Compact Drivetrain Conversion

[davids]

So, I’m interested in replacing the drivetrain on my Seven. It’s currently set up with Ultegra 9 (6500 series), with a 52-42-30 triple and an 11-23 cassette. I want to go to a 50-34 double crank and a 12-25 cassette. Here’s what I’m thinking:

Current.......................................New
Ultegra 9 brifters............................same
Ultegra 9 triple crank.......................Ritchey WCS or Pro compact crank
Ultegra 9 triple bottom bracket..........Ultegra 9 double bottom bracket
Ultegra 9 triple front derailleur...........Ultegra 9 double front derailleur
Ultegra 9 long cage derailleur............Ultegra 9 short cage derailleur
Ultegra 9 11-23 cassette.................Ultegra 9 12-25 cassette

Here are my questions:

Are the Ultegra 9 brifters both double and triple compatible? If so, is there some little hidden switch I have to flip to control the shift action?
Is the short-cage Ultegra 9 going to work with a 50-34 crank? Strictly from an esthetic point of view, I’d like to retire the long-cage derailleur.

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom!

[Dave]

Seems like a shame to spend all that money on new parts and not move on to 10 speed. You'll gain the 16T cog to fill that nasty gap between the 15 and 17.

Also, if you're buying a new crank and BB, I wouldn't buy an octalink version. Either use an ISIS or better yet, get one of the new outboard bearing designs.

[torquer]

I thought Ritchey only offered an ISIS BB. Do they make an Octalink version?

FWIW, when I switched over to a compact setup, my LBS complained bitterly about the Ritchey WCS crank I had spec'ed (I never saw the BB) and sent it back in exchange for an aluminum FSA compact with outboard bearings; cost was about the same, and I've had no problems over the past two years.

If you are set on octalink, Sugino makes a nice compact crank in the same price range; I got one on e-bay for my other bike when I didn't want to remove the Dura-ace BB.

[Ken Robb]

I've never had any problems with Octalink components. Isis seems like it may be on the way out judging from the many close-out sales of FSA's ISIS stuff.

[davids]

Dave,

I'm sticking with Ultegra 9 to save the cost of new brifters. They would pretty much double the cost of the conversion. I love Ultegra 10, but I'm happy to stick with 9 cogs on this bike.

As far as Isis - What Ken said. ISIS is disappearing. I've used Octalink for years without issue.

As far as Ritchey, I wasn't aware that there have been issues. I figured Ritchey's stuff was an obvious choice. Have others had problems with Ritchey cranks?

...and what about my orginal questions? Anyone? :)

Thanks.

[coylifut]

I've never had any problems with Octalink components. Isis seems like it may be on the way out judging from the many close-out sales of FSA's ISIS stuff.

I concur. I use Octalink bbs on my crossbikes and they wear like Iron. The ISIS ones I used didn't last long.

[Ken Robb]

My Hampsten has Ritchey 50-34 Octalink with 9 speed Campy group--works like a charm.

[RPS]

Shimano lists the total capacity of a short-cage 9-speed RD at 29T, but they also list the maximum front difference at 14T (you exceed that slightly but I know riders who have 54-38s without problems). I would be concerned mostly with the total capacity and would have little hesitation trying what you plan.

I've thought about doing the same, but was going to keep the triple's RD so I could occasionally install an 11-27 or even 11-30.

[Jeremy]

So, I’m interested in replacing the drivetrain on my Seven. It’s currently set up with Ultegra 9 (6500 series), with a 52-42-30 triple and an 11-23 cassette. I want to go to a 50-34 double crank and a 12-25 cassette. Here’s what I’m thinking:

Current.......................................New
Ultegra 9 brifters............................same
Ultegra 9 triple crank.......................Ritchey WCS or Pro compact crank
Ultegra 9 triple bottom bracket..........Ultegra 9 double bottom bracket
Ultegra 9 triple front derailleur...........Ultegra 9 double front derailleur
Ultegra 9 long cage derailleur............Ultegra 9 short cage derailleur
Ultegra 9 11-23 cassette.................Ultegra 9 12-25 cassette

Here are my questions:

Are the Ultegra 9 brifters both double and triple compatible? If so, is there some little hidden switch I have to flip to control the shift action?
Is the short-cage Ultegra 9 going to work with a 50-34 crank? Strictly from an esthetic point of view, I’d like to retire the long-cage derailleur.

Am I missing anything here?

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom!


David,

Ultegra 9sp shifters are double/triple compatible. There is no "switch" to change. If you set it up as a double, the outer limit screw of the front mech simply prevents the shifter from moving into the "triple range" of the shfter.

The Ritchey WCS compact is a nice crank and it is Octalink compatible. Somebody else mentioned an Octalink compatible Sugino crank. That is called the "Cospea" or the "Alpina". The "Cospea" is black, the "Alpina" is silver, otherwise they are the same. I havn't seen the Alpina available anywhere in the US, but the Cospea is available to bike shops (no consumer direct sales) through Euro-Asia imports. I think that the Sugino crank is a little nicer than the Ritchey, although I believe that Sugino makes the Ritchey crank as well.

The short cage rear der will work fine with the compact 34/50 set up.

Cheers,

Jeremy

[Dave]

As far as Isis - What Ken said. ISIS is disappearing. I've used Octalink for years without issue.



To be totally accurate, both ISIS and octalink are disappearing with the increasing popularity of outboard bearing cranks. At least ISIS models are supported by several brands, while octalink is solely a shimano product. As for longevity, there's no good reason for an octalink to last longer. Both designs use the same spindle diameter and suffer from the same lack of room for the bearings. I've used ISIS for years with no problems.

As for closing out ISIS cranks, yes, FSA is switching over to outboard bearing models, so you can find ISIS models cheap. Shimano only makes octalink cranks in the cheap Tiagra and Sora lines.

I bought two new FSA Team issue carbon triple cranks that originally sold for $350, for only $150 each on E-bay. I won't need any new cranks for quite awhile. Hopefully, by the time I need a new crank Campy will have their outboard model in a triple crank.

[Ray]

I have the WCS compact crank with Octalink BB and have had no problems with probably 8-9,000 miles on the setup. I swapped out the 50 for a 48 (FSA ring, I think) and that works just fine. I've heard more bad about Isis than Octalink, but have no personal experience with isis. I 'spect Octalink bb's will be around for a while, if for no other reason that Shimano sold a LOT of octalink cranks over a period of, what, 4-5 years, and they'll keep making at least an Ultegra or 105 level bb to support them. I haven't heard of any problems with Ritchey cranks either - the old, square taper Ritchey compact was one of the nicest cranks EVER imho and I bought a bunch of them when they were discontinued several years ago. I think those were also made by Sugino, but could be wrong.

-Ray

[Jeremy]

To be totally accurate, both ISIS and octalink are disappearing with the increasing popularity of outboard bearing cranks. At least ISIS models are supported by several brands, while octalink is solely a shimano product. As for longevity, there's no good reason for an octalink to last longer. Both designs use the same spindle diameter and suffer from the same lack of room for the bearings. I've used ISIS for years with no problems.


Dave is correct on this. Both ISIS and Octalink are being phased out. Currently, only Shimano makes an Octalink bb. This may change, but probably not. Another thing that may tip the balance to ISIS is that, on most ISIS designs, the bearings are replaceable. FSA, Tru-Vativ, etc... say that the bearings are not replaceable but, in most cases, they are. All of the Shimano Octalink bb's, except D/A 7700 double and the oldest XTR M-950 are not serviceable. The bearings are sealed within a closed metal shell and cannot be replaced. This is not relevant to most people, but if you want to keep your ISIS sytem running for years to come, you can replace just the bearings if need be.

Jeremy

[Ken Robb]

Just because Shimano may stop offering new Octalink groups doesn't mean they won't still offer replacement BB and other components. They still sell square taper BBs for goodness sake.

[Jeremy]

Ken,

You're right. Shimano will continue to service the Octalink format. I like Octalink, I use it as well. The Ritchey cranks are very nice and will work well. I like ISIS too. It may not be disappearing as fast as some believe because Zipp, Deda and Stronglight, at least, still use it as their standard. If Shimano follows their normal path, they will continue to offer Octalink bb's, but only in the lower quality versions. The unique difference with Octalink bb's is that nobody else was allowed to make them. PhilWood, Action-Tec, Tune, etc... still make very high quality square taper bb's. FSA, Deda, IRD(Tange), Stronglight, etc... still make very nice ISIS bb's. Of course, anyone who is concerned about future availablility of an Octalink bb can buy two or three now, they're pretty cheap.

DavidS,

Your plan is sound. The shifters and rear der that you have will work properly (see previous post addressing your original question). The Ritchey cranks and Ultegra bb will deliver very good performance at a decent price.

Jeremy

[davids]

Jeremy,

Thanks so much for the help. Full speed ahead (although not, in this case, with FSA.)

[wwtsui]

I recently did basically the same thing (ironically, on a Seven as well) -- only I happened to use the Shimano compact crank instead of the Ritchey/Octalink combo. I'm happy with the setup, but wanted to point out one thing: I wound up having some chain rub when in the 34T ring against the 50T ring when in the smallest 3-4 cogs. Switching to a 10-speed Shimano chain reduced that problem to the two smallest cogs, which is good enough for me. LBS seems to think that the new SRAM 10-speed chain is a bit narrower still, so I'll try that next. (fwiw, I think Smiley had a similar experience when I asked about it here recently: http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=20753)

YMMV -- maybe the Ritchey rings are slightly farther apart (or your total distance from crank to rear axle is just slightly longer) that it won't be a problem.

Good luck!

[davids]

wwtsui,

Thanks for the heads-up. Even if I run into this problem, I don't think it'll bug me much - I try to stay out of the small ring-small cog and bing ring-big cog combos as much as I can. And I'm surprised you can use a 10-speed chain with a 9-speed set up. I would have thought the chain would be too narrow internally.

You're in Boston, too? Whereabouts?

[jbay]

The old Sugino made, square taper Ritchey cranks were wonderful. The I-beam design of the newer Octalink compatible model leaves a lot to be desired, however. I've seen a couple of them end up like this.

-- John

[wwtsui]

And I'm surprised you can use a 10-speed chain with a 9-speed set up. I would have thought the chain would be too narrow internally.

I was surprised, too. Seems to work like a charm -- I've not noticed any problems indexing or anything.


You're in Boston, too? Whereabouts?

Western 'burbs -- my main rides are through wellesley/dover/sherborn/medfield and weston/lincoln/concord/carlisle. Whereabouts are you?

[davids]

I was surprised, too. Seems to work like a charm -- I've not noticed any problems indexing or anything.


Western 'burbs -- my main rides are through wellesley/dover/sherborn/medfield and weston/lincoln/concord/carlisle. Whereabouts are you?
In town - Dorchester. I generally ride south or west. My weekday rides are through Milton, Quincy, Canton & Dedham. But weekends often take me out towards Dover (starting at a friend's in Brookline!)