Anyone have an unsubstantiated dislike for a bike brand?

[91Bear]

For example, for me it's LOOK. Their bikes have never done anything for me.
However, I have never ridden one. They could be fantastic.

Also when I was first getting into cycling, I watched the Tour of Texas when it came through my hometown. I chatting with a mechanic from the Russian team. They rode Colnago bikes. He said, "Those Colnagos are crap. They're so heavy." So, from then on I thought that Colnagos were crap.
They're not but I've never had the desire to buy one either - except for maybe the new Arabesque. In my opinion, they've always seemed a little overpriced.

[CaptStash]

Yes. What is it about Giant's that I just don't dig?

Captstash....

[JAGI410]

Specialized!

[azrider]

Yes. What is it about Giant's that I just don't dig?

Captstash....

Ha....that was brand that came to mind for me as well.

[makoti]

Cannondale. Never ridden one, but don't want to. Of course, as an admitted bike snob, my list could be lengthy if I think about it.

[huck*this]

For some reason all the bikes I have owned never once owner a TREK. IDK what it is but for some reason I have always stayed clear. The new Madone I thought about but when it came to actually purchase I thought to myself, but its still a TREK....

[fignon's barber]

All bikes are good....some are just better than others.

[shhQuiet]

Giant. When Schwinn stopped using Giant to manufacture, Giant stole the designs and started making the same bikes under the Giant brand. Just don’t like the thievery that got the company started.

EDIT: I guess it isn’t unsubstantiated:)
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[BikeNY]

For me it's Lynskey. Don't think I've ever ridden one, although it's possible I've ridden a frame they've made for somebody else. The whole twisted downtube thing didn't help their cause!

[adhumston]

Specialized for me.

[shhQuiet]

For me it's Lynskey. Don't think I've ever ridden one, although it's possible I've ridden a frame they've made for somebody else. The whole twisted downtube thing didn't help their cause!



I love my Lynskey but mine has round tubes. Don’t see the point of the twist except for looks.


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[eBAUMANN]

Id say specialized...but its not an unsubstantiated dislike...

Cant sh*t on lynskey too much...at least they are making bikes in the US.

I see a few of you are naming Trek...and I would have too...until their recent investment in CX, their brand ambassadors, the fact that they actually make good bikes, some of which IN THE US...
Im finding more reasons to like rather than dislike em these days...

[MesiJezi]

Trek. It's hard to come back from a bike name like "Iguana". And the LA connection. And they're just so forgettable!

Bianchi. Celeste green. Enough said.


EDIT: The Iguana is a Giant! Maybe that's the reason for all the Giant hate in this thread... :)

[R3awak3n]

this thread would make a good list of off the shelve bike brands.

[shhQuiet]

Cant sh*t on lynskey too much...at least they are making bikes in the US.


This was a major factor in purchasing one: Chattanooga Tennessee!



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[velofinds]

I find naming for me carries outsize influence. I'm sure the likes of Kona, Surly, Jamis, Felt, and Salsa (among plenty of others) make fine bikes, but I wouldn't know it because I think the manufacturer's name looks dumb splayed out across the down tube :help:

[Epicus07]

Why does specialized get all the flak? I was really fond of their steel Allez models and love my Roubaix.

[eBAUMANN]

Why does specialized get all the flak? I was really fond of their steel Allez models and love my Roubaix.

https://www.reddit.com/r/cycling/comments/3j3ngy/specialized_bikes_why_the_hate/

[Clean39T]

I find naming for me carries outsize influence. I'm sure the likes of Kona, Surly, Jamis, Felt, and Salsa (among plenty of others) make fine bikes, but I wouldn't know it because I think the manufacturer's name looks dumb splayed out across the down tube :help:


This. I liked Kona in the early 90s, but have hated their branding ever since.

[mhespenheide]

Trek. It's hard to come back from a bike name like "Iguana".
{snip}
EDIT: The Iguana is a Giant! Maybe that's the reason for all the Giant hate in this thread... :)

On the other hand, you have to admire a company that comes out with the "Giant Butte" in the early days of mountain biking! :banana:









{first time using the banana!}

[scho74]

Wilier! I've never owned one but they just don't appeal to me at all. I think the logo just turns me off.

[false_Aest]

Waterford.
Merlin.
Fat Chance.

yep. you can excommunicate me now.

[soulspinner]

Fuji

[sales guy]

I have no "unsubstantiated" hate towards any brand. I have dislikes towards MANY brands for very good reasons.

I personally loved the ride of my Specialized mountain bike I had back in the day. But the whole Cafe Roubaix thing, nope. Never ever ever again. When you pull that kind of BS on people, sorry, it's hard to come back from that. Especially when you've done before and continue to do it.

[azrider]

All bikes are good....some are just better than others.

Well said

Id say specialized...but its not an unsubstantiatedsee a few of you are naming Trek...and I would have too...until their recent investment in CX, their brand ambassadors, the fact that they actually make good bikes, some of which IN THE US...
Im finding more reasons to like rather than dislike em these days...

I tried to ride Trek but could never find one that fit right......with their ALR I'm def willing to give them another try

[Corso]

Gotta go with Trek.

They killed Bontrager steel bikes, and also Klein.
Glad I have one of each.

Oh, yeah, and fn’g over LeMond’s line of bikes too!

[sales guy]

Gotta go with Trek.

They killed Bontrager steel bikes, and also Klein.
Glad I have one of each.

Oh, yeah, and fn’g over LeMond’s line of bikes too!

But see, those are not unsubstantiated.

Those are a few of the reasons I have for Trek as well as many others.

[pdonk]

Cervelo.

Seems every other bike I see is one.

[benb]

Felt... never seemed to understand how they came out of nowhere from BMX to Road and got hyped overnight, also too much tri-geek hype maybe. It was always hard to see how someone got to be an expert on road bike design from BMX.

Funny the Giant Iguana got mentioned, I had one of those, ignoring the name, and that whole series of bikes had funny names, they were great bikes at a very cheap price. They weren't really intended as race bikes but I did race mine in XC for too years and it was fine.. good enough to get me in the top 5 a couple times.

Trek is a weird one in how they have indeed done some crappy stuff with brands they bought. But their bikes have always been pretty good and their customer service is great.

[chiasticon]

I see a few of you are naming Trek...and I would have too...until their recent investment in CX, their brand ambassadors, the fact that they actually make good bikes, some of which IN THE US...
Im finding more reasons to like rather than dislike em these days...this 100%. I'd actually buy a Boone if I were after one.

Salsa would be it for me. I have no issue with their bikes or the company. in fact, they do some pretty well thought-out things. but I can't bring myself to ride a bike that says "Salsa" on it. if I liked one enough to purchase it, I'd spray paint it black or something.

I used to have a stigma against Santa Cruz, because I used to skateboard and there was a skate company named that. so it was just weird to me. I like some of their bikes now. name is still weird to me though.

Primus Mootry was another. just awful name. until I read that it was intentional. I'd still only ride one if it lacked any branding though. dude seems like knows how to make a good bike.

[nmrt]

OK -- burn me. :banana:
But since you ask for unsubstantiated -- I'll say BAUM.
I completely dislike almost all of their paintjob,

[berserk87]

I have never liked Specialized. It goes back to the mid-90's with me so I guess I could substantiate it with a bunch of reasons why. I like this forum because folks take Spec's annual claims of 13% more aero and whatnot with a grain of salt.

Trek has always been kinda "meh" to me.

With all deference to Peter Chisholm, the Eddy Merckx MX Leader is not a brand, but a model that I don't get all giddy about. I had one for a few years. I liked the look of it. The paint job was awesome. It felt like a lead sled. Heavy and handled slowly. I don't get the hype. It wasn't a bad bike, but for all of the fawning - I think it's more of the idea of what it is, than what it is. It was expensive and the thin walled tubing took to dents like flies at a pie baking contest.

My Lynskey Helix hit all the sweet spots for me when I was looking for a frame a few years back: wanted a Ti frame, made in the USA, with a threaded BB shell, within my budget. The Helix I bought checked all of the boxes. I can't tell if the twisted tubes do anything to improve performance, but they don't inhibit it. They look weird but I'm not taking it to the prom. I ride the crap out of it, and will until it breaks (which I hope it doesn't).

[Mark McM]

Gotta go with Trek.

They killed Bontrager steel bikes, and also Klein.
Glad I have one of each.

Oh, yeah, and fn’g over LeMond’s line of bikes too!

Bontrager (and Klein and Lemond) were already clinically dead. Trek just put them on life support for a short time before pulling the plug.

[jtakeda]

Merlin.

I had one—loved it, even though it was a little big for me.

Then this guy I severely dislike showed up with one and I could never love it again.

Chopping block—sold—no more Merlins.

[biker72]

There are a lot of brands out there that I have never ridden. I can't say I dislike any of them.

Five years ago I owned a titanium Serotta, Schwinn Paramount and a Trek 2300. I presently own 3 Specialized bikes. Five years from now...who knows...:)

[Hat]

Moots - just because I hate the name.

[daker13]

When I used to ride on dirt I developed a dislike for Shimano and much preferred Sachs... years later, realized that Shimano is actually a pretty cool company (often affordable, good quality, etc).

I have the typical dislike of Big Bike Brands like Giant, Specialized, Trek, etc. This is not only an unsubstantiated dislike for the brand itself, but also a dislike for the fact that I can't keep track of which of the big brands hired good people and are actually making cool bikes at the moment (a la Diamondback at some point).

[donevwil]

Basso

They were popular when I got into riding/racing, but for whatever reason I always went elsewhere. I remember the geo being quite odd, even for an Italian bike, long TT (good) with very short front center (neither good nor bad).

[Clean39T]

Cervelo.

Seems every other bike I see is one.

I almost listed the same, but then remembered I loved early Cervelo's (Super Prodigy mostly), so I would have had to say "dislike their latter-day work". So, kind of how I feel about Bob Dylan - good, really bad, back to good? And yeah, I think Cervelo is maybe on their way to redeeming themselves - the new R5 is pretty nice - and if they re-release a Super Prodigy using Spirit, that'd win me over ;)

[YesNdeed]

Yes. What is it about Giant's that I just don't dig?

Don't know, don't care, I just don't like them.

Specialized!

These as well.

[Aaron O]

Fuji...I never cared for their logo or graphics.

GT...I don't dig on Hellenic stays.

Any builder who ever worked for Cali Masi. They just get talked about so much, and I'm a regionalist. East Coast 4 lyfe.

[d_douglas]

I have many irrational dislikes. However, Trek and Specialized come up frequently. The fact is that Specialized MTBs are about as advanced and great riding as you can get, but I simply cant bring myself to buy one, no matter how good they are.

Inversely, my shop buddy offered me a pro deal on a Kona Hei Hei Trail last year. I deliberated and ended up piecing together a pimp Banshee Phantom with used parts because it is boutique. I really like the Banshee, but I went riding with a guy who rode that same Kona and it was SUCH a nice bike that I wondered why I went to the trouble of all the work getting the Banshee when I could've just bought a stock Kona for the same price with a warranty and out of a box. The Kona weighed about 5lb less than the Banshee, if not more.

Kinda stupid of me.

[d_douglas]

Yes, Cervelos are ugly as sin, but yet I am sure they ride very nicely. Just cant get into them.

[sales guy]

Bontrager (and Klein and Lemond) were already clinically dead. Trek just put them on life support for a short time before pulling the plug.

See, I disagree. I sold Bontrager and Klein before Trek bought them. They were both doing ok. LeMond on the other hand, no. Gary and Keith were both just burned out. Greg was kind of no existent at that time as he was doing other things like car racing. So the LeMond one I get.

Trek basically told Gary and Keith they could do anything they wanted. And they used them for a bit for their names and then just pushed them out. Keith is the face/name for their component line. That's about it. It's like Fisher. Gary doesn't do anything for them. He's just a face. Rolf got to be the same way and he ended up suing to get out. That whole black shirt Steve Jobs/Professor look, that is so far from what Rolf acted/looked like in real life. The dude is a khaki cargo shorts, Hawaiian shirt, socks with sandals guy. Trust me. I've seen him at home and out in the real world. After Trek, he went back to that look. He's funny. Fisher is the same way. It's all an act for a paycheck. Trek wanted the image and got it for a price.

[dustyrider]

Next. And any bike that comes painted in red!

[Davist]

I used to have a stigma against Santa Cruz, because I used to skateboard and there was a skate company named that. so it was just weird to me. I like some of their bikes now. name is still weird to me though.
.

Although they've been sold, it was the same company both skateboards and mountain bikes, they even had a BMX race bike back in the 90s when I was in Norcal. They got interested in bikes in the 90s after Rob Roskopp (owner/founder) hung up his skateboard, more or less..

[charliedid]

I don’t have this problem. Maybe because I have been in the industry off and on for 30 years.

Bikes.

[Gummee]

Id say specialized...but its not an unsubstantiated dislike...

Cant sh*t on lynskey too much...at least they are making bikes in the US.

I see a few of you are naming Trek...and I would have too...until their recent investment in CX, their brand ambassadors, the fact that they actually make good bikes, some of which IN THE US...
Im finding more reasons to like rather than dislike em these days...

Trek was a mid-level brand at best when I first started riding all those years ago. It wasn't till they sponsored a certain Texan that they changed that image some.

Fast forward a bunch of years and I started working for a Trek dealer and the bikes have gotten MUCH better in the years since.

Except for the name, they're fan-farging-tastic riding bikes that are competitively light. I love my Boone, my Superfly AL, and my Top Fuel. The name still conjures up 'mid-level at best' from back when and I need to keep reminding myself that it ain't the same bikes any more.

M

[Lanternrouge]

Pinarello. Not so much for the bikes, but for the very high Fred factor among people who ride them. I'd probably say the same for Cervelo, but some of their bikes are actually ugly.

[choke]

I'm definitely in the Specialized/Trek camp. Though I would like an old 531 Trek.

Traitor - I just couldn't ride a frame with that name on it.
Stinner.

And a lot of others as well.

OK -- burn me. :banana:
But since you ask for unsubstantiated -- I'll say BAUM.
I completely dislike almost all of their paintjob,Just so you know, you're not alone in detesting their paint schemes.

[earlfoss]

Specialized sucks for so many reasons. They make an ok bike though.

[SlowPokePete]

Don't really get excited over any of the big name biked...Spec, trek, Giant, etc.

Don't doubt they are nice riding bikes, but

SPP

[m4rk540]

Stinner, because a 4 year old company shouldn't be selling hundreds of bikes based on flashy paint jobs and cool dude shout outs.

Wait, that's substantiated?

[seedster2]

I am admittedly a bit of a bike snob. I have some wonderful boutique shops here in Brooklyn with a selection of custom and euro brands. Therefore, I am willing to pay a bit more for something seemingly more exotic or produced with higher ethical and environmental standards for their workers.

I believe the following frames are overpriced and are guilty of trying to equip their frames with in-house components and claim superiority to third party manufacturers.

-Specialized
-Giant
-Cannondale


I actually give Trek credit for their new Madone.

[makoti]

I find naming for me carries outsize influence. I'm sure the likes of Kona, Surly, Jamis, Felt, and Salsa (among plenty of others) make fine bikes, but I wouldn't know it because I think the manufacturer's name looks dumb splayed out across the down tube :help:

If we are going to toss a bike line because of name, I'll toss a new one (to me). Allied. I said it in a different thread, that is the worst name for a bike company I've ever heard. So damn lazy.

[Corso]

Although they've been sold, it was the same company both skateboards and mountain bikes, they even had a BMX race bike back in the 90s when I was in Norcal. They got interested in bikes in the 90s after Rob Roskopp (owner/founder) hung up his skateboard, more or less..

I have an older SC Stigmata cross bike BECAUSE I used to skate!

[weisan]

wow...now i understand why I got punched by a boy that I don't even know when I was in third grade.

[beeatnik]

I am admittedly a bit of a bike snob. I have some wonderful boutique shops here in Brooklyn with a selection of custom and euro brands. Therefore, I am willing to pay a bit more for something seemingly more exotic or produced with higher ethical and environmental standards for their workers.

I believe the following frames are overpriced and are guilty of trying to equip their frames with in-house components and claim superiority to third party manufacturers.


Specialized - the worst culprit. Havent liked them since stumpjumper days
Giant - boring
Cannondale


I actually give Trek credit for their new Madone.

Interestingly enough, the three above produce the world's best race bikes.

[Ti Designs]

The fact that you have no reason to dislike them never comes into it? Even if it's pointed out? I think that's called a cognitive bias...

[m_sasso]

Vanilla/Speedvagen from their copy of the Ferrari prancing horse/unicorn to there played out chalk board paint jobs.

Way to much show and not enough go.

[rustychisel]

Pinarello. Not so much for the bikes, but for the very high Fred factor among people who ride them. I'd probably say the same for Cervelo, but some of their bikes are actually ugly.

:banana::banana::banana: although that melted tube carbon sh*t they do is pretty annoying [in an irrational kinda way]

[bikinchris]

I wouldn't call it strict dislike, but I am NOT impressed with MOST Italian bikes and have never been. Not that I don't think they are pretty. I remember when I had a riding friend who rode a rainbow Pinarello. Very pretty bike. BADLY built. Pinned tubes with poor workmanship. Very crooked. Great paint, but I understand that was done stateside.
So Colnago, Pinarello, Basso, Ciocc etc. get a "meh?", from me.
I DO like Cinelli though, they have well made products and still build some bikes in Italy.

[bikinchris]

Why does specialized get all the flak? I was really fond of their steel Allez models and love my Roubaix.

Specialized as a company has NO soul and are a ruthless animal. Specialized as a bike builder? They actually are not a bike builder. They never actually build anything. Every single thing they sell is make under a contract to another company.
Which started the award in the bike shows for "Society of People who actually make their own ****" in protest to companies like Specialized.

[ultraman6970]

My main problem is that some brands became so main stream that i lost interest on them at all, the best two examples are trek and pinarello... my other problem with some brands is that they have this bunch of 4 feet tall front tube wacky frames hybrid disguised as road bikes impossibly to fit brands which I lost interest on them aswell, the bad part is that many of those are or Trek or specialized :)

[e-RICHIE]

Specialized as a company has NO soul and are a ruthless animal. Specialized as a bike builder? They actually are not a bike builder. They never actually build anything. Every single thing they sell is make under a contract to another company.
Which started the award in the bike shows for "Society of People who actually make their own ****" in protest to companies like Specialized.

I think that's reactionary, and maybe a bit harsh. On point, Bob Egger who does the lion's share of what's considered SBC's design work may have more experience in the field than any other working frame builder. And, he also makes bicycles at the Morgan Hill facility. And is an accomplished racer as well.

Sinyard may have the art files cloned around the world, but they have to be birthed somewhere, and by someone. Egger is that guy.

The company's moral compass may be another story. I know little about it, but have followed a few stories over the years. Not close enough to comment.

You (one) can hate the industry behemoths for many reasons. I actually admire them on many levels.

[buddybikes]

Those who commented Merlin - big difference than the classic Merlin made in Cambridge and then sold off to Saucony and then American Bicycle Group. they were true product innovators in ti

[DarkStar]

For me it's Lynskey. Don't think I've ever ridden one, although it's possible I've ridden a frame they've made for somebody else. The whole twisted downtube thing didn't help their cause!
Have two Lynskey built bikes, both excellent bikes, not as magical as my Serotta Colorado Ti or my Goodrich, but fine bikes nonetheless.:banana:

[IFRider]

Even though I bought the kids Specialized mountain bikes, there is a corporate tone they carry. In part, it started during the whole dot com era when they registered trek's domain and redirected it to theirs. A lot of companies did stuff like that at that time, but I expected more from them.

[bicimechanic]

Scattante, Nashbar, Motobecane(new) and any of those Bikes Direct bikes. I'm sure there are more. Uggg....

[sipmeister]

I used to think Salsa was something...until I bought and rode the Big Mama.

Worst mountain bike I have ever had to subject myself to. Slow, sluggish, and disconnected from the trail. Anyone who has ever driven large, old farm machinery where you turn the steering wheel fully several times before the machine starts to respond...that's the Big Mama. On a trail, the Big Mama would eventually respond to steering input after you had already missed the corner and catapulted into oblivion. Never again.

I've owned two Trek hardtail 29ers every since. The geometry works for me, and I find their products to be durable. The fact they can still make some stuff here in the USA for such a big brand is also commendable.

[laupsi]

Colnago: for years leading up to the early 90’s I lusted for one of their artistically crafted steel frames. finally saved enough to purchase a brand new Master Light. It rode horribly; heavy and too twitchy, BB was too low to make for a decent race frame which is how it was marketed. Sold w/in that same year and actually felt guilty turning it over, knowing how crappy it rode. Again, like me, the buyer just lusted after one!

[wc1934]

wow...now i understand why I got punched by a boy that I don't even know when I was in third grade.

haha. I was thinking along the same lines. Amazing how opinions are formed just based on perceived perceptions - and we are only talking about bikes - imagine if the topic was expanded - :eek:

[jr59]

All of them! Every single one of them!


I can no longer ride them so I have decided to hate all bikes. Now if I recover, I’ll go back to loving them all.

[BikeNY]

Have two Lynskey built bikes, both excellent bikes, not as magical as my Serotta Colorado Ti or my Goodrich, but fine bikes nonetheless.:banana:

I know, it's unsubstantiated! I really dislike the helix downtube thing, but otherwise I have no reason to not like them. I like titanium and I like companies that still make stuff in the US.

[quickfeet]

I'm for sure going to get roasted for this, so let me preface this a bit.

I appreciate all that Sachs has done in the industry and some of the original work through the years in design and holding the custom torch when a lot of manufacturers went overseas. USA made is important.

BUT, I don't understand the ferver for bikes that all look the same and have not substantially changed in the 40 years he has been making them. Did I even read he still only makes 1 inch headtubes? Why wait years and pay many multiple thousands of dollars for a bike that you have to use a spacer under the stem? He uses his own lugs on every bike the same way, no embellishing or pushing his craft at all.

Again, this is entirely from my untrained eye. Maybe they are fantastic, but the law of diminishing returns may apply here somewhere... I think they are beautiful, well made bikes, but maybe a little more pedestrian than their reputation would lead you to believe.

[saab2000]

I'm for sure going to get roasted for this, so let me preface this a bit.

I appreciate all that Sachs has done in the industry and some of the original work through the years in design and holding the custom torch when a lot of manufacturers went overseas. USA made is important.

BUT, I don't understand the ferver for bikes that all look the same and have not substantially changed in the 40 years he has been making them. Did I even read he still only makes 1 inch headtubes? Why wait years and pay many multiple thousands of dollars for a bike that you have to use a spacer under the stem? He uses his own lugs on every bike the same way, no embellishing or pushing his craft at all.

Again, this is entirely from my untrained eye. Maybe they are fantastic, but the law of diminishing returns may apply here somewhere... I think they are beautiful, well made bikes, but maybe a little more pedestrian than their reputation would lead you to believe.

A 1" headtube is fine on a lugged steel bike.

Anyway, the Sachs bikes I have seen up close (many) have been perfect in their construction and paint. Knowing Richard I have to jump in to defend here. They're a bit anachronistic and that's what his customers want. I'd take one.

Putting modern flourishes on a Richard Sachs bike would be like putting splitters and a spoiler on a Morgan.

[William]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/3362933/grumpy-o.gif

I'm oooooold! And I'm not happy! And I don't like things now compared to the way they used to be. All this progress -- phooey! In my day, we didn't have these cash machines that would give you money when you needed it. There was only one bank in each state -- it was open only one hour a year. And you'd get in line, seventeen miles long, and the line became an angry mob of people -- fornicators and thieves, mutant children and circus freaks -- and you waited for years and by the time you got to the teller, you were senile and arthritic and you couldn't remember your own name. You were born, got in line, and ya died! And that's the way it was and we liked it!

Life was simpler then. There wasn't all this concern about hy-giene! It my days, we didn't have Kleenex. When you turned seventeen, you were given the family handkerchief. ... It hadn't been washed in generations and it stood on its own ... filled with diseases and swarmin' with flies. ... If you tried to blow your nose, you'd get an infection and your head would swell up and turn green and children would burst into tears at the sight o' ya! And that's the way it was and we liked it!

Life was a carnival! We entertained ourselves! We didn't need moooovin' pitchurrrres. In my day, there was only one show in town -- it was called "Stare at the sun!" ... That's right! You'd sit in the middle of an open field and stare up at the sun till your eyeballs burst into flames! And you thought, "Oh, no! Maybe I shouldn't've stared directly into the burning sun with my eyes wide open." But it was too late! Your head was on fire and people were roastin' chickens over it. ... And that's the way it was and we liked it!

Bikes we’ve never ridden??! Flobble-de-flee! In my day, when we were angry and frustrated about bikes we’ve never even touched, we just said, "Flobble-de-flee!" 'cause we were idiots and we didn't know what else to say! Just a bunch o' illiterate Cro-Magnons, blowin' on crusty handkerchiefs, complainin’ about bikes we never even mounted, waitin’ in lines for our head to burst into flame and that's the way it was and we liked it!






:D:D:D

William

[quickfeet]

A 1" headtube is fine on a lugged steel bike.

Anyway, the Sachs bikes I have seen up close (many) have been perfect in their construction and paint. Knowing Richard I have to jump in to defend here. They're a bit anachronistic and that's what his customers want. I'd take one.

Putting modern flourishes on a Richard Sachs bike would be like putting splitters and a spoiler on a Morgan.

No need to jump to defense, there's no hate on my end. I'm CERTAIN they are perfect at being what they are. He's been at it too many years for them to not be. I'm simply stating my opinion that I don't see what all the fuss is about.

[Dave B]

A 1" headtube is fine on a lugged steel bike.

Anyway, the Sachs bikes I have seen up close (many) have been perfect in their construction and paint. Knowing Richard I have to jump in to defend here. They're a bit anachronistic and that's what his customers want. I'd take one.

Putting modern flourishes on a Richard Sachs bike would be like putting splitters and a spoiler on a Morgan.

I would give up every bike I own to have one of his cross bikes as well as one of his road bikes. I think you are buying a part of Richard (well at least his ethos) as well as his craft when you get one of his bikes. I will never have the pleasure of have either one made for me and that is something I would consider bucket list stuff. While his bikes are amazing, I have grown to admire the man himself and the many conversations I have had with him.

When I was IF or nothing it was exactly the same way. The people making a bike for me are well beyond the importance of the actual bike. That is what drew me to them. I would buy an IF in a heart beat now as I still love them. I will admit however I miss a few people who no longer work there or in the industry.

Call me a fan boy and I will proudly stand on that pedestal for Richard or the folks at IF.

Neither Richard or IF need me to shout at the top of my lungs my support, but I do. Neither he nor IF need me as a customer, but have still treated me with grace. That to me is something I haven’t gotten from larger brands with minions of folks who report to boss after boss before a denial is made.

[oldpotatoe]

Just an observation here...interesting to see what people like or don't..kinda like trying to describe what an orange tastes like BUT

I think a lot of dislike isn't the actual product but the company, their philosophy, their customer service, their online or in person 'persona', their spokespeople, etc..I know that's VERY true for me and one industry big boy who shall remain nameless here..

BTW- I own a 1985 Ciocc SL tubing, not beautiful with awful decals and paint but one of the 3 best riding bikes I have ever owned..and I still have it!

[MikeD]

Bontrager (and Klein and Lemond) were already clinically dead. Trek just put them on life support for a short time before pulling the plug.


They killed Fisher too, although in the end it may have been self-inflicted; so many of them broke. They killed every brand they bought. Bontrager lives on as an in-house component brand.

[dvancleve]

I get the whole Giant, Specialized, Trek thing. I like being different. When my bro' and I were kids, I would get something that wasn't my first choice just so it wasn't the same as his ;)
Not sure I will even own a Giant, but I think its pretty darn cool that they are one of 2 companies (that I know of anyway) that start with CF on a spool and end up with bikes, Time being the other.

They killed Fisher too. They killed every brand they bought.

I suspect all of those guys got the moolah they wanted and didn't care too much what happened to the brand or they wouldn't have sold, no?

Doug

[saab2000]

People who dislike Giant for the wrong reasons are missing out. My Giant TCR Advanced SL is the best road racing bike I've ever owned.

[bigbill]

I want to dislike Trek because some of their bikes are gimmicky with technology that doesn't work well. All in the name of aerodynamics which don't matter to 99% of the riding public. But, they put a lot of people on bikes and that's a good thing. Same thing for L*nce, he got a lot of people riding too.

[dgauthier]

+1 for Pinarello. The whole wiggly fork and frame thing looked like such B.S. I see they've now mostly dispensed with that "breakthrough tech". . .

Not a fan of bladder molded carbon frames from any manufacturer, 'cause they feel like riding a credit card. Tube and lug carbon frames are nice, though.

I really have a dislike for certain component manufacturers, not for unsubstantiated reasons, but for their histories of building components that fail: Profile Designs, Spinergy, TTT spring immediately to mind.

And I *really* wish I could set every Prius in the world on fire . . . oh wait, wrong topic . . .

[dougefresh]

Ever since that whole Roubaix Cafe lawsuit fiasco I’ve pretty much looked the other way in regards to Specialized product.

[Abelicoln]

I have no reason reason but I find Scott bikes to be the most boring on the planet. Maybe it's the name. Scott. Feel similarly about Felt.

I don't have a specific beef with Trek but Emonda is the worst name for a bike I've ever heard.

Some components I hate for no good reason like FSA. I always cringe when I see an FSA crank where a matching groupset should exist. Not only is Full Speed Ahead a terrible name it ruins something about the appearance of the bike for me.

[kevinvc]

Specialized for the reasons others have stated. I race cross on a Mountain Cycle Stumptown and every time I ride it my dislike for spec flares up again.

There are some bikes I dislike because I think they're ugly, but I don't hold anything against the manufacturer for it. Pinarello, Cervelo and most any time trial bikes look aesthetically wrong to me. I really dislike GT's seat stays crossing the seat tube to the top tube. I think almost every Landshark paint job I've seen is hideous. I've heard good things about all of these bikes and believe it. I just wouldn't buy one myself. I guess that's not really a dislike of the brand though.

[joosttx]

I think that's reactionary, and maybe a bit harsh. On point, Bob Egger who does the lion's share of what's considered SBC's design work may have more experience in the field than any other working frame builder. And, he also makes bicycles at the Morgan Hill facility. And is an accomplished racer as well.

Sinyard may have the art files cloned around the world, but they have to be birthed somewhere, and by someone. Egger is that guy.

The company's moral compass may be another story. I know little about it, but have followed a few stories over the years. Not close enough to comment.

You (one) can hate the industry behemoths for many reasons. I actually admire them on many levels.

In that frame (no pun intended) specialized is fine. Their go to market strategy I see admittedly from afar is pretty tough. But they earned it.

[geordanh]

I like this thread.

Modern Pinarello, Willier and Colnagos, with the exception of the C40/50/60 are the worst looking bikes ever. I saw a $10K colnago disc bike at the cafe this morning and I couldn't stop thinking about terrible it looked.

Giants are hideous.

Niners should be cool but they look so stupid.

That brand Blue... awful.

Bombtrack... terrible bike company name.

Orbea... uuuuuggggly.

Cervelo's ride amazing but look like trash.

Norco... blech.

On One. Garbage.

Banshee. Lol

That was cathartic.

[Lanternrouge]

I like this thread.

Modern Pinarello, Willier and Colnagos, with the exception of the C40/50/60 are the worst looking bikes ever. I saw a $10K colnago disc bike at the cafe this morning and I couldn't stop thinking about terrible it looked.



It almost sounds like you don't like "Italian" bikes that aren't made in Italy. :crap:

[marciero]

Specialized and Trek. Oh wait, you said unsubstantiated.
In that case, Cannondale. But now I have a cdale tandem that we absolutely love.

Edit: The c'dale bias was substantiated as well. It was the whole harsh-riding aluminum thing, mostly just American aluminum. I had no issue with my Derosa Merak or Pinarello Prince.

[jlwdm]

Interestingly enough, the three above produce the world's best race bikes.

I don't think you can say that about Specialized, Giant and Cannondale. But I also don't think you can say any three companies make the best race bikes.

Jeff

[jlwdm]

I'm for sure going to get roasted for this, so let me preface this a bit.

I appreciate all that Sachs has done in the industry and some of the original work through the years in design and holding the custom torch when a lot of manufacturers went overseas. USA made is important.

BUT, I don't understand the ferver for bikes that all look the same and have not substantially changed in the 40 years he has been making them. Did I even read he still only makes 1 inch headtubes? Why wait years and pay many multiple thousands of dollars for a bike that you have to use a spacer under the stem? He uses his own lugs on every bike the same way, no embellishing or pushing his craft at all.

Again, this is entirely from my untrained eye. Maybe they are fantastic, but the law of diminishing returns may apply here somewhere... I think they are beautiful, well made bikes, but maybe a little more pedestrian than their reputation would lead you to believe.

Maybe your issue is you are just talking too much about looks and not enough about ride quality.

Jeff

[jlwdm]

Stinner, because a 4 year old company shouldn't be selling hundreds of bikes based on flashy paint jobs and cool dude shout outs.

Wait, that's substantiated?

It is a function of the internet and NAHBS. NAHBS provides a stage for new builders to get awards and a lot of publicity based on paint jobs and lugs without consideration of ride quality.

Jeff

[sales guy]

It is a function of the internet and NAHBS. NAHBS provides a stage for new builders to get awards and a lot of publicity based on paint jobs and lugs without consideration of ride quality.

Jeff

That's why we make 'em sexy, functional, award winning AND beautiful riding! ;)

[seric]

Budnitz. Maybe not so unsubstantiated.

[sales guy]

Budnitz. Maybe not so unsubstantiated.

See, I even have one a reason for BudNUTZ. I honestly can't think of a single one where I don't have a reason.

[dpk501]

I've never tried one of these but I dislike it!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5S78kVm7RtY

[aki]

Pinarello


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[quickfeet]

Maybe your issue is you are just talking too much about looks and not enough about ride quality.

Jeff

Maybe, except very few get to ride before you buy with custom. So the decision making process is based on looks and a perceived value... also ride quality is wholly subjective as well. Once you figure out how to quantify it let me know.

[veggieburger]

Good question....for me, two brands.

1. Pinarello. Ever since the ridiculous Tango model, and even sillier ads, I can no longer take them seriously.

2. Spectrum. Probably better quality than anything I have ever ridden, but I just can't get past the Times New Roman logo decals. Again...totally unsubstantiated...I'm sure they are great bikes.

[bikinchris]

Specialized and Trek. Oh wait, you said unsubstantiated.
In that case, Cannondale. But now I have a cdale tandem that we absolutely love.

Edit: The c'dale bias was substantiated as well. It was the whole harsh-riding aluminum thing, mostly just American aluminum. I had no issue with my Derosa Merak or Pinarello Prince.

When I was a young sprinter, I bought CDale because it was the only bike I could afford that I couldn't make shift when I flexed the frame with my jump.

[bigbill]

Maybe, except very few get to ride before you buy with custom. So the decision making process is based on looks and a perceived value... also ride quality is wholly subjective as well. Once you figure out how to quantify it let me know.

It's not looks and perceived value, it's the reputation of the builder. My first custom was a steel Argonaut. Ben had a good reputation in the PNW for building excellent steel bikes, both lugged and fillet. At the time he was working out of the Strawberry shop in Portland, so I knew he was building in a good facility. It was a great bike up until Southwest Frameworks burned down with the Argonaut inside. My second custom is a Coconino which are the creations of Steve Garro, a legend in the bike building business. His reputation is the test ride.

Before I get a new bike, I'm diligent about researching the bike and builder. A test ride around a parking lot or a few blocks doesn't tell me how I'm going to feel 5 hours into a ride. A custom bike takes my position and fit into account and I have trust that the custom builder will make a bike that works for me. So far I haven't been disappointed.

[sfghbiker]

mission bicycle company in SF. Overpriced hipster junk with “cute” paintjobs. represents a lot of things that piss me off about sf these days.

https://www.missionbicycle.com/store/bike/locks/ulock-holster

[BryanE]

Anything Performance put their name on.

[tumbler]

2. Spectrum. Probably better quality than anything I have ever ridden, but I just can't get past the Times New Roman logo decals. Again...totally unsubstantiated...I'm sure they are great bikes.

Mine is related (and probably sacrilegious to say around here), but the K. Bedford Customs logo is something that always distracted me from the nice frames underneath. I suppose it's different from all the other builders who stick their last name on the downtube and call it a day, but something about the font choice, the use of the first initial, and the inclusion of "customs" in the logo reminds me of a modified car and distracts from the classy steel frame that people in the know would already recognize as a custom.

Totally unsubstantiated and superficial. I'm sure the bikes themselves are nicer (https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=211805) than anything I've ever owned. I just can't get comfortable with the logo.

[BobO]

I almost always figure, bikes are all fun, what's not to like. But then, a brand that I always felt made a bold, beautiful bike came out with this;
http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/eurobike14-look795a.jpg
which is just fugly. Now I find myself turning my head in disgust at the mere mention of Look products.

[ripvanrando]

Trek

BB90

And then there is the unsubstantiated destruction of GL.

[macaroon]

Baum, Speedvagen and any other niche artisan type framebuilders who make bikes that look (and cost) like they were meant to be hung on a wall and not ridden. The big posters on Instagram no doubt.

[Cicli]

Pegoretti.

I have seen two that the paint didnt make me want to puke.
I am sure they are super bikes, I just cant get past the artsy fartsy paintjobs.

[merlincustom1]

Thread drift to components. Ritchey. Absolutely no reason why. I'm sure the stuff is fine. Ergo, unsubstantiated.

[adub]

This discussion reminds me of this;

http://forums.roadbikereview.com/attachments/general-cycling-discussion/313016d1458056643-stereotype-road-cyclist-313004-stereotype-road-cyclist-screen-shot-2016-03-14-9.53.19-pm.jpg

[El Chaba]

I don't need to add any at the moment, but reading through the posts I recognize that for many brands I am not alone.....

[csm]

Pinarello, Colnago and the rest of the "Italian" bikes made down the street in Asia from the Trek and Giant bikes.
And pretty much any bike in a compact and/or semi-compact geometry.



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[Bruce in VA]

Neil Pryde...I think I have a few of their sails for my old windsurfers.

[cadence90]

.... ..
.

[91Bear]

It's not looks and perceived value, it's the reputation of the builder. My first custom was a steel Argonaut. Ben had a good reputation in the PNW for building excellent steel bikes, both lugged and fillet. At the time he was working out of the Strawberry shop in Portland, so I knew he was building in a good facility. It was a great bike up until Southwest Frameworks burned down with the Argonaut inside.

I bought a Specialized Allez Team frame in 1995. It was designed by Mark DiNucci from Strawberry Cycles, I believe.

[wallymann]

sachs. i just dont get all the fuss. intellectually i know they're well made. i like e-richie's philosophy -- at least what i can glean from interviews and the forum. probably would be good to BS with in his workshop over a couple beers.

but the bikes...there's no bike allure for me. zilch.

there was a time i felt similarly about pegoretti, but ive since developed a taste for his work.

{shrug}

[Fiertetimestwo]

I have always hated Litespeed.

Purely because of the intentional misspelling.

That just birns me up. (see what I did there?)

[JLQ]

Gunnar.

[Aaron O]

I have always hated Litespeed.

Purely because of the intentional misspelling.

That just birns me up. (see what I did there?)

I feel the same way...and it plays a role in why mine wears different decals. A TINY role, but a role.

[Bob Ross]

I don't have a specific beef with Trek but Emonda is the worst name for a bike I've ever heard.

When Trek first started doing the anagram thing with bike model names I was impressed; seemed like someone in their marketing department actually had an idea, and at the time I gave them credit for coming up with three distinct and seemingly recognizable names from the limited letters in "Madone"

But, as I discovered this summer when I rented a Trek from a lovely shop in Truckee, I was mistaken...which is a shame, because it was a really nice bike; so nice in fact that my wife now wants to buy one...which is how I discovered this flaw in my original thinking:

They are not distinct and recognizable names, and the fact that they're anagrams is a liability to recognition. I have no idea which model bike I wound up with! It was either a Madone, or a Domane, or an Emonda, because it definitely had those letters written on it...but, even after looking through Trek's website I could not tell which model we rented!

If I'd been on a Trek ToeBuster, or a Trek Twerk, or a Trek Skizzywidget, I would remember that. But Emonda? Domane? Madone? Hell, it could've been a Trek Nodmae!

[commonguy001]

Seven - It seems they always look odd because they're custom made for the original owner and most I see for sale are misshapen oddities I wouldn't be caught dead on.

Do the make a fine bike - I bet they do
Will I ever own one - not a chance

[Aaron O]

When Trek first started doing the anagram thing with bike model names I was impressed; seemed like someone in their marketing department actually had an idea, and at the time I gave them credit for coming up with three distinct and seemingly recognizable names from the limited letters in "Madone"

But, as I discovered this summer when I rented a Trek from a lovely shop in Truckee, I was mistaken...which is a shame, because it was a really nice bike; so nice in fact that my wife now wants to buy one...which is how I discovered this flaw in my original thinking:

They are not distinct and recognizable names, and the fact that they're anagrams is a liability to recognition. I have no idea which model bike I wound up with! It was either a Madone, or a Domane, or an Emonda, because it definitely had those letters written on it...but, even after looking through Trek's website I could not tell which model we rented!

If I'd been on a Trek ToeBuster, or a Trek Twerk, or a Trek Skizzywidget, I would remember that. But Emonda? Domane? Madone? Hell, it could've been a Trek Nodmae!
I prefer the Kret Dameno

[GregL]

If nothing else, this thread would make interesting reading for marketing managers in the bicycle industry. It's quite eye opening to read what turns people off to specific brands. Perceived reputations and appearances are everything!

Greg

[El Chaba]

When Trek first started doing the anagram thing with bike model names I was impressed; seemed like someone in their marketing department actually had an idea, and at the time I gave them credit for coming up with three distinct and seemingly recognizable names from the limited letters in "Madone"

But, as I discovered this summer when I rented a Trek from a lovely shop in Truckee, I was mistaken...which is a shame, because it was a really nice bike; so nice in fact that my wife now wants to buy one...which is how I discovered this flaw in my original thinking:

They are not distinct and recognizable names, and the fact that they're anagrams is a liability to recognition. I have no idea which model bike I wound up with! It was either a Madone, or a Domane, or an Emonda, because it definitely had those letters written on it...but, even after looking through Trek's website I could not tell which model we rented!

If I'd been on a Trek ToeBuster, or a Trek Twerk, or a Trek Skizzywidget, I would remember that. But Emonda? Domane? Madone? Hell, it could've been a Trek Nodmae!


I wrote several years ago that they missed a huge opportunity in naming their lightweight climbing bike...It should be named "D'Enoma". Being a results oriented person, it would be the one name of theirs that I would not forget....

[shovelhd]

I have no reason reason but I find Scott bikes to be the most boring on the planet. Maybe it's the name. Scott. Feel similarly about Felt.


Blasphemy!!!!

Ritte. An open mold frame with a bizarro paint job.

[toosahn]

Surly...because of the faux-punk hipster smugness

But I'd ride one nonetheless.

[m4rk540]

Two above are gold.

Ritte would have to be near the top for substantiated and unsubstantiated internet "hate."

A preliminary top 3:

Specialized (substantiated)
Ritte (substantiated)
Silca $1000 plus pumps (unsubstantiated)

[kramnnim]

Giant and Blue because they are stupid names.

[josephr]

ENVE composites....partially substantiated in that they had an internet marketing campaign set up as a unilateral contract: Complete survey, receive socks.

Survey completed, website crashed, email to Enve revealed they only had abundant response/limited supply, etc....in my mind I can understand that someone on their end made a big mistake and that 20,000 pairs of free socks can really mess with the cashflow of a small company. However, they still owe me a pair of socks.

[jmoore]

2. Spectrum. Probably better quality than anything I have ever ridden, but I just can't get past the Times New Roman logo decals. Again...totally unsubstantiated...I'm sure they are great bikes.


This is funny because if the bike has a terrible font on the downtube, I have an automatic bias to it as well.

And of course, I can't stand virtually any Landshark. The paint is too hideous for words. Colnago is almost as bad.

[bikinchris]

Gunnar.

I have a LOT of respect for Waterford bikes having sold a few of them. Their quality is super top notch and second to none. But while I understand the name Gunnar has a great meaning and It's cool and their bikes are every bit as well made as Waterford, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like Waterford does and I'm sure it hurts their sales.

[Tim Porter]

Having raced with friends in the early '70s who were on Italian Masi bikes and having raced on my own Masi from the first batch of California Masis as a 21 year old, I HATE the new "Masi" line of bikes, totally on an unsubstantiated basis. So there.

[Ronsonic]

I have a LOT of respect for Waterford bikes having sold a few of them. Their quality is super top notch and second to none. But while I understand the name Gunnar has a great meaning and It's cool and their bikes are every bit as well made as Waterford, the name doesn't roll off the tongue like Waterford does and I'm sure it hurts their sales.

Having read Icelandic sagas a little, I like Gunnar. Viking with a sense of humor and a Persian bow. Who cooler to name something after, even, or especially after a beloved dog.

[sales guy]

Giant and Blue because they are stupid names.

You know how they got their name, right? It's just as dumb as the name!

[sipmeister]

Having raced with friends in the early '70s who were on Italian Masi bikes and having raced on my own Masi from the first batch of California Masis as a 21 year old, I HATE the new "Masi" line of bikes, totally on an unsubstantiated basis. So there.

Completely agree. The older stuff is gold. The new stuff is pathetic and a disgrace to the name and history of Masi.

[kramnnim]

You know how they got their name, right? It's just as dumb as the name!

Do tell!

Ah, and probably mentioned already...

SRAM

:bike:

[sales guy]

Do tell!

Ah, and probably mentioned already...

SRAM

:bike:

So the company was started by Peter Skop. He invented some scuba gear stuff and is pretty rich from it. He liked racing bikes and figured he could/should start a bike company. He had a bunch of bike made, the first batch was blue in color. They were trying to figure out a name for the company and when they saw the bikes in the color blue, they decided to use that as their name....BLUE.

Like I said, just as dumb as the name!

[cadence90]

.... ..
.

[YesNdeed]

My dislike for Giant is not completely unsubstantiated, and began with this great little read some time ago. You'll have to read for it https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/italian-job. Schwinn's naivety is also much to blame.

[euro]

Jamis. Never liked them and never will. Owned one or two. Poorly represented locally so that may have something to do with it as well.


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[peanutgallery]

Where to begin, so much derision for me

Top of the list, hipster builders with more instagram posts than bike builds. Especially when they're not "proper" bikes, but instead - double decker bikes with custom painted baskets. Same company usually markets a logoed wellie with their logo on it for cross. IE: Vanilla/Speedwagen

[Corso]

This thread makes about as much sense to me as the yearly “what bidon cage should I buy”…

…but I like it.

PS. Sachs should not be on this list for any reason, imagined or real. Period.

[shovelhd]

I always have thought that Felt was a very odd material to use for a bicycle frame.

:banana:
.
.

Vertically stiff and laterally compliant

[veggieburger]

My dislike for Giant is not completely unsubstantiated, and began with this great little read some time ago. You'll have to read for it https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/italian-job. Schwinn's naivety is also much to blame.

Excellent article, thanks!

[Bob Ross]

I HATE the new "Masi" line of bikes, totally on an unsubstantiated basis.
Completely agree. The older stuff is gold. The new stuff is pathetic and a disgrace to the name and history of Masi.

When you guys talk about the "new" Masi bikes, are those the same Masi frames that Excel Sports was selling ~10 years ago? I'm positive those weren't the "original" Masi frames, but I'm not sure if the name has been passed on to yet another opportunist in the past decade, or if those Excel-sold frames were already new and hence unworthy of respect.

[Wayne77]

sachs. i just dont get all the fuss. intellectually i know they're well made. i like e-richie's philosophy -- at least what i can glean from interviews and the forum. probably would be good to BS with in his workshop over a couple beers.

but the bikes...there's no bike allure for me. zilch.

there was a time i felt similarly about pegoretti, but ive since developed a taste for his work.

{shrug}

Ironically, this type of strong dislike, that is tied more to aesthetics, brand ethos, and related culture is probably good for low volume builders. It's a polarization that may drive people away from a certain brand, but it implies equal (perhaps equally irrational?) enthusiasm for another brand. These are the people driving their business. A strong yet very intangible dislike for a given brand aesthetic implies a very niche type of buyer, possibly a very educated buyer, and is not representative of the majority out there who walk into the closest shop looking for a non polarizing high quality bike that seems to be popular. I doubt any small builder would feel offended if someone echoed your same statements to them in person. Maybe they would applaud it? It means you're probably a great candidate for one of their respected colleagues with an entirely different brand aesthetic.

(Next comment is not referencing your post above...more a general thread response): As for the corporate brands called out by many other posts in this thread, the strong zealous dislike tied more to company history, direction, and marketing aesthtic just means we are squarely NOT in their target market, nor do opinions like those expressed here remotely mean jack to their bottom line or how their corporate direction needs to change. Im not faulting those with strong dislike for a large corporate brand...in many cases the opinions are educated, but there are some very broad brush strokes painted here. These are massive entities with boards or management whose members change all the time, respected industry experts willingly coming on board to contribute, marketing teams spending substantial amounts of money on studies that imply the most profit can be gained by following the very direction despised by many here. In most cases, especially the big three, it appears the direction is paying off for them...bringing in profits for the owners, shareholders, and thankfully keeping people gainfully employed.

As for me, my dislike for certain brands is also very aesthetics driven...but it's amazing how my opinions seem to change based on the type of riding I'm into. Before I started racing I had a very strong dislike for any large volume carbon fiber race bike. The only acceptible bikes for me at the time were metal bikes with level top tubes, custom wheels, preferably polished components, etc. I still love those bikes. Currently however I race extensively, and I race on a Ridley Noah and a Wilier Cento1...both with deep CF tubulars, SRAM and Dura Ace, deep saddle to bar drop, etc. I LOVE both bikes for how they perform for racing and group rides with guys I race with. They are light/stiff and they do exactly what I want them to do...in the context of how they are used. That is the key phrase...CONTEXT. I will get back into bespoke steel bikes at some point, and when I do, I imagine the context of my riding experiences will shift my preferences in a way that high end CF aero/stiff bikes just won't do it for me anymore... Currenrly Id have no problem whatsoever racing a Giant or Trek. Guys I race with who own them, love them.

My Columbus Max Zanconato was the one of the finest bikes I've ever owned. I raced it for a couple years. I will absolutely get one again someday. I may get ridiculed for saying this, but the fact is it was heavier, not as stiff, and not as aero as my Noah. The same probably applies comparing it to other high end CF race bikes..Madone, TCR, S-works, etc. The Noah is simply a better race bike (for me) PERIOD. Is the Noah or Cento1 a better bike overall or more "desirable" bike? Definitely not...but some days I might say yes it is.

[Bostic]

Jamis. Never liked them and never will. Owned one or two. Poorly represented locally so that may have something to do with it as well.

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I had a 2007 Jamis Eclipse Steel 853/Carbon road bike that I purchased as a frame set and built up. It rode like steel, handled like carbon. Still regret selling it a few years back. I was thinning down the herd though and didn’t ride it enough. I also didn’t like when Jamis changed the Eclipse to all steel with a sloping top tube. Their high end line of carbon bikes do nothing for me.

[BobO]

You'll have to read for it https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/italian-job. Schwinn's naivety is also much to blame.

"Below our logo is written 'Pure Performance,'" he told me. "That is there to underline the biggest part of our activity. Our focus is first on technical performance. Then development becomes a question of cost. Only at the very end, the final choices are addressed to allow the product to be nicer. This is the very last step. It cannot be differently."

I have found that designs focused almost exclusively on function end up being the most beautiful end result. It's the products where designers try to contrive beauty that end up being a muddled mess.

[YesNdeed]

I have found that designs focused almost exclusively on function end up being the most beautiful end result. It's the products where designers try to contrive beauty that end up being a muddled mess.

I have a substantiated love for Campagnolo.

[torquer]

Giant and Blue because they are stupid names.

^ This!
Because, really, what other unsubstantiated reason could there be, besides a stupid name? Everything else seems to be a complaint about company behavior, or size, or aesthetics. And those complaints do have substance (usually.)
My candidate for ultimate stupid name: Iron Horse! Can't believe no one else came up with that in 11 pages of posts.

[Lanternrouge]

When you guys talk about the "new" Masi bikes, are those the same Masi frames that Excel Sports was selling ~10 years ago? I'm positive those weren't the "original" Masi frames, but I'm not sure if the name has been passed on to yet another opportunist in the past decade, or if those Excel-sold frames were already new and hence unworthy of respect.

I believe that Haro now owns Masi. They do have some steel frames for the retro-grouches, including a really nice steel one (or at least did) made by Veso Mandaric. Masi is local to me and I see quite a few of them around, though mainly ridden by the Monster Media guys.

[YesNdeed]

Because, really, what other unsubstantiated reason could there be, besides a stupid name? Everything else seems to be a complaint about company behavior, or size, or aesthetics. And those complaints do have substance (usually.)
My candidate for ultimate stupid name: Iron Horse! Can't believe no one else came up with that in 11 pages of posts.

Let's go ahead and add Velo Vie to the list.

[buddybikes]

Rapha - overprice chinese clothes

[veggieburger]

Someone thought this disaster was a good idea. Blech.
http://s3.amazonaws.com/ibike/pictures/329640/IMG_3951_large.jpg

[MesiJezi]

People who dislike Giant for the wrong reasons are missing out. My Giant TCR Advanced SL is the best road racing bike I've ever owned.

I had an older TCR Composite (2005?) that I loved. The ride quality and handling were awesome. It was the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever owned. I thought it looked pretty sharp too:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4498/37574533686_375bf79cc3_b.jpg

[rallizes]

Rapha - overprice chinese clothes

you are unfamiliar with the brand

[weisan]

I had an older TCR Composite (2005?) that I loved. The ride quality and handling were awesome. It was the most confidence inspiring bike I've ever owned. I thought it looked pretty sharp too:
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4498/37574533686_375bf79cc3_b.jpg


May I join the chorus too? :D
http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=210877
http://alicehui.com/bike/Giant/defy3.jpg

[R3awak3n]

Rapha - overprice chinese clothes

actually a lot is made in Portugal, still very good quality stuff as well.

[bikingshearer]

Blast from the pat - Alan. Those aluminum things looked ugly to my eye (still do) and I heard they were complete noodles. It may not be true, and i know some people loved them, but I will never be one of them.

Fast forwarding to the present: Anything from Bikes Direct. Current "Schwinn." Current "Masi." Pretty much anything sporting a name that had some cache back in the day but is now completely divorced from the people who made the brand what it was. Some or all of these may be great bikes, but I have absolutely zero interest in finding out.

[91Bear]

OK, I'm just going to jump back in here (because I asked the original question) and say that I did not intend to make this thread any kind of bash-fest or super-negative thing.

I was just examining my own likes and dislikes and noticed that I usually dismissed LOOK bikes (and Trek and Cannondale, for that matter) when I was looking at new frames.

Obviously, riders have won Tour de France stages (and the whole race) on these frames so they are fine. They've just never excited me much.

When I was getting started, a buddy of mine had a Trek frame from the early 80's. It was heavy and pretty much touring geometry. He was a triathlete and put DH bars on it. Even on that bike, he was way faster than me. But that frame was a boat anchor. I was so surprised to see TREK in the peloton years later with the Postal Team. Times change.

I just don't want people to think I wanted to start a bash-fest. No. It's just personal preference.

To each their own. Peace.

[martl]

Trek
Specialized
Pinarello
Bianchi
Cervelo

[sandyrs]

I really don't like Yeti or Cannondale mountain bikes. It's not the Lefty on Cannondales. The frames just look weird to me. Totally unsubstantiated.

[jruhlen1980]

Vintage Cannondales. DT shifters and quill stems look on the oversized aluminum tubes just look wrong to me.

They might ride great, I don't know. Just irrationally angered by the looks.

[jemoryl]

Vintage Cannondales. DT shifters and quill stems look on the oversized aluminum tubes just look wrong to me.

They might ride great, I don't know. Just irrationally angered by the looks.

Actually, vintage Cannondales of that era have a reputation of riding like crap - too stiff. It took them awhile to figure out how to make a good all around aluminum frame.