knee issues in the cold?

[AngryScientist]

for the last few years, i develop some knee pain if i ride outdoors in the cold, let's say below 40F for more than a couple hours.

i'm certain my bike fit is OK, since i can ride for 8+ hours comfortably, no knee pain when it's warm.

i suspect that some muscles get cold and put more stress on my knees? i dont know, and i cant seem to isolate it to anything else specific. the pain is on the outside of my knee, more "inboard", and is more of an acute pain after a few hours riding, but not so bad that it prevents me from continuing to pedal.

any ideas?

[54ny77]

each year it gets worse for me. did a 3 day stretch of riding 2+ hours each day over turkey day holiday.

followed up each ride with a few advil.

i f'ing hate the cold.

[FlashUNC]

IT band?

I wear something covering my legs really in any weather below 60 degrees. My knees get creaky in the cold.

[AngryScientist]

IT band?

I wear something covering my legs really in any weather below 60 degrees. My knees get creaky in the cold.

now that you mention that, and i google a picture, it does seem like the pain i get is right at the top of the 90 degree bend here.

are you saying that your IT band gets tight also in the cold and/or - has that manifested in some knee pain?

http://i0.wp.com/www.rehab4runners.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/it-band-syndrome.jpg?resize=203%2C213

[azrider]

IT band?

I wear something covering my legs really in any weather below 60 degrees. My knees get creaky in the cold.

I've adopted this rule as well. I always had IT issues (I blame tight hammies) but no matter how much i stretched, massage, (even graston technique :eek:).....it always creeps back up in cold weather.

ymmv

[FlashUNC]

More a stretching/flexibility issue, and everything in my legs tends to get tight in the cold, so the IT band ends up paying the price for it.

Solution that's worked for me is knickers/tights/warmers as the temps drop, and lots of stretching/foam rollering.

[AngryScientist]

thanks guys. i'm going to try some more focused stretching and layering up a bit more before i ride outside next.

[54ny77]

fwiw, i have the warmest tights pearl izumi makes and still get the creaks and aches.

it would be interesting if someone would make a pair with a thin lycra or mesh flap at the knee joint to insert those hand or feet warmer things. i'd most certainly get a pair that offered that.

thanks guys. i'm going to try some more focused stretching and layering up a bit more before i ride outside next.

[OtayBW]

See, e.g.: https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=214286&highlight=flask

[jke.4132]

You might also try a Winter embrocation (https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/shop/winter-embrocation/product/EMB04XXXXXXXX) to help warm things up a bit.

[ripvanrando]

You might also try a Winter embrocation (https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/shop/winter-embrocation/product/EMB04XXXXXXXX) to help warm things up a bit.

Fall inebriation also works.

[Mzilliox]

I have knee pain that gets worse in winter. I broke my hand a bit over a year ago, and this cold season its starting to hurt again, more than it ever has before. i rekon theres some science to cold and pain and stuff.

[54ny77]

i like your way of thinking. :banana:

Fall inebriation also works.

[berserk87]

Keeping your knees as warm as you reasonably can help. I've been known to wear knee warmers when it's as warm as 70F.

Muscles and tendons are less pliable and probably do contract a bit due to the cold. Stretching off of the bike can help. It sounds stupid, but having some extra room around the knees in my tights helps too. If my tights are too restrictive, even that small bit of added pressure can irritate my knees. So I try to pull a bit on the fabric around the knees before a ride to give a bit more slack when my legs are in the bent position.

[paredown]

You might also try a Winter embrocation (https://www.rapha.cc/us/en_US/shop/winter-embrocation/product/EMB04XXXXXXXX) to help warm things up a bit.
Ah, yes--Belgian knee warmers...

I love the smell of wintergreen in the morning.

[Ken Robb]

I wore neoprene knee warmers when I played tennis on cool nights. They really helped me and I THINK they might also help you too.

[Rpoole8537]

I've done this for several years. My issue is different, but the knee warmers work very well for me. I have several pair of different weights.


IT band?

I wear something covering my legs really in any weather below 60 degrees. My knees get creaky in the cold.

[zmudshark]

I haven’t ridden without knee warmers of some sort below 60*F for a decade.

I am soft. Everything but my knees hurt.

[chuckroast]

Do you guys only experience this with cold weather late in the year (as compared to January or February)? I get knee pain late in the year sometimes but usually disappears after I take a Holiday season break. I should clarify this only happened when I previously lived in the Midwest. Here in Florida, forget about it...

[flydhest]

I love knickers. I wear them for all riding below 65. I have some thinner pairs and some thicker fleece ones. My Raphas have a great range of temp for just the reason of this thread. Keep them knees warm. Trust me, i am now old.

[AngryScientist]

thanks guys. it is sounding like this is fairly common.

[joosttx]

I think this is a common issue among cyclist because I remember reading an article about old school cycling rules and one of them was you always wear knee warmers if the temperature is below like 60F.

I experience the same thing but when I cover my knees up with tights or knee warmers I am fine.

[shovelhd]

I think this is a common issue among cyclist because I remember reading an article about old school cycling rules and one of them was you always wear knee warmers if the temperature is below like 60F.


Knees below 60, legs below 50. That's my rule and I'm sticking to it.

[joosttx]

Knees below 60, legs below 50. That's my rule and I'm sticking to it.

You are so old school!

[Tandem Rider]

You are so old school!

Heck, my rule is 5 degrees warmer, has been since the 70's, my knees are still pretty good, keep em' warm and stretched.

[AngryScientist]

and stretched.

how do you do that TR?

[shovelhd]

You are so old school!

No, I'm just old. :)

[verticaldoug]

I had an IT band issue on long runs a couple of years ago. I just worked on flexibility and some exercises to help loosen it. I no longer have issues.

If it really is your IT, the tightness is all in your butt/hip, and it just gets tight over the knee causing the pain.

[carpediemracing]

Knees below 60, legs below 50. That's my rule and I'm sticking to it.

I basically do that. For races subtract 10.

However... I am very, very aggressive in wearing booties and keeping my feet warm. Booties go on before I do knickers, so maybe 60-65 deg F. If my feet are cold it seems that my entire leg's worth of veins contract, making everything else cold. If my feet are warm then my knees seem much better.

I also am very very aggressive in keeping my torso warm. As soon as it's 60-65 deg I'm wearing at least a wind vest over long sleeve stuff. I wear pretty warm stuff once it drops into the 40s, like a jacket and baselayer to start. Windproof is key for me, I'd rather sweat behind a barrier than have the wind carry heat energy away from me. Again, keeping core temps high means that my extremities can get good blood flow. I'm usually core-hot when I finish a ride or a race, even if my legs feel a bit chilly to the touch.

For embrocation I find that bringing blood to the surface (which is what they all do) ends up making me colder, not hotter, unless I cover said embrocation. So I'll do heat rub on my legs right up until about 75-80 deg, and under knickers or tights. I generally won't put it on bare skin when it's cold because it simply accelerates dumping heat energy. I'll do a non-heat version (aka Vaseline).

In wet or high humidity embrocation multiplies heat loss. I avoid it 1000% when it's wet out. I also do the -10 rule to avoid carrying around heavy wet cold clothing. Vaseline as a default, even under clothing, because of heat loss.

[rwsaunders]

AS....I’ve got three different weight versions of bib knickers that really help to keep things warm in the knee department and you can’t beat a pair of DeFeet Kneekers (knee warmers) in a pinch.

[bobswire]

AS....I’ve got three different weight versions of bib knickers that really help to keep things warm in the knee department and you can’t beat a pair of DeFeet Kneekers (knee warmers) in a pinch.

In fact they have these on sale at WesternBikeWorks. $17.59 https://www.westernbikeworks.com/product/defeet-kneekers?adl=1&gclid=CjwKCAiApJnRBRBlEiwAPTgmxDLJ1KSMRtjHeB6TCGEF iKVEK3_RO6_vBAyURUOLx_sifYaemAbqPxoCus8QAvD_BwE

[azrider]

Knees below 60, legs below 50. That's my rule and I'm sticking to it.

I remember seeing Chris Horner training in San Diego and he was full legs at 70*..........:p

[shinomaster]

Fall inebriation also works.

and a foam roller.

[pdmtong]

AS....I’ve got three different weight versions of bib knickers that really help to keep things warm in the knee department and you can’t beat a pair of DeFeet Kneekers (knee warmers) in a pinch.

same here...multiple weight of 3/4 knickers.

I use the rapha merino or classic knee if I know its going to warm enough for removal later in the ride.

zero knee issues.

[mattnes17]

Light stretching pre-ride for relaxation and blood flow has always helped me. In conjunction with neoprene ski tights and good coverage elsewhere, I find i can avoid tightening up in my back and legs and my knees are squeak free.

Ski tights help a lot with really cold and windy days when the cold cuts right thru other layers.

[carpediemracing]

Another note.

Knee warmers (nice fleece type) with regular shorts (wind goes right through) isn't really logical. There are thermal shorts that work excellent with knee warmers.

I have yet to buy a set but I did buy a thermal skinsuit with the above in mind. Last couple years I don't race until May, I rarely ride outside, so no need for any cold weather stuff.

[CaptStash]

Clearly this is age related Nick. I suggest you follow Merlin's (the wizard, not the bike builder's) example and youthen instead of aging. I've heard it works great (if you're a wizard anyway). Otherwise, things are gonna' hurt. Lots of things. Aging ain't for the timid. :beer:

CaptStash....

[makoti]

I think this is a common issue among cyclist because I remember reading an article about old school cycling rules and one of them was you always wear knee warmers if the temperature is below like 60F.


That's what I was told years ago, and it has worked as a good rule of thumb for me. Below 60, cover them up.

[batman1425]

Ive suffered from chronic IT band problems for the last 5 years. For me, religious use of the foam roller and tennis ball, pre and post ride, and increaseing warmth protection for the knees starting at 60degF. Sounds crasy to some to wear knee warmers at 60degF but blood supply to medial and lateral sides of the knee is poor and the body has a hard time keeping it warm. The cold causes tissues to constrict which further impares blood flow and can reduce flexibility which can result tissues rubbing together that shouldn't. Then you get irritation, inflammation, and pain.

Edit - I see the 60deg rule is in good use! glad I'm not the only one.

[rwsaunders]

Another note.

Knee warmers (nice fleece type) with regular shorts (wind goes right through) isn't really logical. There are thermal shorts that work excellent with knee warmers.

I have a pair of thermal bibs that I purchased a few years back never thinking that I would use them that much, but I do. They pair very nicely with knee warmers but the only bad part is that when the thermal bibs get the call, I know that Old Man Winter is right around the corner.

[Tandem Rider]

how do you do that TR?

I just stretch the main muscle groups and the IT band pretty regularly. Hamstrings by lying on the floor, 1 leg up a doorway.
Quads by lying face down and pulling my foot up towards my buttocks.
Calves by standing in the doorway, foot angled up the doorjamb heel on the floor, lean forward.
IT either with a roller or if I don't have it, cross my legs at the ankles, standing, lean forward in the old school hamstring stretch, and then switch direction of cross.
I do this pretty religiously when I'm riding frequently, not too long of a routine so I tend to actually do it rather than blow it off.

[AngryScientist]

I just stretch the main muscle groups and the IT band pretty regularly. Hamstrings by lying on the floor, 1 leg up a doorway.
Quads by lying face down and pulling my foot up towards my buttocks.
Calves by standing in the doorway, foot angled up the doorjamb heel on the floor, lean forward.
IT either with a roller or if I don't have it, cross my legs at the ankles, standing, lean forward in the old school hamstring stretch, and then switch direction of cross.
I do this pretty religiously when I'm riding frequently, not too long of a routine so I tend to actually do it rather than blow it off.

thanks. i'm going to incorporate some similar regular stretching to my daily routine.

[pdmtong]

Thermal bibs are a luxury piece to have. There certainly are days in the spring and fall where mine come out and they are the perfect piece.

It's rare I would pair the thermal bib with knee warmers over just wearing my lighter weight 3/4

I actually have four 3/4
- mavic, lots of thermal in the body but less in the knee downward.
- rapha cx, lighter weight full thermal roubiax
- rapha classic, heavier weight thermal roubiax
- capo LE, heavier weight thermal roubiax with water and wind blocking panels on the front.

This is california so YMMV. I only wear full bib tights if it is raining. and that is mainly to keep the filth off me more than for warmth.

nick, try a merino knee warmer. doesn't have to be rapha although I can say those are nice. the temp range of the wool and the lightness/packability make these a great choice for varying conditions over the more traditional lycra/thermal roubaix style