Socal locals- Rose Bowl tue/thurs Ride shutdown Dec 7

[pasadena]

Don't know how to edit the title but it should be "Rose Bowl tue/thur Ride"

One of my friends lives very close to the Bowl and mentioned the city plans to put a stop sign at every "corner" of the loop to stop the tue/thurs rides.

I was surprised because they had just changed the road markings in recent years.

If all goes to plan, STOP signs will be in place first quarter of 2018- just in time for the time change, and no more rides.

I'm all for a ONE WAY loop, fully segregating cycling and walk areas with one lane of auto traffic.
Works for Griffith Park Observatory, would be perfect for the Bowl.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the current tension, walkers and cyclists.
However, the only ones targeted are cyclists.

http://www.bikesgv.org/news/pasadena-proposes-stops-to-rose-bowl-loop-use

[beeatnik]

Such bad urban planning.

RIP World Famous Rose Bowl Ride.

[pasadena]

Pasadena. The most anti-liberal, liberal city in LA.

[beeatnik]

J, I'll say this. Doing the ride, knowing the ride, loving the ride, I'm not as conflicted as I thought I'd be about its imminent demise. I can't be, not in good conscience. When my fitness wasn't as impressive, I'd find myself in the middle of the pack, riding in terror. Terrified for my own safety and the safety of the pedestrians. In fact, I'd discourage friends and associates from using the Bowl on Tuesdays and Thursdays between 6 and 7:15. The last few years I've been less, um, concerned but it's due to selfishness because I know I can avoid trouble. And, yet, I witnessed a 12-year-old girl collide with a rider at 35mph. The fact that no one was critically injured was/is a miracle.

In any case, you're right. Vehicular traffic should be managed more responsibly. The true solution would be to close the whole loop off during peak hours but that would inconvenience a few dozen drivers who reside in some of the world's most valuable real estate

[hellvetica]

roadies cannot have nice things.

[vqdriver]

meh.
it's a RECREATIONAL PATH. not anyone's racetrack.

i stopped joining that ride specifically due to the douchbaggery i witnessed repeatedly. the mob mentality rears its head whenever they have to slow down for any other user on the loop. if you're out there any other day of the week there's still plenty of cyclists but with a decidedly greater sense of calm. individually, everyone gets along fine. call it the 'rose bowl ride' and suddenly it's game on and kids and dogs better gtf out daway.
worst i saw was a vw wagon pulling into lot K, had to wait for joggers to clear the driveway. this car had 2 bikes on the roof and an old school uscf sticker on the rear window. we turned the sw corner and all hell broke loose with profanity and fingers flying. joggers and dog walkers stood around watching us make complete asses of ourselves. so embarassed.

admittedly, i haven't been with em since they repainted the path so maybe they've reigned things in. but judging from the fact that the city's still trying to manage this, it sure doesn't sound like it.

jerks are jerks. i don't care if they're on a bike.

[beeatnik]

vq, it's changed since 1953.

but, not really.

[pasadena]

Bee,
Totally share your mixed feelings.

Unfortunately the few bad apples, and there are always a few in there, really do ruin it for the pack. There should, imo, be more aggressive self-policing amongst the pack but it's an unofficial, offical ride so who will do that?

I've seen pedestrians put rocks in the road, and take out riders. Pedestrians causing accidents... one time a jogger passed out in the heat and we stopped to help him. Other people came over and said we hit him!

There is some real hostility and lack of awareness that contributes to the problem.

I think the one-way road is the best solution. Not sure why it never got enough traction to happen.

[pasadena]

meh.
it's a RECREATIONAL PATH. not anyone's racetrack.



jerks are jerks. i don't care if they're on a bike.

It's a road, not a recreational path.

If your racetrack and jerk comments were true, no one would be allowed access.

[tylercheung]

I never did Tuesday/thursday rides - although have been running my 3k around the Bowl during those rides. But I don't like competitive rides. I liked the quirky saturday/sunday AM rides..interesting personalities, like this woman w/ the pink "down arrow" socks, and also an older, hunched-over grizzled gent riding flat bars, both of whom would leave me in the dust....


Also, thanks for alerting me to this blog...guess it's better for me to follow this than the Bike Portland blog since I don't like anywhere near Portland!

[srcarter]

That ride was a one and done for me (many many years ago). Completely terrifying variations of skill level. At the time, the cyclists were good about policing themselves regarding going over the pedestrian line, but it always felt like a crash was imminent.

[54ny77]

ditto. did it a bunch of times in the 80's, once on a tandem of all things.

seriously fast in those days, but you're right things were "enforced." can only imagine it's gotten even faster if not more insane and uncontrolled since everyone's a super star.

That ride was a one and done for me (many many years ago). Completely terrifying variations of skill level. At the time, the cyclists were good about policing themselves regarding going over the pedestrian line, but it always felt like a crash was imminent.

[cgolvin]

Don't know how to edit the title but it should be "Rose Bowl tue/thur Ride"

If you hit "Edit" and then "Go advanced" it will present you the opportunity to edit the title as well as the post body.

I've never done the ride but for me one unmanaged aggro rider is all it takes to make me choose another ride.

[pasadena]

If you hit "Edit" and then "Go advanced" it will present you the opportunity to edit the title as well as the post body.

I've never done the ride but for me one unmanaged aggro rider is all it takes to make me choose another ride.

thanks!

[beeatnik]

ditto. did it a bunch of times in the 80's, once on a tandem of all things.

seriously fast in those days, but you're right things were "enforced." can only imagine it's gotten even faster if not more insane and uncontrolled since everyone's a super star.

Ride participation (125 plus riders) peaked in 2015, along with the average speeds. According to Strava, the average for ten 3.1 mile laps was 27mph (with some days in the 28s). In order to make the ride safer and more manageable, we decided to split it into two groups. The fast group would start with 20-30 riders, whittle down to under 10 with the average speed around 25.5 mph; the big group (75 plus riders) would average around 25mph. The experiment lasted nearly 2 seasons. Tough to say if the ride became safer; there seemed to be less crashes within the pack (3 or 4). However, two pedestrians were struck (neither the fault of the rider or pack). But it's always easier to demonize the peloton:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154111247298107&set=p.10154111247298107&type=3&theater

At its peak. Notice the white line. All cyclist/ped collisions have occurred outside of it.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8730/16806290042_3eeb04993f_b.jpg

[srcarter]

If you hit "Edit" and then "Go advanced" it will present you the opportunity to edit the title as well as the post body.


I was not the intended recipient of your advice, but that was helpful. I couldn't figure that out for my classified thread. Really not the most obvious interface.
Thanks!

[pasadena]

There was a time when a man was walking on the line-you could see by his body posture, he was intent on walking on the line as the pack passed by.

As the pack called out "on the right" or "walker right" or pointing - the man thought they were yelling at him. I could hear him say, "No! I'm staying right here!"

Total misunderstanding of what the situation is.

There is a lot of misunderstanding which could be cleared up but as with many things, people dig trenches and refuse to give.

I guess we should know that no matter who is at fault, people will say "the cyclists hit that person."

Of course when a drunk driver crosses the road at the Bowl and plows a cyclist, or the random illegal parking or u-turns on the road or ped lane without looking... cars almost hitting or hitting peds and cyclists... speeding, dangerous driving...there is never a call to modify the behavior or road.

But two hours a week during daylight savings is enough to spend hundreds of thousands on traffic modification?
This is literally two hours a week that the pack goes around.

I also don't want to minimize the accidents that happen, nor the victims of those accidents. There are some knucklehead cyclists that have no business being in a pack.

But, I also feel the danger has been overblown by people with a vendetta.

I don't know Bee, maybe you're right. it's a great workout and lovely to see all the regulars year in and out. But with bad apples and such, maybe we don't deserve those things...





Ride participation (125 plus riders) peaked in 2015, along with the average speeds. According to Strava, the average for ten 3.1 mile laps was 27mph (with some days in the 28s). In order to make the ride safer and more manageable, we decided to split it into two groups. The fast group would start with 20-30 riders, whittle down to under 10 with the average speed around 25.5 mph; the big group (75 plus riders) would average around 25mph. The experiment lasted nearly 2 seasons. Tough to say if the ride became safer; there seemed to be less crashes within the pack (3 or 4). However, two pedestrians were struck (neither the fault of the rider or pack). But it's always easier to demonize the peloton:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154111247298107&set=p.10154111247298107&type=3&theater

At its peak. Notice the white line. All cyclist/ped collisions have occurred outside of it.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8730/16806290042_3eeb04993f_b.jpg

[weisan]

I don't live there nor have I done this ride before. But just as a casual observer, looking at the picture with the bunch riding at fast speed next to the walkers/runners....the contrast is stark. There's not enough of common interests/grounds to establish this coexistence. It seems to me...the ride exists today by sheer will and insistence of my right of way, not enough of a "serving the general public" element in it, that's not a good long-term solution and only encourages animosity from within the non-cycling community.

Just my opinion as an outsider.

[beeatnik]

I don't live there nor have I done this ride before. But just as a casual observer, looking at the picture with the bunch riding at fast speed next to the walkers/runners....the contrast is stark. There's not enough of common interests/grounds to establish this coexistence. It seems to me...the ride exists today by sheer will and insistence of my right of way, not enough of a "serving the general public" element in it, that's not a good long-term solution and only encourages animosity from within the non-cycling community.

Just my opinion as an outsider.

Weisan, just a data point. The ride existed before the loop was used by runners/walkers. According to those knowledgeable, the ride began in the 40s and runners didn't arrive until the 80s. Part of that may be due to the road not being designed for pedestrians as there are no sidewalks. Also, you may notice that most users are walking with the flow of traffic which is a violation of the California Vehicle Code on that road; until the pedestrian lane was widened about a decade ago, there were painted signs in the lane which directed pedestrians to run/walk counterclockwise.

[weisan]

Bee pal, thanks for the additional background info.

That's too bad. Everyone lose, there are no winners here.

[cadence90]

Weisan, just a data point. The ride existed before the loop was used by runners/walkers. According to those knowledgeable, the ride began in the 40s and runners didn't arrive until the 80s. Part of that may be due to the road not being designed for pedestrians as there are no sidewalks. Also, you may notice that most users are walking with the flow of traffic which is a violation of the California Vehicle Code on that road; until the pedestrian lane was widened about a decade ago, there were painted signs in the lane which directed pedestrians to run/walk counterclockwise.

I am not familiar with this ride, but in the article linked in post #1 it seems that
In 2007 conflicts with the historic Rose Bowl Ride - a fast training group ride every Tuesday and Thursday evening during daylight savings time - prompted City staff to re-examine the design and layout of the loop. The City subsequently tried to separate user groups by striping a buffer zone between people on the walking zone and the inside (clockwise) travel lane, and encouraging people on foot to walk against the flow of traffic (see image below). A Historic Rose Bowl Ride working group was also created to foster and encourage safer cycling among the ride participants.

http://www.bikesgv.org/uploads/1/0/3/4/10345694/editor/screen-shot-2017-11-20-at-10-17-01-pm.png?1511250680



Apparently this "buffer zone" was unsuccessful and so
A few years later in 2010, citing a lack of compliance of the buffer zone and signage instructing counterclockwise pedestrian use consistent with state law for persons walking in a roadway, City Transportation officials rolled out an updated design that sanctioned 2-way pedestrian use, eliminated the striped buffer zone, and installed flex posts (see below), a configuration that remains in place to this day.

http://www.bikesgv.org/uploads/1/0/3/4/10345694/editor/screen-shot-2017-11-20-at-10-17-31-pm.png?1511250675

Is it not still this way today, including allowing 2-way pedestrian traffic?

I cannot tell how wide the 2010+ "pedestrian zone" is in the image beeatnik posted above, but that asphalt sure doesn't look like it is painted a different color.
:confused:
.
.

[shovelhd]

I have never done this ride. I just wanted to point out that the longevity of an event may not have much meaning anymore these days when resources are strained across competing interests. We have lost many races out here because the other users have have had the will and the determination to defeat the long standing event. It may have nothing to do with bad apples and everything to do with power and influence.

[Uncle Jam's Army]

Having recently moved to Pasadena, this loop is dangerous irrespective of the Tues/Thurs rides. Too many joggers and walkers are simply inattentive to their surroundings when they decide to move over (and onto the road) to pass others.