Sell me on etap?

[huck*this]

Hey guys so was mulling this over last night. Picked up a new Look 695 heritage (see below, not actual bike) that has 2016 Super Record on it. I have the chance to get etap with Wifl. Should I go with etap over the SR? Is it a game changer performance wise as I have read?If I stay with SR it will sport the Bora 50 tubs and etap will go with DA c35.

Thanks in advance with all help.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/35/22/0d352221b48fb6b6deedcf577dc685aa.jpg

[AngryScientist]

Is it a game changer performance wise as I have read?



people use the phrase "game changer" far, far too often. i have not used etap on the road, but i dont see how the "performance" is going to be much different than with campy super record. etap is cool for easy install, clean no-wire look, travel bike convenience, etc - but shifting performance, c'mon

edit to expand: it's not like you're comparing etap to like 1994 sora or something that truly sucked. two top level groups are going to both have pretty excellent shifting performance, with some subtleties, but one is definitely not going to be a "game changer", for sure.

regardless of how well it shift compared to SR, you still use integrated brake levers to shift derailleur based cogsets and chainrings - the game is "unchanged".


IMO

[mcteague]

The main issues I read about eTap are slightly slower shifting as compared to the other e-groups and some reports of battery tab breakage. I agree that the primary advantage appears to be ease of setup. I would stick with the Campy stuff.

Tim

[Tickdoc]

I encourage you to go tap just so I can have a chance at the sr bits.

I'd take mechanical campy sr any day over anything sram.

[Hilltopperny]

Etap is pretty and easy to set up. Nick pretty much laid it out there in his response. It certainly doesn't make you faster or improve your shifting performance imo, but it definitely looks better on a bike that is set up for electronic shifting.

I prefer the aesthetics to the di2/eps wired groups, but I found the 9070 group I have to be the best as far as performance goes for the electronic groups I've tried. All that being said if I were building another electronic frameset up it'd be Etap that would go on it.

[R3awak3n]

I have just got some etap parts, I have not put any miles on them. I just got them installed on a frame (which is not even getting those parts), only shifter and RD (don't have the FD yet).

I don't think it will change anything in terms of performance, you press one shifter goes up, you press other goes down. But what it did was, put a smile in my face. Its a damn cool system. So easy to install and works very well. I am impressed so far.

Would I change from SR if I already had it? No. But I had the chance to hang any group on this bike and got etap curious and I think I will like it very much.

[chiasticon]

some people are so devoted to Campy that they would rather walk than ride Shimano, and torch their bike before putting Sram on it. so you may get some biased answers. but that fact your considering eTap over SR says to me you're open minded enough to give it a fair shake.

sometimes we swap bike parts just to see why everyone loves 'em so much. sometimes we agree, sometimes not. if that's you with this bike and you're feeling eTap, give it a shot. I'm sure you won't get killed on the resale if you hate it.

[oldpotatoe]

Hey guys so was mulling this over last night. Picked up a new Look 695 heritage (see below, not actual bike) that has 2016 Super Record on it. I have the chance to get etap with Wifl. Should I go with etap over the SR? Is it a game changer performance wise as I have read?If I stay with SR it will sport the Bora 50 tubs and etap will go with DA c35.

Thanks in advance with all help.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0d/35/22/0d352221b48fb6b6deedcf577dc685aa.jpg

Not sure how 'performance wise' it would be a game changer. Easy set up but not quite as simple when it comes to moving the chain around as any mechanical or the other 2 electronic(etap-both levers to shift front der, RH for higher, LH for lower, gear)..yes, yes, it works and all but 'performance game changer'? Don't see how..just another way to move the chain around.

IMHO, of course.

[SPOKE]

Comparing Etap to EPS or Di2......biggest difference is ETap is easier to install. The way shifts are achieved between the groups are different so it can really be a personal preference (only achieved after you have lived with each group for a little while). You'll get used to what ever group you choose. Shifting speed differences won't be noticed unless you have the 3 different groups.
I'm a fan of all the electronic groups and have them on bikes. The most trouble free so far has been Di2 but I just started living with ETap so a bit early to tell about any issues with that group. I did order 2 extra batteries for the ETap system just in case I had a tab failure.

[R3awak3n]

I am a campy guy, never had anything else. Sram did good with this one. Some minor annoyences that krammin was telling me are that you shift down with the right shifter, they should let you program this stuff but they dont. Very closed system.

I think etap is the best looking of all the groups (sorry campy). The silver is just nice and yea the batteries are ugly but they kind of disapear. Not having internal cables is a blessing (f internal cables) and the beat of all, you dont have to bring your bike next to an outlet to charge, this is not a tesla. You can also carry an extra battery which is very nice as well. I will miss the thumb shifters and from putting my hands on the sram shifters, the ergo is miles behind feom campy and shimano. These remind me of the 10 speed campy shifters, which are great but not as confortable as 11 speed.

I thought about going eps but the whole v2 v3 changes and where to drill holes just annoyed me.

[happycampyer]

To echo what others have said, there's a lot of personal preference involved. For me, the biggest factor is ergonomics. I like the shape of Campy hoods the best, and for me the "game changer" is the action of the thumb shifters and the ability to shift multiple cogs in one swift movement. In terms of hood ergonomics, eTap is second and Di2 third, although the latest Di2 hoods look to be much nicer. In therms of shifting quality, Di2 is precise and flawless. I don't have EPS, but I know several people who have had issues with it and given up on it, and others who love it. I find eTap shifting to be a little slow, but not in a way that's really bothersome. It's just noticeable.

In terms of reliability, my first eTap front derailleur had some sort of short and would drain the battery in less than a week, and it seems as if the replacement has the same problem. That seems to be par for the course with SRAM—they are in distant fourth in terms of quality of manufacturing after Shimano and Campagnolo.

[oldpotatoe]

I am a campy guy, never had anything else. Sram did good with this one. Some minor annoyences that krammin was telling me are that you shift down with the right shifter, they should let you program this stuff but they dont. Very closed system.

I think etap is the best looking of all the groups (sorry campy). The silver is just nice and yea the batteries are ugly but they kind of disapear. Not having internal cables is a blessing (f internal cables) and the beat of all, you dont have to bring your bike next to an outlet to charge, this is not a tesla. You can also carry an extra battery which is very nice as well. I will miss the thumb shifters and from putting my hands on the sram shifters, the ergo is miles behind feom campy and shimano. These remind me of the 10 speed campy shifters, which are great but not as confortable as 11 speed.

I thought about going eps but the whole v2 v3 changes and where to drill holes just annoyed me.

No holes for v3 charging..up at interface ala di2..just for info.

[glepore]

I don't think it's a "game changer." I have a set that's getting hung on a bike that was set up for purely external routing, only because I wanted electronic. However, having ridden just about every group that's out there, I'll say that really, of them all, nothing actually beats good old DA 7800, ugly cables and all.

The real advantage of electronic shifting in my experience is that you can be unbelievably stupid about shifting the fd under loaded conditions that might trip up a mechanical group. Other than that, it comes down to ergonomics and appearance.

[Dave B]

I have mostly used mechanical stuff. I love campy 10speed hoods as it fits my hand perfectly.

I use SRAM for my cross bikes as i don't care if it breaks or gets messed up. Not that I dislike SRAM, it just seems easier to find cheaper 10speed parts.

I did cobble together an Ultegra Di2 once on a no e-set up bike with zip ties and so on. I thought it was a blast. Didn't have problems. I think i could have made a permanent switch if I had bikes set up for e-shifting.

With that said I have considered eTap for some of the bikes I love as less wires would make it work perfectly.

Just seems like a steep cost to give it a go. With so many bikes set up for campy, I just don't want to switch. I just love Campy...not because it allows me entrance into an elite society or gets me a secret handshake. It just looks right to me.

I have a basically new chorus 11speed group and would happily swap it out for a 10speed record group. Just don't know if that is a fair deal.

[David Kirk]

eTap is fun.

dave

[zap]

edit

some people are so devoted to Campy that they would rather walk than ride Shimano, and torch their bike before putting Sram on it.

errr, long time Campy bloke who just purchased a complete new bicycle (a first since '86) with Shimano Ultegra group.

However, the new bicycle is in the correct order of all things bicycles........beater bike.

Still, I know I'm going to hell....................

Regarding SRAM, you are correct.

So my vote, keep the SR...........and Bora's are the best.

[NoMoreParagon]

i had Campy 2015 mech, EPS v2 and v3 and now eTap..
in few words: compared to EPS, eTap S-U-C-K-S

Campy is 100x times better. the EPS is precise, fast and battery runs long. it takes a real effort to mess up a shift with EPS.

and yeah eTap is easier to install, but infinitely much harder to set up for crisp shifting.
The FD is so sensitive to angle and height adjustment and takes few iteration to get it right,

Please do keep Campy. eTap is a hype. Its good but nowhere close to Campy performance.

Aesthetically also Campy is so much more pleasant. the line, the carbon shells..eTap rear derailleur is clunky and so are the shifters.

I think ppl that come from mechanical, they will love eTap. But for ppl coming from EPS, eTap is a disappointment. Hope it helps

[FlashUNC]

Used both EPS and Campy mechanical, big Campy fanboi.

eTap kills everything else electronic imo. Dead simple to shift, works great and has given me zero issues outta the gate riding it regularly the last 4 months.

I love Campy mechanical, but I may go eTap on everything. It's that good.

[huck*this]

Thanks guys for all the feedback. Good to see the "regulars" post here which I do take their info seriously.

The "Game Changer" phrase is what I gathered from reading reviews just on etap.

Maybe its just me but from reading all the posts in this thread it seems split? Setup is not something I weigh just out right performance while using the group. Hmm still thinking....

[berserk87]

My question to you is this:

why are you wanting to be talked into considering E-tap?

What specifically are you looking for out of the change? Or is it just to scratch the itch that we call get from time to time, to try something new and perhaps fun?

[54ny77]

etap is so friggin' cool.

advice: ignore the internet and go play with it in person.

that'll tell you whether you like it or not.

[SoCalSteve]

Thanks guys for all the feedback. Good to see the "regulars" post here which I do take their info seriously.

The "Game Changer" phrase is what I gathered from reading reviews just on etap.

Maybe its just me but from reading all the posts in this thread it seems split? Setup is not something I weigh just out right performance while using the group. Hmm still thinking....

If set up and aesthetics ( personal, of course ) are not a factor, then stick with what you have. Etap will not perform better than any other high level group.

What you will get is a very clean looking bike. You will never have to worry about taking the bike apart if a wire comes loose and if you have a Garmin unit, the interface is seamless. You also will be able to carry an extra ( very small, very inexpensive) battery with you if one dies on you.

Is it a game changer, no. Does it solve issues that wired electronic shifting has, yes. Is it worth it if you already have a really great group, probably not.

Personally, after many 1000’s of miles with ETap over 5 bikes, I can truly say that I cannot believed wired electronic groups should have ever been designed, produced, sold. In my mind ( and what do I know ) and after using wired electronic on many bikes over many ,many thousands of miles, I truly believe wireless is far superior, it just solves so many issues over wired.

[Kirk007]

my arthritic thumbs were getting killed by my beloved Campy and I sold it all. Dura Ace 9100 mech works great. Just set up a bike with etap and will do another one soon. Works fine so far. Like the clean look yada yada.

Must disagree with earlier poster re etap sucking compared to EPS. In my experience none of the top end groups suck; quite the opposite.

But for my thumbs I'd probably still be on Campy due to inertia but little else.

[Imaking20]

Etap is definitely cool - that's why you see it all over the internet. I tried it after 9070 which I loathed. Coming from that, I appreciated the lack of failure points hidden inside my frame. I work in technology and riding a bike is supposed to be the opposite side of the spectrum for me - being stranded because of a software issue or a wire coming unplugged was maddening and made me not even like riding that bike (electronic only C59).

Etap is easier to setup than anything else I've built... but you don't setup your bike every day. You shift it. The shift quality, in my opinion, is inferior to basically every group I've ridden that wasn't SRAM (which is where I started and was loyal to for years). If I were to build a digi-bike, it would be etap because of the aforementioned wiring gremlins and I appreciated the more decisive feedback from the shifters (I've never mis-shifted anything as much as I did 9070).

If you don't want to see shift cables - buy etap (I actually believe a cluttered di2/eps build (which is most of them) looks worse than traditional cables). If your priority is quality of front shifting or speed of rear shifting - don't.

Edit: After doing 9000 > 9070 > Etap > 9100 > SR in the last ~18 months... I just took delivery of more 9100 last night. So that's where I sit.

[huck*this]

^^Very good points^^^

Question, Will etap work well with the Zed2 crank on the Look?

[SoCalSteve]

^^Very good points^^^

Question, Will etap work well with the Zed2 crank on the Look?

Etap appears to play well with everything. I use a Dura Ace crankset, others have used Campy. I actually prefer the DA chain and cassette over the SRAM equivalent. I feel its quieter, crisper and faster. People have said the same in regards to Campy gear as well.

[FlashUNC]

^^Very good points^^^

Question, Will etap work well with the Zed2 crank on the Look?

Used mine for four months with a Campy Chorus UT crank. You'd think it came stock that way. I'm sure it'll be fine.

[charliedid]

It works in a fish tank.

[R3awak3n]

I am with SocalSteve.

I really think campy and sram missed the mark not coming out with wireless. The technology has been there and they could have easily developed it and probably would have been better than etap.

I know people will say, who cares about a few wires but I would have had 0 interest in electric group set if it wasn't for the fact that it was wireless. That is the beauty of it imo.

At least now with shimano you can get the hidden bar end brain but I really dislike the look of the control box zip tied to the stem... that scrams prototype to me.

As far as shifting goes, I have read dozens of reviews and for the most part people love etap. The best reviews however are of di2, the fastest, most precise, great battery life ect.... only downside of di2 is the lever shifting, a pain when you have gloves. EPS I have heard mix reviews of. V3 definitely seems like a great upgrade though with how the battery charging works.

[kramnnim]

^^Very good points^^^

Question, Will etap work well with the Zed2 crank on the Look?

This reminded me that I bought my etap group from a local friend who bought it from a guy who bought it to use on his Look 695. It did not work properly with the 695 so he sold it.

[chiasticon]

I really think campy and sram missed the mark not coming out with wireless. The technology has been there and they could have easily developed it and probably would have been better than etap.

I know people will say, who cares about a few wires but I would have had 0 interest in electric group set if it wasn't for the fact that it was wireless. That is the beauty of it imo.Campy yes, Sram no ;)

(I know you meant Shimano.)

I agree though. I don't like the wired e-groups really. looks wise or having to route internally. I know people scream about the four e-tap batteries, but it's a not a bad trade-off I think.

[huck*this]

This reminded me that I bought my etap group from a local friend who bought it from a guy who bought it to use on his Look 695. It did not work properly with the 695 so he sold it.

Was your buddy's buddy Chris?

[David Tollefson]

As a framebuilder (yes, I know that's not most of you), eTAP is a game changer. Fewer braze-ons means fewer points of extra heat on a tube, and no holes in the frame for internally routing wires or cables. Those are often where a frame starts to fail. And it's less touch-work on the frame.*

For anyone that prefers the aesthetic of internally routed cables, eTAP is the ticket. It's the clean look that I dig.

* And for those that want to know, yes, I charge less for a eTAP-dedicated frame, just as I do for dedicated single-speeds, and for the same reason.

[R3awak3n]

Campy yes, Sram no ;)

(I know you meant Shimano.)

I agree though. I don't like the wired e-groups really. looks wise or having to route internally. I know people scream about the four e-tap batteries, but it's a not a bad trade-off I think.

ahah, yes I meant shimano.

The 4 batteries really aren't a deal braker to me. At first I thought it was dumb, mainly the shifter batteries, but they last for 2 years so its not a big deal at all.

The derailleur batteries charge damn fast and last for a good time. Also with the ability to have extras, its nice to just have 1 in the charger ready to be thrown on the bike. From what I read, the rear battery lasts longer than the front so having 1 extra is great.


As far as framebuilders and etap, I know when I just sent my frame back for repair and ask to remove all the cable stops he was totally cool with it but when I mentioned eps it seemed like it was a pain in the ass (probably because di2 is different than campy v2 thats different than v3).

[crankles]

but not quite as simple when it comes to moving the chain around as any mechanical or the other 2 electronic(etap-both levers to shift front der, RH for higher, LH for lower, gear)

To each his own. I find it WAY easier.

This may not translate as well on the road, but I've been racing CX all season on two bikes, one with di2, one with etap and giving each about equal time.

etap wins for me because I find that it's virtually impossible to miss-shift by hitting the wrong button. Not so with di2...especially with gloves or on bumpy courses. It doesn't happen often, but when it does, it's usually in a situation where you'd really wished it hadn't ;-).

I'm a big fan of electronic for race situations (especially CX), and a bigger fan of etap's shifting paradigm. Now if they could only make a decent Hydro brake.

[bob heinatz]

Give it a try then you will know. As others have suggested if you don’t like it sell it. Perhaps you can find a group used.

[Jeff N.]

I say wait a year or two. It's almost certain that Campy and Shimano will go wireless eventually (soon), making everything before it obsolete...then you'll have all those holes all over your frame. Better yet, stick (IMO) with mechanical...I'd MUCH rather try to sell you on DA 9100 Mechanical.

[mistermo]

Not many seem to be answering the question directly. Since you didn't ask about Di2 or EPS, let's ignore them.

I have bikes built with both eTap and Campy Record/SR. I like both. There are days I prefer one or the other. My "A" bike is built with eTap and it's just so easy to use. It's not slow shifting at all. All this brewha about shifting speed is crazy. My mechanical Campy doesn't shift slow and eTap shifts faster. Maybe Di2 or EPS is faster still, but who cares. I like the battery system of the eTap and the clean lines. Another thing I like about eTap is the logical shifting system. Left=harder, right=easier. IMO, this makes it easy to switch between Campy bikes and eTap bikes without 'rewiring' my shifting brain.

In short, both are great and you can't go wrong. If you haven't tried eTap, give it a whirl. But you won't go wrong with SR either. There's something inherently proper about a Euro bike with SR and Boras. Neither is game changing. This is a good choice to have.

PS. Not sure why you'd pick wifli. The reg derailleur should be sufficient. On one of my bikes I've got it shifting an 11-30 cassette.

[bigman]

My experience is with Ui2 and eTap. I tried eTap for 2 reasons - put it on a travel bike and did not want the wires and SOCAL Steve's endorsement.
They both work very well, but the eTap shifting is amazingly intuitive, and for a rig that is being broken down to be packed up it is very convenient not have to deal with the wires.
It should be noted I use the eTap with 6800 cranks chain, cassette and
brakes. It's terrific.

[Bob Ross]

Another thing I like about eTap is the logical shifting system. Left=harder, right=easier.

I thought eTap was the other way around?

[mistermo]

I thought eTap was the other way around?
It is! It's so intuitive I never even think about it!

[R3awak3n]

It is! It's so intuitive I never even think about it!

I think they missed the mark on that. Don't get me wrong, totally fine if you have 3 etap bikes but when you have other bikes with different shifting systems, it is kind of annoying that right shifts down and left shifts up on the RD.

[simonov]

I think they missed the mark on that. Don't get me wrong, totally fine if you have 3 etap bikes but when you have other bikes with different shifting systems, it is kind of annoying that right shifts down and left shifts up on the RD.

In practice it's not at all annoying. This has all been hashed out before, but I jump around between mechanical SRAM, Campy and Shimano and eTap bikes and the easiest one to adapt to and away from is eTap. Campy always leaves my pinky looking for a lever to click from the bar tops when I try the other mechanical bikes. The floppy Shimano brake lever takes a little getting used to as well. But eTap is always a breeze.

[R3awak3n]

In practice it's not at all annoying. This has all been hashed out before, but I jump around between mechanical SRAM, Campy and Shimano and eTap bikes and the easiest one to adapt to and away from is eTap. Campy always leaves my pinky looking for a lever to click from the bar tops when I try the other mechanical bikes. The floppy Shimano brake lever takes a little getting used to as well. But eTap is always a breeze.

but sram should just let us program what we wanted. I agree its great and it will be easy to adapt to but why not just give us the choice

[simonov]

but sram should just let us program what we wanted. I agree its great and it will be easy to adapt to but why not just give us the choice

Probably because the stability of a closed system outweighs the complexity of a user programmable system. From a software, and possibly a hardware, standpoint, making it so the user can program the buttons to do what they want opens up the product to errors or user introduced problems. I know plenty of people with Di2 who have done more harm than good with trying to customize the function.

[FlashUNC]

And there's only two levers. Whattya gonna do, swap what the left and right one do? There's only two of them. I doubt that's worth the time developing software to customize the use of the paddles.

[R3awak3n]

I am sorry guys but I will disagree with both of you.

Keep the system closed but do give users some options. Speed of shifting, which one goes up and down, ect.

It would not be that hard to do. Mainly I just want to switch the way the pads shift so if they just let me do that, I would be happy.

But then again, I don't actually have the etap on the bike yet, for all we know I will love the way the right shifter shifts down and the left up.

[choke]

Etap is easier to setup than anything else I've built... but you don't setup your bike every day. You shift it. The shift quality, in my opinion, is inferior to basically every group I've ridden that wasn't SRAM (which is where I started and was loyal to for years). If I were to build a digi-bike, it would be etap because of the aforementioned wiring gremlins and I appreciated the more decisive feedback from the shifters (I've never mis-shifted anything as much as I did 9070).<snip>

If your priority is quality of front shifting or speed of rear shifting - don't.I'm confused.....you say the shifting is inferior yet that you'd build a bike with it if you were going electronic. :confused: Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

[chiasticon]

but sram should just let us program what we wanted. I agree its great and it will be easy to adapt to but why not just give us the choiceI'm guessing we'll eventually see it. Shimano and Campy didn't have the user customizing option when they launched electronic, right? or did they...? didn't follow super closely but thought those were announced a year or two later...

simonov is correct that that will then open up all sorts of other issues for them to track down. you have to test every conceivable way a user would program it, against every conceivable thing they could possibly do wrong while riding or hanging it on the bike. add in all the ways they could also mess something up just by screwing up the programming process itself and they have an awful lot of test cases. going the simple route first - one group, one way to shift it - is a good way to guarantee you have less issues with a brand new, top tier product. then enhance it later once you recoup those R&D costs.

[kramnnim]

Was your buddy's buddy Chris?

Maybe. Charlotte area? I think I saw this Look for sale on OSM?

[happycampyer]

To expand on what I mean by speed of shifting, I’m referring to the response of the derailleur to the shift input. With mechanical shifting (my experience is almost exclusively with Campagnolo), the cable starts to pull the moment pressure is applied so, by the time the lever is thrown (or the thumb lever is depressed), the shift has occurred. Shifting obviously takes some effort since there is resistance from the cable, but that effort is part of what allows one to feel, for example, how many cogs are being shifted, etc. And the speed of the shift is as quick as the shifting motion. Di2 is also very quick, since it’s a simple click of a button. Otoh, I’m not a big fan of the mousy buttons. They don’t work well with gloves, and you need more precise hand positions to shift than with the other groups. With eTap, it seems as if there is a delay in the response to the lever, as if the shift is occurring when the lever is in the return phase of the shift motion.

Another thing I like about Campagnolo shifters is the ability to dump both of the thumb levers at once, to shift to the smaller chainring at the same time as shifting up a cog or two. It’s a hard motion to perform on Di2, and impossible on eTap (one needs both levers to shift the front derailleur).

None of these things is significant in the grand scheme of things. It’s a matter of personal preference. I won my eTap group as a prize in a raffle, so I don’t have much skin in the game. I put it on a travel bike, which makes for a clean and simple set up. If I didn’t have a travel bike, I would probably sell it.

[54ny77]

But oh what a travel bike it is!

:banana:

I put it on a travel bike, which makes for a clean and simple set up. If I didn’t have a travel bike, I would probably sell it.

[macaroon]

Some of you lot need your eyes testing, Etap looks atrocious.
When has adding a battery pack to anything ever made it look better?
It's the worst looking groupset out there, although some fat tubed carbon bikes can pull it off. But on a steel framed bike it's just a nasty juxtaposition.
Aside from that, it's supposed to work really well. I would pick it over Di2, but probably not SR!

[pdmtong]

Not many seem to be answering the question directly. Since you didn't ask about Di2 or EPS, let's ignore them.

I have bikes built with both eTap and Campy Record/SR. I like both. There are days I prefer one or the other. My "A" bike is built with eTap and it's just so easy to use. It's not slow shifting at all. All this brewha about shifting speed is crazy. My mechanical Campy doesn't shift slow and eTap shifts faster. Maybe Di2 or EPS is faster still, but who cares. I like the battery system of the eTap and the clean lines. Another thing I like about eTap is the logical shifting system. Left=harder, right=easier. IMO, this makes it easy to switch between Campy bikes and eTap bikes without 'rewiring' my shifting brain.

In short, both are great and you can't go wrong. If you haven't tried eTap, give it a whirl. But you won't go wrong with SR either. There's something inherently proper about a Euro bike with SR and Boras. Neither is game changing. This is a good choice to have.

PS. Not sure why you'd pick wifli. The reg derailleur should be sufficient. On one of my bikes I've got it shifting an 11-30 cassette.

you have it backwards

eTAP

All of the underlying tech in our new SRAM RED® eTap groupset such as wireless shifting, advanced battery power management and mechatronics technologies are all meant to serve one ultimate purpose, to facilitate the most intuitive and consistent shifting available. This shift logic is called eTap. Right lever makes it harder, left lever makes it easier, both levers shift the front derailleur. Simple, unmistakable, and intuitive.

[happycampyer]

<snip>All of the underlying tech in our new SRAM RED® eTap groupset such as wireless shifting, advanced battery power management and mechatronics technologies are all meant to serve one ultimate purpose, to facilitate the most intuitive and consistent shifting available. This shift logic is called eTap. Right lever makes it harder, left lever makes it easier, both levers shift the front derailleur. Simple, unmistakable, and intuitive.Advanced battery power management my ass. I refuse to buy extra batteries simply because the power management is unreliable and the battery tabs break. I'm surprised that I'm the only one whose derailleur drains its battery completely in less than a week, just hanging in the rack. Hopefully my third front derailleur is a charm...

[huck*this]

Advanced battery power management my ass. I refuse to buy extra batteries simply because the power management is unreliable and the battery tabs break. I'm surprised that I'm the only one whose derailleur drains its battery completely in less than a week, just hanging in the rack. Hopefully my third front derailleur is a charm...

^^this made my decision oh so much easier^^ going to stick with SR. On the aesthetic side which didn't really weigh on my decision, SR is leaps and bounds sexier than etap. Maybe revisit this once Campy comes out with the wireless solution. With that said. Who wants some DA c35 wheels. :)

[ORMojo]

Advanced battery power management my ass. I refuse to buy extra batteries simply because the power management is unreliable and the battery tabs break. I'm surprised that I'm the only one whose derailleur drains its battery completely in less than a week, just hanging in the rack. Hopefully my third front derailleur is a charm...

^^this made my decision oh so much easier^^ going to stick with SR. On the aesthetic side which didn't really weigh on my decision, SR is leaps and bounds sexier than etap. Maybe revisit this once Campy comes out with the wireless solution. With that said. Who wants some DA c35 wheels. :)

You'll base your decision on one instance, which appears, at least regarding the battery drain, to be isolated? I know some here reported early trouble with breaking battery tabs, but I haven't seen any reports of that, here or elsewhere, recently. I've seen zero reports anywhere about an etap battery draining in one week, and lots of reports about the great battery life (and, of course, the ease of carrying a spare battery). And in my heavy ~6 months of use on my etap group, I've had zero experience with either problem.

[Imaking20]

I'm confused.....you say the shifting is inferior yet that you'd build a bike with it if you were going electronic. :confused: Isn't that a bit of a contradiction?

I don't think it's a contradiction. I'm not likely to go electronic again in the near future because I don't think it's necessary. I don't believe electronic shifts any better than its mechanical counterparts. I was just trying to give more perspective than "mechanical is better than electronic" - because that's not the question OP is asking.

[Clean39T]

I'm giving eTap a try on my next build because it'll be on a bike with internal routing that was already set up with a SRAM eTap-finish chainset and because Rob gave me a helluva deal on the setup. If I wasn't giving carbon a whirl again (and internally routed carbon at that), I'd have no reason to try it. At fullish new-kit pricing, there's no way I'd choose eTap over SR Mech for a frame where good old external routing was an option. I also agree that it generally looks garish on skinny-tubed bikes (as does Di2) - and I generally hate the look of skinny wires poking out here and there, the junction boxes, etc., so Di2 has been off my radar. But again, I'm trying a carbon gravel/cross rig out, and it came with Di2, so I'm going to run that for a bit until I see what I think of the bike overall. Depending on which direction I go, it could be swapped out for SRAM mech and mech brakes, or the whole thing may go in favor of something ti with canti's and light wheels. Adventures in bike testing continue :banana: - wouldn't have it any other way :D

[happycampyer]

You'll base your decision on one instance, which appears, at least regarding the battery drain, to be isolated? I know some here reported early trouble with breaking battery tabs, but I haven't seen any reports of that, here or elsewhere, recently. I've seen zero reports anywhere about an etap battery draining in one week, and lots of reports about the great battery life (and, of course, the ease of carrying a spare battery). And in my heavy ~6 months of use on my etap group, I've had zero experience with either problem.Doing some searching on the internet, it appears someone else here had the same issue:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=209277

I guess I'm not the only one. It's true that it doesn't appear to be a common problem.

[pdmtong]

Doing some searching on the internet, it appears someone else here had the same issue:

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=209277

I guess I'm not the only one. It's true that it doesn't appear to be a common problem.

if it was common, we would hear about it more. presumably the complaints trickle back and the factory adjusts to resolve. presumably.

one friend needed several adjustments to the eTAP FD mounting to prevent the chain from being thrown outside.

IMHO the OP should try it before deciding.

I have tried eTAP and Di2 on real rides - both work great. the eTAP paradigm takes about 100 yards to get used to...

EPS is not in the discussion for me due to price.

[simonov]

You'll base your decision on one instance, which appears, at least regarding the battery drain, to be isolated? I know some here reported early trouble with breaking battery tabs, but I haven't seen any reports of that, here or elsewhere, recently. I've seen zero reports anywhere about an etap battery draining in one week, and lots of reports about the great battery life (and, of course, the ease of carrying a spare battery). And in my heavy ~6 months of use on my etap group, I've had zero experience with either problem.

I'm a year and a half in with zero problems. Of the dozen or so friends who have eTap only one has had the tab issue. Mine has been set and forget with nothing more than a check of the batteries before I head out and if the lights aren't green, I swap in a spare and throw the partially drained one on the charger for next time. In that same period of time almost every one of my other bikes has been re-cabled once or twice. eTap (and other electronic groups) are as low maintenance as it gets.

[oldpotatoe]

^^this made my decision oh so much easier^^ going to stick with SR. On the aesthetic side which didn't really weigh on my decision, SR is leaps and bounds sexier than etap. Maybe revisit this once Campy comes out with the wireless solution. With that said. Who wants some DA c35 wheels. :)

Huzzah!!:)

[54ny77]

i am in process of building up an eye-talian bike and desperately wanted to like the new sr groupset, but each time i looked at the crank i felt the urge to vomit.

the designer must be in their 20's and grew up on a steady diet of transformer cartoons.

:p

^^this made my decision oh so much easier^^ going to stick with SR. On the aesthetic side which didn't really weigh on my decision, SR is leaps and bounds sexier than etap. Maybe revisit this once Campy comes out with the wireless solution. With that said. Who wants some DA c35 wheels. :)

[stien]

I went from 6870 to Etap. Sold my Etap when in a race I noticed that the guy in front of me had mechanical 9100 and was getting faster shifts than me. I'm back at 6870 because I had extra bits but am mechanical curious with this new batch.

[oldpotatoe]

i am in process of building up an eye-talian bike and desperately wanted to like the new sr groupset, but each time i looked at the crank i felt the urge to vomit.

the designer must be in their 20's and grew up on a steady diet of transformer cartoons.

:p

Yer kidding, right? At least all Campag 4 arm crank chainrings are cross compatible..shimano? Not so fast. BUT if ya don't like it, get this..easy and not expensive.

[huck*this]

i am in process of building up an eye-talian bike
:p

Depends what the bike is. Cipo all day it will look fitting. Gios, nah.

I am in no way down playing etap. I'm sure it is a great system, I don't doubt that for a 2nd. But like Isaac I too am in the tech field and want to be away from the button pushing, firmware updates, blinky LED lights thingy. I will be revisiting this again I'm sure when the group needs a recable. As the tech is intriguing for sure.

[oldpotatoe]

if it was common, we would hear about it more. presumably the complaints trickle back and the factory adjusts to resolve. presumably.

one friend needed several adjustments to the eTAP FD mounting to prevent the chain from being thrown outside.

IMHO the OP should try it before deciding.

I have tried eTAP and Di2 on real rides - both work great. the eTAP paradigm takes about 100 yards to get used to...

EPS is not in the discussion for me due to price.

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=215011

[54ny77]

not that super record, i'm talking the new new stuff. the monstrosity blob of whatever it is thing.

this:

https://ssli.ebayimg.com/images/g/LagAAOSw~HBaGt~0/s-l1600.jpg

the new da spider also got beaten with the ugly stick treatment.

i'm out as a buyer for any of that for a loooong time. yeah, i'm sure it all works superbly, but....aesthetically not my cuppa joe.

etap to me means i can use whatever crank and brakes tickle my fancy. i wish the levers were less "branded" but that's an easy sanding & clearcoat job.

it's bike parts we're talking here though, not curing cancer. so it's all in lighthearted fun.

Yer kidding, right? At least all Campag 4 arm crank chainrings are cross compatible..shimano? Not so fast. BUT if ya don't like it, get this..easy and not expensive.

[glepore]

etap to me means i can use whatever crank and brakes tickle my fancy. i wish the levers were less "branded" but that's an easy sanding & clearcoat job.


So long as your preferred brakes aren't post 7800 Shimano. And yeah, I'm going to sand and clear the levers, and maybe the Red crank.

One thing for the op to consider is that some folks have had interference issues with the fd limit screw and the crank. May be an issue with the frame in question. Fixable by swapping the screw.

[R3awak3n]

Depends what the bike is. Cipo all day it will look fitting. Gios, nah.

I am in no way down playing etap. I'm sure it is a great system, I don't doubt that for a 2nd. But like Isaac I too am in the tech field and want to be away from the button pushing, firmware updates, blinky LED lights thingy. I will be revisiting this again I'm sure when the group needs a recable. As the tech is intriguing for sure.

0 firmware updates so far

[choke]

not that super record, i'm talking the new new stuff. the monstrosity blob of whatever it is thing.

this:

the new da spider also got beaten with the ugly stick treatment.

i'm out as a buyer for any of that for a loooong time. yeah, i'm sure it all works superbly, but....aesthetically not my cuppa joe.I agree....the word that came to mind when I first saw that design was 'hideous' and I still feel that way. It's hard to believe that the same company that made the C-Record crank came up with that....and I'm an unabashed Campy fan.

I think Peter meant that you could substitute the old style crank for the hideous one.

[oldpotatoe]

I agree....the word that came to mind when I first saw that design was 'hideous' and I still feel that way. It's hard to believe that the same company that made the C-Record crank came up with that....and I'm an unabashed Campy fan.

I think Peter meant that you could substitute the old style crank for the hideous one.

Yup, altho the new one is not 'hideous' to me at all..that giganto chunk of aluminum from shimano, is..altho one crank, many CR options(standard, mid compact, compact) is a great idea, IMHO, of course---'pal'

[msngr]

Late to the party, so I am sure I don't have anything new to add, except another vote for eTap as a game-changer. I originally thought the shifting system (interface? interaction?) was a gimmick -something to differentiate the groupset from the others (I hated Doubletap or whatever that was called). But after using it, I realized it made perfect sense, given that the shifters are untethered to a particular component. It was truly intuitive from the first ride, and makes me annoyed when I ride my non-eTap bikes.

Add to that ease of setup, no wires or junction box to snag, and the looks, and I do not plan on going back. In fact, I am now looking to buy an eTap specific frameset.

Agree though, that the comparative slowness of the shifting is a minor issue for me. I have also found that I am legit annoyed at the existence of my brake cables and housing now.

[Imaking20]

Add me to the list of people who had no issues with battery life on eTap. And it took a charge with no issue when I asked it to. I can't say either of those things regarding my experience with 9070...

[54ny77]

yeah ok fine....the 7800 isn't everyone's cuppa tea. but at least it's aluminum (silver)!

all the new "spiders" from any brand seem to lock you into proprietary rings. gone are the days when you could buy aftermarket rings to work with a traditional 5 spider arm.

nice thing is.....all of these are 1st world problems. i have enough 10 spd parts hoarding to last pretty much the rest of my lifetime and don't *need* anything. but the etap thing really tickled the fancy after i tried it.

Yup, altho the new one is not 'hideous' to me at all..that giganto chunk of aluminum from shimano, is..altho one crank, many CR options(standard, mid compact, compact) is a great idea, IMHO, of course---'pal'

[FlashUNC]

yeah ok fine....the 7800 isn't everyone's cuppa tea. but at least it's aluminum (silver)!

all the new "spiders" from any brand seem to lock you into proprietary rings. gone are the days when you could buy aftermarket rings to work with a traditional 5 spider arm.

nice thing is.....all of these are 1st world problems. i have enough 10 spd parts hoarding to last pretty much the rest of my lifetime and don't *need* anything. but the etap thing really tickled the fancy after i tried it.

Forget 7800, 9100 is an abomination.

If Shimano keeps insisting on making alloy cranks, the least they could is not ano them to try to pretend they're carbon.

[54ny77]

haven't ridden 9100. have a sweet nos 7900 compact crank that i've been hoarding.

that'll be my upgrade one day....which means i'm about 10 years behind the curve....

Forget 7800, 9100 is an abomination.

If Shimano keeps insisting on making alloy cranks, the least they could is not ano them to try to pretend they're carbon.

[pdmtong]

haven't ridden 9100. have a sweet nos 7900 compact crank that i've been hoarding.

that'll be my upgrade one day....which means i'm about 10 years behind the curve....

Another 7900 is the pinnacle of shimano design aesthetic worshiper!

[huck*this]

The good thing about the new 4 arm crank aside from the awesome Carbon weave is that all rings can just be swapped onto the same crank arms. 53/52/50.

Bravo to Campy on this aspect for sure!