period of heating that would be worth attempting.
Cutting it off with a Dremel stone has it's own possible disadvantage related to scoring the spindle, but all things considered I did first advise using this method before resorting to heat.

As a bizarre side-note, my earliest recollection of ever being disciplined as a child was when my father discovered that, in his absence, I had absconded with his propane torch and proceeded to "test" it on just about every object about the house and yard. Some things it seems just never change.

Again, the problem is that the race and spindle are excellent conductors and the spindle is embedded in an insulator - the CF. Any heat conduction is going to transport the heat to that insulating CF where it will only act on the metal to CF bond, instead of dissipating into it. Since the race is right up against the CF, there is no way that a coolant can hope to stop the heat conduction or cool the internal bond.

You are suggesting that butter won't melt in a skillet if you only heat the bottom of the pan for a little bit, and conduction does not work like that.

AND, you won't know how much damage you did to the bond until it fails, which is not pleasant with cranks.

[dddd]

Where did I misquote you? I only have a problem with stuff that destroys things and hurts people. Geometry theories are only interesting, but you didn't explain yours enough to make sense to me.


Look, the problem with heat is best explained this way:

Take a block of wax and put a nail into it. Now immerse the block in ice water until only the nail is sticking up. Wax, like plastic, is a poor heat conductor. Now put a torch on the nail just above the wax for just long enough to make a serious temperature change in the nail.

Is the ice water going to keep the heat in the nail from melting the wax right where the nail goes in? No. Wax is a bad conductor, and the nail is a good conductor, so the heat will travel down the nail into the chilled wax and melt just the wax immediately touching the nail. It won't melt the whole block, but it will definitely affect the bond between metal and non-metal.


There is no way of controlling for that, except to use heat that is never above the melting point of non-metal. Which is a maybe 100° or so above boiling.

I can't say what the temperature of the race would reach to during a quick blast of the torch, but I don't think that it is really in very good contact with structural carbon not covered by at least a layer of resin. The flow of heat from a modestly-heated race (it's still pressed onto the cool spindle) into carbon is very limited by composite's poor thermal conductivity, and one would not want to heat the race (however locally) to a smoking-hot temperature. It would either come off with a quick blast or it wouldn't, but I sure didn't advise more than a seconds-long blasting as an easy way to do what could be done with a simple Dremel stone. A grinding process, even if it scored the thick-walled spindle, could be polished away if one was concerned about the structural effect of such, but better to perhaps grind to where the metal was very thin by appearance, and then have a go with the sharpened softer-metal screwdriver as you suggested. Surely it would take less force to remove with any severe thinning of it's cross-section?

I must admit I am quick with the torch, it seems to be in my blood and only reinforced by frequent need to free stuck spoke nipples on very old bikes (and newer ones).
As with random tasks like bending one's chainstays to a modern OLD axle width, use of tools and methods to be in accordance with one's mechanical experience in all cases, and may the simplest method win the day.

[Kontact]

I can't say what the temperature of the race would reach to during a quick blast of the torch, but I don't think that it is really in very good contact with structural carbon not covered by at least a layer of resin. The flow of heat from a modestly-heated race (it's still pressed onto the cool spindle) into carbon is very limited by composite's poor thermal conductivity, and one would not want to heat the race (however locally) to a smoking-hot temperature. It would either come off with a quick blast or it wouldn't, but I sure didn't advise more than a seconds-long blasting as an easy way to do what could be done with a simple Dremel stone. A grinding process, even if it scored the thick-walled spindle, could be polished away if one was concerned about the structural effect of such, but better to perhaps grind to where the metal was very thin by appearance, and then have a go with the sharpened softer-metal screwdriver as you suggested. Surely it would take less force to remove with any severe thinning of it's cross-section?

I must admit I am quick with the torch, it seems to be in my blood and only reinforced by frequent need to free stuck spoke nipples on very old bikes (and newer ones).
As with random tasks like bending one's chainstays to a modern OLD axle width, use of tools and methods to be in accordance with one's mechanical experience in all cases, and may the simplest method win the day.

I think the problem we are having is that you think "resin" and "carbon fiber matrix" are two different things. The Campy crank is a metal spindle that has been wrapped in resin and fiber. The resin is what makes the fiber stick to the metal.

That metal spindle is in such close contact with the race that the two are stuck to each other, so the conductivity is going to be excellent between them. 1mm away from the race is the resin that is keep the crank arm bonded to the spindle. There is no way heat one piece of metal without also heating the metal it is stuck on and the resin that is on that metal. Again, it is like trying to heat the bottom of the pan without melting some of the butter. It doesn't work like that.

The resin is not an expendable insulator - its the only thing keeping the crank arm on the spindle. You can't damage any of that.

[dddd]

Points taken, but the interference fit of the parts is quite small, lest the bearing roll "tight" on the inner race after being pressed on.

The heat required to sufficiently expand the race, immediately loosening it's grip to the point where no great thermal conduction is occurring, and then coming free before any resin-damaging temperature is reached is not going to require damaging temp's. That is the key here, that the press-fit interference is very small.

But again, I suggested this method last, after two other very simple method suggestions.
In the very unlikely scenario where the heating was deemed to be required, I am confident that you would be surprised by how rapidly that the race lost it's grip on the spindle. Race falls off, nothing left smoking or even very hot. And the resin has a temperature tolerance below which no degradation would occur, even if we take the assumption that the "critical" structural bond or fiber tension is in immediate contact with the heated race.
But you can't go too far wrong with assuming worst cases, and in any event you sure wouldn't want to be having to sell a bike to someone while disclosing how you "took a propane torch to the joint in the carbon crankset", lol.

Speaking of heat, after re-installing rails into plastic saddles a few times, I wondered if heat was perhaps used to expand the base of your saddles temporarily? Or are the rails flexed? I've used modest heat for this task.

I saw your saddle designs and wouldn't you know that I have been sourcing "flatter"-topped saddles for some years now, after suffering years ago with the likes of the Turbo and others that wedged the pelvis and make riding "on the rivet" more of an emergency procedure. I'll keep an eye out for these, but so far have chosen saddles with a bit of a rearward uplift to give added leg extension before sliding aft of the rear "edge" of the saddle.

[Kontact]

Points taken, but the interference fit of the parts is quite small, lest the bearing roll "tight" on the inner race after being pressed on.

The heat required to sufficiently expand the race, immediately loosening it's grip to the point where no great thermal conduction is occurring, and then coming free before any resin-damaging temperature is reached is not going to require damaging temp's. That is the key here, that the press-fit interference is very small.

But again, I suggested this method last, after two other very simple method suggestions.
In the very unlikely scenario where the heating was deemed to be required, I am confident that you would be surprised by how rapidly that the race lost it's grip on the spindle. Race falls off, nothing left smoking or even very hot. And the resin has a temperature tolerance below which no degradation would occur, even if we take the assumption that the "critical" structural bond or fiber tension is in immediate contact with the heated race.
But you can't go too far wrong with assuming worst cases, and in any event you sure wouldn't want to be having to sell a bike to someone while disclosing how you "took a propane torch to the joint in the carbon crankset", lol.

Speaking of heat, after re-installing rails into plastic saddles a few times, I wondered if heat was perhaps used to expand the base of your saddles temporarily? Or are the rails flexed? I've used modest heat for this task.

I saw your saddle designs and wouldn't you know that I have been sourcing "flatter"-topped saddles for some years now, after suffering years ago with the likes of the Turbo and others that wedged the pelvis and make riding "on the rivet" more of an emergency procedure. I'll keep an eye out for these, but so far have chosen saddles with a bit of a rearward uplift to give added leg extension before sliding aft of the rear "edge" of the saddle.

The race was a slip fit, but metallic corrosion has filled the clearance up to where it is now a firm press fit (it's stuck). That's why I think the heat will go right through it to the spindle (on top of the fact that the flame is as wide as the race).

Thermoforming plastics, like the nylon base material of saddles, will become more elastic with modest heat, allowing more flex up until the point that it actually melts or burns. They will also take new shapes if restrained in them as they cool - other wise they tend to go back to normal. Some can even be melted over and over.

Epoxy and most composite resins are generally thermosetting, and they don't change properties much when heated - until they are damaged. This is why CF is not recycleable - you can't melt or dissolved the resin out of the fiber.


If I can help you with saddle questions, feel free to PM or use the contact feature on our website.

[m_sasso]

Do you guys midnight as suburban arsonists? Use the proper tool, a Bearing Splitter easy as pie!
Available in many sizes at an decent automotive shop.
Heat near last resort!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71fIRhpDP7L._SY355_.jpg

[Dead Man]

pretty much no way a few seconds of halfway coordinated application of heat from a $2.50 bodega crack torch is going to melt the carbon resin

lotta arguing about nothin boys

[Kontact]

When I disassembled my c40, I (regretfully) neglected to remove the bearings from the fulcrum ut cranks for a while, and now I have this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171217/27a3230872c46c44593ff8da964305dd.jpg

I used the park campy bearing puller tool, and the bearing assembly just came apart. Drive side came off just fine, but the outside race is stuck on the nds. I drizzled some lube on it in hopes of loosening it, but haven't attacked it again yet. Ideas?

Tia,
Ari
Where is the C-clip groove in this picture?

[dddd]

pretty much no way a few seconds of halfway coordinated application of heat from a $2.50 bodega crack torch is going to melt the carbon resin

lotta arguing about nothin boys

But I don't ever use a bodega crack torch, honest!

One time long ago I used a propane torch to flash off some of the liquid solvent in my freshly-lubed chain, so that the solvent-diluted lube wouldn't tend to fly off and get onto the rim.
I thoughtlessly held the torch in one place while turning the cranks, managed to "black spot" the rear tire sidewall.
Another time, even longer ago, I was torch-soldering an open seam at the bottom end of a gutter down spout, when unbeknownst to me some dry organic material inside of the spout pipe suddenly began burning. I was startled to see the paint suddenly change color and start peeling away from the pipe which by now was sucking air noisily while acting as a tall chimney.
At least the roof didn't catch fire, I can't remember much else but there must have been a garden hose nearby and I probably had to do some explaining.

[Mackers]

-

[weisan]

Do you guys midnight as suburban arsonists? Use the proper tool, a Bearing Splitter easy as pie!
Available in many sizes at an decent automotive shop.
Heat near last resort!

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71fIRhpDP7L._SY355_.jpg

Haha....simple fix. That's brilliant.

It reminded me of a team that i led a while ago. I walked into the room and there was a heated discussion between two of our most senior technical programmers over how to fix an issue. They are getting ready to throw things at each other when a gal in the team who is from the non-technical side of the house and who typically don't say much during our team meetings. She suggested a "non-technical" solution that actually addresses the real issue. It was great!

I have always set up the ground rules with any team that i lead from day 1, to make sure everyone understood the importance of diversity and different skillets required for us to succeed. In this day and age with technology being touted as the savior, a lot of ego and pride were wrapped up within people that offers great technical skill and knowledge but lacking people skills or other areas of personal development, I was sure to put them in their place before we roll up our sleeves and work together as a team.

[oldpotatoe]

Where is the C-clip groove in this picture?

Only on the RH crank arm..none on left. Sharper 'feet', and using the suppled puller, both great ideas. If no soap, send it to me and I'll get it off w/o killing(or heating) it...

[ultraman6970]

I have one of those bearing separators like in the picture, actually it is sold as a crown fork tool, either way, the thing is that IMO the bearing piece that is stuck in the crankset is set tight and with no room to fit that tool under it, maybe if its filed really well but the other challenging thing is that the arms of crankset will be in the middle, that tool relies is a hammer to pull the piece out.

Another solution is to use two tools, the bearing separator and the jaw puller like the tool the op used. You put the bearing separator and pull using the jaw puller tool.

Another solution, dremel a tad just to get the bearing separator in place, then use the jaw puller, 3 tools :D

If nothing works, dremel which is the simplest and quicker solution.

Read about heating the area?? thats way too extreme even for me, I wouldnt heat that area at all, besides damaging the carbon, the metal could deform or even get brittle. Bad idea.

[dddd]

For metal's "grain" structure to be affected by heat would take like 7 or 8 times as much heat input as would be needed for the race to lose it's grip on the spindle.
Even if it was aluminum!

Seems one has to have done this already to visualize how fast it works though.

[oldpotatoe]

For metal's "grain" structure to be affected by heat would take like 7 or 8 times as much heat input as would be needed for the race to lose it's grip on the spindle.
Even if it was aluminum!

Seems one has to have done this already to visualize how fast it works though.

Not a materials guy nor am I Kontact but I think his point isn’t heat damaging the metal spindle but damaging the ‘glue’ which holds the spindle to the carbon crank arm....which is carbon shreds molded in a glue/epoxy ‘bath’...

This whole gig isn’t that hard to solve. A sharp footed puller, some ooomph and it’ll come off. Anybody that has removed or installed these bearings(and I’ve done many), it just doesn’t take that much force to remove or install.

And for right below, the spindle is steel.

[FlashUNC]

I wouldn't take a torch near anything that has carbon as a core part of the structure, and the only thing holding those arms to the alloy spindle is that.

So...

Yeah, get a bigger puller.

[dddd]

From looking at the OP's photo, the spindle is in fact made of steel, and is that a flange that the inner race butts up against, or is it the seal that was part of the bearing?
If the spindle were alloy, chilling might be more effective than heating.

It appears that, either way, the inner race does not contact any carbon or resin at all, so unless someone were foolishly trying to really heat up the spindle, or heated the bearing without some kind of simple shielding in place, ...why/how would any carbon even get heated significantly?

And the "bearing splitter" someone posted looks like it would do the job in all likelihood. I'll be shopping for a good price on one of those, but I've removed many a stubborn crown race using common tools at home and with no parts damage to report.

I've somewhat enjoyed this lively post-game discussion since last night, but man, if we were working in a shop and spent anywhere this much time talking about how to get this bearing replaced, we'd have all been fired by now!

[josephr]

Haha....simple fix. That's brilliant.

It reminded me of a team that i led a while ago. I walked into the room and there was a heated discussion between two of our most senior technical programmers over how to fix an issue. They are getting ready to throw things at each other when a gal in the team who is from the non-technical side of the house and who typically don't say much during our team meetings. She suggested a "non-technical" solution that actually addresses the real issue. It was great!

I have always set up the ground rules with any team that i lead from day 1, to make sure everyone understood the importance of diversity and different skillets required for us to succeed. In this day and age with technology being touted as the savior, a lot of ego and pride were wrapped up within people that offers great technical skill and knowledge but lacking people skills or other areas of personal development, I was sure to put them in their place before we roll up our sleeves and work together as a team.

WeiPal- this is the best thread we've had in a long while, isn't it??? where's the popcorn smiley??? torch near CF? yes or no??? next-up: KFC vs Chick-Fil-A!?!?!?!?

[weisan]

Joseph pal, to be honest, this is the part that amuses me the most.

As soon as someone mentioned the torch, the entire thread was derailed. We all latched on to that like a bulldog. This happens so often around here.

Relax people.

Nobody is going to die.

[rrudoff]

Actually heating will not work, the Thermal expansion of the carbon/epoxy composite is significantly larger than the bearing body. It will actually get tighter. This is aside from potential damage to the composite-any temperature enough to break the bond is likely to damage the spindle.

As someone mentioned, chilling might work, but it would be dry ice or LN2 to make a difference. Packing the spindle and bearing in Dry Ice would be interesting to try, I have has this work very well for interference fits of bearings before. Failing that, as others have said I would grind it off with a rotary tool, or if you had access, chuck it up in a spindle in a mill or lathe and cut if off with a cutting tool.

[ultraman6970]

If the op doesnt want to deal with the problem I can give you 10 bucks for the set :D

[dddd]

Actually heating will not work, the Thermal expansion of the carbon/epoxy composite is significantly larger than the bearing body. It will actually get tighter. This is aside from potential damage to the composite-any temperature enough to break the bond is likely to damage the spindle. ..

I believe that the spindle is steel, not CF.

[Kontact]

Joseph pal, to be honest, this is the part that amuses me the most.

As soon as someone mentioned the torch, the entire thread was derailed. We all latched on to that like a bulldog. This happens so often around here.

Relax people.

Nobody is going to die.

The reason I 'derailed' the thread is because someone could die, or at least get seriously injured if the bonds holding the crank together failed in a sprint from heat damage.

That's the only reason I felt the need to make the point, not because I need to be the smartest guy in the room. Carbon/metal composite parts can't be treated like all metal parts. Carbon fiber is held together by relatively high temp and chemically stable stuff - for a plastic. But compared to even magnesium it is like hard candy.


This is a tech thread about how to do something correctly and safely. That is a lot more important than maintaining some sort of genteel veneer.

[weisan]

kontact pal, I accept and embrace your stance as well but don't you think maybe one or two time caution is enough? My mum used to say, if someone is not gonna listen to you, you can say it a thousand times and it won't matter. Go and count the number of torch-related posts.

And to think that I and others don't actually get this "subtle" point is really quite presumptuous. Folks around here are not as dumb as we looked.

if for some reason, at this point, you still feel the urge to keep hammering your point and keep this argument going EVEN after I have written my response - then you just made my point.

[oldpotatoe]

The reason I 'derailed' the thread is because someone could die, or at least get seriously injured if the bonds holding the crank together failed in a sprint from heat damage.

That's the only reason I felt the need to make the point, not because I need to be the smartest guy in the room. Carbon/metal composite parts can't be treated like all metal parts. Carbon fiber is held together by relatively high temp and chemically stable stuff - for a plastic. But compared to even magnesium it is like hard candy.


This is a tech thread about how to do something correctly and safely. That is a lot more important than maintaining some sort of genteel veneer.

I agree...damaging a crankset, like any point on a bike that you 'touch', like stem/handlebars, pedals, etc..when it breaks, you get hurt. PLUS, if a guy wants to post a dozen times about the same thing, so what..like I heard, it's bikes, relax..

Discussion group, discuss or don't...but how and why somebody posts, as long as no rules are broken..WHOGAS(seems some do tho).

BACK to crank..for the OP, give us an update ad if all else fails, send it to me and I'll get it off(w/o heat, BTW)...

[weisan]

As of yesterday 0600 CST...

Because of all your previous responses and PMs, you have removed every doubt in my mind. So now, you have the honor of being the first to be on my "Ignore" list.

You can be imbued with all the technical brilliance or a walking encyclopedia, but when you lose my respect, you have nothing.

This shall be the last I will say about this.

[ultraman6970]

???????????? how in the world do you add somebody to the ignore list? just asking.

[oldpotatoe]

???????????? how in the world do you add somebody to the ignore list? just asking.

User CP at top left..under that, Settings and Options, then Edit ignore list.

[staggerwing]

Bearing races are heat treated to over 60 HRc, and as such, are brittle. Should be able to take your Dremel tool, and score the race to about 50% depth in a couple places and hit with a cold chisel to break.

As others have noted, no torch.

[ariw]

Not sure if I should feel honored that my post engendered such a response, but this has been entertaining :). Should be able to get at this with the Dremel later in the week, will update the thread with my results. I looked at the crown race puller, but I am not sure that I would be able to get it under the race due to the tight fit, so I am going to wait on ordering it.

-Ari

[54ny77]

bummer. do you have a REALLY good shop you could take it to for evaluation?

if so, let them handle it. that's my $0.00000002.

[wildboar]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/05/11/14/340B136400000578-3584930-image-a-52_1462975007410.jpg

Was gonna mention you could maybe file through that ring Alcatraz-style, with a triangular hand file.

Not sure how my first post got pulled into the fire discussion, was not what I intended.

[Kontact]

kontact pal, I accept and embrace your stance as well but don't you think maybe one or two time caution is enough? My mum used to say, if someone is not gonna listen to you, you can say it a thousand times and it won't matter. Go and count the number of torch-related posts.

And to think that I and others don't actually get this "subtle" point is really quite presumptuous. Folks around here are not as dumb as we looked.

if for some reason, at this point, you still feel the urge to keep hammering your point and keep this argument going EVEN after I have written my response - then you just made my point.

So, now you're calling me "presumptuous"????

You need to shut up. NO ONE appreciates your nannying and public aggression. You want to ignore someone - then do it like a grown up.

Most everyone here likes OldePotatoe. I see little evidence that anyone is really getting the 'Weisan experience'. That "bike is not judged" thread of your is 107 posts of people poking fun of your pretentious nonsense.

[Kontact]

Was gonna mention you could maybe file through that ring Alcatraz-style, with a triangular hand file.


The main problem with a file is that the race is hardened steel, and the file will likely skip off of it. You also have to worry about filing laterally into the crank.


Overall, a good soak with a penetrating solution and the right kind of puller should get the race off.

Calling Campy and talking to they tech guys might be valuable.

[Kontact]

Not sure if I should feel honored that my post engendered such a response, but this has been entertaining :). Should be able to get at this with the Dremel later in the week, will update the thread with my results. I looked at the crown race puller, but I am not sure that I would be able to get it under the race due to the tight fit, so I am going to wait on ordering it.

-Ari
Sometimes tools like that can be rented for cheap from auto parts stores.

[charliedid]

For Pete's sake is this thing off yet? I hope you don't bill hourly! LOL

[steveoz]

I run into comparable situations doing reel repair -bearings rusting solid on spool shafts- I use a vise to crack the outer race which leaves just the inner race stuck on - although in my situation the bearings sizes are smaller this technique may work for you - I file two, opposing flat sides on the race and use a good crescent wrench to twist the race (half the time it just fractures..) - once it moves you're good...and like virtually everyone else has stated - don't use heat ...( a forum member mention the hard race resisting the file - a high quality, fine cut metal file will breeze through..) good luck...

[ariw]

Problem solved, vertical notch with a dremel wheel and then using the park bearing puller again did the trick. Time for everyone to grab a beer and chill out...

Thanks,
Ari

[charliedid]

Nice work Ari.

[m_sasso]

Am I going to sleep tonight!

[oldpotatoe]

Problem solved, vertical notch with a dremel wheel and then using the park bearing puller again did the trick. Time for everyone to grab a beer and chill out...

Thanks,
Ari

HUZZAH!!! Good grief, I'll all worn out..do ya need bearings? I have them..they are a unique width for that size. 6805/6mm vice 7mm..