Aluminum Freehub Gouging

[ColonelJLloyd]

I know this is a semi common issue, but it's my first experience with stuck cassette cogs. Rear hub is SRAM 900. It has only a few hundred miles of single track use with XT 32 x 11-42t drivetrain. I removed the XT cassette to loan my wheels to a friend for a bikepacking trip we did recently. Before I put his brand new 10s 11-32t Shimano 105 cassette on I did notice that the freehub had bite marks from 6-7 of the largest cogs on a couple of the splines. I figured this was normal and attributable to the large cogs of the 1x11 drivetrain.

After the trip I go to put the wheels back on my MTB with my cassette and I had the toughest time I've had yet removing a lock ring and then the largest 9 cassette cogs wouldn't budge. I had to remove the freehub body, place the body through the jaws of a vise and use a mallet over a piece of a wooden dowel to knock the freehub body through the cassette cogs.

FWIW, here are some facts about this setup:

I don't use a torque wrench on cassette lock rings and never have. Have never had an issue yet and I get them pretty damn tight
My friend who borrowed the wheelset is a big dude and is always pushing a big gear; no spinning for this guy
He was using a 39/26 double to 11-32t 10s drivetrain on a first gen Fargo
We were fully loaded giving it hell on rooty, rocky single track

Isn't this only going to get worse if I continue to use this carrier? I'll call SRAM and see if they have a steel carrier that will work with this hub. In the meantime is it really ok to use a file to smooth out the ridges and reinstall the 11-42t 11s cassette?

Why the hell don't all freehub bodies have a damned steel bite guard?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4500/37615534116_90e8033863_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ZiXrME)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/ZiXrME) by ColonelJLloyd (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51002114@N03/), on Flickr
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[sales guy]

Super common. And it shouldn't get worse. Just flatten the ridges down smooth and use it. It should stay that way. You might get a slight ridge. But nothing like what you have now.

The steel bite guard, they didn't realize it would be a problem mainly cause the cogs were all bolted tight. Not single cogs loose. That's the problem. The SRAM cog has a single bolt thru it, unless you pulled it. But when you have all 3 bolts in like on a SHimano, and have spacers with splines, it doesn't happen. So they didn't know. Now they do. And they have the bite guards.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Thanks. I'm a little confused at what you're telling me, though. This freehub doesn't have a steel bite guard (Velocity hubs are the only ones I've had that did) and this hub has never seen a SRAM cassette, only XT and 105.

[dustyrider]

Take a fine tooth file to any ridge preventing easy cassette body movement and you’re good. I’ve used other things before, but the fine tooth file is quick and easy.

[sales guy]

Thanks. I'm a little confused at what you're telling me, though. This freehub doesn't have a steel bite guard (Velocity hubs are the only ones I've had that did) and this hub has never seen a SRAM cassette, only XT and 105.


American Classic, Hunt, Velocity and a bunch of others have a bite guard. I wasn't saying this hub did. Just saying that many offer it now.

I was just saying that SRAM cassettes have a single pin thru the cogs. It allows them to move more on freehub bodies. Wasn't saying the one you used was. Just listing the information about the cogs.

When you have individual cogs, they bite hard into the body. If you can bolt them together, that helps alleviate the issue. You will still have some of it. But it won't be as bad.

[fa63]

Take a fine tooth file to any ridge preventing easy cassette body movement and you’re good. I’ve used other things before, but the fine tooth file is quick and easy.


+1. HED wheels have pretty soft aluminum freehubs as well, so I had to do this occasionally.

Or you can get some White Industries or Dura Ace hubs with titanium freehub bodies :)

[45K10]

I had the same problem with a freehub from a Spank wheel and a Shimano cassette. I was changing out a broken axle so the freehub had to come off anyway but it took some force to get the cassette off.

[tv_vt]

Never understood why consumers bought into AL freehubs. Really like that Shimano, Campy, WI, Mavic, and some others only offer steel or ti freehubs. Worth the extra weight to me.
Sorry for the thread drift.

[oldpotatoe]

Never understood why consumers bought into AL freehubs. Really like that Shimano, Campy, WI, Mavic, and some others only offer steel or ti freehubs. Worth the extra weight to me.
Sorry for the thread drift.

Mavic is steel, WI and shimano(DA), ti but Campag aluminum but deep spline..which helps a lot. Shimano tried this with 7800 hubs, deep spline and aluminum but reverted back to TI or steel with later models(7850, ultegra, etc)..

BUT shallow spline, aluminum=gouging...particularly with some lower dig. hubs and soft FH bodies..Aluminum cheap and 'light'..as with a lot of bike stuff, all you can really 'measure' is weight and price..

[ColonelJLloyd]

Never understood why consumers bought into AL freehubs. Really like that Shimano, Campy, WI, Mavic, and some others only offer steel or ti freehubs. Worth the extra weight to me.
Sorry for the thread drift.

At least in my case this isn't me "buying into" an aluminum freehub body. It was the only choice. It's definitely not why I chose these hubs and I would choose them again. The small strip of steel (bite guard) more or less solves the issue so I don't understand why all aluminum freehubs don't have them.

BUT shallow spline, aluminum=gouging...particularly with some lower dig. hubs and soft FH bodies..Aluminum cheap and 'light'..as with a lot of bike stuff, all you can really 'measure' is weight and price..

And the issue is obviously exacerbated by the large torque easily created with a 42-46t rear cog.

BTW, the area around the pawls and springs was greased, but there's certainly room for more. How much grease should they get?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4495/37406807650_5e3ca6f95f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YZvEFu)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/YZvEFu) by ColonelJLloyd (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51002114@N03/), on Flickr

[BikeNY]

As others have said, file the ridges and you should be fine. From your description, you did way less damage than your buddy did during that one trip. I'd say don't lend him your wheels anymore!

Concerning material, it's a weight game. Lighter weight sells hubs. I think Titanium is the best material, and not all are willing to pay for that. I use mosrt Dt hubs these days, and their freehubs are aluminum. Mine show some gouging, but nothing like yours. I did invest in a steel freehub for the DT hub on my singlespeed just in case. At least DT and Hope have steel freehubs available.

[ergott]

They aren't meant to be completely packed with grease. It would prevent the movement of the pawls.

[oldpotatoe]

At least in my case this isn't me "buying into" an aluminum freehub body. It was the only choice. It's definitely not why I chose these hubs and I would choose them again. The small strip of steel (bite guard) more or less solves the issue so I don't understand why all aluminum freehubs don't have them.



And the issue is obviously exacerbated by the large torque easily created with a 42-46t rear cog.

BTW, the area around the pawls and springs was greased, but there's certainly room for more. How much grease should they get?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4495/37406807650_5e3ca6f95f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YZvEFu)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/YZvEFu) by ColonelJLloyd (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51002114@N03/), on Flickr

Don’t pack pawls with grease, they can stick down, damage the hub or your front teeth. Oil on pawls, I use Mobil 1...doesn’t get thick with the cold.

[djg21]

I’ve had a few occassions where I had to use a Pedro’s Vice Whip (https://pedros.com/products/tools/cassette-and-chain/vise-whip/) to remove a cog where it had worked its way into the AL free hub on an older Powertap hub. I’d grab the cog with the vice whip and rock it forward and back to dislodge it from the free hub.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I’ve had a few occassions where I had to use a Pedro’s Vice Whip (https://pedros.com/products/tools/cassette-and-chain/vise-whip/) to remove a cog where it had worked its way into the AL free hub on an older Powertap hub. I’d grab the cog with the vice whip and rock it forward and back to dislodge it from the free hub.

Good solution. I don't have said tool so best I could come up with was to drive the freehub sheel through the cogs resting on a vise. It worked, but obviously knocked the pawls out (thankfully onto a paper towel I strategically placed).

[loxx0050]

What you could've tried was to use a mallet with a flat head screwdriver against the teeth of the cogs to "tap" it loose. Opposite direction of the way it spins. That should dislodge it from the splines enough to be able to remove it. Takes a bit longer than using that fancy tool but does work. Forcing it with brute methods runs the risk of damaging or breaking things.

[ColonelJLloyd]

What you could've tried was to use a mallet with a flat head screwdriver against the teeth of the cogs to "tap" it loose. Opposite direction of the way it spins. That should dislodge it from the splines enough to be able to remove it. Takes a bit longer than using that fancy tool but does work. Forcing it with brute methods runs the risk of damaging or breaking things.

Brute force wasn't required or used, but rather my hand hitting a block of pine against a piece of poplar dowel. It didn't take much. And there was no risk of damaging the teeth of the cogs with a screwdriver this way either.

[regularguy412]

At least in my case this isn't me "buying into" an aluminum freehub body. It was the only choice. It's definitely not why I chose these hubs and I would choose them again. The small strip of steel (bite guard) more or less solves the issue so I don't understand why all aluminum freehubs don't have them.



And the issue is obviously exacerbated by the large torque easily created with a 42-46t rear cog.

BTW, the area around the pawls and springs was greased, but there's certainly room for more. How much grease should they get?

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4495/37406807650_5e3ca6f95f_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/YZvEFu)Untitled (https://flic.kr/p/YZvEFu) by ColonelJLloyd (https://www.flickr.com/photos/51002114@N03/), on Flickr

I do pack mine 'prettttty' full of Phil Grease, but I also use a liberal amount of homebrew lube (3 parts synthetic motor oil and 1 part camp fuel). Never had a problem with sticky pawls. And,, for a while,, the hub runs REALLLLLLLY quiet.

Mike in AR:beer:

[loxx0050]

Brute force wasn't required or used, but rather my hand hitting a block of pine against a piece of poplar dowel. It didn't take much. And there was no risk of damaging the teeth of the cogs with a screwdriver this way either.

Ok. Your first post stated mallet was used which sounded like forcing it to me. Lightly tappping does not damage the teeth unless your definition of "tap" is different than mine.

[DavidC]

Many have said to file down ridges that develop. I guess lots have had success doing that. Not me: upon light filing, some small flaps of metal came off where the cogs had dug in. This rendered the freehub useless. There was then nothing for the cogs to push against, and they spun around the freehub body. Maybe it was a fluke, but worth pointing out. (On a powertap hub, if I recall.)

[josephr]

I did invest in a steel freehub for the DT hub on my singlespeed just in case. At least DT and Hope have steel freehubs available.

didn't know DT had a steel option...I asked a few years ago, so maybe this is new? I dunno...the gouging was pretty bad. I filed it down and then vowed to not take the cassette off again until its completely worn out. That was 4k miles ago, so probably coming soon. I'm scared to look!

[purplecu22]

I pinned my shimano 105 cassettes. If you align the cogs, there is a hole that goes through the entire cassette. I took a 3mm allen key, inserted and cut the end off. I did this on my all cassette bodies and it helped cut down on gouging a great deal.

[ColonelJLloyd]

I pinned my shimano 105 cassettes. If you align the cogs, there is a hole that goes through the entire cassette. I took a 3mm allen key, inserted and cut the end off. I did this on my all cassette bodies and it helped cut down on gouging a great deal.

Hmm. 8 of the 10 cogs on this particular cassette were pinned. The 11-42t 11s XT cassette that was on previously and didn't do near the same amount of gouging featured two aluminum carriers for the largest 6 or 7 cogs which certainly goes a long way to prevent gouging.

[yetitotheheady]

My sram s 900 hub did the same, not as deep but noticeable. Replacement freehub bodies are around $60. If you are 11spd and not loaning your wheels out to 10spd friends, you could get the xd driver body instead. Then you wont have gouging ever again. Downside it would require an xd cassette, and they are more expensive than the shimano cassettes you are currently using.

[ergott]

Sram Red cassettes are another solution. Not cheap though. Good part is they work with all 3 11 speed groups.

[BikeNY]

didn't know DT had a steel option...I asked a few years ago, so maybe this is new? I dunno...the gouging was pretty bad. I filed it down and then vowed to not take the cassette off again until its completely worn out. That was 4k miles ago, so probably coming soon. I'm scared to look!

I believe they've had the steel freehubs available for many years. Only downside is they're not cheap, $90 or so.

https://www.amazon.com/DT-Swiss-Mountain-Freehub-Standard/dp/B017EGAIHW

[oldpotatoe]

I believe they've had the steel freehubs available for many years. Only downside is they're not cheap, $90 or so.

https://www.amazon.com/DT-Swiss-Mountain-Freehub-Standard/dp/B017EGAIHW

Not 11s road or Campag either..

[BikeNY]

Not 11s road or Campag either..

They also have 11 speed road:

https://www.amazon.com/DT-Swiss-11-Speed-Freehub-Standard/dp/B017EGAECG

Generally it's not needed for Campag because the splines are deeper and don't gouge as much as the Shimano ones.

[GregL]

Hopefully more vendors will follow BikeHubStore.com and add anti-bite guards: http://www.bikehubstore.com/SL210-p/sl210.htm

[ColonelJLloyd]

Three stainless steel splines? Wish they showed a photo. The bite guards I've seen are all like the ones on my Velocity convertible hubs. It basically looks like one of the splines was machined off and replaced with a piece of steel.

http://mediacdn.shopatron.com/media/mfg/7455/option_image/thm/t700_x1_b94afb32d5652fc5b87a56c88e26e505_819314_26 8670.png?1387236324

[ergott]

Same idea on the SL210 hub

https://www.biketone.cz/banner-bitex-anti-bite-system2_wi82.jpg

[GregL]

Three stainless steel splines? Wish they showed a photo. The bite guards I've seen are all like the ones on my Velocity convertible hubs. It basically looks like one of the splines was machined off and replaced with a piece of steel.
http://www.bikehubstore.com/product-p/fh210-antibite.htm

[ColonelJLloyd]

Cool. I'm for it.