Through axles for dummies?

[paredown]

Saw the PSA for the Strong, and posters noted the lack of through axles as a deal-breaker.

Anyone want to try for the short version of the how and why of through axles?

(Presume I know nothing about disk set ups, because that would be correct.)

Thanks!

[fignon's barber]

Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w6uqN_Pips

[josephr]

understanding thru-axles isn't that hard, especially after having a bike that had them and then take the wheel off. Are they better? I dunno....personally I think they're completely over-rated as since folks have been using tried and true QR skewers forever with few problems. The marketing materials say thru axles allow carbon fiber fork designers to optimize stiffness without accommodating QR clamping force/flex....plus also lightens the fork as there's no more lawyer tabs. :rolleyes:

Lots of gobbledy-gook out there ---- if I saw a sweet deal on a used bike, lack of thru-axles wouldn't stop me. But, if I was a guy shelling out $3k-$5k, I might be a bit more insistent about having the latest greatest.

[paredown]

Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w6uqN_Pips

Excellent! :banana:

Are there standard lengths, or is it going the way of bottom bracket "standards"?

[FriarQuade]

Excellent! :banana:

Are there standard lengths, or is it going the way of bottom bracket "standards"?

While the over locknut lengths are one of a few options the actual length of the axle is all over the map. Thread pitch is one of 4 options as well. TLDR, don't loose your factory supplied thru axle, they can be a pain to replace.

[oldpotatoe]

understanding thru-axles isn't that hard, especially after having a bike that had them and then take the wheel off. Are they better? I dunno....personally I think they're completely over-rated as since folks have been using tried and true QR skewers forever with few problems. The marketing materials say thru axles allow carbon fiber fork designers to optimize stiffness without accommodating QR clamping force/flex....plus also lightens the fork as there's no more lawyer tabs. :rolleyes:

Lots of gobbledy-gook out there ---- if I saw a sweet deal on a used bike, lack of thru-axles wouldn't stop me. But, if I was a guy shelling out $3k-$5k, I might be a bit more insistent about having the latest greatest.

‘Probably’ a good idea with disc brakes. For wheel retention, stiffness and for ensuring rotor is the right place each time. No personal experience, own no disc stuff. But going the way of B.B. ‘standards’, not quite as bad but it’s early.:)

[fignon's barber]

‘Probably’ a good idea with disc brakes. For wheel retention, stiffness and for ensuring rotor is the right place each time. No personal experience, own no disc stuff. But going the way of B.B. ‘standards’, not quite as bad but it’s early.:)

This. I've got a disc cross bike with QR. I can flex the fork when standing to make the rotor hit the pads.
As for road bikes, I would personally hold off a few years. Discs are in their infancy, and my guess is a that a disc road bike will look very different in 4 or 5 years as they iron out the kinks.

[berserk87]

Try this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4w6uqN_Pips

Thanks for posting this. This brought me up to speed on this through axle business.

[eBAUMANN]

Discs are in their infancy, and my guess is a that a disc road bike will look very different in 4 or 5 years as they iron out the kinks.

What would you say are the "kinks" that exist for road disc that dont/didnt for mtb/cx?

Besides the industry-standard kink of having too many damn "standards"... I cant really see them evolving all that far from the current DA/eTap flat-mount forms.
T-A's were ironed out long before they came to CX (let alone road) bikes...then they were unnecessarily f*cked with in the name of "innovation" because the industry has to find a way to make a buck...

T-A are great. QR's work fine, yes, but T-A are just a bit fine-er.

[ergott]

This is the best resource for compatibility.
http://blog.fairwheelbikes.com/reviews-and-testing/high-end-skewer-review/all-about-thru-axles/

[ptourkin]

What would you say are the "kinks" that exist for road disc that dont/didnt for mtb/cx?

Besides the industry-standard kink of having too many damn "standards"... I cant really see them evolving all that far from the current DA/eTap flat-mount forms.
T-A's were ironed out long before they came to CX (let alone road) bikes...then they were unnecessarily f*cked with in the name of "innovation" because the industry has to find a way to make a buck...

T-A are great. QR's work fine, yes, but T-A are just a bit fine-er.

This. Discs, TAs, 1x are not new things although people here are freaking out as they are applied to the road. They've been thoroughly worked through in MTB and the road applications are already pretty consistent. Now that Shimano has declared flat-mount to be the standard, that's what we're seeing. This is how bikes are going to look for the lifetime of 9100 and probably the next-gen too. If you want to see the next few years of road bikes, look at the new Cannondale Synapse. This is how everything will be.

https://cdn-cyclingtips.pressidium.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/IMG_5630.jpg

[William]

New rack mounts for the car as well....:crap:







William

[fignon's barber]

What would you say are the "kinks" that exist for road disc that dont/didnt for mtb/cx?

Besides the industry-standard kink of having too many damn "standards"...


I would say probable real application issues. I've read reports of high speed shuddering on some disc frames. It would make sense given the additional torque placed on the fork that some of that force would transfer to the frame and place different demands on the frame. Many bike makers are so quick to jump on the disc bandwagon that they are simply slapping disc mounts on existing designs. There aren't many disc road bikes on the road and road application is different from mtb (higher speeds, more aerodynamics, importance of road feel). It's only logical that design will evolve..
Secondly, as you mentioned, the "standards kink". I still don't forgive the bike industry for the press fit BB. Is it 12mmor 15mm? Is it Beta or VHS?
I'm not against disc at all. I'll just let the dust settle and see what evolves.

[ntb1001]

New rack mounts for the car as well....:crap:







WilliamThis....

I guess any fork mount rack is obsolete.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[eBAUMANN]

I'm not against disc at all. I'll just let the dust settle and see what evolves.

For me, the dust settled a long time ago (as far as T-A's are concerned) on 15mm front and 142x12mm rear.

Why?

Because these numbers represent a perfect middle ground, the center of the Venn diagram for road/cx/mtn.

Maybe if you only have one of each of these bikes, standardization doesnt matter as much to you, but for me, its a godsend.
similar to the cross-compatibility of 11s drivetrains.

Unfortunately, things that are good for the consumer are rarely good for the industry, and so, another standard (or 3) have been foisted upon us in the name of "innovation" :rolleyes:

Give me the choice of standardizing wheels across every bike I own and a 10g weight savings on a 12mm thru axle...yea, i know what im picking ;)

[cachagua]

I've got a disc cross bike with QR. I can flex the fork when standing to make the rotor hit the pads.


Can you *not* do this with the same fork in through-axle version? With a different QR fork? Et cetera, et cetera.

In other words, can the benefits ascribed to through-axle be definitively isolated to through-axle.

Not that I'm an opponent, I just know how hard it is to be certain about practically anything on your bike.

[MaraudingWalrus]

This....

I guess any fork mount rack is obsolete.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

There are adapters out there. Maybe $35-50 depending on how nice of one you want. Think RockyMounts makes one that's the most universal of the various options.

[jimoots]

What would you say are the "kinks" that exist for road disc that dont/didnt for mtb/cx?

Besides the industry-standard kink of having too many damn "standards"... I cant really see them evolving all that far from the current DA/eTap flat-mount forms.
T-A's were ironed out long before they came to CX (let alone road) bikes...then they were unnecessarily f*cked with in the name of "innovation" because the industry has to find a way to make a buck...

T-A are great. QR's work fine, yes, but T-A are just a bit fine-er.

The key issue with road disc is the tight tolerances at the pad/disc and lack of adjustability (or crude forms of adjustability) which results in “pinging” - or brake pad hitting warped disc syndrome.

On MTB and cx there’s so much going on that it’s not noticeable or a big deal.

On the road it’s more significant and annoying.

It doesn’t happen on all disc bikes but it does happen. Enough for a pal in the biz to comment that it’s the new press fit BB; he has some fun explaining to customers who’ve just lashed $10k on the latest and greatest that their pads are hitting the rotor and “that’s just how it is”.

[ColonelJLloyd]

The key issue with road disc is the tight tolerances at the pad/disc and lack of adjustability (or crude forms of adjustability) which results in “pinging” - or brake pad hitting warped disc syndrome.

On MTB and cx there’s so much going on that it’s not noticeable or a big deal.

On the road it’s more significant and annoying.

It doesn’t happen on all disc bikes but it does happen. Enough for a pal in the biz to comment that it’s the new press fit BB; he has some fun explaining to customers who’ve just lashed $10k on the latest and greatest that their pads are hitting the rotor and “that’s just how it is”.

Can you cite some specific examples? This sounds like complete misinformation.

[GonaSovereign]

For me, the dust settled a long time ago (as far as T-A's are concerned) on 15mm front and 142x12mm rear.



Agreed.

(And I wish it ended there.)

But then is your front 15mm DT, Magura, Fox, Maxle, Rock Shox, and which thread pitch? Which thread length. Standard or boost?

And then your back 142. Is that boost or not? Syntace x-12, x-12 boost, Maxle, Maxle boost, maxle ABP/ABP Boost, Shimano E-thru, etc.

It's a clusterF that makes the BB situation seem normal.

...but I quite like my 15mm DT front, X-12 rear, for what it's worth.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Thru axle compatibility is only difficult or cumbersome if you allow it to be. Once you mate the axle to your frame or fork you're done. Pretty simple. If it's beyond you just take it to an LBS, have them tell you and then write it down somewhere. Keep a note in your phone or your wallet or something, I dunno.

[William]

The key issue with road disc is the tight tolerances at the pad/disc and lack of adjustability (or crude forms of adjustability) which results in “pinging” - or brake pad hitting warped disc syndrome.

On MTB and cx there’s so much going on that it’s not noticeable or a big deal.

On the road it’s more significant and annoying.

It doesn’t happen on all disc bikes but it does happen. Enough for a pal in the biz to comment that it’s the new press fit BB; he has some fun explaining to customers who’ve just lashed $10k on the latest and greatest that their pads are hitting the rotor and “that’s just how it is”.


It occasionally happens on the front wheel of my MTB and it annoys the crap out of me. I have to take tension of the QR, reset, and then it may be okay for a while before it starts up again. Don't get me wrong, I like the discs but I hate the rub.





William

[jimoots]

Can you cite some specific examples? This sounds like complete misinformation.

Ummmmm... ask anyone who’s spent more than a short period of time with a bike with discs.

Google road bike disc brake rubbing etc. It’s “normal”.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Ummmmm... ask anyone who’s spent more than a short period of time with a bike with discs.

Google road bike disc brake rubbing etc. It’s “normal”.

I've spent more than a short period of time with disc brakes. I don't understand what you're suggesting is the issue if it's not poor setup or rotors that are out of true.

You said that road calipers have less clearance than MTB calipers. Where did you get that info?

[oldpotatoe]

Can you cite some specific examples? This sounds like complete misinformation.

Snick, snick, snick of rotor on some disc brakes? Hardly misinformation.

[eBAUMANN]

Ummmmm... ask anyone who’s spent more than a short period of time with a bike with discs.

Google road bike disc brake rubbing etc. It’s “normal”.

Its only normal if your brakes arent adjusted properly or your rotor is out of true or un-evenly torqued (if 6-bolt).
Also might be an issue caused by alignment issues between caliper and frame mounting points/adaptors, which can all be faced with the proper tools.
You can also add conical washers to the whole arrangement to further dial in the angle of the caliper should the pinging persist.

I ride my cx bike as a road bike for about 1/3 of the year (the winter/spring) and its exactly as quiet as any caliper-braked bike I own.

[jimoots]

I've spent more than a short period of time with disc brakes. I don't understand what you're suggesting is the issue if it's not poor setup or rotors that are out of true.

You said that road calipers have less clearance than MTB calipers. Where did you get that info?

Same clearances on road and MTB. Which are tight. On both.

The headaches I’ve had addressing the issues of discs don’t happen with a rim brake. Rotors warping temperamentally, tolerances tightening with heat, etc.

And hey, if you’re having fun with it, cool. But I’ve got a couple of bikes (and a few more I no longer own) here that are well set up that will intermittently make noises that they shouldn’t.

[ergott]

Rotor choice can go a long way towards keeping things quiet. A stiff aluminium carrier is morely likely to keep rotor true. There are also floating rotors, but I haven't tried them.

I've found Ice Tech rotors to be silent even after years of use.

[eBAUMANN]

Rotor choice can go a long way towards keeping things quiet. A stiff aluminium carrier is morely likely to keep rotor true. There are also floating rotors, but I haven't tried them.

I've found Ice Tech rotors to be silent even after years of use.

i used hope floating rotors for a bit 2 cx seasons ago...was not overly impressed...kinda noisey...but likely not a problem inherent with the design, just the particular material/pattern/conditions these ones were subject to.

been using sram centerline and various icetech/freeza rotors ever since, no issues to report.