First carbon wheels, did not go well

[mcteague]

I had posted earlier that I was looking for carbon wheels. I really like my Joe Young DT240s/RR440 set which are about 5 years old but just wanted something new and different. I ended up getting a pair of Reynolds Assault SLG carbon clinchers. One short ride later and I was not happy.

As soon as I started out I knew something was wrong as the rear wheel had a pronounced hop. I did not see any out of round issues when I first checked the wheel out. It turned out the tire bead did not fully seat. A few inches of bead were still down in the rim center channel and it took lots of tugging to get it to move even a little. My guess is the middle has a sharp transition to the hook and the bead kind of got stuck there. The tires, Michelin Pro 4s, were taken off my DT wheels. I went back out and other things started to bother me. The rear had a tinkling sound so I thought something was loose in the rim but shaking it revealed nothing. When I pushed up a hill there was a bit of brake rub on the rear. The braking seemed fine but the front had a slight pulse. On top of all that, the ride quality seemed rougher than my aluminum set. I understood carbon wheels were actually better at smoothing things out. The rear hub may have issues as the spacers kept falling out when I was trying to put the rear wheel in place.

In any event, the shop who sold them to me have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and were happy to take them back. So, other than getting tubulars, which I am not going to do, I am not sure how to scratch the new wheel itch. I don't want new wheels that don't offer anything above what my current set have. I am curious about the new, wider aluminum rims (19-20mm internal) that promise to provide a better tire shape. Or, is this mostly marketing?

Tim

[saab2000]

I am curious about the new, wider aluminum rims (19-20mm internal) that promise to provide a better tire shape. Or, is this mostly marketing?

Tim

I think there is truth to the wider rim phenomenon. They spread out the tire a bit more creating a bit more volume. This allows for lower pressure and consequently a nicer ride, all while not losing any efficiency and possibly gaining some as it seems lower pressure tires actually have lower resistance over coarse surfaces.

I'm a fan of 23mm tires on wide rims as they spread out to about 25mm. But most folks seem to like 25mm tires that spread out to 27 or more mm of width.

I run mine at 80/75 rear and front and they're quite nice.

I know that's not the answer to your carbon wheel issue but it is my experience with wider rims.

As far as carbon rims smoothing out the ride, I call bologna sausage on that one. I've had carbon rims and they are not smoother. I won't say they're rougher either but they're certainly no smoother.

I sold a pair of ENVE 3.4s this spring and went with some wider aluminum rims (Boyd Altamont Lites in this case) for my daily riding. No regrets.

[mcteague]

I sold a pair of ENVE 3.4s this spring and went with some wider aluminum rims (Boyd Altamont Lites in this case) for my daily riding. No regrets.

Thanks. The Boyd Altamont Lites are a set I have my eye on. The roads around here are very hilly and my average speed is really not fast enough to merit deep section rims I believe. Plus, I don't race. At this stage, I like a light and lively pair of wheels that are both comfortable and reliable. I have a small stockpile of Pro4 25mm tires so I will keep using them for the time being.

Tim

[sales guy]

if you want durability, reliability and good looks, get a set of Campy Shamal wheels if you are running Campy or a set of Fulcrum wheels if Shimano.
And they aren't horrible heavy or anything. Stiff, solid, excellent braking.

[drewskey]

I've owned many carbon and alum wheels over the years and I will say that the RFSW3s over at November Bicycles (https://novemberbicycles.com/products/rfsw3)has me wanting to go back to alum.

[b3pkay]

I'm ordering a set of Hunt 4 season areos as soon as they're back in stock—wide aluminum and very reasonably priced. Have heard great things about their carbon selection too... if you were willing to give carbon another try.

[sales guy]

I'm ordering a set of Hunt 4 season areos as soon as they're back in stock—wide aluminum and very reasonably priced. Have heard great things about their carbon selection too... if you were willing to give carbon another try.

I second that Hunt has an excellent product. I have them on bikes here and they are really nice for for the money.

[PeregrineA1]

A good friend of mine has a carbon wheel company. He is not a site sponsor so, the company will remain nameless. Suffice to say they quality wheels. He is very sensitive to ride quality to the extent that he has strong opinions about spoke count. Too many equals too stiff. He has some other opinions as well ....interesting discussions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jghall]

In my feeble mind, there is no sense in going carbon unless you're using tubular.

[dddd]

Carbon rims also seem to make more sense when fitted to a disc-braked bike, since the rim isn't part of the braking system.

And carbon can keep weight low as a wider rim profile is used.

So carbon rims can be part of the contemporary package deal, with wider inside width giving more-vertical tire sidewalls, which increases lateral support between the tread and the rim, so improves steering response, and reduces rolling resistance by reducing the sharpness of the bend in the tire casing around the flat contact patch.
And deep aero profiles don't have to weigh so much extra when the rim material is carbon versus extruded aluminum.

But at the end of the day I am not willing to go with carbon rims for my modest level of master's racing and spirited training rides. I do have an older pair of Mavic Cosmic Carbone wheels with 13mm inside width, but I seldom use them.

[ergott]

if you want durability, reliability and good looks, get a set of Campy Shamal wheels if you are running Campy or a set of Fulcrum wheels if Shimano.
And they aren't horrible heavy or anything. Stiff, solid, excellent braking.

Sorry, but I've had a few Shamals in my shop. Not impressed at all. Two different wheels had the nipple seized to the spoke from misthreading. None of them had any grease or other lubrication on them. I broke a spoke just trying to true one spoke that the nipple was frozen on. The weak point of the spoke is at the transition from blade to round.

They sure do look nice, but they are disposable. The rims cost a fortune and so to the spokes. At what they cost most people to buy (the reality is most people buy them from Europe), you throw them out when there's an issue. I used to have much love for Campagnolo wheels and still do like other wheels in their lineup. Aluminium spokes? No thanks.

[R3awak3n]

you had a bad experience but leta be honest here, something was wrong with that wheelset you tried. Personally I would take them back and try something else and if and only then I would have an opinion.

The seating of the tire is not usually a problem with carbon rims and although I have had a wheelset that pulsed in the front, that is not the norm (my reynolds attack did not do that, they were excellent). The brake rub is also strange but It is probably because the way the reynolds are laced (maybe not laterally stiff enough for your power)

I would really give other wheels a try. But otherwise I would go with bont altamont lite ceramic. Gets looks of carbon, with great braking.

[mcteague]

you had a bad experience but leta be honest here, something was wrong with that wheelset you tried. Personally I would take them back and try something else and if and only then I would have an opinion.

The seating of the tire is not usually a problem with carbon rims and although I have had a wheelset that pulsed in the front, that is not the norm (my reynolds attack did not do that, they were excellent). The brake rub is also strange but It is probably because the way the reynolds are laced (maybe not laterally stiff enough for your power)

I would really give other wheels a try. But otherwise I would go with bont altamont lite ceramic. Gets looks of carbon, with great braking.

The wheels are on their way back. I must admit, the appeal of carbon is mostly a looks thing. The Altamont ceramics tick that same box, I just don't like the look of a silver brake track. Stupid, I know, but a cool looking bike sort of makes you want to ride it. At the end of the day, I have a really nice pair of Joe Young wheels. I don't want to change for the sake of change. But, if new style rims can improve the ride in some way, as the 19-20 mm internal spacing type claim, I could be tempted. The ceramics do cost more and I am not sure there is much to gain other than looks. The search continues. And, I may just stay where I am.

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

if you want durability, reliability and good looks, get a set of Campy Shamal wheels if you are running Campy or a set of Fulcrum wheels if Shimano.
And they aren't horrible heavy or anything. Stiff, solid, excellent braking.

Or Shamals if you are running shimano or Fulcrum if Campagnolo...FHBs mix and match all Campag and Fulcrum wheels, shimano->Campag and back..

You knew that but for the 'gallery'...:)

[oldpotatoe]

I had posted earlier that I was looking for carbon wheels. I really like my Joe Young DT240s/RR440 set which are about 5 years old but just wanted something new and different. I ended up getting a pair of Reynolds Assault SLG carbon clinchers. One short ride later and I was not happy.

As soon as I started out I knew something was wrong as the rear wheel had a pronounced hop. I did not see any out of round issues when I first checked the wheel out. It turned out the tire bead did not fully seat. A few inches of bead were still down in the rim center channel and it took lots of tugging to get it to move even a little. My guess is the middle has a sharp transition to the hook and the bead kind of got stuck there. The tires, Michelin Pro 4s, were taken off my DT wheels. I went back out and other things started to bother me. The rear had a tinkling sound so I thought something was loose in the rim but shaking it revealed nothing. When I pushed up a hill there was a bit of brake rub on the rear. The braking seemed fine but the front had a slight pulse. On top of all that, the ride quality seemed rougher than my aluminum set. I understood carbon wheels were actually better at smoothing things out. The rear hub may have issues as the spacers kept falling out when I was trying to put the rear wheel in place.

In any event, the shop who sold them to me have a 30 day satisfaction guarantee and were happy to take them back. So, other than getting tubulars, which I am not going to do, I am not sure how to scratch the new wheel itch. I don't want new wheels that don't offer anything above what my current set have. I am curious about the new, wider aluminum rims (19-20mm internal) that promise to provide a better tire shape. Or, is this mostly marketing?

Tim

DT411..appropriate spoke count with some sweet hubs...hard to beat!!

OC rear as well...email if you'd like to go that route

cp51errc@gmail.com

[chiasticon]

you had a bad experience but leta be honest here, something was wrong with that wheelset you tried. Personally I would take them back and try something else and if and only then I would have an opinion.I'd agree with this. I've been on a handful of carbon clinchers and lots more tubulars and the issues the OP is describing for sure aren't the norm. and they're not even specific to carbon, for that matter. I've also owned two sets of Reynolds recent carbon wheels; Attack SLG clinchers and Assault SLG tubulars. neither had the issues you describe.

it IS possible to have carbon wheels rub the brake tracks, primarily if they're super stiff and you're putting out big watts. the issue is that carbon doesn't deflect like aluminum does when you rock the bike back and forth; it's just too stiff. some wheels are worse at this than others. that said, I don't have this issue with my Assaults.

I would say try something else when you get a shot. or borrow a friend's wheels that he loves. carbon wheels aren't the greatest thing in the world and it's not like I wouldn't ride a bike without 'em; but they sure are a lot of fun. hate to see you write them off entirely because you just got a randomly bad set of wheels.

[mcteague]

DT411..appropriate spoke count with some sweet hubs...hard to beat!!

OC rear as well...email if you'd like to go that route

cp51errc@gmail.com

But that wheel sounds like basically what I have now, DT240s/RR440/DT Super comp spokes 32/28. My 5 year old wheels still ride fine. I am mostly curious about the new generation wider rims and wondered if they really offered any improvement over what I currently have. I have come to the conclusion that 40mm aero rims are not likely to really benefit me in the type of riding I do. So, if I stick to aluminum, is there anything worth buying that will improve the ride over my current setup?

Tim

[oldpotatoe]

But that wheel sounds like basically what I have now, DT240s/RR440/DT Super comp spokes 32/28. My 5 year old wheels still ride fine. I am mostly curious about the new generation wider rims and wondered if they really offered any improvement over what I currently have.

Tim

10-4..be careful of too wide rims and 'some' rim calipers..may be too wide for them. BUT a 18mm inner width(440/411) or a couple/few MMs bigger..I think any 'benefit' is lost in the noise..same tires and pressures..IMHO, of course.

[BikeNY]

Not sure where you came up with carbon rims giving a smoother ride, it's usually the opposite, as the carbon is generally stiffer than aluminum. Lots of factors involved obviously. The main advantages of carbon rims are lighter weight, stiffer, and good looks. I am a fan of the wider rims and tires these days, still unsure about carbon rims on my road bike though.

[-dustin]

it's been a number of years since i've heard the line about carbon wheels making the ride more comfy. i never really understood where that came from, but whatevs.

I've had 3 (and still have 2) sets of Reynolds carbon clinchers since 2014...Attacks, Aero 46s, and ATRs. The Attacks and Aero46s mount well. The ATRs were pains. Those were the only ones that were tubeless compatible. They still mounted up, though, and would typically seat at 90psi or so. I loved the ATRs, but didn't love disks, so that bike went away. I've never had wheels as long as I've had these Attacks and Aero 46s. The 46s are the best carbon clincher made, in my opinion (having spent time on Enve, Roval, Zipp, yadda yadda). All wheels had Michelin Pro 4s on them, both Service Course and Endurance.

I assume your brakes were adjusted?

regardless, as others have said or alluded to...i'd say your experience was quite outside the norm.

[zap]

Aluminium spokes? No thanks.

Road wheels, al spokes are an aero mess.

[mcteague]

Thanks for all the replies. I agree there was something amiss about these wheels that was not the norm. But, a quick ride made me aware of a few things that may be typical of all, fairly deep, carbon rims. The ride seemed to make me more aware of all the road imperfections and I had the same tires and pressures as my normal wheels. In fact, I just swapped the tires and tubes over to the new set.

They only seemed to feel faster when I was going downhill and that may just be an illusion. The overall noise was greater as well. I suppose that is to be expected with the hollow plastic cavity. Breaking actually seemed strong but made a bit of noise. Not screeching, just a fairly loud hum. And, for some reason, they just did not feel planted. Maybe that was due to the tires not properly seating but I was anxious to take them off.

As I mentioned, I have no real need for new wheels. Its just that after 5 years I have that itch. But, my practical side just won't let me get something new that really just duplicates what I have. So, I'm reaching out to those who have more experience in the latest wheel tech to find out if the newer designs, wide/ceramic/etc, have any real world benefit for a non-racer who just likes to enjoy the ride in a mostly hilly environment. Not mountains, just constant up and down roads. I do like to push my speed a bit but saving a few seconds, or minutes, on a 25 mile ride is not a priority. Light, lively and reliable wheels are my goal.

Tim

[jgarrett]

If you are looking for a quality, wide alu wheel, take a hard look at the HED Ardennes...hard to beat imo. If you like the look of carbon better, try their Jet 6 Black Edition...same Ardennes rim, carbon fairing, blacked out brake track. The tire profile on wide rims is a game changer...I will never buy another wheel with <21mm internal

[R3awak3n]

Thanks for all the replies. I agree there was something amiss about these wheels that was not the norm. But, a quick ride made me aware of a few things that may be typical of all, fairly deep, carbon rims. The ride seemed to make me more aware of all the road imperfections and I had the same tires and pressures as my normal wheels. In fact, I just swapped the tires and tubes over to the new set.

They only seemed to feel faster when I was going downhill and that may just be an illusion. The overall noise was greater as well. I suppose that is to be expected with the hollow plastic cavity. Breaking actually seemed strong but made a bit of noise. Not screeching, just a fairly loud hum. And, for some reason, they just did not feel planted. Maybe that was due to the tires not properly seating but I was anxious to take them off.

As I mentioned, I have no real need for new wheels. Its just that after 5 years I have that itch. But, my practical side just won't let me get something new that really just duplicates what I have. So, I'm reaching out to those who have more experience in the latest wheel tech to find out if the newer designs, wide/ceramic/etc, have any real world benefit for a non-racer who just likes to enjoy the ride in a mostly hilly environment. Not mountains, just constant up and down roads. I do like to push my speed a bit but saving a few seconds, or minutes, on a 25 mile ride is not a priority. Light, lively and reliable wheels are my goal.

Tim

carbon wheels are louder for sure, that is a good and accurate observation. Braking is substantially louder and can be pitchy. Also ridding along you get a swooshy sound, which I actually like, makes you feel like you are going FAST.

For real though, you are the perfect candidate to those altamont ceramics

[mcteague]

Oh, and to answer other questions. The brakes were setup fine. I had plenty of space between the rim and brake pad and only the rear seemed to rub. I'm not that strong!

As far as where I read carbon wheels can be more comfortable; here are just a few sites that have made that comment:

http://road.cc/content/feature/171115-pros-and-cons-carbon-fibre-wheels
Some carbon fibre wheels also provide a smoother ride over rough road surfaces as well.

http://www.icebike.org/carbon-road-bike-wheels/
It will be more comfortable and faster than any alloy wheel you ride

https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/carbon-and-aluminium-wheels-five-observations.html
The most notable difference between the two wheelsets was in the ‘feel’, by which we mean the ability of the wheel to absorb feedback from the road, its influence on the handling of the bike, and its stiffness.

The Aeolus 3 D3 was a clear winner in every regard.

Tim

[oldguy00]

Oh, and to answer other questions. The brakes were setup fine. I had plenty of space between the rim and brake pad and only the rear seemed to rub. I'm not that strong!

As far as where I read carbon wheels can be more comfortable; here are just a few sites that have made that comment:

http://road.cc/content/feature/171115-pros-and-cons-carbon-fibre-wheels
Some carbon fibre wheels also provide a smoother ride over rough road surfaces as well.

http://www.icebike.org/carbon-road-bike-wheels/
It will be more comfortable and faster than any alloy wheel you ride

https://roadcyclinguk.com/gear/carbon-and-aluminium-wheels-five-observations.html
The most notable difference between the two wheelsets was in the ‘feel’, by which we mean the ability of the wheel to absorb feedback from the road, its influence on the handling of the bike, and its stiffness.

The Aeolus 3 D3 was a clear winner in every regard.

Tim

After 30 odd years of biking on all sorts of wheels and bikes, I call total marketing BS on thos pages. If I put you on two wheelsets, one aluminum, one carbon, same -width-, same tires and same pressure, you will have no idea which is which in terms of ride feel.

To the OP:
If you want deep section wheels, I have found HED Jet 6's to be very reliable, and they have an aluminum brake surface which is nice too.

[45K10]

Sorry, but I've had a few Shamals in my shop. Not impressed at all. Two different wheels had the nipple seized to the spoke from misthreading. None of them had any grease or other lubrication on them. I broke a spoke just trying to true one spoke that the nipple was frozen on. The weak point of the spoke is at the transition from blade to round.

They sure do look nice, but they are disposable. The rims cost a fortune and so to the spokes. At what they cost most people to buy (the reality is most people buy them from Europe), you throw them out when there's an issue. I used to have much love for Campagnolo wheels and still do like other wheels in their lineup. Aluminium spokes? No thanks.

I concede you have way more knowledge about wheels than I do but Shamals are some the best wheels you can buy IMO. I have them on three bikes and have put them through the wringer over the past five years. Yeah alum spokes/nipples aren't the greatest in terms of maintenance but I have only broke one spoke over the years and that was because I ripped the RD off in a cross race. In my experience if you lube the nipples and spokes every now and then you are golden.

[R3awak3n]

I pretty much don't want any wheels with proprietary spokes, no thanks. Campy or not, no thanks. So I do see where ergott is coming from. I also think g3 pattern looks no bueno.

I am also with oldguy00, marketing bs through and through. Tires is a much better investment when it comes to comfort than wheels

[ptourkin]

This hop happens often on tubeless ready carbon if you don't entirely clear the bead. Overinflating until you get a good pop works.

[Gummee]

Not sure where you came up with carbon rims giving a smoother ride, it's usually the opposite, as the carbon is generally stiffer than aluminum. Lots of factors involved obviously. The main advantages of carbon rims are lighter weight, stiffer, and good looks. I am a fan of the wider rims and tires these days, still unsure about carbon rims on my road bike though.

303s are supposed to have some flex in the sidewalls of the rims. The rest? Dunno

AFA the OP: returning a pair of wheels because he couldn't get the bead to seat properly on the rim? Umm yeah.

I've got a fair few each carbon and AL wheels. If I'm JRA I'm typically on AL. If I'm racing, I'm typically on carbon. Fast group rides/hammerfests? Carbon again when I can help it.

YMMV as with all things

M

[mcteague]

This hop happens often on tubeless ready carbon if you don't entirely clear the bead. Overinflating until you get a good pop works.

Yeah, I tried that as well. Maybe not enough pressure. I have changed my own motorcycle tires so am quite familiar with the pop when a bead seats. There were one or two pops when inflating but a short section on each wheel would just not move into position.

Tim

[Jaybee]

Yeah, I tried that as well. Maybe not enough pressure. I have changed my own motorcycle tires so am quite familiar with the pop when a bead seats. There were one or two pops when inflating but a short section on each wheel would just not move into position.

Tim


Soapy water or other lubricating agents help on tubeless setups. Maybe try it here?

[denapista]

In my feeble mind, there is no sense in going carbon unless you're using tubular.

THIS!!! Carbon Clincher is a such an industry driven idea. So many variables when you toss in clincher tires getting stretched out over wide carbon clinchers, tubes heating up, etc.

[dddd]

For that last section of tire bead to move up into position just under the bead hook (or, more correctly, on top of the "BSD ledge" at the base of the rim's outer wall), the tire bead needs to SLIP LENGTHWISE along the rim, so that full tension along a greater length of the bead can yield enough stretch to relax the increasing tension in the bead as it lifts up in response to tension in the tire sidewall.

So in addition to the diameter difference between the bead and the bead-seating ledge of the rim, and the casing tension resulting from increased air pressure, some degree of slip must occur along the length of the tire bead.
Using a little soapy water (per Jaybee recommendation) or rubbing alcohol usually improves the slip by reducing the grip o the surfaces, so a tire-endangering pressure need not be used to fully seat the beads up onto the bead-seating ledges at the inside corners of the rim cavity.

It also often helps to deflate and then re-inflate after perhaps jostling the deflated tire and supporting the bike's weight off of the deflated tire before re-inflating. This is often required to get tires seated onto Schwinn's old steel rims, which can be most difficult to get seated after roadside puncture repairs.

Of course it's also necessary to prevent any portion of the tube (or the rim strip, where applicable) from getting between the tire bead and the bead-seating ledges!
I ALWAYS plump the tube with air before fitting it in the tire, so that it resists getting pinched and stuck between either bead seating ledge and either tire bead, and I also flex the installed tire to each side along it's entire circumference, AND push the valve stem into the tire to free the thicker reinforced (thicker) portion of the tube surrounding the valve stem from getting stuck under either bead. Only then is it safe to inflate the tire, and preferably without the bike's weight squashing down on the deflated tire(!).

Lastly, while veering even further away from the OP's question, using a wide tire on a much narrower rim also often causes tube failure as the tube 1) first fills the circular tire volume, 2) then somewhat pins the pressurized tube against the round inside volume of the tire, 3) and finally forces the tube to stretch locally along it's innermost major diameter to fill the rim cavity as 5psi or so is exceeded. Very often such a tube will end up with it's reinforced area around the valve resisting dropping down between the closely-spaced rim sidewalls and tire beads, so the surrounding thinner rubber to each side of the reinforced pad can get torn open as the tube finally gets pressed down against the rim strip. I have seen many, many such ruptures (and near-ruptures, evidenced by overstretched areas adjacent to the thicker reinforcement).
It is thus imperative to tug on the valve stem after the first couple of psi are introduced into the tire, so as to seat the reinforcement inside of the rim.
Note that while this rubber reinforcement around the valve stem is the last to get pushed down to meet the rim, the rest of the tube's length also gets stressed by having to stretch locally as the tube resists (by friction) being pulled past the inside corner created by the wide tire's sidewalls flexing sharply outward above the narrow rim's sidewalls.

So, especially when the tire is much wider than the rim, it's important to use a tube of generous width that does not have to stretch and pressurize as much while it initially fills the round inside of the inflating tire. Tubes are labeled for their width, but the accuracy or this published measurement varies wildly relative to the actual deflated-and-pressed-flat width dimension of various manufacturer's tubes, which should always nearly equal (or slightly exceed) the inflated width of the tire (especially when the tire is much wider than a narrow rim)!!!

[mcteague]

303s are supposed to have some flex in the sidewalls of the rims. The rest? Dunno

AFA the OP: returning a pair of wheels because he couldn't get the bead to seat properly on the rim? Umm yeah.

I've got a fair few each carbon and AL wheels. If I'm JRA I'm typically on AL. If I'm racing, I'm typically on carbon. Fast group rides/hammerfests? Carbon again when I can help it.

YMMV as with all things

M
Did you read my post? This was just one thing I did not like about the wheels. There was rear brake rub when climbing, front pulse when braking and an odd noise coming from the rear hub, which also had the issue of the spacer and freehub that kept falling off when trying to install the wheel. On top of all that, the ride was a bit rough feeling and noisy. All taken together, I took advantage of their 30 day guarantee and returned them after only one.

And for a general reply to other comments; I now how to mount tires. I have been at this for over 30 years and never had this much trouble. But, this was my first set of carbon rims as well as the first that were made to accept tubeless. I looked at the channel when I took the tire back off and the interior walls looked a bit too steep to me. I could easily see how the tire bead could hang up in the trench and not pop in place. If all else was great, I would have tried some talc to make things slide a bit more.

Tim

[dddd]

Not sure where you came up with carbon rims giving a smoother ride, it's usually the opposite, as the carbon is generally stiffer than aluminum. Lots of factors involved obviously. The main advantages of carbon rims are lighter weight, stiffer, and good looks. I am a fan of the wider rims and tires these days, still unsure about carbon rims on my road bike though.

Yes indeed, lots of factors.
I've built different wheels that had very stiff rims yet still rubbed at the pads under sprinting-type loading even at my modest weight.
The spoke system (spoke guage, ends, attachments, count and bracing angles) plays huge into whether or not a wheel ends up flexy, and a stiffer rim may exacerbate any such weakness as the flex down at the road side of the wheel is more strongly transmitted through the rigid rim, effectively pivoting about the central hub!
I couldn't believe that I was getting brake rub the first time that I encountered this with a known-stiff rim tensioned highly and with what I thought was generous spoke count.
Straight-pull spokes help, as does an offset rim and stiffer hub "flange" structure.

[45K10]

I pretty much don't want any wheels with proprietary spokes, no thanks. Campy or not, no thanks. So I do see where ergott is coming from. I also think g3 pattern looks no bueno.

I am also with oldguy00, marketing bs through and through. Tires is a much better investment when it comes to comfort than wheels

Yeah, I get the no proprietary spokes and I also think the G3 lacing looks a little wonky but they ride sooooo nice. I think the good out weighs the bad. IMO of course.

Might be a good option for the OP to try out

[numbskull]

Lastly, while veering even further away from the OP's question, using a wide tire on a much narrower rim also often causes tube failure as the tube 1) first fills the circular tire volume, 2) then somewhat pins the pressurized tube against the round inside volume of the tire, 3) and finally forces the tube to stretch locally along it's innermost major diameter to fill the rim cavity as 5psi or so is exceeded. Very often such a tube will end up with it's reinforced area around the valve resisting dropping down between the closely-spaced rim sidewalls and tire beads, so the surrounding thinner rubber to each side of the reinforced pad can get torn open as the tube finally gets pressed down against the rim strip. I have seen many, many such ruptures (and near-ruptures, evidenced by overstretched areas adjacent to the thicker reinforcement).


Thank you for posting this. It explains a repeated tube failure adjacent to the reinforced valve seat I was experiencing while using latex tubes on narrow rims with 25mm tires.

[fignon's barber]

Or Shamals if you are running shimano or Fulcrum if Campagnolo...FHBs mix and match all Campag and Fulcrum wheels, shimano->Campag and back..


Campagnolo makes it even easier now. The only graphic on the new Shamal Mille is a small removable rim sticker. The hubs don't even say Campagnolo, just a small sticker that says Ultra Smooth Bearings.

[FlashUNC]

Shamals are killer.

[Ralph]

I agree with above post stating carbon can be an advantage on tubular rims, but because of the design on a clincher rim, not much advantage on clinchers. Get steel spoked Campagnolo Zonda's if you don't like fat aluminum spokes. My wheel builder friend says she can fix a Zonda with off the shelf steel spokes.

[shovelhd]

THIS!!! Carbon Clincher is a such an industry driven idea. So many variables when you toss in clincher tires getting stretched out over wide carbon clinchers, tubes heating up, etc.

Pure BS. Carbon clinchers work fine. Take the time to seat the bead correctly, and it's all good.

[dddd]

Well it's all coming together as far as tire maker's products working with rim-maker's products.

There have been some real duds among products that were released even by reputable makers, everything from carbon clinchers to tubeless clinchers, and a lot of customers got burned. Some even crashed due to the various issues.

While there are a lot of good products that are rapidly getting even better, it is still up to the buyer to check reviews of popular, proven products.

I am liking the newer carbon rims that eschew delicate bead hooks for precisely manufactured rims with thicker, straight-walled sidewalls, and rims with durable braking surfaces that allow good braking in all conditions.

Carbon rims still make the most sense on disc-braked wheels though, they are nearly a no-brainer if you have the cash or can build good wheels yourself.
What is established in the mtb world is slowly coming to the road bike world, whether we like it or not.

[19wisconsin64]

For the original poster: The best wheelset I have ever ridden is the HED wheelset. Amazing, light, super fast, reasonable affordable, comfortable, better cornering to boot. It's not hype, it's real-world physics.

Yes, wider is better. All of the manufacturers are pretty much going that way. The wider internal rim width of these clinchers allow for a larger contact patch. They have lower rolling resistance.

Of course, if funds are unlimited you can go to the carbon clincher wheel sets made by Zipp and Bontrager. There are now some amazing options out there with wider carbon clincher rims.

My aluminum HED clinchers are faster than my Enve carbon tubulars. Yup.

[George_H]

To go from custom made Joe Young wheels to anything else might be a disappointment (except for custom made old potatoe's or custom built ergott's). I have three pairs of DT Swiss hubs / DT Swiss rims / Joe Young built wheels all made just for me, my weight and my riding style, and could not be happier.

If you have a new wheel itch, why not see what Mr Chisholm or Mr Ergott have to offer (especially if the shop will take them back within 30 days)? Or give Joe a call. There is no substitute for getting advice from people who have been there and done that.

[mcteague]

To go from custom made Joe Young wheels to anything else might be a disappointment (except for custom made old potatoe's or custom built ergott's). I have three pairs of DT Swiss hubs / DT Swiss rims / Joe Young built wheels all made just for me, my weight and my riding style, and could not be happier.

If you have a new wheel itch, why not see what Mr Chisholm or Mr Ergott have to offer (especially if the shop will take them back within 30 days)? Or give Joe a call. There is no substitute for getting advice from people who have been there and done that.

Yeah, I am leaning towards that option. Truth be told, the Joe Young wheels I have are awesome. I'm just tempted to find something that allows a bit more comfort, as the new, wider rims claim (https://cyclingtips.com/2016/11/the-new-normal-the-thinking-behind-wide-road-wheels/). Not sure if this really allows the tire to sit better and allow a slightly lower air pressure or if that is just more marketing. I'm currently in contact with a local wheel builder, http://www.cutlasswheels.com/#home, and he has a pair of Boyd Altamont Lites with WI hubs he said I could borrow. That may answer my question once and for all.

Tim