OT: Tom Petty

[bthornt]

Full cardiac arrest, sounds extremely serious: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2017/10/02/tom-petty-rushed-to-hospital-in-full-cardiac-arrest-on-life-support-report-says.html

[eBAUMANN]

RIP tom :(

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tom-petty-legendary-rocker-is-dead-at-66/

[William]

:crap:



William

[54ny77]

there's an oft-played live version of "breakdown" on the radio where the audience does so much singing along, part of the way he just stops singing and says, "oh man, you're gonna put me out of a job!"

i think of it each time i hear an audience sing along with an artist.

r.i.p. mr. petty.

[MattTuck]

So many great songs.

Been to see him live twice. Both great shows. (and keep in mind I've only been to like 5 real concerts in my life).


His music is a great legacy to leave behind.

[GregL]

"I Won't Back Down" is at the top of my indoor cycling playlist. Couldn't possibly believe this Monday would get any worse, but I was proven wrong. RIP.

Greg

[classtimesailer]

How bout the part he played in "The Postman". Playing himself-- Priceless.

[William]

So many great songs.

Been to see him live twice. Both great shows. (and keep in mind I've only been to like 5 real concerts in my life).


His music is a great legacy to leave behind.

Saw Tom in concert about 20+ years ago. Most of my friends had purchased tickets weeks in advance. The day of the concert I heard there were still tickets left so a couple of us bought them at the door. Our friends who bought the tickets weeks prior were up in the nose bleed section. We ended up just to the side of the stage where one of the wings of the stage jutted out. We ended up with Tom about 10 feet from us working his gee-tar for much of the concert. Very cool.






William

[Cicli]

Bummer.
Lots of memories.
Tom was awesome.

RIP Tom.

[texbike]

That's really sad. :( I've always been amazed at how relevant his music has stayed over the years. Timeless and classic. My favorite - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4nPa35CZPI .

I also really like the music that he made with the Traveling Wilburys. I guess that he'll have a chance to spend more time with a couple of those former bandmates.... :(

EDIT - Glad that he hasn't passed yet! Roy and George are going to have to wait a little longer... :)

EDIT #2 - I guess he has passed. :( Thanks for the music Mr. Petty. Godspeed!

Texbike

[Bostic]

I was just playing along on my drums with You Got Lucky on Saturday at my rehearsal studio. Great song and a ridiculous 80's video as well. Damn.

[eddief]

the theme for a crappy day all around.

[Keith A]

So sad...only 66. Saw him live in the 80's in Gainesville, his hometown.

[AJM100]

Running Down a Dream . . . Into the Great Wide-open . . . list goes on and on . . . RIP

[dustyrider]

.

[OtayBW]

What a shame and a surprise. RIP Tom.

[David Tollefson]

How bout the part he played in "The Postman". Playing himself-- Priceless.

Loved that line.

Postman: I know you. You're famous.
TP: I used to be.

The music world is richer for him having been alive, and lesser now that he's gone.

[rustychisel]

getting conflicting reports here.... not deceased?? Massive cardiac arrest?

Hope for the best; one of the great troubadours.

[ultraman6970]

The traveling wilburys are reducing little by little, only bob dylan and jeff lynne are still with us.

[wpod]

Sad and tragic news. Tom Petty the real deal and will be missed immensely. RIP TP

[bironi]

getting conflicting reports here.... not deceased?? Massive cardiac arrest?

Hope for the best; one of the great troubadours.

Yes, conflicting reports. Earlier in the day, I read he was taken off life support. Now the report is that he is still with us. I'll take the latter report.

[rustychisel]

thanks.

[brendonk]

This one hit me really hard. Been listening to the T.P. Channel on sirius XM all afternoon. Lots of people close to him calling in sharing stories.

Called my wife and thanked her for buying tickets so I could take my kids to a show this summer. It was a great show and my two teenagers loved it.

Instead of MNF I'll be watching YouTube videos tonight.

[m_sasso]

It is good to be king and have your own way
Get a feeling of peace at the end of the day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp7n8F6cQOE

[jlwdm]

Yes, conflicting reports. Earlier in the day, I read he was taken off life support. Now the report is that he is still with us. I'll take the latter report.

Both true. Off life support but still alive earlier. Wrong report was that he died.

Don't know current status.

Jeff

[bironi]

Thanks for the clarification. The reporting was confusing during the day.

[tiretrax]

Regardless, it's tragic. I recently watched an HBO documentary about the producer that helped make him famous. Brought new appreciation. I wish I hadn't skipped the concert my wife and children attended last year.

[ORMojo]

Don't know current status.

Still alive, according to his daughter.

[berserk87]

I am not a fan of his music, really, but I like him as a person (or what I have read about him, anyway). Seems like a really interesting man and I wish him well.

[oliver1850]

Long time fan here. Seems odd now but in the early days the Heartbreakers were lumped in with the fringe of punk/new wave. Probably had more to do with marketing and being so different from most mainstream rock at the time. Marshall Crenshaw was in a similar but more pop oriented spot, and deserves wider recognition. If my memory is correct, there was a radio interview with Roger McGuinn in which the host played him "American Girl", and Roger asked the host "when did I record that?" or something to that effect. I wonder if I invented this anecdote....

As others have mentioned, the appeal of Petty's music crosses generations. My nieces have seen him multiple times, and twice on this (perhaps) last tour.

[m4rk540]

He has a DNR.

[ORMojo]

He has now passed.

[indyrider]

Damn

[jimcav]

I learned to play guitar with the full moon fever album. Always enjoyed his stuff and 'southern accent' always gets me when I hear it, even more so after loosing my mom this summer

[BlueFly]

I have been into TP and the Heartbreakers since their debut album. Saw him in concert after wildflower was released. The 2nd best concert ever (Police Synchronicity tour #1)!

Godspeed TP; while I stand and hold a flame to the sky!

You Don't Know How It Feels
Let me run with you tonight
I'll take you on a moonlight ride
There's someone I used to see
But she don't give a damn for me

But let me get to the point, let's roll another joint
And turn the radio loud, I'm too alone to be proud
You don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels to be me

People come, people go
Some grow young, some grow cold
I woke up in between
A memory and a dream

So let's get to the point, let's roll another joint
Let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I gotta go
And you don't know how it feels
You don't know how it feels to be me

My old man was born to rock
He's still tryin' to beat the clock
Think of me what you will
I got a little space to fill

So let's get to the point, let's roll another joint
Let's head on down the road
There's somewhere I gotta go
And you don't know how it feels
No, you don't know how it feels to be me

[cmg]

RIP, Saw him when he was on tour with Bob Dylan and later with the Replacements opening. KEXP streaming is playing a tribute. sad.

[msl819]

My first concert was Tom Petty at Lawler Event Center in Reno, NV. Summer 1995. Great show, great band. They gave at least 3 encores. Sad news, indeed. I will have to toss on some old TP today and think of simpler times.

[mayal7]

A Major loss for his fans.

[Rpoole8537]

Hard to believe he has passed at only age 66. His documentary that was on Netflix for a while is very good. It provided a lot of insight into his life and his music.
MattTuck, even though you have only seen a few concerts, you saw one of the best stage acts ever. I saw him at the amphitheater in Atlanta and no one sat down for 2 hours and 45 minutes. He and the band were killing it, and the crowd was loving it.
RIP Tom Petty, and thanks for all the great music.

[Tony T]

NYT: Tom Petty, a Mainstay of Rock With the Heartbreakers, Dies at 66 (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/03/arts/music/tom-petty-dead.html?hpw&rref=obituaries&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=well-region&region=bottom-well&WT.nav=bottom-well)

Tom Petty, a singer, songwriter and guitarist who melded California rock with a deep, stubborn Southern heritage to produce a long string of durable hits, died on Monday in Los Angeles. He was 66.

Tony Dimitriades, Mr. Petty’s longtime manager, said in a statement that Mr. Petty suffered cardiac arrest at his home in Malibu, Calif., early Monday morning and was taken to the U.C.L.A. Medical Center, where he could not be revived. He was pronounced dead at 8:40 p.m. with family members, friends and bandmates present at the hospital, Mr. Dimitriades said.

[classtimesailer]

66 is pretty old for a cigarette smoker. Sad yes. Unexpected? Surprise? Only 66? Of my two smoking grandpas, only one made it past 60. Sorry. Im a fan but lets be real.

[redir]

Saw him in high school back in the 80's he was one of the good one's and will be missed.

[binxnyrwarrsoul]

One of the more genuine musicians. RIP.

One of his relatively recent tunes, off of their fantastic Mojo record, still bringing it. Campbell channeling Page.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_iBKacXIA4

[bironi]

Two of my favorites, both passed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIvNe569Q9g

[Tony T]

Tom Petty Died From Accidental Overdose, Coroner Says (https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/arts/music/tom-petty-cause-death-opioid-overdose.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=first-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news)

Tom Petty, the chart-topping singer and songwriter, died in October from an accidental drug overdose as a result of mixing medications that included opioids, the medical examiner-coroner for the county of Los Angeles announced on Friday, ending the mystery surrounding his sudden death last year.

The coroner, Jonathan Lucas, said that Mr. Petty’s system showed traces of the drugs fentanyl, oxycodone, temazepam, alprazolam, citalopram, acetyl fentanyl and despropionyl fentanyl.

Barely a week after Mr. Petty, 66, had concluded a tour with his band, the Heartbreakers, with two shows at the Hollywood Bowl, representatives said the singer had suffered cardiac arrest at his home in Malibu, Calif. on Oct. 2. But Mr. Petty’s official death certificate, released about a week later, listed his cause of death as “deferred” pending an autopsy.

[msl819]

I heard this as well. The report I heard said there had been a fall resulting in a hip injury, maybe a broken hip, and pain killer from there. I have no idea of the facts. Either way, sad news. Opioids are a much bigger deal/problem than we are currently willing to admit in our country it seems.

[Jeff N.]

Lotsa Oxy and Fent...that'll do it.

[fkelly]

From:
https://oceanbreezerecovery.org/blog/fentanyl-vs-morphine/

"Still, as undeniably dangerous as morphine is, it simply cannot compare to fentanyl. Those who use fentanyl are far more likely to die of an overdose than suffer the damages of abusing it long-term. To give an idea of just how small a lethal dose of fentanyl is, a typical dosage of baby aspirin is 81 milligrams. The amount of fentanyl needed to kill someone is one-quarter of a single milligram."

This is why anyone with access to Fentanyl has a short life expectancy. More revealing stuff in the article.

[rnhood]

Not surprising that he Od'd. I saw a rumor on some website that claimed that Cranberry gal Od'd on Fentanyl also. How dumb. They make their beds, they sleep in it.

[bthornt]

Just stick with something safe, like Angel Dust.

[Corso]

OD’d. Going out like an old rock star I guess. At least he made it past 27.

[OtayBW]

Just stick with something safe, like Angel Dust.
:D......................:no:

[soulspinner]

Lotsa Oxy and Fent...that'll do it.

Patch and pills of Fent???????????? What one Dr would prescribe that?

[bthornt]

Patch and pills of Fent???????????? What one Dr would prescribe that?

Dr. Feelgood

[Cornfed]

The statement from his family is heartbreaking (no pun intended) ...

https://www.facebook.com/tompetty/?hc_ref=ARQZzeBSi8e0ua0n5Qm7n-UP0bNMiJnsxClLHUMVjZTzFt3soqmC7P3Z9Efb09epKNg&fref=nf

"Despite this painful injury he insisted on keeping his commitment to his fans and he toured for 53 dates with a fractured hip and, as he did, it worsened to a more serious injury."

He wouldn't back down ...

RIP Tom

[Rpoole8537]

The pain med manufacturers are making millions and the doctors are prescribing them freely. (I'm quoting the 60 minute report, I know nothing about the pain med manufacturers.) However, Jeff Sessions is going after the cannabis industry because he believes that people who use it are not good people. Jeff, how about the thousands who die from pain meds each year? Are they not good people? Sorry about the rant.
Tom Petty, I hate that you are gone. I'm glad that you left us with volumes of great music, and you stood up against the record companies on several occasions, and won, a win for fans and for fellow musicians.

[Frankwurst]

Patch and pills of Fent???????????? What one Dr would prescribe that?

The crazy thing is there are a lot of doctors who hand out pain meds like M&M's
There are evidently a lot of people who have a low tolerance for pain. I've had shoulder and hip surgery and have never come close to taking all the pain meds that they prescribed from day one and were willing to refill on my follow up visits. Getting older has slowed me down. 40 years ago I would have gotten myself a bag of good smoke, eaten a few of the meds and put on The Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys. :beer:

[Frankwurst]

The pain med manufacturers are making millions and the doctors are prescribing them freely. (I'm quoting the 60 minute report, I know nothing about the pain med manufacturers.) However, Jeff Sessions is going after the cannabis industry because he believes that people who use it are not good people. Jeff, how about the thousands who die from pain meds each year? Are they not good people? Sorry about the rant.
Tom Petty, I hate that you are gone. I'm glad that you left us with volumes of great music, and you stood up against the record companies on several occasions, and won, a win for fans and for fellow musicians.

Agreed. Far more important drug issues in this country than cannabis. :beer:

[rallizes]

Not surprising that he Od'd. I saw a rumor on some website that claimed that Cranberry gal Od'd on Fentanyl also. How dumb. They make their beds, they sleep in it.

Oh you can do better than that

[joosttx]

The pain med manufacturers are making millions and the doctors are prescribing them freely. (I'm quoting the 60 minute report, I know nothing about the pain med manufacturers.) However, Jeff Sessions is going after the cannabis industry because he believes that people who use it are not good people. Jeff, how about the thousands who die from pain meds each year? Are they not good people? Sorry about the rant.
Tom Petty, I hate that you are gone. I'm glad that you left us with volumes of great music, and you stood up against the record companies on several occasions, and won, a win for fans and for fellow musicians.

Well said.

[charliedid]

Not surprising that he Od'd. I saw a rumor on some website that claimed that Cranberry gal Od'd on Fentanyl also. How dumb. They make their beds, they sleep in it.

dumb

[CunegoFan]

Not surprising that he Od'd. I saw a rumor on some website that claimed that Cranberry gal Od'd on Fentanyl also. How dumb. They make their beds, they sleep in it.

Too bad Petty was dumb enough to break his hip.

[rnhood]

Maybe he was too dumb to read and follow the directions on the bottle, or listen to his doctor.

[SeanScott]

I guess Fentanyl does not discriminate
Lil Peep
Tom Petty

[buddybikes]

Hope for new drug (and non drug) treatments are successful perhaps like Tanezumab that is in trial.
Also, Some states like Massachusetts have strict controls so people can't go doctor shopping and have multiple prescribe same/similar thing.

Complex problem, but we can't let those in true pain suffer either.

[soulspinner]

The crazy thing is there are a lot of doctors who hand out pain meds like M&M's
There are evidently a lot of people who have a low tolerance for pain. I've had shoulder and hip surgery and have never come close to taking all the pain meds that they prescribed from day one and were willing to refill on my follow up visits. Getting older has slowed me down. 40 years ago I would have gotten myself a bag of good smoke, eaten a few of the meds and put on The Low Spark Of High Heeled Boys. :beer:

:p

[Tony T]

Not surprising that he Od'd. I saw a rumor on some website that claimed that Cranberry gal Od'd on Fentanyl also. How dumb. They make their beds, they sleep in it.

Just a rumor, but since they cancelled their last tour due to her struggling with back problems, I wouldn't be surprised.

But unlike you, I never have had the need to take Fentanyl for severe pain and don't have first hand knowledge of the addictiveness of these drugs, so I won't comment on the 'dumbness' of these deaths

[Tickdoc]

I like dilaudid myself. Or, at least my brain did. I came home with bottles of that and codeine based pain killers following acl/mcl surgery.

I only took them for one day, though. Ibuprofen worked fine for me and I did not want to get hooked on any of that junk.

I mean, following knee surgery you basically lay in bed for three or four days with a leg extension machine rowing the joint back and forth until you are able to get up and start functioning again.

Does it hurt? yeah, at times but follow the orders and your body heals.

Brought me back to the bike, and for that, I am ever thankful.

Apparently, you can back down.

sorry for that....RIP Tom, you are missed.

[Burnette]

I'm of an age and time to where I know better about some things, I admit freely that I made so many mistakes in the past, that I will, despite what I know now, make mistakes and do things I know I shouldn't going forward. With humility I move forward as best I can packed with the knowledge I gained, all the while understanding that becoming a victim to a preventable fall could be my own fate.

As an "A" type personality, as a person who, by no outside forces, pushes my mind and body beyond their limits, as a person who has worked out at the gym, ran miles and ridden bicycles stupidly with injuries, as a person who is obsessive in thought and expression through art and writing to the point I will stay up all night working on a paper or project to the detriment of my performance the next day, I may in fact be weaker and more susceptible to a fall such as these hard working people have encountered than with someone who is less driven. We have more in common with Prince and Petty than you may realize.

Now, Fentanyl. I didn't know anything about it and found this site and read this article: http://people.com/celebrity/fentanyl-drug-that-killed-prince-has-long-history-of-abuse/

Eye opening history and I can see how death from it happened, even from good people who know better.

"Fentanyl was being abused recreationally by the 1970s. Apparently, it’s appeared on the streets under names like: Apache, China Girl, China White, Dance Fever, Goodfella, Jackpot, Murder 8, TNT and bizarrely, Tango and Cash"

"Levenson said doctor’s continue to give it to patients because, over time, they’ve been trained to prescribe for pain. Additionally, patients taking opiates develop a tolerance that push them towards higher strength prescriptions.

“You can’t challenge patients’ pain reports. If a patient reports, ‘My pain is an 8,’ you have to treat them at an 8,” Levenson added. “The reason people get to the level of needing fentanyl, and doctors going ahead and prescribing them is because they’ve worked their way through lower strength opiates.”

“It’s very, very powerful. 50 to 100 times more potent than morphine and 25 to 50 times more potent than heroin,” he said. “Depending on the grade, about 40 times more potent than heroin.”

However, Levenson said using the drug to regularly treat pain management isn’t the best option, as fentanyl – which is so potent it’s prescribed in micrograms as opposed to milligrams – hits patients quickly, in about five minutes, but wears off quickly as well, lasting only about an hour.

Fentanyl was utilized initially to make the death experience painless,” Levenson, a recovered addict himself, explained. “It was never intended to be used during the course of someone’s life to manage pain. It is extremely over-prescribed and highly sought after by addicts.

“It hits you fast and it wears off fast, so it’s not a good drug for someone who is, for instance, recovering from knee surgery, although it’s widely prescribed. It was never designed for that.”

“Ultimately, you end up with overdoses and fatalities because of tolerance. They’re not getting the effect so they take more and more and more, but there’s a point when more is deadly,” he said. “Long term Fentanyl use leads to death.”

[ultraman6970]

The pressure of being an artist, and the pressure of other people trying to make money out of them.

[parris]

One of the things that's become common and that we've seen is the dealers will cut low grade Heroin with Fentanyl and often times small amounts of rat poison. The Fentanyl is used to up the high while keeping the costs down and the rat poison is used to dilate the blood vessels so the high hits faster and harder.

We've seen the number of od's increase over the years when dealers change which leads to a different "mix" for lack of a better term.

The over prescription of pain meds over the last 25 years is one aspect that's lead to a good portion of this. We have a drop box for meds the size of a traditional mail box and it get's emptied generally 2 to 3 times a week.

[gemship]

What a silly way to die for a 66 year old man worth over 95 million dollars. You think he would've understood the seriousness of this injury thru the sheer experience of the pain. Since he's got all that wealth and lived 66 years you think he would've said up yours to who ever was putting pressure on him to perform. At that age don't folks call the shots? Yeah in his shoes I would say he was dumb.

[bthornt]

In Jacksonville, we have so many opioid ODs that the morgue is full, leaving no room for those who die from other causes. Furthermore, more than 50% of the Fire Department's budget is devoted to Narcan and OD calls. They see some people so many times that they're on a first name basis, and they have seen some folks more than once a day.

[2LeftCleats]

My understanding is that Petty also was taking benzodiazepines for anxiety/ sleep. These can potentiate opiate effects, leading to death. A lot of harsh words for a sad end to a talented guy. The opiate tragedy in our country is complex and has no racial or socioeconomic boundaries. It’s easy to blow his death off as dumb but I think that’s a simplistic view. We don’t know if there was some compelling reason to be on fentanyl, which is occasionally a reasonable but risky drug. He may have been using the meds in the same way as always until he shortened a dosing interval. Until fairly recently the addictive potential of even short term low potency narcotics hasn’t been understood. This has led to a big pullback among prescribers. That should help prevent addiction for those with surgery or injuries. But the unintended consequence is that those suffering severe pain may be inadequately treated and may go to unregulated and even riskier heroin or adulterated fentanyl/ carfentanyl. Injected opiates have created new epidemics of HIV and hepatitis C.

[Tony Edwards]

I am disappointed if not shocked by the insensitivity (bordering on cruelty) of many posters here. A beloved, prolific, apparently flawed artist is dead and you creeps choose to react by calling him dumb. I find that repugnant. You have not walked in his shoes, nor have you, I’m sure, brought the kind of joy to the world that he did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[tuscanyswe]

I am disappointed if not shocked by the insensitivity (bordering on cruelty) of many posters here. A beloved, prolific, apparently flawed artist is dead and you creeps choose to react by calling him dumb. I find that repugnant. You have not walked in his shoes, nor have you, I’m sure, brought the kind of joy to the world that he did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Well put, i agree.

[cadence90]

I am disappointed if not shocked by the insensitivity (bordering on cruelty) of many posters here. A beloved, prolific, apparently flawed artist is dead and you creeps choose to react by calling him dumb. I find that repugnant. You have not walked in his shoes, nor have you, I’m sure, brought the kind of joy to the world that he did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Bravo. Well said. Thank you.
.

[herb5998]

Just like with all the issues across the board in our country with opioids, the bigger conversation we are not having as a country, is "what is the goal of pain management".

A lot of these meds take away all pain, so then it's hard to judge what actually hurts, and how much is needed to a "manageable level". While caring for a family member with terminal cancer for 5+ years, quality of life was better with a little pain, and being present, versus being knocked out from medication.

People need to start understanding that chronic disease, permanent injuries, and other setbacks generally involve some kind of life long discomfort or pain, acknowledging that, and working around it is better than being bombed out on meds,

[rallizes]

I am disappointed if not shocked by the insensitivity (bordering on cruelty) of many posters here. A beloved, prolific, apparently flawed artist is dead and you creeps choose to react by calling him dumb. I find that repugnant. You have not walked in his shoes, nor have you, I’m sure, brought the kind of joy to the world that he did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Perfect

Thank you

[benb]

I've been reading this and reading parallel discussions on guitar sites. On the guitar sites everyone reveres him even more (I play bits of his songs on a regular basis too), so that influences the discussion. There are lots of touring musicians on those sites, so there are way more voices from people who have gone through the same problems as Petty did.

But what I just don't get is bringing a doctor into it. He either had a doctor who had gone off the rails with respect to ethics just like Prince & Michael Jackson did or he was just back abusing street drugs like so many other people.

There is no reasonable way to believe a doctor acting in good faith was writing prescriptions and managing this on the idea that Tom could go on tour with a broken hip and ignore resting and letting it heal and that it was instead reasonable for a heroin addict to go on opiates. The alternative is that he was abusing these drugs. A musician abusing drugs on tour? Never heard of that happening before have we. Especially one who already went through this and managed to get clean.

[Mr. Pink]

I am disappointed if not shocked by the insensitivity (bordering on cruelty) of many posters here. A beloved, prolific, apparently flawed artist is dead and you creeps choose to react by calling him dumb. I find that repugnant. You have not walked in his shoes, nor have you, I’m sure, brought the kind of joy to the world that he did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

You know, I hope this doesn't get me into trouble here, but, I gotta say, this is an example of why the whole white people as junkies is such an important shift in our society, because, for most of my adult life, Heroin, which is an opioid, after all, has been the scourge of the non white urban areas in our country, and white America's response has been, well, eh, those people just have no self control. Who cares if they die. Throw them in jail. Lock the door! Now, as we watch not only white lower class people fall victim to dope, but "beloved" white celebrities, one of which, in this case, was a troubadour for the white Boomer generation, the attitude is, hey, it wasn't his fault, drugs are bad, lets fix this, this is horrible. He had pain! But, c'mon, bottom line, he was a junky. He had bouts with heroin use before they invented Fenatyl. Occupational hazard. He had a choice, as we all do, when he got to that fork in the road. And, he took the wrong one. He's no different than Charlie Parker or Billie Holiday or even Janis Joplin or Sid Vicious. Needle and damage done, you know? I mean, saw him a few times, great performer, but, he, obviously, wasn't a saint.

[MattTuck]

Been listening to a lot of Tom lately.

Sounds like he was dealing with a broken hip while on tour, still playing shows, and it got worse the day he died. Damn, it is sad. Not sure what his history with drugs was, but it certainly seems this was a case of him not wanting to cancel a tour.

He was always great in concert and very appreciative of the fans. I'm sure he would have seen canceling a tour as letting down all those people that show up to see him every night.

It's a shame. Could have taken 6 months off, recovered, and had more music to share with the world.

Time to get going... (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5o582N3wOQ)

[Tony Edwards]

You know, I hope this doesn't get me into trouble here, but, I gotta say, this is an example of why the whole white people as junkies is such an important shift in our society, because, for most of my adult life, Heroin, which is an opioid, after all, has been the scourge of the non white urban areas in our country, and white America's response has been, well, eh, those people just have no self control. Who cares if they die. Throw them in jail. Lock the door! Now, as we watch not only white lower class people fall victim to dope, but "beloved" white celebrities, one of which, in this case, was a troubadour for the white Boomer generation, the attitude is, hey, it wasn't his fault, drugs are bad, lets fix this, this is horrible. He had pain! But, c'mon, bottom line, he was a junky. He had bouts with heroin use before they invented Fenatyl. Occupational hazard. He had a choice, as we all do, when he got to that fork in the road. And, he took the wrong one. He's no different than Charlie Parker or Billie Holiday or even Janis Joplin or Sid Vicious. Needle and damage done, you know? I mean, saw him a few times, great performer, but, he, obviously, wasn't a saint.

I wouldn't say he was a saint either, and it's true - other than his age and his long-term pain issues, his death is not qualitatively different than those of Joplin, Hendrix, Keith Moon, Charlie Parker, Prince etc. They were all sad and unnecessary. That being said, I have the humility to separate the man from the disease, and recognize that none of us is perfect. To me it's ghoulish to go around calling another, recently-deceased human being (here, one who had contributed a huge body of art) "dumb" because he went down the same sad path that has taken so many lives. I have no idea what Petty's personal struggles were, so can't intelligently speak to how foolish his choices may have been, but in any case his death is sad and unfortunate, and I am inclined to mourn him and respect his legacy rather than dwelling on the mechanism of his death and the bad choices that led to it. (To be clear, I am not saying there is anything wrong with your post specifically.)

[ColonelJLloyd]

While true that Petty was rich and could've called the tour, it's quite likely that he considered the hundreds of people whose incomes would have been directly affected when making a decision like that.

It's not surprising, but it is very sad. Fentanyl is some dangerous stuff. Playing fast and loose with all manner of substances at once can just result in stories and experiences when you're in your 20s, but when you're in your 60s and have emphysema and still smoke a lot you simply don't have a body that can take the abuse it used to.

[classtimesailer]

Some doctors prescribe meds without regard to their patients addictive personalities or the addictive nature of the meds which is not a good practice. Doctors let it happen. Families let it happen. I'm not a rock star, but if I was, my wife would kill me with her bare hands before she let me die in my sleep.

[54ny77]

speaking of pain meds, i had a back issue recently and my doc prescribed pain meds like he was handing out tootsie rolls. i told him no thanks, i'll either just deal with it or worst case take advil. that stuff makes me puke, even if i take a half pill. been that way for years, my system just won't tolerate that stuff.

Some doctors prescribe meds without regard to their patients addictive personalities or the addictive nature of the meds which is not a good practice. Doctors let it happen. Families let it happen. I'm not a rock star, but if I was, my wife would kill me with her bare hands before she let me die in my sleep.

[Gsinill]

Mostly a cultural issue in my opinion.

Ask any immigrant about things that surprised them in the US, and chances are abundant use of pain medication will be on the list.
I was shocked how even the slightest discomfort is treated by many with pain killers.

Heard this a little while ago and couldn't agree more:
https://www.pri.org/stories/2017-10-26/why-opioid-crisis-american-problem

https://media.pri.org/s3fs-public/styles/original_image/public/drugchart_0.JPG?itok=Vxw09yf0

"The reasons, says Dr. Benedikt Fischer, senior scientist at University of Toronto's Centre for Addiction and Mental Health, are political as well as cultural. "In North America, in our society, we treat our ailments primarily through drugs," he says. In European countries, by contrast, "physicians think a lot more about what are the causes behind certain symptoms and are there things other than drugs we can apply here."

Fischer also says the aggressive marketing by pharmaceutical companies in the United States is also a factor. "There are only two countries in the world in which direct-to-consumer advertising is allowed and that's in the United States and New Zealand." Other countries have much tighter restrictions on pharmaceutical marketing."

[GregL]

So many points of view in this thread. It would be great if more people could come together to discuss the scourge of opioid addiction and the incredible damage it is doing to the fabric of our country. Regardless of their political, religious, economic, and moral backgrounds, people are dying from opioid overdoses on an all too frequent basis. We as a country need to address this crisis soon and with all possible vigor. Pointing fingers while people are dying is ridiculous.

Greg

[MattTuck]

I'm just going to point out that the data collection in the US is much more sophisticated than a lot of other places in the world. Not saying it isn't a problem here, but that chart may under-represent regions where health statistics are not a priority.

[benb]

So many points of view in this thread. It would be great if more people could come together to discuss the scourge of opioid addiction and the incredible damage it is doing to the fabric of our country. Regardless of their political, religious, economic, and moral backgrounds, people are dying from opioid overdoses on an all too frequent basis. We as a country need to address this crisis soon and with all possible vigor. Pointing fingers while people are dying is ridiculous.

Greg

Well said. It seems like all citizens are concerned but our elected representatives are easily swayed by campaign contributions from those who like the current scenario.

[holliscx]

Limbaugh took as many as 30 hits of hillbilly heroin a day. No question he'd be a statistic today.

[charliedid]

I am disappointed if not shocked by the insensitivity (bordering on cruelty) of many posters here. A beloved, prolific, apparently flawed artist is dead and you creeps choose to react by calling him dumb. I find that repugnant. You have not walked in his shoes, nor have you, I’m sure, brought the kind of joy to the world that he did. You should be ashamed of yourselves.

Amen

[cinco]

So many points of view in this thread. It would be great if more people could come together to discuss the scourge of opioid addiction and the incredible damage it is doing to the fabric of our country. Regardless of their political, religious, economic, and moral backgrounds, people are dying from opioid overdoses on an all too frequent basis. We as a country need to address this crisis soon and with all possible vigor. Pointing fingers while people are dying is ridiculous.

Greg

Agree. And maybe do so without passing moral judgement on those who fall? Think of how much easier it would be for the fallen to seek help if they did not fear being condemned.
This, i think, is the reason why this is such a problem here. Substance abuse has such moral baggage.

[Gsinill]

I'm just going to point out that the data collection in the US is much more sophisticated than a lot of other places in the world. Not saying it isn't a problem here, but that chart may under-represent regions where health statistics are not a priority.

Might not apply to Western Europe me thinks.

[charliedid]

Heroin use has been a problem across all socio-economic and racial groups for decades. It's not a drug that many people are willing to admit they use. It carries a much higher stigma and of course can have a very damaging impact.

I think many would be very surprised and some downright shocked at who has and in cases does use heroin.

[GregL]

Agree. And maybe do so without passing moral judgement on those who fall? Think of how much easier it would be for the fallen to seek help if they did not fear being condemned.
This, i think, is the reason why this is such a problem here. Substance abuse has such moral baggage.
IMO, the only way to lower addiction rates (and the attendant death rates) is to treat substance abuse as a public health problem, NOT a criminal problem. The "war on drugs" has been every bit as successful as Prohibition was in the 1920s and 1930s. You will never stop substance abuse by attacking the supply. You need to diminish the demand.

Greg

[MattTuck]

Agree. And maybe do so without passing moral judgement on those who fall? Think of how much easier it would be for the fallen to seek help if they did not fear being condemned.
This, i think, is the reason why this is such a problem here. Substance abuse has such moral baggage.

That is an overly simplistic view. When people have their addiction "under control" (as much as that can be a thing) they generally enjoy the benefits of getting high, and can bear the costs -- and don't seek help. Typically it isn't until the costs start outweighing the benefits that people usually start to seek help -- and by that point, (atleast in the 3 personal cases I've dealt with up close and personal) there is a lot of pain and problems that have been heaped on the family/close friends of the person with the problem. And that is real pain that you cannot get rid of easily, and that absolutely adds to the guilt/despair associated with the substance abuser and makes it harder to seek/get help.

In my experience, this is not guilt born out of society's judgement (like a teenager being told its immoral to masturbate), but the moral baggage arises because of the person's actual behavior toward that person's close relationships.

This is why apologizing is part of the 12 step program:
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

So, yes, at a high level there may be some that look down on people with these issues as being morally flawed or not recognizing it as a medical condition. But you cannot discount the fact that sometimes people with these problems just behave like crappy human beings to the people who love them, and sometimes exhaust whatever goodwill/love/care that was available.

[cinco]

IMO, the only way to lower addiction rates (and the attendant death rates) is to treat substance abuse as a public health problem, NOT a criminal problem. The "war on drugs" has been every bit as successful as Prohibition was in the 1920s and 1930s. You will never stop substance abuse by attacking the supply. You need to diminish the demand.

Greg

I just think that people can make choices for themselves. But it's easy, so I hear, to get in too deep. Getting out can be near to impossible without help. We could be a bit more compassionate. Understanding that getting in that position doesn't at all indicate moral deficiency. But, we've got decades of equating just that.

[BobO]

So, yes, at a high level there may be some that look down on people with these issues as being morally flawed or not recognizing it as a medical condition. But you cannot discount the fact that sometimes people with these problems just behave like crappy human beings to the people who love them, and sometimes exhaust whatever goodwill/love/care that was available.

Agreed, and there just isn't a one-size-fits-all approach to dealing with addictions. There are many different reasons people become addicts in the first place and there are many different reasons people seek out recovery. You've really got to look at each one as an individual who has made their own choices.

[Mr. Pink]

Heroin use has been a problem across all socio-economic and racial groups for decades. It's not a drug that many people are willing to admit they use. It carries a much higher stigma and of course can have a very damaging impact.

I think many would be very surprised and some downright shocked at who has and in cases does use heroin.

And what kills heroin users can be attributed to its illegality and social stigma. Overdoses from inconsistent and super variable supply, dirty needles, the necessity of having to deal with some very unsavory people to obtain the drug, which is very dangerous, and the justice system, which doesn't exactly have a very sympathetic attitude towards users, and permanently scars that user with a nasty record on the books that lowers most users into a class that will have a much harder time finding a job or place to live, therefore almost encouraging them to stay in the life.

William Burroughs lived into his 80s. Keith Richards is still ticking. Clapton, too. If you don't accidentally OD, it won't kill you, but, the life will.

[cinco]

That is an overly simplistic view. When people have their addiction "under control" (as much as that can be a thing) they generally enjoy the benefits of getting high, and can bear the costs -- and don't seek help. Typically it isn't until the costs start outweighing the benefits that people usually start to seek help -- and by that point, (atleast in the 3 personal cases I've dealt with up close and personal) there is a lot of pain and problems that have been heaped on the family/close friends of the person with the problem. And that is real pain that you cannot get rid of easily, and that absolutely adds to the guilt/despair associated with the substance abuser and makes it harder to seek/get help.

In my experience, this is not guilt born out of society's judgement (like a teenager being told its immoral to masturbate), but the moral baggage arises because of the person's actual behavior toward that person's close relationships.

This is why apologizing is part of the 12 step program:
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

So, yes, at a high level there may be some that look down on people with these issues as being morally flawed or not recognizing it as a medical condition. But you cannot discount the fact that sometimes people with these problems just behave like crappy human beings to the people who love them, and sometimes exhaust whatever goodwill/love/care that was available.

Cool. Understand that. I can't usually express myself well. Trying. I agree fully that behaviors can be morally reprehensible. Even downright dangerous, such as dui. But I just don't see how using, in and of itself, makes for a bad person. A causal factor in bad behavior, sure.
Anyway, I'm just saying that seeking help is hindered, not helped, by an environment of shame and embarrassment and judgment. Will reach more people if that aspect of healing is dealt with later. Suppose that's why further down on the 12 step program.

[MattTuck]

Cool. Understand that. I can't usually express myself well. Trying. I agree fully that behaviors can be morally reprehensible. Even downright dangerous, such as dui. But I just don't see how using, in and of itself, makes for a bad person. A causal factor in bad behavior, sure.
Anyway, I'm just saying that seeking help is hindered, not helped, by an environment of shame and embarrassment and judgment. Will reach more people if that aspect of healing is dealt with later. Suppose that's why further down on the 12 step program.

Got it, and I agree.

[GregL]

I just think that people can make choices for themselves. But it's easy, so I hear, to get in too deep. Getting out can be near to impossible without help. We could be a bit more compassionate. Understanding that getting in that position doesn't at all indicate moral deficiency. But, we've got decades of equating just that.
You are taking a reasonable, non-judgmental position on this discussion. Sadly, that puts you in the minority of today's polarized society. You're 100% right that people get to make choices. But physiological and cultural factors play into what choices they make. Some people are prone to addiction, be it substances, gambling, dangerous behavior or even internet forums. It is my sincere hope that our society evolves from vilifying addiction to treating addiction.

Thanks to all for the constructive discussion! It never ceases to amaze me what I learn from this place and its contributors. I'll definitely be listening to Tom Petty when I hit the trainer tomorrow.

Greg

[charliedid]

And what kills heroin users can be attributed to its illegality and social stigma. Overdoses from inconsistent and super variable supply, dirty needles, the necessity of having to deal with some very unsavory people to obtain the drug, which is very dangerous, and the justice system, which doesn't exactly have a very sympathetic attitude towards users, and permanently scars that user with a nasty record on the books that lowers most users into a class that will have a much harder time finding a job or place to live, therefore almost encouraging them to stay in the life.

William Burroughs lived into his 80s. Keith Richards is still ticking. Clapton, too. If you don't accidentally OD, it won't kill you, but, the life will.

Indeed.

Not to mention the number of users who have never run afoul of the law and have never overdosed. They are not counted, unless they volunteer that information. IME few do.

[Grumbs]

You know, I hope this doesn't get me into trouble here, but, I gotta say, this is an example of why the whole white people as junkies is such an important shift in our society, because, for most of my adult life, Heroin, which is an opioid, after all, has been the scourge of the non white urban areas in our country, and white America's response has been, well, eh, those people just have no self control. Who cares if they die. Throw them in jail. Lock the door! Now, as we watch not only white lower class people fall victim to dope, but "beloved" white celebrities, one of which, in this case, was a troubadour for the white Boomer generation, the attitude is, hey, it wasn't his fault, drugs are bad, lets fix this, this is horrible. He had pain! But, c'mon, bottom line, he was a junky. He had bouts with heroin use before they invented Fenatyl. Occupational hazard. He had a choice, as we all do, when he got to that fork in the road. And, he took the wrong one. He's no different than Charlie Parker or Billie Holiday or even Janis Joplin or Sid Vicious. Needle and damage done, you know? I mean, saw him a few times, great performer, but, he, obviously, wasn't a saint.

I think you have figured out what everyone else has been missing! It's all about a "choice at a fork in the road." If only others had had your insight, we might have been able to avoid millions of deaths from overdoses -- all that has been necessary has been to address the rational decision making of drug users. You are clearly brilliant, and I think I want you to be the one to educate me on the subjects of "bootstraps" and "personal responsibility".

[jimcav]

speaking of pain meds, i had a back issue recently and my doc prescribed pain meds like he was handing out tootsie rolls.
after fracturing 2 vertebrae I'm left with chronic pain. Not awful, but it mainly bothers me when I try to sleep. After a year my dad put me on to an old (1960s) med for osteoporosis. Now it is classified as a mild anabolic steroid. It worked and I was off everything. Then my doctor transferred in 2014 and no new doctor would prescribe it, instead they just put me on Percocet and Tramadol and Ambien. I dislike the way they make me feel, but if I have 4-5 nights of crap sleep, I usually need take something for a night or two to get some decent sleep. My cervical radiculopathy last year hurt so bad initially for about a week I could only sleep for about 30 minutes at a time: I took stuff every 4 hours for several days to get that pain under control. I knew what that risks, so took a lot of Tylenol, Mobic and used ice to minimize the opioids I took. Thank goodness I got better enough after about 2 weeks to not need the stuff constantly anymore. I can imagine how easy it is to go the other way if you don't mind (or actually like) how an opioid makes you feel.