Best Clincher Tires?

[orbea65]

I'm a tubie fan myself, but a buddy of mine is asking for a recommendation on the best clincher tire to get. It would be for both racing and training, and money isn't really an issue.
So what is the clincher equivalent to the Conti Competition tubular (ie. tough, fast, high quality)? Are some inner tubes better than others?

[swoop]

michelin pro race 2!

[znfdl]

vredenstein fortezza, not the tri-comp

[Matt Barkley]

veloflex pave - or michelin krylion 23 or 25mm :beer:

Micelin a1 tubes

[J.Greene]

michelin pro race 2!

I vote for Veloflex Pave's, but you buddy should follow the advice of swoop, he does it every weekend. Can't argue with experience.

JG

[Grant McLean]

I like the "Richard Sachs" special edition tires:

and they come both ways..

g

[dgauthier]

The veloflex pave is terrific, and my personal favorite, but it is not "tough". It doesn't flat, but it does wear quickly. Certainly fast and high quality, though.

The Michelin A1 Airstop butyl tubes are noticeably better than the rest. One caveat: about a year ago, Michelin changed suppliers for their tubes, and the revised samples sucked hard (holes in brand new tubes, sloppy black tar all over the valve stem, poor overall quality and consistency, sloppy folding, you name it). About 3 or 4 months ago, I was pleased to see Michelin changed back to the high quality tubes I had gotten used to. The old "bad" versions are in a box with a light blue background, IIRC, and the new "good" versions are in a box with the same artwork over a light grey background.

[davids]

I use both Veloflex Pave/Black (same tire, different sidewall colors) and the Michelin ProRace2. The Veloflex are light and supple, and wear fairly quickly. The Michelin are slightly heavier and softer, but more durable.

I've been thinking about trying a set of Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX, though. Any thought on these?

[swoop]

vittorias are great for racing (supple).. they get cut to shreds very quickly training.

[zap]

Conti is on a roll again.

The GP4000 are great along with Conti inner tubes.

[Kevan]

Termater...

There's no best, only preferred.

[znfdl]

Conti is on a roll again.

The GP4000 are great along with Conti inner tubes.

zap do you trust the new conti sidewalls?

[bironi]

I like the "Richard Sachs" special edition tires:

and they come both ways..

g

Grant do you like their clinchers better than the Michelin pro race 2? Where do you buy these?

Thanks much.

[orbea65]

Termater...

There's no best, only preferred.

I'm starting to realize that! :)

[BoulderGeek]

I get whatever foldies are 50% off at Performance.

Currently on Michelin's.

[orbea65]

Are Veloflex Corsa's better than the Pave's??

[Matt Barkley]

corsas are narrower than paves

[zap]

zap do you trust the new conti sidewalls?

Yes. So far the 4000 are holding up really well on the tandem and 'blade.

[Sandy]

zap do you trust the new conti sidewalls?

I have about 850 miles on my first set of 700 x 25 GP4000 tires. I have ridden 700 x 22 Veloflex Pave, Vittoria Open Corsa CX, Open Corsa EVO CX, Open Corsa EVO KX, Vredestein Fortezza Tri Comp, Continental GP 3000, all in 700x23 size. In addition, I recently tried the Michelin Pro2Race in 700 x 25 size.

I am 60 pounds heavier than you. I was recently using 115 f and 120 rear on the the 700 x 23 tires. I am presently using 95 f and 105 r on the GP 4000 tires. The GP 4000 tires are without a doubt, with no qualification thus far, the best tire, for me, that I have ever used. They ride much softer than any of the previously mentioned tires (700 x 23 or 22 with higher pressures), handle better, have a much better planted front end, and thus far have been very durable, with no punctures. In fact I see no cuts whatsoever on the front tire, and a few tiny cuts on the rear. If you try the GP4000 tires in the 700 x 25 size and don't like them, I will buy them from you at your cost.

Now to actually answer your question posed to Zip's spouse, Zap- The GP4000 tire is a completely new and different tire than the GP 3000 or the GP. I stopped using the others because of sidewall cutting issues. The new sidewall is completely different. I have great confidence in the sidewall.


:) Sidewall Serotta Sandy :)

[rpm]

Another resounding vote for the Conti 4000's, but in 700 x 25, not 700 x 23. The 25's are a little fatter than Pro Race 23's but a little slimmer than Pro Race 25's and fit fine under an Ouzo pro for,. They are light--they must be only a whisper over the weight of the 23's. And they are good--they have good sidewalls and the vectran in their casind gives them even better puncture resistance than kevlar belted tires, without the stiffness and weight of the kevlar belts. They are a quantum leap over the Conti 3000's. They also have better wet weather performance and cut/puncture resistance than do the Michelins.

I used to be a confirmed Michelin man, but these have won me over. I've had zero flats with them all season. I just switched out the rear for a new one for an upcoming century, but only because it had finally worn down past the wear indicators on the tread.

[Grant McLean]

Vittoria corsa cx clinchers will come in 700x25 for '07

yeah!

g

[Sandy]

Are Veloflex Corsa's better than the Pave's??

Corsa is a 700x20 and the Pave is a 700x22.



Sideways Sidewall Simple Sandy

[Sandy]

Vittoria corsa cx clinchers will come in 700x25 for '07

yeah!

g

I assume that will be a Vittoria Open Corsa EVO tire. I prefer the Vittoria Open Corsa KX tire to the Vittotia Open Pro EVO CX tire since the KX tire has a significantly thicker center tread (and a more aggressively designed sidewall). As I recall, the CX weigh 230 grams and the KX weigh 245 grams. The 15 grams are meaningless to me, and the thicker rubber should give added tire life and pucture protection.



Airhead Sandy

PS- I believe the GP4000 700x23 tires weigh 205 grams and the GP4000 700x25 tires weigh 215 grams. I weigh a whole lot of either.....

[onekgguy]

michelin pro race 2!

Ditto.

Kevin

[Archibald]

Any tubular.

:beer:

[Grant McLean]

I assume that will be a Vittoria Open Corsa EVO tire. I prefer the Vittoria Open Corsa KX tire to the Vittotia Open Pro EVO CX tire since the KX tire has a significantly thicker center tread (and a more aggressively designed sidewall). As I recall, the CX weigh 230 grams and the KX weigh 245 grams. The 15 grams are meaningless to me, and the thicker rubber should give added tire life and pucture protection.


Sandy,

That differs from Vittoria's info.
KX and CX are exactly the same weight, (230 grams)

The compound and sidewall are the same, only the tread pattern is different.

g

g

[Sandy]

I do recall seeing the 230 gram weight given on the Vittoria website for each of the tires, but believe it or not, I think that is probably an error. I have read numerous times in the past, on other websites, 230 for the CX and KS (slick), but 245 for the KX. Before I went to the GP4000, I was using the Vittoria Open Corsa KX almost exclusively. I did get a few EVO CX when I bought a pair of shoes from Total Cycling. Hence, I have used both and have both in my possession.

Trust me on this one- There is a very significant difference in the center tread thickness of the two tires. It is quite apparent by touch. Very much so. I find the CX and the KS to be similar to the Veloflex Pave tire. All of them are very thin tires. But the KX is thicker.


Sandy

[1centaur]

All my bikes now have either Open Corsa CX, Veloflex Pave or GP 4000 (except for a couple with old GP 3000s). I would rank them in that order. Agree that the Vittoria's cut easily, and they're heavy, but they are the only sublime experience I have ever had on tires. Paves are really light, and I have not had puncture problems at all, they roll fine, but not sublimely. The 4000s feel totally fine and I like their reputation for puncture resistance - I use them on my winter bikes.

I have never owned Michelins (though Michelin tubes are the best).

[Sandy]

All my bikes now have either Open Corsa CX, Veloflex Pave or GP 4000 (except for a couple with old GP 3000s). I would rank them in that order. Agree that the Vittoria's cut easily, and they're heavy, but they are the only sublime experience I have ever had on tires. Paves are really light, and I have not had puncture problems at all, they roll fine, but not sublimely. The 4000s feel totally fine and I like their reputation for puncture resistance - I use them on my winter bikes.

I have never owned Michelins (though Michelin tubes are the best).

Try the 700x25 GP4000 and then compare them (assuming that you are using 23 for what you are using). I find the 700x25 GP4000 tires to give a much better ride quality (less air and more rubber).



More air and less sense,


Serotta Somebody

[Rich_W]

michelin pro race 2!

+1... try the TDF LE version! After years of riding CX's and Veloflex... I'm afraid to say these are superior in every way.

[Grant McLean]

Trust me on this one- There is a very significant difference in the center tread thickness of the two tires. It is quite apparent by touch. Very much so. I find the CX and the KS to be similar to the Veloflex Pave tire. All of them are very thin tires. But the KX is thicker.

Sandy, (joke to follow....)

I'm not sure I believe you. Please cut all your tires in half, so we can measure
the depth of the thread. :)

g

[chrisroph]

I love the vittoria corsa cx as fronts and conti gp 3000 or 4000 as rears. The vittorias don't last as rears but I've gotten a lot of miles out of them on the front.

[orbea65]

+1... try the TDF LE version! After years of riding CX's and Veloflex... I'm afraid to say these are superior in every way.

What is the tdf le version?

[Grant McLean]

What is the tdf le version?

I think they mean these ones:

Michelin Pro2 Race Limited Edition Tires

These are the exact same tires that are being ridden by AG2R and Bouyges Telecom
Offers the lowest rolling resistance of any tire Michelin has ever offered
Provides nearly the grip of the Pro2 Grip tire and enhanced puncture resistance thanks to a newly developed rubber compound
Only 15,000 pairs of this tire will be produced.
Sold in pairs only

g

[toaster]

What is it about the Michelin Pro Race that makes the rear last so long?

This tire is super lightweight, very grippy and somehow it takes a long time to wear out.

[atmo]

What is it about the Michelin Pro Race that makes the rear last so long?

i wonder the same thing about archibald atmo.

[Avispa]

The veloflex pave is terrific, and my personal favorite, but it is not "tough". It doesn't flat, but it does wear quickly. Certainly fast and high quality, though.

Perhaps, LA roads are cleaner than So. Florida's...

I like the Veloflexes and Gommitalia (almost the same).... But I did go back to using Contis because I started to get too many flats with the Velos/Gommis.

I use the Attack/Force combo and I like them a lot! I use light tubes, like the Conti Supersonic 28 or the Michelin latex....

[Sandy]

I agree with you. The Veloflex Pave have a supple ride quality. However they are very thin and cut and flat much easier than other tires. In addition, they are 700x22. Do I or most of us really need a 180 gram narrow tire? I decided that I certainly don't need such a tire, and simply stopped using them, almost exclusively because of safety concerns from riding such a narrow thin tire. I find 700x25 tires can ride with an even better and more supple ride, at least for me.


I did find that the propensity for the Veloflex tires to flat significantly decreased as I reduced tire psi.


10,000 psi and ready to explode,


Simple Sandy

[GregL]

Racing: Veloflex Paves. Light, great feel, very reliable. I've never had a flat racing on them. I am careful to change them out when the tread gets thin.

Training: Michelin Carbons. Nice fat, round profile. Predictable in wet weather. The 23's are fatter than most brands' 25's. Very reliable. They are the only tire I have used that can be worn down to the casing before changing them out. When my stock of Carbons runs out, I plan to try their successor, the Krylion (sp?).

Regards,
Greg

[Johny]

I think they mean these ones:

Michelin Pro2 Race Limited Edition Tires

These are the exact same tires that are being ridden by AG2R and Bouyges Telecom
Offers the lowest rolling resistance of any tire Michelin has ever offered
Provides nearly the grip of the Pro2 Grip tire and enhanced puncture resistance thanks to a newly developed rubber compound
Only 15,000 pairs of this tire will be produced.
Sold in pairs only

g

$70 shippped here:
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?p=255990
:)

[swoop]

i stocked up on the pro race 2's. with my eyes closed i can't tell the difference between them and tubulars. i'll keep them on my race wheels and train on the pro races. it's just softer, more luscious, supple rubber. supple is to pro race 2's as wide berth is to dudes with mirrors.

*evil laugh*

[shinomaster]

I like the "Richard Sachs" special edition tires:

and they come both ways..

g

I got some of these from Italy and two out three were messed up...

[SayHey]

I have had the same experience as Sandy with the GP 4000s, although I haven't tried as many different tires as him. I can attest the GP 4000s are dramatically better than recent GP 3000s, which I also liked. I first rode the GP 4000s in 700x23 and thought they were 25s. I now ride the 25s and they have a wonderful ride quality. I have about 1000 miles on mine and have had no flats and virtually no cuts -- they are wearing very well. My roads aren't that good either.

Bottom line is I think there are a number of good choices out there and GP4000s are certainly one of them.

[Brons2]

I must be the only person that likes Gatorskins. For the rock and glass strewn city streets around here, they work pretty well. I run them in 700x25 on one bike and 700x28 on my other bike.

[alancw3]

conti gp4000's get my vote. have about 1500 miles on them so far and will definitely buy them again. great wear and seem to be very durable.

[1centaur]

I love the vittoria corsa cx as fronts and conti gp 3000 or 4000 as rears. The vittorias don't last as rears but I've gotten a lot of miles out of them on the front.

This is actually interesting, as on my top bike I have Vittoria Corsa CX on the front and Paves on the rear exactly because the rear cut up and I had Paves at hand. That combo keeps going and going, with no cuts on the front after a lot of miles.

[orbea65]

Thanks for the responses. I decided to order 4 tires to try from probikekit.com.
2 x Michelin Pro 2's (700 x 23)
2 x Vittoria EVO Open Corsa CX (700 x 23)

They were all about $30 US each, and free shipping to North America. Hard to beat! They didn't have the tubes that you all mentioned though, so will have to find those elsewhere.