Riding with a Mirror, yea or ney? [Archive]

Ray

09-16-2006, 07:54 AM

I've used both a helmet mounted mirror and an eyglass mounted mirror. The best one I've found is the Bike Peddler eyglass mirror. It's very well made from metal rods and uses brass tubes for pivot points. I have no problem adjusting the mirror so I can see the critical areas.

I always wear a mirror and have been able to move away from vehicles that I thought were coming too close.
That one is also sold as the "take a look" eyeglass mirror. I agree it's the best external eyeglass mirror out there. I use a little spot mirror that mounts on the inside of the eyeglass lens and I never ride without it. It eliminates the geek factor unless someone really looks close and it works perfectly. Two caveats though. If your eyesight is really bad, it won't work because you're not actually looking through your prescription lens. My eyes aren't great but it works fine for knowing when a car is approaching, although I wouldn't want to try to read the license plate. Second, it doesn't work well with radically wrapped around glasses. I use a relatively flat prescription lens and it works great, but if you're using wraparound cycling glasses, probably not the best option.

-Ray

onekgguy

09-16-2006, 09:21 AM

I use the same mirror Ray uses. It's very effective. Here's a link.

Kevin (http://www.hostelshoppe.com/cgi-bin/readitem.pl?Accessory=1053548449)

Frank

09-16-2006, 09:56 AM

MarcusPless

09-16-2006, 11:21 AM

znfdl

09-16-2006, 11:31 AM

Bobbo

09-16-2006, 12:08 PM

Most of my riding is commuting, frequently in high speed traffic. I really like a mirror for riding in this environment. While I always look back before making a move that might put me in front of a high speed vehicle, the mirror really helps me maintain situational awareness. I used to use a helmet mounted mirror, switched to an eyeglass mounted mirror, and finally switched to using this handlebar mounted mirror (http://cgi.ebay.com/Italian-Road-Bike-racing-mirror-Buy-It-Now_W0QQitemZ260006589217QQihZ016QQcategoryZ42319Q QtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem).

It doesn't look "that" bad, and it gives me a really great view of what's going on around me. No affiliation with the seller, just a satisfied customer.

--Marcus
I have recently tried this mirror also after not using a mirror for years. So far, it seems like a good compromise, with decent positioning and minimal "add-on" effect; kind of like it's part of the handlebars. Will it prevent an accident? Maybe, and lately I'm very interested in improving my odds. It's either that or riding the trainer 12 months a year.

SayHey

09-16-2006, 12:54 PM

I use the Take-A-Look mirror that Frank referenced (and have tried a number of different types). It takes practice to get adjusted just right, but works very well. I think I avoided some bad situations with this mirror and feel too exposed when I ride without it.

gone

09-16-2006, 01:40 PM

I used a mirror for years on all of my bikes. Typically one high in "geek factor" that mounted on the end of the bars. However, about a year ago I removed them from all of my bikes. Why? I suppose I suffer from "compulsive courtesy". If I looked in the mirror and saw a car coming, I'd pull over to the far right of the road. It eventually dawned on me that I was repeatedly getting passed on blind hills, blind curves, narrow roads with oncoming traffic, etc. In other words, I was being courteous but the drivers on the road weren't. I took the mirrors off and if I'm in a place where it's not safe for someone to pass, I'm in the middle of the lane. Yes, you could make a strong argument that I'd be better off with the increased situational awareness a mirror gives and just not pull over to the right if it's not safe but, for me, this way works better.

On a related topic, I never signal right hand turns (though I always signal lefts) after having cars going the same way as me and oncoming traffic turn right with me when I signal. I never stop at stop signs when the intersection is clear after being nearly rear ended on multiple occasions, not to mention having irate drivers scream at me because they lose a few seconds out of their valuable day. Iinterestingly enough, the number of drivers who scream at me if I don't stop seems to be about the same as the number who scream if I do stop.

In other words, I've responded to the training I've been given in lots of miles on the roads. It's all about safety - mine.

GregLR

09-16-2006, 05:17 PM

I've been using the Rhode Gear style of helmet mirror (now made by Blackburn) for the last 10 years. I use it to manage the traffic in those tight situations mentioned by ghsmith54 (eg, to move out a bit or take the lane to prevent being overtaken when it's not safe), though it does enable courtesy in other circumstances (eg, pulling over a bit to let vehicles pass when there's enough straight road and no oncoming traffic).

I'm so used to having information about what's happening behind me that I'm very uncomfortable if I have to ride without a mirror. "Turning your back on strangers who overtake you in high-speed vehicles is truly an act of faith" (taken slightly out of context from the "Bicycling Mexico" book by Weisbroth & Ellman).

Greg

swoop

09-16-2006, 05:31 PM

i'll cast the lone nay vote. focus on what's ahead of you, listen for what's going on around you, learn to look back without changing your line.. mirrors are pointless. look where you are going.

bironi

09-16-2006, 05:43 PM

But, some of my riding friends do. I have tried a few, but could never quite get comfortable with one. The only case where I really wanted one was during a summer tour on a very fast highway in a remote area of Eastern Oregon. The road was rough chipseal, and I wanted to take the smoother strip of pavement that heavy tire traffic creates. The speed of the traffic approaching from behind was too fast to rely on approaching road noise, and too nerve-racking to constantly look back. That said, some of the best riders in my circle use the "Take-a-look" model. It works well for them, but not for me. :beer:

onekgguy

09-16-2006, 05:55 PM

i'll cast the lone nay vote. focus on what's ahead of you, listen for what's going on around you, learn to look back without changing your line.. mirrors are pointless. look where you are going.

Do you use a mirror in your car? I've ridden with and without a mirror on my bike and I'd say that without question the benefits are there. Yeah, sure you have to watch where you're going...that's a given. When you're out there on roads with lots of debris on the shoulder and you're trying to cheat as much to the left as possible to stay in the less debris strewn portion a mirror can be a nice thing to have, especially for those times when you need to move out onto the road. I was on a highway today with an eight foot shoulder but there were places where the asphalt had crumbled and there were huge sections out of it. The mirror allowed me to focus on the road while giving a quick glance at those times when I needed to veer off the deteriorated shoulder.

All of my riding is done solo and so I suppose that plays into my decision to use a mirror.

Kevin

Ray

09-16-2006, 06:04 PM

i'll cast the lone nay vote. focus on what's ahead of you, listen for what's going on around you, learn to look back without changing your line.. mirrors are pointless. look where you are going.
Individual choice, no problem. But don't try to talk me out of mine. The only way I can see a mirror being a problem is if you rely on it to the exclusion of other information. Sometimes, even with a mirror, you have to turn and look. But if you learn to use it without relying on it totally, I see no downside at all. I don't always notice cars approaching in the mirror and I don't always hear approaching traffic, but between the two types of input, it's VERY rare that I'm surprised by an overtaking car. I know when to take the lane, when to move to the right, when to signal the car to wait and when, rarely, to wave it on by. Riding with a mirror is not a substitute for knowing how to ride in traffic, but it can sure contribute to riding more safely in traffic. As used to the mirror as I've gotten, on the rare ride when I end up without it, I feel like I'm in a car without having my safety belt on. Like something's wrong.

-Ray

swoop

09-16-2006, 06:12 PM

i think i'm allowed to have a different opinion... especially because opinions were sought. and i do use a mirror in my car. a bike is not a car and i drive with my eyes closed anyway. somehow i manage to ride 6-7 days a week every day less one week a year on the most highly congested/dangerous roads in the country... pch through malibu is no cakewalk car wise.
and i give guys with mirrors a wider berth than i do almost any other thing. frankly they scare me.

there is no situation that a mirror remedies. it gives the rider an incomplete view of what is behind him, a distracted view of what is in front, and a false sense of security while encouraging them to rely on ther mirror rather than good sense and positioning.

the only guys the swear by mirrors are the ******* that use them. they do look cool with an equally practical kickstand, saggy shorts, and a t-shirt.

H.Frank Beshear

09-16-2006, 06:58 PM

the only guys the swear by mirrors are the ******* that use them. they do look cool with an equally practical kickstand, saggy shorts, and a t-shirt.
Reply With Quote

How'd you know what I wear :rolleyes: , I live in the country on a good day I'll see 10 cars or less. Busy day maybe 50. I use the mirror so I can see if the redneck in the jacked up ford is going to be stupid or not. I have no shoulders or bike lanes just a 3"drop to a gravel and weed filled ditch. I use it when I ride alone, not in group rides or in the city. Do I have to use it no and if I rode as often as others here do I'd use it less. We had this discussion last year and I think we all came to the same conclusion. If it makes you feel safer use one. But learn how to look over your shoulder, someday you'll need to. Btw Swoop you missed a * :D .

Eric E

09-16-2006, 09:05 PM

- see the approaching cement truck with smoking tires as it tries unsuccessfully to slow down on that steep eastern Oregon hill, and to make room for raft company trailers along Colorado Rivers.

But even better, for me, is they provide an excellent aid in leading groups of cyclists. With a mirror, you can keep track of people behind you without herding them from the rear like a border collie. When leading a paceline, you can keep tabs of your pace and avoid blowing out your friends. Then again, that presumes that you cycle with the group in mind, not as an exercise in trying to drop people.

Personally, I find that a helmet mirror is best in that it vibrates less than a handlebar mirror and is always with me on rides when I wear the helmet, which is most rides. When I had one on my sun glasses, it would be removed for hiking, etc., and then I'd find myself on the bike with out the mirror. A guy (Chuck ???) in Ohio makes/made great ones out of a bent (to allow clamping on the helmet), rubber-coated spoke with an epoxied spoke nipple attached to a small hexagonal mirror.

My challenge is that my strong right eye requires that I mount it on the right side of my helmet, which gives me a bit of a blind spot (especially in the captain's position on a tandem!).

Best, Eric

wanderingwheel

09-16-2006, 09:33 PM

The one situation that I found a mirror to be helpful with is looking for trailers. If a car passes me towing a trailer, it's nice to know that I need to hold my line for an extra 2 seconds while the trailer passes. Otherwise, I haven't found any use for them, and in truth I haven't tried a mirror that actually worked. They either bounce too much or I catch myself drifting to the side while trying to study the tiny image in the mirror.

Louis

09-16-2006, 10:03 PM

it gives the rider an incomplete view of what is behind him

Swoop,

Like you, I do not use a mirror, but I've got to believe that a partial view is better than no view at all. I know, there are the other issues you mention, but seems to me like this is a weak counter-argument.

If they want to use them, fine. No reason to get all worked up and personal about it.

Louis

Peter P.

09-16-2006, 10:44 PM

I tried a helmet mounted mirror a few months ago (Blackburn). It only provided a rearward view while riding on the tops of the bars. In the drops it was useless due to my head/helmet's angle.

Discovering it would only be useful about half the time was enough to prompt me to take it off.

toaster

09-16-2006, 10:54 PM

After reading a few of these posts I still wonder how the heck a mirror can save your arse when the car that is going to kill you can get you in a microsecond regardless of what they appear to be a moment before they drift into you.

swoop

09-16-2006, 11:11 PM

don't you guys have necks?

onekgguy

09-16-2006, 11:13 PM

snip...somehow i manage to ride 6-7 days a week every day less one week a year on the most highly congested/dangerous roads in the country... pch through malibu is no cakewalk car wise.

Really...Do you get out much? Any NYC folks wanna speak up here?

and i give guys with mirrors a wider berth than i do almost any other thing. frankly they scare me.

What else scares you?

there is no situation that a mirror remedies.

Have you ever tried using one? I get the sense that you haven't.

the only guys the swear by mirrors are the ******* that use them. they do look cool with an equally practical kickstand, saggy shorts, and a t-shirt.

Ahhh...now we get to the real point...it's all about image. It's too bad you can't get beyond that because there are actually some good reasons for using one...that's why they require them in cars. :) I know that a bike isn't a car but it does share the road with them.

Kevin

swoop

09-17-2006, 12:26 AM

Really...Do you get out much? Any NYC folks wanna speak up here?

What else scares you?

Have you ever tried using one? I get the sense that you haven't.

Ahhh...now we get to the real point...it's all about image. It's too bad you can't get beyond that because there are actually some good reasons for using one...that's why they require them in cars. :) I know that a bike isn't a car but it does share the road with them.

Kevin

1k.. when someone asks for an opinion.. and someone has a different one than yours.... does it make you feel that bad? my opinion is valid. i stand by the points i'm making that aren't meant as silly. i truly believe every point i've made. and last time i checked, a bicycle is not a car. i happen to think my opinion is correct. you know some things i don't know.. maybe it's possible that same holds true for me. and yes, a mirror tends to be a signal for me to give someone a very wide berth.
yes it is a different view than yours and yes it contradicts yours. so?

rhetorical ? why do you think the uscf doesn't allow helmet mirrors in mass start events? the answer has nothing to do with them giving you an advantage.

Ray

09-17-2006, 07:14 AM

1k.. when someone asks for an opinion.. and someone has a different one than yours.... does it make you feel that bad? my opinion is valid. i stand by the points i'm making that aren't meant as silly. i truly believe every point i've made. and last time i checked, a bicycle is not a car. i happen to think my opinion is correct. you know some things i don't know.. maybe it's possible that same holds true for me. and yes, a mirror tends to be a signal for me to give someone a very wide berth.
yes it is a different view than yours and yes it contradicts yours. so?

rhetorical ? why do you think the uscf doesn't allow helmet mirrors in mass start events? the answer has nothing to do with them giving you an advantage.
Everyone's entitled to their opinion - I got not trouble with yours but you seem to have a problem with mine. We obviously each think our opninion is right, but when you start denigrating people with a different opinion, we tend to get our backs up just a bit. OK, you don't like mirrors and don't use them. Good enough. But then you say that you steer clear of anyone who uses them and equate them to baggy pants, t-shirts, and kickstands (not that there's anything wrong with those things either). If that was all a joke, it didn't come through that way.

I'm an adequate, but not great, group rider because I don't ride in groups all that much. But some of the best "A" group riders in my club use mirrors (and some don't) and it doesn't seem to hinder their group riding skills. Mirrors may not be practical or even all that safe for closed course racing but that's got bupkis to do with commuting in traffic.

Swoop, I respect your opnions. I've learned a lot from you about various racing issues based on your experience with that (and my lack of same). I don't have a problem with your opinion here, even though its different than mine. But the way you expressed this one is far more venomous and personal than the way you've expessed other opnions in the past. When you spit venom, you're likely to get some back in your face.

Oh yeah - one last thing. I have a neck and I know how to use it. But I can flick my eyeball a micron or two to the left a lot quicker and easier than I can turn my head. So I'm apt to do it a lot more often to scan the situation behind me. And then I turn my head when I don't think I'm getting enough of the picture from the mirror. This approach has kept me safe and upright for 10 years now and I'll probably stick with it, even when I'm not wearing baggy pants and a t-shirt and riding my kickstand equipped bike.

-Ray

Wayne77

09-17-2006, 10:23 AM

I don't use a mirror but I've thought about getting one for days when my rides take me on busy roads with fast moving traffic.

There is a common situation where the "use your neck" logic doesn't work: You're on a busy road with a 2-3' shoulder, speed limit > 40 mph, lots of traffic. The car with its front right wheel 2 feet into the bike lane is going to sound exactly the same as the car well outside the bike lane, unless there's alot of gravel on the shoulder. Is a rider going to look back _everytime_ one hears a car approaching? I doubt it. Even if one does happen to look back at the same time some idiot tuning the radio is barreling up behind you in the bike lane, I'd rather have my eyes forward looking for evasive manuevers rather than spend the extra second turning my head back around and miss whatever else may be in front of me.

Furthermore, I see guys with mirrors looking behind them all the time to change lanes, etc (there are clearly situations where a complete view of what's behind you requires looking back). Some of the anti-mirror logic I hear implies the rider with the mirror never looks back, which is false. I see the mirror as something to allow a rider, in certain situations where it is not feasible to look back constantly, to keep eyes ahead.

swoop

09-17-2006, 10:46 AM

well, it seems the only solution here is that i'm right and y'all are wrong. doesn't that feel better? come on over to my place, let me make you some brekkie and you can leave your mirrors with me. the world wil be better, you'll look radder, and i'll feel a lot better.

and i'm still serious that i think they do more harm than good... so, consider my one dissenting opinion to be what it is. the musing of a super sexy man that knows everything for you.

the word would suk if we all agreed dispassionately.

but my point is.. the look back makes the mirror redundant. if you feel something coming on you it is coming onto you. move over... if you are going to look back anyway.. then look back. you don't need the mirror and it can do more harm than good.

obtuse

09-17-2006, 11:18 AM

here's the deal; mirrors are the most mad painful "cycling" accessory this side of a giant red flag. if you are not aware of your surroundings, can't hold a line, somehow find the motor skills required to be able to look under your own armpit while riding a bike beyond your capabilities you have problems a stupid piece of dental equipment is not going to fix.

obtuse

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 11:33 AM

This thread is pointless. IMHO.

Fstrthnu

stevep

09-17-2006, 11:35 AM

pistols at 10 paces.
no other solution possible.

Ray

09-17-2006, 12:30 PM

pistols at 10 paces.
no other solution possible.
I'm in, and I'll damn straight be using a mirror! :cool:

-Ray

chrisroph

09-17-2006, 12:52 PM

I'm in, and I'll damn straight be using a mirror! :cool:

-Ray

How about 15 paces facing away from each other. Ray gets to use his mirror; swoop doesn't get one.

Kahuna

09-17-2006, 01:19 PM

There's two kinds of cyclists. Those who are too cool for mirrors, and those who have gotten over it.

Here's mine. It's called Sprintech. They're removable, weigh next to nothing and come in different colors. You can get `em from Chicagoland. They come in pairs - one for each handlebar end. I use left side only.

Kahuna

09-17-2006, 01:35 PM

don't you guys have necks?

The neck is a great thing. Here's a trick that works for me. Whenever a vehicle approaches me from behind. I give them a look over my shoulder twice. Once when they're about 75 meters behind me and another just before they pass. When the driver knows you're aware of them, they'll almost always give you a wider berth than if they just snuck up on you. Maybe they think you're going to turn I don't know but it works almost every single time. I figure I get an additional 1-3 feet of room that way.

Obviously you can't do this on a very busy street, but it works like a charm on less trafficed roads.

-K

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 02:43 PM

This thread is still pointless.

Fstrthnu

Kahuna

09-17-2006, 02:55 PM

This thread is still pointless.

Fstrthnu

It's just a way to pass time. That's all it is.

-K

Samster

09-17-2006, 03:01 PM

This thread is still pointless.

Fstrthnu+1

swoop

09-17-2006, 03:36 PM

two words: wide berth. end of story.
but my seat belt, reflectors, horn, and airbags are cool.

onekgguy

09-17-2006, 04:12 PM

A question for those who 'just say no' to mirrors...how much time have you ever spent riding with one?

Kevin

Ray

09-17-2006, 04:26 PM

This thread is still pointless.

Fstrthnu
I hate to prolong it, but how is this thread any more pointless than ANY thread where someone asks about a piece of equipment (saddles, shorts, handlebars, pedals, younameit) and gets various opinions about other people's experiences? In almost every case, the OP has to make the final judgement for themselves and, in most cases, it comes down to personal preference - there is no right answer. But sometimes someone's observations will help the OP consider something they might not have and help them make a decision.

That's more or less what happened here. The OP asked in the title Yay or Nay, but in the actual post indicated he was leaning pretty heavily toward trying a mirror and was more asking advice on types of mirrors. Which he got. As well as a couple of opinions against mirrors, which were also legit. Things got a little bit snippy, jokes were cracked, and we all found out that Swoop is a sexy stud with a flexy neck and possibly a long stem (we're not sure about that) - all pretty much par for the course. And maybe it helped the OP in his quest for better rearward vision.

How is it more pointless than anything else?

-Ray

toaster

09-17-2006, 04:58 PM

I love threads where we bash motorists. What better use of spare time than bashing each other's cycling eccentricities.
:bike:

vaxn8r

09-17-2006, 06:01 PM

I love threads where we bash motorists. What better use of spare time than bashing each other's cycling eccentricities.
:bike:

Then what fun would we have? Here's some of the things I've learned around here:

Bad: Thomson set back posts, 90 degree stems, prebuilt wheelsets, anything Shimano, glasses and helmet which make you "look like a bug", lycra = plastic, mountain bike shoes, black socks...

Good: Wool anything, Brooks Saddles, fixies (NOT single speeds) Campy anything (but prebuilt wheels), steel frames (anything from any year whether it's crap or not), knit gloves, custom anything, spokes (lots of them).

All in fun though...

Lunar Probe

09-17-2006, 06:47 PM

Here's mine. It's called Sprintech. They're removable, weigh next to nothing and come in different colors. You can get `em from Chicagoland. They come in pairs - one for each handlebar end. I use left side only.

I wonder if they're designed to cut down on tip vortices?

Louis

09-17-2006, 06:51 PM

I wonder if they're designed to cut down on tip vortices?

Only in the transonic Mach range.

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 07:06 PM

Then what fun would we have? Here's some of the things I've learned around here:

Bad: Thomson set back posts, 90 degree stems, prebuilt wheelsets, anything Shimano, glasses and helmet which make you "look like a bug", lycra = plastic, mountain bike shoes, black socks...

Good: Wool anything, Brooks Saddles, fixies (NOT single speeds) Campy anything (but prebuilt wheels), steel frames (anything from any year whether it's crap or not), knit gloves, custom anything, spokes (lots of them).

All in fun though...

Bad: anatomic bars, straight Thomson seatposts, sloping frames, bars higher than saddle, neon yellow vests, mirrors, brooks saddles, poseur/trendy bike messengers, high rise stems.

Good: italian made cycling clothing that matches, pro bars, italian frames, l30+stems, matching bottle cages, clean, maintained, safe, aero wheels, tubulars, shiny, custom frames that actually fit.

IMHO. I missed some things i'm sure.

Fstrthnu

onekgguy

09-17-2006, 07:25 PM

snip...I missed some things i'm sure.

What about mp3 players?

Kevin

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 07:29 PM

What about mp3 players?

Kevin

Oh yeah. Those are GOOD. While riding without a helmet, I like listing to Jonny Cash really loud, running red lights and getting hit by pickup trucks which traject me into a ditch and snap my carbon frame in two.

Maybe if I had a mirror that wouldn't have happened.

Fstrthnu

atmo

09-17-2006, 07:43 PM

Oh yeah. Those are GOOD. While riding without a helmet, I like listing to Jonny Cash really loud, running red lights and getting hit by pickup trucks which traject me into a ditch and snap my carbon frame in two.

Maybe if I had a mirror that wouldn't have happened.

Fstrthnu
man only today i realized that johhny cash covered
depeche mode's personal jesus (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/depeche+mode/personal+jesus_20039367.html) atmo. it was on at
the race venue. men in black rule iirc.

obtuse

09-17-2006, 07:44 PM

man only today i realized that johhny cash covered
depeche mode's personal jesus (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/depeche+mode/personal+jesus_20039367.html) atmo. it was on at
the race venue. men in black rule iirc.

no. men in baby blue/teal rule. at least today.

obtuse

atmo

09-17-2006, 07:47 PM

no. men in baby blue/teal rule. at least today.

obtuse

were you down at the river again atmo?

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 07:48 PM

man only today i realized that johhny cash covered
depeche mode's personal jesus (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/depeche+mode/personal+jesus_20039367.html) atmo. it was on at
the race venue. men in black rule iirc.

VH1 did a special on that today. I was watching it while you guys were hyper-venalating and flatting $80 tubulars.

Fstrthnu

atmo

09-17-2006, 07:52 PM

VH1 did a special on that today. I was watching it while you guys were hyper-venalating and flatting $80 tubulars.

Fstrthnu
nobody i know was hyper-venalating or even knows how to.
we were all on the catwalk what with the noir gig and all atmo.
very coco iirc.

H.Frank Beshear

09-17-2006, 07:52 PM

Oh yeah. Those are GOOD. While riding without a helmet, I like listing to Jonny Cash really loud, running red lights and getting hit by pickup trucks which traject me into a ditch and snap my carbon frame in two.

Maybe if I had a mirror that wouldn't have happened.

Fstrthnu

If only you had ridden a lugged steel frame it could have been repaired and ready to ride after they took the pins out of your legs. Of course the steel plate in your head makes it difficult to hear the mp3 now since you keep picking that oldies station and are forced to listen to the beach boys and the eagles for the rest of your days. Welcome to the hotel california. :crap:

obtuse

09-17-2006, 07:56 PM

If only you had ridden a lugged steel frame it could have been repaired and ready to ride after they took the pins out of your legs. Of course the steel plate in your head makes it difficult to hear the mp3 now since you keep picking that oldies station and are forced to listen to the beach boys and the eagles for the rest of your days. Welcome to the hotel california. :crap:

actually fstrthnu was hit by a plumber who fixed his plastic/carbon bike with hose clamps so he could ride home.

this is not a joke.

george hincapie walks into a bar and the bartender says "why the long face?"

is a joke.

obtuse

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 08:21 PM

If only you had ridden a lugged steel frame it could have been repaired and ready to ride after they took the pins out of your legs. Of course the steel plate in your head makes it difficult to hear the mp3 now since you keep picking that oldies station and are forced to listen to the beach boys and the eagles for the rest of your days. Welcome to the hotel california. :crap:

Actually. The guy who hit me fixed my bike with a piece of copper pipe and some plumbing clamps. I rode home. 50 miles. It sucked. But I did it. MP.

Fstrthnu

swoop

09-17-2006, 08:27 PM

man only today i realized that johhny cash covered
depeche mode's personal jesus (http://www.lyricsfreak.com/d/depeche+mode/personal+jesus_20039367.html) atmo. it was on at
the race venue. men in black rule iirc.

shoot. you can download that song on itunes. it's a fave.. cash does depeche, NIN, and U2!

sellsworth

09-17-2006, 09:36 PM

I can't ride on a road w/o a mirror. I love information and get lots of good information from my mirror.

This thread reminds me why I don't like going to LBSs - where you tend to meet snobby wannabe racing types who try to make rationale arguments why other people shouldn't use mirrors or wear bright clothing. In the age of monster SUVs and cell phones I wouldn't think of going out on the road without both.

gone

09-17-2006, 09:47 PM

shoot. you can download that song on itunes. it's a fave.. cash does depeche, NIN, and U2!
conclusive proof that there is no god.

Bobbo

09-17-2006, 09:48 PM

Actually. The guy who hit me fixed my bike with a piece of copper pipe and some plumbing clamps. I rode home. 50 miles. It sucked. But I did it. MP.

Fstrthnu

If this is true, we need to hear the WHOLE story. If it's not true, I have a used plumbing snake for you.

fstrthnu

09-17-2006, 10:12 PM

If this is true, we need to hear the WHOLE story. If it's not true, I have a used plumbing snake for you.

It was my first day back on the bike after a midseason week long break. I was REALLY motivated to string some 100mile days together as I was feeling really out of shape.
I set out for a hundred + mile loop heading from RI down into CT and back.
At almost exactly 50 miles into the ride I get T-boned by a truck. It was totally my fault as I was running a red light and had music playing on my i-nano. I flew into a ditch and the seatstay on my Calfee (training bike) was snapped like a toothpick. I get up a little bewildered and feel like a jack *** cuz it was totally my fault. I wasn't wearing a helmet either but thankfully for the way I landed I didn't hit my head hard, I DID break a few ribs though.
The guy who hit me was a red-neck type and after the initial shock of the accident was very calm after he realized that I wasn't going to give him a hard time for running into me.
The first thing in my mind was " i broke my ribs" the second was "i broke my bike" . The guy feels bad and after looking at my bike, decides he can fix it with some pipe. We load my bike into his truck, drive down his driveway, go to his garage and he fixes my bike by fitting a piece of pipe over the tube and securing it with pipe clamps. He asks me if I want to use his phone to call for a ride and then offers to give me a ride home, he was SHOCKED when I told him where I came from and even more shocked when I told him I was going to ride home.
I did just that. The remaing 50 miles up and down backroad hill to from CT to Providence, RI. To make it worse I get lost on the way home and that tacks on another 10 or so miles. All this in a lot of pain too. I didn't care. I was so fixated on finishing my ride. I blame this on going to Montesory school as a child.
I get home. My girlfriend was a nervous wreck and knew something happened. She takes me to the ER. Yup. Broken ribs, cant get out of the saddle when riding and it hurts like hell when you hit a bump. I rode 100 miles the next day and then again the day after. And then rode a bunch more then started racing again at Altoona. Ribs were still broken there too.

My Calfee is getting being repaired and I should be back on it in a month or so. I wont' install a mirror.

Fstrthnu

Louis

09-17-2006, 10:37 PM

Justin, they clearly short-changed you when they were handing out the brains, but made up for it by giving you plenty of guts. Scary story.

Louis

fstrthnu

09-18-2006, 06:32 AM

Justin, they clearly short-changed you when they were handing out the brains, but made up for it by giving you plenty of guts. Scary story.

Louis

HaHaHa...yeah... all those first class schools for nothing :rolleyes: !

Fstrthnu

stevep

09-18-2006, 06:55 AM

hey, maybe your parents can get their money back from the schools. obviously you did not get much.
just a thought.

fstrthnu

09-18-2006, 07:14 AM

hey, maybe your parents can get their money back from the schools. obviously you did not get much.
just a thought.

They already tried that... didn't work. We resolved I would pay them monthly installments for thirty years in addition to my Sallie Mae loans. Times are hard IMHO.

Fstrthnu

chrisroph

09-18-2006, 10:08 AM

It was my first day back on the bike after a midseason week long break. I was REALLY motivated to string some 100mile days together as I was feeling really out of shape.
I set out for a hundred + mile loop heading from RI down into CT and back.
At almost exactly 50 miles into the ride I get T-boned by a truck. It was totally my fault as I was running a red light and had music playing on my i-nano. I flew into a ditch and the seatstay on my Calfee (training bike) was snapped like a toothpick. I get up a little bewildered and feel like a jack *** cuz it was totally my fault. I wasn't wearing a helmet either but thankfully for the way I landed I didn't hit my head hard, I DID break a few ribs though.
The guy who hit me was a red-neck type and after the initial shock of the accident was very calm after he realized that I wasn't going to give him a hard time for running into me.
The first thing in my mind was " i broke my ribs" the second was "i broke my bike" . The guy feels bad and after looking at my bike, decides he can fix it with some pipe. We load my bike into his truck, drive down his driveway, go to his garage and he fixes my bike by fitting a piece of pipe over the tube and securing it with pipe clamps. He asks me if I want to use his phone to call for a ride and then offers to give me a ride home, he was SHOCKED when I told him where I came from and even more shocked when I told him I was going to ride home.
I did just that. The remaing 50 miles up and down backroad hill to from CT to Providence, RI. To make it worse I get lost on the way home and that tacks on another 10 or so miles. All this in a lot of pain too. I didn't care. I was so fixated on finishing my ride. I blame this on going to Montesory school as a child.
I get home. My girlfriend was a nervous wreck and knew something happened. She takes me to the ER. Yup. Broken ribs, cant get out of the saddle when riding and it hurts like hell when you hit a bump. I rode 100 miles the next day and then again the day after. And then rode a bunch more then started racing again at Altoona. Ribs were still broken there too.

My Calfee is getting being repaired and I should be back on it in a month or so. I wont' install a mirror.

Fstrthnu

I hope you got some good painkillers. Busted ribs hurt.

dave thompson

09-18-2006, 10:12 AM

I hope you got some good painkillers. Busted ribs hurt.
Percodan: you still hurt but you don't care.

Ginger

09-18-2006, 10:15 AM

A question for those who 'just say no' to mirrors...how much time have you ever spent riding with one?

Kevin

Mirrors on the bike make me car sick.

Tom

09-18-2006, 10:23 AM

I have ears.

72gmc

09-18-2006, 02:04 PM

Bad: mountain bike shoes, black socks...

Good: Wool anything

wow, i was ignoring this thread and missing out on some good education. i wear black wool socks with my mtn biking shoes... does that qualify as "half good"?

i have tried a helmet mirror and find it more distracting than useful. i may try one of the bar-end mirrors at some point. i have a hunch i just don't like mirrors on my bike, but three cute girls at home are three good reasons to choose safety over cool.

flydhest

09-18-2006, 02:22 PM

to those who think that everybody should use a mirror because it's clearly safer and insecure people don't because of aesthetics, I ask: do you also have one of those huge orange flags on your Ottrott? That would make your safer.

to those who think only dorks wear mirrors and that they are inherently worse riders I ask: do you know if they are safer than they would be without the mirror? Have you ridden with Ray? He always rides with a mirror is a safer/better cyclist than most I know.

To those who think, ***? I wear a mirror because it helps me OR ***? I don't use a mirror because I look behind me and can see, but why the fiick do I care if someone else wears one? . . . well, let's go for a ride.

swoop

09-18-2006, 02:47 PM

i think mirrors are less safe. the fred busting is a humorous afterthought. as a rule, mirrors make for wobbly easily distracted cyclist. atmo.
i am adamant (adam ant)? i am pushy about it because i want to give people the chance to be as good on a bike as they can be. in my experience the cyclist that i see riding with mirrors are a trainwreck on their bikes. i am sure there are exceptions to my experience.. but this is my experience.

i won't ride behind someone with a mirror. i am more cautious when passing someone with a mirror. and i would encourage cyclists to work on the basic skillsets to ride and feel safe without using one.
i've made my little point. i realize i've upset the mirror using folks here by suggesting obtusely that they are horrible on a bike... my point isn't to critique any individuals here... my point is to help someone at a crossroads become a cyclist rather than a fright on a bike.

i don't know any good cyclists personally that feel any different than i do. in fact i took an informal poll this sunday... and 100% agreed.
so i am encouraging the good fellow that started this thread to not get a mirror, and to work on listening, being aware of his environment, having a skillset on the bike that allows him to look behind and develop a greater attuned spacial awareness, and i am adding that mirrors detract from the very safety he is looking to achieve.

i am not saying this to bust anyones manbits. but i absolutely believe what i am saying to be true.

flydhest

09-18-2006, 03:10 PM

swoop-alicious,
I think what you're describing are bad cyclists. For me, mirrors aren't necessary because I can (and do) look behind me and keep a straight line. I ride through downtown D.C. traffic everyday without a mirror and look behind myself several times each block . I think that's the "right" way to ride because it works for me. I know lots of people who would try that and be half way across the road before getting a good look. They are not good bike handlers, in my view. Someone who is wobbly from looking in the mirror is likewise not a good cyclist. They are, in my ho, a hazard to themselves and others. Bad cycling comes in many forms.

That said, it may be the case that those with mirrors are less safe than those without on average. I have no data to back this up. Even if it were the case, however (and I'm not trying to argue that it is) there is nothing to suggest that it is the mirror per se, but that some large fraction of people who choose to use them are less good riders. Indeed the causality could go in that direction. Regardless, I suspect that your observations are tinted heavily by the fact that mirrors are very noticeable (with the exception of the one Ray uses--it's kind of cool, everyone should check it out) and so if you see bad behavior and you see the mirror, the link is reinforced. Much like many drivers say that cyclists disobey rules or ride unsafely. I think the ones they see doing it stick out more in their memory than those that ride safely.

Nevertheless, I think all parties involved would be served if you give cyclists with mirrors a wide berth. I can't imagine either party wants to talk with the other.

--edit--That said, I agree with your sentiment that the original poster should put in the effort you describe to be an aware cyclists. There is a paucity of them. Nevertheless, I know several extremely good, extremely accomplished cyclists that either use mirrors or don't think there's anything wrong with others using them . . . provided that safe cycling is practiced.

obtuse

09-18-2006, 03:12 PM

i've made my little point. suggesting obtusely that they are horrible on a bike...

see, and we used to just call it being a/the jerk.

obtuse

atmo

09-18-2006, 03:13 PM

hey if the man in black can cover depeche mode
i can cover swoop atmo. his antitude makes sense.
if one has a balance issue, i can concede. otherwise,
cycling is about that spacial awareness (great
descriptor atmo) that swoop talks about.

gone

09-18-2006, 03:15 PM

i am adamant (adam ant)?
The latest photo of swoop.

swoop

09-18-2006, 03:33 PM

lordy.. i saw them at the palladium way back in the day when i had hair to spare.
here's the best mirror and the only mirror you'll need on your rig:

Cary Ford

09-18-2006, 03:59 PM

Mirrors+cyclists=scary.

Swoop+mirrors=disco.

Ray

09-18-2006, 04:04 PM

That said, it may be the case that those with mirrors are less safe than those without on average. I have no data to back this up. Even if it were the case, however (and I'm not trying to argue that it is) there is nothing to suggest that it is the mirror per se, but that some large fraction of people who choose to use them are less good riders. Indeed the causality could go in that direction. Regardless, I suspect that your observations are tinted heavily by the fact that mirrors are very noticeable (with the exception of the one Ray uses--it's kind of cool, everyone should check it out) and so if you see bad behavior and you see the mirror, the link is reinforced. Much like many drivers say that cyclists disobey rules or ride unsafely. I think the ones they see doing it stick out more in their memory than those that ride safely.

Nevertheless, I think all parties involved would be served if you give cyclists with mirrors a wide berth. I can't imagine either party wants to talk with the other.
I think this is about right. At the 'higher' end of the sport, that with highly accomplished, very skilled riders, there are probably more folks who don't use mirrors than those who do. A lot of us who do aren't racing - we're mixing it up with traffic every day and are just different types of cyclists than you see at the elite racing or club levels. But we can be very smart and safe riders for the kind of riding we do. I ride with other 'B' level riders when I do group rides and there are plenty of very good/safe riders at that level and plenty of total idiots. There are plenty of both types that ride with mirrors and plenty of both types who ride without 'em. I don't see a higher percentage either way. I may be wrong but I'm guessing most 'A' level riders wouldn't have gotten to that level to begin with if they were real idiots on the bike and, with the emphasis on racing at that level, are less likely to try mirrors.

Swoop, if you ever rode up behind me, you wouldn't know I had a mirror. Nobody ever sees mine until we're standing around at a rest stop and someone may notice the little black spot on my glasses (if the light's low enough and they haven't gone all dark). And you might not give me a wide enough berth for your comfort. But relax, I've only taken one guy down in all the years I've been riding. And he had a nasty little habit of going down for almost any reason at almost any time. The guy just couldn't stay upright. I don't think he used a mirror either, come to think of it. Not that I'm suggesting cause and effect. I'd talk to you anyway, but you'd probably go by me too fast for any real conversation to take place. I'm a safe and solid rider with a LOT of crash free miles under my belt, but nobody will ever accuse me of being fast.

-Ray

Wayne77

09-18-2006, 04:23 PM

Good points Swoop, fstrthnu, I agree that letting any piece of equipment subsitute for natural awareness of the environment is not a good thing. I don't use a mirror but there's one situation noted in my earlier post that still bugs me: Heavy traffic going 45-50mph, 2-3' shoulder. Help me out here..I obviously can't look back every one to two seconds a car pases and listening does no good since there is no sound difference whether the car is where it should be or whether it is 3 feet over, ready to run me down. Not to mention that the general noise of busy traffic makes it so you don't hear a vehicle until they are on top of you. In situations like this you get that unescapable thought, "wow, it's a good thing the driver of that suv that just flew by at 50mph hadn't been tuning the radio or dialing a number on the cell phone - I'd be dead"

Maybe it's just an accepted risk and there's not much one can do..or maybe I should be doing everything I can to watch out for situations like this so I can come home to my family?

I can hold a line and I can handle my bike in a pack, but as straight and true as one rides on the shoulder of a busy road, there is nothing I, nor you, will be able to do if just one of hundreds of cars passing by every second at 50mph happens to be 2' further to the right - you won't hear it and you won't see it.

But I do agree that in most other instances that require situational awarenes (looking back to turn or change lanes, dodge a car pulling out in front of you, passing other cyclists, etc) relying on a mirror is less safe.

JasonH

09-18-2006, 04:27 PM

Bottom line:
A mirror will not make you a better/good cyclist.

A mirror will not make you any worse either.

To argue anything else is just silly.

And if you think they offer an incomplete view of the road behind you, then you've only seen one adjusted improperly. They certainly offer more view than looking under your armpit as was suggested at one point. And they let you at least peripherally see what may be pulling out in front of you, which turning does not.

atmo

09-18-2006, 04:39 PM

Ray

09-18-2006, 04:44 PM

I don't use a mirror but there's one situation noted in my earlier post that still bugs me: Heavy traffic going 45-50mph, 2-3' shoulder. Help me out here..I obviously can't look back every one to two seconds a car pases and listening does no good since there is no sound difference whether the car is where it should be or whether it is 3 feet over, ready to run me down. Not to mention that the general noise of busy traffic makes it so you don't hear a vehicle until they are on top of you. In situations like this you get that unescapable thought, "wow, it's a good thing the driver of that suv that just flew by at 50mph hadn't been tuning the radio or dialing a number on the cell phone - I'd be dead"

Let me change sides for a minute here. The odds that you'd be much better off with a mirror in that particular situation is infintesimally (sp?) small. That's just a dangerous situation. There's an outside chance that you'd scan behind you at just the right second to see that happening, but when there's that much traffic, there would be no warning to make you look. When I use a mirror, I still depend on sound to alert me that there's something in the neighborhood and I quickly glance in the mirror to see what it is, whether it's approaching at a reasonable speed, whether it's moving over to pass me, etc. And if I need more information, I turn my head. Sometimes I turn my head anyway just to make sure they KNOW I'm aware of them. When the noise is constant, like in the situation you describe, I'm scanning periodically, but far from constantly. And with that big a speed differential and too close proximity, you just have to be lucky, mirror or not.

-Ray

swoop

09-18-2006, 04:50 PM

i have a velcro attached helmet mounted reward facing dwarf. he flips off oncoming cars and kicks me on the neck when i need to move over.

atmo

09-18-2006, 04:52 PM

i have a velcro attached helmet mounted reward facing dwarf. he flips off oncoming cars and kicks me on the neck when i need to move over.
campy or shimano atmo?

flydhest

09-18-2006, 04:53 PM

i have a velcro attached helmet mounted reward facing dwarf. he flips off oncoming cars and kicks me on the neck when i need to move over.

dude,
I got mine at Nashbar for $13.95. He has a beard that we dyed and braided.

atmo

09-18-2006, 04:54 PM

dude,
I got mine at Nashbar for $13.95. He has a beard that we dyed and braided.
dreadlock or kryptonite atmo?

Wayne77

09-18-2006, 05:21 PM

i have a velcro attached helmet mounted reward facing dwarf. he flips off oncoming cars and kicks me on the neck when i need to move over.

Sorry bud, you need the upgraded model. Much better with the "spatial awareness"

Wayne77

09-18-2006, 05:33 PM

Let me change sides for a minute here. The odds that you'd be much better off with a mirror in that particular situation is infintesimally (sp?) small. That's just a dangerous situation.

I just wish there weren't so many "dangerous situations" I have to ride through to get where I wanna go. oh well.. The narrow shoulders around here + soccer moms angry due to bad hair days / frustrated with long checkout lines at Walmart, wanting to take out said frustrations on anything smaller than the front grille of their Escalade = bad situation for cyclists.

Ginger

09-18-2006, 06:35 PM

what about those feeler guage thingies they
put on bumpers to let cars know when they're
parking near a curb? added to a bicycle they'd give
a user a wider birth and give protection from the
dreaded driver-from-behind. it would help solve
the spacial relationship issues too atmo.

Not so fast bucko! Way back when, a friend of mine brought an orange bicycle flag back from the Netherlands. Only it attached to the left chainstay and stuck out horizontally about 2' from the bike.
Extremely dorky, but for some reason that little piece of plastic caused drivers to give the bike plenty of room.
Maybe they were afraid of scratching their car?

atmo

09-18-2006, 06:48 PM

Not so fast bucko! Way back when, a friend of mine brought an orange bicycle flag back from the Netherlands. Only it attached to the left chainstay and stuck out horizontally about 2' from the bike.
Extremely dorky, but for some reason that little piece of plastic caused drivers to give the bike plenty of room.
Maybe they were afraid of scratching their car?
hey - i was serious bucko atmo.

Fixed

09-18-2006, 06:56 PM

bro why a mirror? just make sure you look good before you go out.
cheers

atmo

09-18-2006, 07:04 PM

bro why a mirror? just make sure you look good before you go out.
cheers
fixed that is why you are the chairman of the board atmo

obtuse

09-18-2006, 07:09 PM

bro why a mirror? just make sure you look good before you go out.
cheers

dude-

you're the buster poindexter of men.

obtuse

GregLR

09-18-2006, 08:06 PM

Seana Hogan, 6-time winner of RAAM and many other ultracycling events:

"...I lost my helmet mirror walking into the hotel. I imagine one of the casino goers picked it up thinking it might be valuable and then tossed it (betcha it was the lucky crewmember). Anyhow, Susan loaned me her helmet so that I had a mirror until mine arrived from Wyatt two days later. I cannot ride comfortably without a mirror." http://pactour.com/hogan97.htm

Seana's palmares: http://www.ultracycling.com/about/hof_hogan.html

Ray

09-18-2006, 08:25 PM

Ginger

09-18-2006, 08:43 PM

hey - i was serious bucko atmo.
I should have known...You probably have a set of them...NOS campy?

atmo

09-18-2006, 08:45 PM

I should have known...You probably have a set of them...NOS campy?
that's an agitation situation right there atmo

guyintense

09-19-2006, 10:47 AM

maybe if this guy had been using a mirror....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqZmhLz3Eas&mode=related&search=

coylifut

09-19-2006, 11:18 AM

dude-

you're the buster poindexter of men.

obtuse

"some people like to pick up girls and get called 'a$$hole'...this never happened to Pablo Picasso".

Lincoln

09-19-2006, 01:55 PM

maybe if this guy had been using a mirror....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqZmhLz3Eas&mode=related&search=

Was that swoop's dwarf doing the filming?

Swoop, you may have been trying to offer guidance and not bust on anyone but your 'tude suggests otherwise.

Ozz

09-19-2006, 02:51 PM

"some people like to pick up girls and get called 'a$$hole'...this never happened to Pablo Picasso".
One two three four five six
Roadrunner roadrunner
Going faster miles an hour
Gonna ride by the Stop-n-Shop
With the radio on
I'm in love with the modern world
I'm in touch I'm a modern girl
New York City when it's late at night
I got the radio on
I'm like a roadrunner yeah

swoop

09-19-2006, 03:16 PM

Was that swoop's dwarf doing the filming?

Swoop, you may have been trying to offer guidance and not bust on anyone but your 'tude suggests otherwise.

and we wouldn't want to offend the fredericks. if anyones feelings are injured by anything in this post. it's time to step away from the computer and look in the big mirror in your bathroom and ask yourself what's up.

really.

atmo

09-19-2006, 03:26 PM

and we wouldn't want to offend the fredericks.
aw. offend me atmo.
and then make me feel pretty (http://www.fredericks.com/default.asp?vP=WMLGBCS01&roiid=691&gclid=CM-Dx8HEuocCFTk7FQodqEtHJQ&cookie%5Ftest=1).

guyintense

09-19-2006, 04:01 PM

aw. offend me atmo.
and then make me feel pretty (http://www.fredericks.com/default.asp?vP=WMLGBCS01&roiid=691&gclid=CM-Dx8HEuocCFTk7FQodqEtHJQ&cookie%5Ftest=1).

Maybe you would prefer these.
http://pez.multiply.com/recipes/item/4

atmo

09-19-2006, 04:09 PM

Maybe you would prefer these.
http://pez.multiply.com/recipes/item/4
ouch-ee-mama atmo

snipped:
Directions:
Using backwards loop method, CO 3 sts.
Beg with a RS row, work in St st for 4 rows.
CO 1 st at beg of next two rows. [5 sts]
Work even for 3 rows.
CO 1 st at beg of next 2 rows. [7 sts]
Work even for 3 rows. Do not BO.

beg with a RS row????????

swoop

09-19-2006, 04:21 PM

woot!

onekgguy

09-19-2006, 08:42 PM

Hey Swoop...

http://images.despair.com/products/demotivators/compromise.jpg

Kevin

bironi

09-19-2006, 09:23 PM

He has a mirror up his sleeve.

rwsaunders

09-22-2006, 09:25 PM

I've been pleased with my bar end mirrors. They grip the inside of the bar very well, as we have some rough roads around here. They also have a pretty wide field of vision.

swoop

09-22-2006, 11:48 PM

let's make it safer. why draw the line at the mirror? with training wheels you don't have to ever worry about developing balance and therefore you reduce the risk of falling over. i'm willing to bet a lot of bike injuries come from falling over. :p

Ginger

09-23-2006, 12:00 AM

WHO dug this up?

I'm not too sure about adding anything to my bike that can be used as a corner flag in a field...I *have* when required...but not on a regular basis...
From a flag site offering bicycle flags: "Pole & Flag only are also available without mounting hardware for alternate uses, i.e. corner flags on Soccer fields."

You know... you guys are lucky you can even consider using a mirror -or not- as a choice... As I said, I really can't use a mirror because looking at it while riding makes me motion sick (mirrors make me car sick...it wasn't a joke). I have found the only workable answer is to never look at it.