Another OT car question: "third car" small SUV?

[mhespenheide]

I owned a sequence of Subarus for my first four cars. A '86 wagon, then a series of '96-'99 Outback wagons. All in manual, all the smaller 2.2L engine, all bought with relatively high mileage and run up to 200-210k before selling. I've lived in WY, CA, AZ, UT and WA during those time periods. I always liked the Subaru wagons as the perfect compromise of mpg, hauling capacity, driving, etc. I drove a lot of dirt roads to get to trailheads for backpacking and photographs. There were only a handful of times that I felt like I needed more capability than the Subaru; I drove them a lot of places where I got raised eyebrows from SUV drivers, but taking it slowly and having a sense of exactly where each wheel was got me to a lot of places.

A couple of years ago, my parents offered me their Toyota Sienna minivan. It was great for using to car-camp in the rain in WA, and is great for road trips now that I'm in central CA. My wife is happy commuting in her Prius. I have no plans to change either of those vehicles. But now I'm getting increasingly twitchy to buy a third vehicle to get back out onto the dirt roads of the West. I'm a high school teacher, and enjoy heading out to the Mojave/Death Valley/Southern Utah during breaks, and I miss the access that the Subarus had. I don't expect I'll ever be rack-crawling; at least not without renting a Jeep for a one-off thing.

If I could find a '96-'99 Outback wagon with a 2.2L engine and manual transmission (which I know I can get 28-30mpg highway, from prior experience), anywhere below 130k miles, I'd probably snap it up. I would predict a price somewhere in the neighborhood of $4000-$5000 for one in good condition.

What other small SUVs should I be looking at that would balance low initial buy-in cost, low gas costs through good mpg, good mechanical reliability, and moderate repair bills to keep running? I imagine I'm looking at the Honda CR-V and the Toyota Rav-4; possibly a Nissan X-Terra? I have no experience with any of those models. I will confess that I'm biased against older American vehicles bought used, unless there are some standouts that I don't know about.

Thanks for any suggestions, and particularly specific models and/or years to look for or avoid.

[rnhood]

If you're buying high mileage used then I'd stick with the models you have already mentioned. But I would try to find one with less than 75k miles.

Only thing, I just don't understand why anyone would want manual transmission but, that's just me. Purely a preference thing.

[nmrt]

funny, i think exactly the opposite. why would anyone want an automatic?!
:)

If you're buying high mileage used then I'd stick with the models you have already mentioned. But I would try to find one with less than 75k miles.

Only thing, I just don't understand why anyone would want manual transmission but, that's just me. Purely a preference thing.

[AngryScientist]

for the type of dirt road exploring you're talking about, subarus are going to outshine any of those mini SUVs. they are all FWD based vehicles that have the ability to divert some power to the rear wheels. they are designed primarily to offer some traction, and provide some confidence in snow, on blacktop, and are really not designed to actually be taken off road.

that's not to say they wont work, but the subaru will do what you're talking about better.

stepping up to a RWD based, frame SUV will give you more offroad chops, for sure, but come at the expense of mpg and road manners. the center of gravity of an xterra is going to be a lot higher than an outback.

so yea, i'd look for another subie!

[stien]

Lifted van!

[ceolwulf]

The Xterra is a truck-based SUV and will not get very good fuel economy. Good off road though. Manual is available but scarce. Automatic with the non-supercharged engine is pretty sluggish.

I agree on sticking with Subaru if you like them and know they work for you. Don't forget the Forester as well while you're looking at Outbacks.

[JAGI410]

Manual Subarus are easy to find. Low mileage manual Subarus are not. But I think you’re looking for the right thing, especially if you include a Forester in the search.

If looking new, that Mazda CX-5 comes in a manual and looks quite capable with decent mpg.

[cmbicycles]

The CRV is just a suv built on an accord chassis (although more like a footprint since they are all unibody), and I don't think it would be as capable as a subie.
My 02 outback would fit all but the manual part, it gets around 22-24 mpg overall depending on if I have the bike carriers on top or not and although it's not my cup of tea to drive it's pretty good mix of utility and reliability. I might like it more if it were a manual, or had heated mirrors (that's what I miss most from the 98 that it replaced).

[mhespenheide]

If you're buying high mileage used then I'd stick with the models you have already mentioned. But I would try to find one with less than 75k miles.

Only thing, I just don't understand why anyone would want manual transmission but, that's just me. Purely a preference thing.

For a car that isn't a daily driver, [1] I enjoy it and the greater connection to the act of driving -- and I don't, blessedly, deal with traffic on a daily basis and [2] I know from personal experience that that specific combination can get ~28mpg highway. The automatics aren't that good.

[mhespenheide]

Lifted van!

In an ideal world, I'd flip have something smaller for normal driving and a lifted 4wd van for adventuring -- as long as I could find something that wasn't a complete pig on mpg.

I always thought the Subaru wagons were a great combination of daily driver and mini-SUV/pickup; maybe that's what I need to stick with, even if it's not a daily driver.

[p nut]

For that, I’d definitely get a 97-00 4Runner. Lots of aftermarket upgrades available. Reliable platform. Plenty capable. 5-sp available. Rare but out there.

[mhespenheide]

Manual Subarus are easy to find. Low mileage manual Subarus are not. But I think you’re looking for the right thing, especially if you include a Forester in the search.



Whoof! Manuals are not easy to find around here, or at least not for sale. Seems like everybody in CA wanted the automatic, or maybe they just don't want to sell theirs.

And I'll expand to Foresters. I probably can't afford a newer one, but I strongly prefer the newer Forester body style to the one from the early 00's.

[mhespenheide]

For that, I’d definitely get a 97-00 4Runner. Lots of aftermarket upgrades available. Reliable platform. Plenty capable. 5-sp available. Rare but out there.

Cool, thanks.

[likebikes]

xterra is great if you want to get 17mpg on a good day.

[Louis]

Unimog - doesn't look too big to me:

https://www.designboom.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/mercedes-benz-unimog-4x4-designboom-newsletter.jpg

[schwa86]

Manual Subarus are easy to find. Low mileage manual Subarus are not. But I think you’re looking for the right thing, especially if you include a Forester in the search.

If looking new, that Mazda CX-5 comes in a manual and looks quite capable with decent mpg.

I just bought a relatively low mileage CX-5. I have owned a Forester, which died at an early age (at least for someone that likes to drive cars into the ground) and we still have a V6 RAV4. I drove a bunch of test cars, thought the Mazda handled the best of any of them (all 4 cyl, all AWD) and had more pep (though it doesn't come close to the V6). I have been driving it about 2 months And like it, but in fairness haven't put it through much in the way of off roads testing/winter weather yet. It's nice inside, but smaller than RAV4 or Forester. Did not look at the manual as the other driver in the family was not so excited about that option.