OT: Another "What Car Should I Get?" thread

[torquer]

Outgoing: Beloved Viggen (MT, roomy hatch, fantastic Recaro seats (I can drive this baby to Syracuse and back in a day, or to races 3 hours away, with zero discomfort.) Reliability issues and high repair costs after 110K miles finally convinced me its time for it to cross that rainbow bridge.

Remaining in the stable:
'97 Lexus E300; crazy low mileage (it was mother-in-law's car), plus it now has the hitch mount for the 1Up rack, so this will be the family cruiser for a while (I hope.)
'03 Jetta wagon (1.8 turbo) for train station service, hauling duties, etc. Okay on the highway, but last on our list of current options. 110k miles, too.

So, I don't really need to replace the SAAB, but that that kind of thinking doesn't apply to bike purchases, either. File under first world problems. We will almost certainly be leasing.

Under consideration:
Civic R type: 300 hp, MT. hatch, what's not to love? That ridiculous wing and the red & black interior, plus I expect dealers will be price-gouging the heck out of these.
Buick (yes, Buick!) Regal Tour X wagon: Rebadged Opel, but not available until next year.
VW Arteon: new and improved CC, but also not until next year. Should I consider the current CC?


Any thoughts on these or others we should be looking at?

[EDS]

Nothing to add other than to say I really miss my 2002 Saab 9-3SE.

[AngryScientist]

i'd like to add that i dont consider 110k miles "high" for a modern automobile...

if you like the car and it's comfortable, why not just pay someone to go through it thoroughly and get it to top condition and drive it for another 100k miles?

that cost will dwarf the cost of getting a new car...

[MattTuck]

VW GTI - Friend just got one for like 5 below sticker price. They're blowing them out apparently. A lot of car for the money.


I like that new Camry commercial with the Queen song, but that is no reason to buy a car.

[weisan]

http://alicehui.com/family/buick/buick14.jpg

[mktng]

Golf R > Type R Civic

The civic is hideous and a disgrace to the family of Type R's imo.

[R3awak3n]

I was going to say, I would get a golf R anytime over a civic. That civic looks ridiculous, fast yes but I would not drive that unless I was 17. Golf R is also all wheel drive which is awesome.

Oh also ford RS. But the interior is garbage, if you don't care about that, its very sweet.

[Thrillho]

Golf R with AWD would be an excellent choice. They look good. They are plenty fast.

[FlashUNC]

Civic Type R. It'll be infinitely more reliable than the Golf R.

[Fatty]

Kinda fond of Chevy's myself.

[batman1425]

Golf R > Type R Civic

The civic is hideous and a disgrace to the family of Type R's imo.

I love the crap out of my '16 Golf R. Puts a smile on my face every time I drive it. Just one caveat for the dedicated 3-pedal folks like myself. It was in all honesty designed around the admittedly very good DSG transmission. A 6MT is offered, which is what I have because 3 pedals is > 2, but it is the only thing that feels like an afterthought in the car. It was essentially lifted right out of the GTI and it lacks the strength, durability, and finesse that the rest of the car oozes from every pore. Clutch is under engineered for the power. Stock tune owners are showing slipping in as early as 15k miles. Even a conservative overboost flash like the JB1/4 can nuke the clutch in 5K (depending on driving style of course). Also the shift linkages are a little sloppy. The shifter feel is an easy and cheap fix. The clutch not so much but there are very good aftermarket options available that will readily handle up to stage 3 if you are willing to put in the money. Personally, I'm going to leave it as stock till the OEM clutch goes, then upgrade the clutch + a JB4 or stage 1 tune. 340+hp with a beefy disk and pressure plate to lock it up will be a riot.

Those caveats aside, the R is a near perfect car for me. Plenty of interior space including kiddos and their gear in the back. 32mpg cruising at 75 on the highway and GOES LIKE STINK when you are on the wood. Oh and the adaptive suspension + AWD is outstanding. Summer time with some sticky tires it handles like it is on rails and with snow tires, the best handling winter driver I've owned.

[batman1425]

Civic Type R. It'll be infinitely more reliable than the Golf R.

Not sure I agree... Mk7 R's have been holding up pretty well from what I've seen on the forums and I didn't hear about much beyond normal things from the Mk6 Rs. Also one of the only VW's you can buy in the US that is still manufactured in Germany.

[cderalow]

scooby WRX or WRX STI?

bmw 3 series?

MB C class?

lots of good options out there that'll be more reliable and equal costs, maybe as much fun to drive.

[FlashUNC]

Not sure I agree... Mk7 R's have been holding up pretty well from what I've seen on the forums and I didn't hear about much beyond normal things from the Mk6 Rs. Also one of the only VW's you can buy in the US that is still manufactured in Germany.

My VI GTI has been dead reliable since I bought it, but I'm still going on company history more than anything. Never mind that one is completely cash strapped right now thanks to the worst automotive production scandal ever.

Besides, the Civic looks a bit more bonkers. As much I love my VW, they are a bit boring aesthetically. Shouldn't a hot hatch be a bit weird?

[texbike]

Outgoing: Beloved Viggen (MT, roomy hatch, fantastic Recaro seats (I can drive this baby to Syracuse and back in a day, or to races 3 hours away, with zero discomfort.) Reliability issues and high repair costs after 110K miles finally convinced me its time for it to cross that rainbow bridge.

Remaining in the stable:
'97 Lexus E300; crazy low mileage (it was mother-in-law's car), plus it now has the hitch mount for the 1Up rack, so this will be the family cruiser for a while (I hope.)
'03 Jetta wagon (1.8 turbo) for train station service, hauling duties, etc. Okay on the highway, but last on our list of current options. 110k miles, too.

So, I don't really need to replace the SAAB, but that that kind of thinking doesn't apply to bike purchases, either. File under first world problems. We will almost certainly be leasing.

Under consideration:
Civic R type: 300 hp, MT. hatch, what's not to love? That ridiculous wing and the red & black interior, plus I expect dealers will be price-gouging the heck out of these.
Buick (yes, Buick!) Regal Tour X wagon: Rebadged Opel, but not available until next year.
VW Arteon: new and improved CC, but also not until next year. Should I consider the current CC?


Any thoughts on these or others we should be looking at?

What is it that you're looking to accomplish with the new car? What does it need to do? What will its purpose be in life? Strictly a fun car or ?

Texbike

[mktng]

Civic Type R bonkers ? If a lot of taped on plastic body panels is bonkers... sure.

[FlashUNC]

I mean, its a 300hp FWD car that does the Nurburgring in well under 8 minutes. It should be shouty and loud and obnoxious and fun and all those things while still being a hatch that hauls stuff around.

But sure, only the Type R has "taped on plastic body panels." No other car made today uses similar stuff. No siree.

[ftf]

Ford Focus RS.

[torquer]

Thanks for all the replies. I heart this place!
Some responses and further explanation:
Angry S.: agree that 110k isn't that much, but I put over $5k in engine/suspension/AC/electronics into this car a few winters ago, then a new throttle body this winter, recent rear brakes, and now it needs an ABS module. All at a local, well-regarded SAAB specialist. And I should straighten the wheels and get new summer tires. The bleeding needs to stop! Plus, GM's commitment to providing aftermarket support will expire soon; then it'll only be imitation or junkyard parts.
Texbike: This is car N+1, so something entertaining that also allows race-bike transport.
About those suggestions:
GTI: definitely in the running, thanks.
Golf R: I can only find used ones (plus a few CPOs.) Are new ones coming? This is one car where I might prefer the DSG to the MT.
Ford RS/ WRX/STI: low-rent interiors, IMHO, and if I want the boy-racer look I'll stick with the CIvic.
MB/BMW/Audi (although nobody mentioned that last one): you guys are Germans, so where are the hatches? If cost was no object, I'd import an RS3 hatch, but that ain't happening.

OOT: I love the polarizing impact of the Civic's looks on the discussion here. Almost as divisive as politics, but totally legal!

[R3awak3n]

I think they are taking deposits for 2018 golf Rs so yes new ones are coming but they are kinda like the old ones, very little differences but if you are buying new I would wait I guess.

also GTI, great car and for most more than enough. I do like AWD but not needed to have fun. For the money the GTI cannot be beaten. Interior is great and for 2018 you get some nicer stuff as well.

but definitely don't forget the RS

[Gummee]

I'll put a plug in for an X3 or X5. If you don't want an SUV 3-Series wagon.

Alternatively, you could go for something on the opposite end of the spectrum like Sol from Acme Pie did and get a 60s pickup.

If you want a winter beater, get a newer, but still 'old' F150 w 4x4 with a cap on it. After all, you already have 'fuel efficient' covered. 'Cause 'Murica darnit!

If it's just you, it's hard to beat a Miata... See Sucker rack it and go

M

[Ken Robb]

I like cars that drive well. Our 2014 Mazda 3 drives like a German car but costs a lot less to buy/maintain. If the 3 Hatchback isn't big enough the CX-5 probably would be.

[batman1425]

My VI GTI has been dead reliable since I bought it, but I'm still going on company history more than anything. Never mind that one is completely cash strapped right now thanks to the worst automotive production scandal ever.

Besides, the Civic looks a bit more bonkers. As much I love my VW, they are a bit boring aesthetically. Shouldn't a hot hatch be a bit weird?

The subdued looks of the R is what sealed the deal for me. I like that it's more grown up looking. The badging and stock wheels are the only dead giveaways that it is more than a GTI. I like the sleeper look. The Civic R and Focus RS are too "look at me" for me. That said, my Tornado Red R doesn't exactly blend in... My wife calls it speeding ticket red...

[batman1425]

I think they are taking deposits for 2018 golf Rs so yes new ones are coming but they are kinda like the old ones, very little differences but if you are buying new I would wait I guess.

also GTI, great car and for most more than enough. I do like AWD but not needed to have fun. For the money the GTI cannot be beaten. Interior is great and for 2018 you get some nicer stuff as well.

but definitely don't forget the RS

^^This. The 2018's will be out soon and they'll have some new interior gizmos - the big upgrades are the digital cockpit like the new Atlas, LED tail lights, and a slight bump in power output, which is think is largely computer driven. These cars tolerate a 3-5lb over boost quite well which is why the JB1/4 units are so popular and great value for money.

If I didn't need AWD for the great white north, I would have been perfectly happy with the GTI and if I could have gotten an AWD GTI I would have bought that. OK, twist my arm, I'll get the R so I'm safe in the winter... :)

I'll add in 3 more points for the R's:

1. You can reasonably expect to nab an R for sticker or below provided you are not in a super competitive region (some parts of the coasts). I got mine for a few hundred over invoice. I wouldn't expect that to be the case for the Focus RS. Heard of several folks paying 4-7k over MSRP for one.

2. I'd be a bit leery of buying a used R unless you know the previous owner or get it CPO with a warranty that includes drivetrain coverage especially a DSG. They get driven HARD and launch control on the DSGs isn't nice to the haldex box. No LC on the 6MT and the clutch is a known weak point so plan on an earlier than normal replacement anyway.

3. If you go used, tell your dealer you want them to scan the computer for fault codes or warranty violations. There are a variety of popular modifications, both software and hardware, that will void your warranty. Many claim to be revertable to stock with out any signs of tampering, but in reality this isn't always the case. Get a seal of approval from the dealer that it is stock, or a guarantee that they will honor the warranty in its current condition.

[saab2000]

I have a GTI. A buddy had a Golf R a few years back. It was faster, but in my opinion not faster enough to justify the massive fuel economy penalty and the extra cost of entry. Admittedly he has a heavy foot, but he typically got fuel mileage in the teens and lower twenties.

I would buy another GTI. I would not buy a Golf R. The incremental gain does not justify the extra cost.

But that's just me.

[R3awak3n]

I have a GTI. A buddy had a Golf R a few years back. It was faster, but in my opinion not faster enough to justify the massive fuel economy penalty and the extra cost of entry. Admittedly he has a heavy foot, but he typically got fuel mileage in the teens and lower twenties.

I would buy another GTI. I would not buy a Golf R. The incremental gain does not justify the extra cost.

But that's just me.

ahah I totally disagree. I would not buy the Golf R over the GTI only if I could not afford it otherwise to me, its a much nicer car. Also, after all the stuff that comes on the golf R (better seats, lights, ect ,ect, its not that much more than a GTI with all those extras). To me 4wd is worth the money alone (I love the 4 motion on my golf wagon).

I understand the gas mileage but we are taking 1/2 mpg. I think the GTI is fantastic but if you have the money, R R R.

That said, most people I see driving Rs are middle age men. Not that its a bad thing, it is just something I noticed. Most people I see driving ford RSs are kids with flat brim hats. When I am 50 though, I want to get me an M3, thats a much better mid life crisis car :banana:

[batman1425]

I have a GTI. A buddy had a Golf R a few years back. It was faster, but in my opinion not faster enough to justify the massive fuel economy penalty and the extra cost of entry. Admittedly he has a heavy foot, but he typically got fuel mileage in the teens and lower twenties.

I would buy another GTI. I would not buy a Golf R. The incremental gain does not justify the extra cost.

But that's just me.

The Mk6R had 256hp compared to the 210 that was in the GTI of the time so I see your point in the Mk6 platform of it not being a mind blowing increase in performance. The Mk7 R is near as makes no difference 300hp (80 more than the 220 in the commensurate GTI) and with the DSG will routinely pull mid to high 4 sec 0-60 times. The auto launches like a rocket. The Mk7 R is quite a different animal from the GTI. Consider some other vehicles in that do mid 4's:

2011 Aston Martin DB9
Ferrari F355
Lambo Gallardo Spider
Pretty much any AMG or M car from the last 10-15 years

Not exactly slow company... Oh, and it'll get 30+mpg on the highway at 75mph, you can carry a stroller in the trunk with your kid in car seat, and mash through 6in of snow with ease.

[jamesau]

After driving BMWs for the last 15+ years, I'll be taking a hard look at the all-new 2018 2L-turbo Honda Accord Sport (with stick) after it comes out this November. The engine is a detuned version of that featured in the Civic Type-R.

My daughter has an 6MT MK7 GTI and it's been a great car (apart from sunroof issues). I'd consider it for myself but would prefer a sedan. Also, the GTI's mill is a bit gutless in the lower revs (especially when compared to the N54 in my 335).

As far as I know, the Golf R is only offered with summer tires. (So if you're in northern climes, you'll be looking at replacing the tires or getting a set of mounted winter shoes).

Good luck.

[paredown]

I will be interested to hear what you think if you test drive the new Buick.

People were mocking, but this is a redressed Opel that gets pretty great reviews in Yrup. (although they did tart it up for the US market, like they did with our Acura Tsx wagon, which was the euro Accord--they made it longer and heavier...)

[batman1425]

As far as I know, the Golf R is only offered with summer tires. (So if you're in northern climes, you'll be looking at replacing the tires or getting a set of mounted winter shoes).Good luck.

Yep, right you are. Technically, I would have voided the warranty on the stock PZero's if I drove them in weather below 40deg, snow or not. Not kidding. Joking aside, they were down right scary when they got cold. Stiffened up and would skate all over the place. Good all seasons are fine on the car for multi season use but quality summer tires really make it sing. I sold the boat anchor OEM 19" rims and tires and put on a much lighter and more comfortable set of 18's with sticky Conti Extreme Contact Sport for summer, and Blizzak WS80s snow boots for the winter. But in our neck of the woods, snow tires are almost mandatory, regardless of what you drive.

Also agree that the 2.0T platforms in the GTI and R to a lesser extent are a bit lacking down low. Above 2800-3000, hold on, but as the saying goes there is no replacement for displacement. That N54 in the 335 is a nice plant.

[saab2000]

As far as I know, the Golf R is only offered with summer tires. (So if you're in northern climes, you'll be looking at replacing the tires or getting a set of mounted winter shoes).

Good luck.

I run Blizzaks with my GTI and won't consider running it in the snow on the standard tires. Anyone who gets this car or the Golf R, even with AWD, needs winter tires if they plan any significant winter driving.

It's a completely different, and better, car in the winter with the Blizzaks. I put them on when the weather forecast calls for the first snow and take them off in March or so, depending upon conditions.

Regarding the Golf R comments, I'll have to have a look. I was unimpressed with my buddy's Golf R, but that was the previous generation. It's possible they're really separated the GTI and the Golf R, which I previously considered to be just a warmed over GTI.

[texbike]

Texbike: This is car N+1, so something entertaining that also allows race-bike transport.


OK, cool. Good to know. However, since you have the VW and the ES300 at your disposal, do you really need bike carrying capability with the N+1? If not, how about something older and interesting that's hit the bottom of its depreciation curve and possibly on the way back up ? ZR-1 or Z06 'Vette, S2000, Turbo Miata, Lotus Elise, Air-cooled 911, e46 M3, e39 M5, or ?

GTIs and Golf Rs rock! My brother has a 6MT 2015 R and it's a surprisingly nice, fast car. However, if I was going to do a N+1, I'd probably look for something a bit older and unique. Look on Bringatrailer for ideas... :)

Good luck in your search and I look forward to hearing more suggestions. Car discussions are fun!

Texbike

[jh_on_the_cape]

What about a camper van?

[torquer]

In architecture school, we were exposed to the Roman writer Vitruvius' triad of what makes architecture: commodity, firmness, delight. In other words, fulfill a need, do so effectively, and bring some joy to the world while you're at it.
The two remaining cars will cover those first two; both do their jobs without raising anyone's heart rate. The SAAB has certainly been raising my heart rate of late, but usually not in a good way. That's the main reason I'm taking other "older and interesting" cars off the table. (For now, anyway. After the lease expires, who knows, maybe I'll be posting to ask about Boxsters...)

Other posters are preaching to the choir when it comes to snow tires. The Viggen came with 40-series Pirellis; I took delivery on New Years Eve, and was back at a SAAB dealer within two weeks buying tri-spokes with snow tires mounted. Frankly, I'd rather have FWD and Blizzaks than AWD and "all-season" tires. That would be how I'd go with the GTI (if I go that direction); Golf R gets the full Cleveland treatment: AWD & snows.

[jamesau]

I'd rather have FWD and Blizzaks than AWD and "all-season" tires.

Even RWD with Blizzaks is better than AWD with all-season.

I haven't leased but believe the rates on Giulias is attractive, provided you could get a good color.

[tuscanyswe]

OK, cool. Good to know. However, since you have the VW and the ES300 at your disposal, do you really need bike carrying capability with the N+1? If not, how about something older and interesting that's hit the bottom of its depreciation curve and possibly on the way back up ? ZR-1 or Z06 'Vette, S2000, Turbo Miata, Lotus Elise, Air-cooled 911, e46 M3, e39 M5, or ?

GTIs and Golf Rs rock! My brother has a 6MT 2015 R and it's a surprisingly nice, fast car. However, if I was going to do a N+1, I'd probably look for something a bit older and unique. Look on Bringatrailer for ideas... :)

Good luck in your search and I look forward to hearing more suggestions. Car discussions are fun!

Texbike


I did just that and so far I'm pretty stoked. But i have wanted one of these for as long as i have had a drivers license.

Don't need a car and will barely drive it but it sure puts a smile on my face :) With a bit of luck could be an okay investment.
(btw, can't really put air-cooled 911 in "the bottom of its depreciation curve" bracket can ya )

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4349/36984662485_90347f05e5_b.jpg

[Ralph]

i'd like to add that i dont consider 110k miles "high" for a modern automobile...

if you like the car and it's comfortable, why not just pay someone to go through it thoroughly and get it to top condition and drive it for another 100k miles?

that cost will dwarf the cost of getting a new car...

I am more and more coming to same conclusion. I garage all my vehicles, and use nice rubber mats over the carpets....so my vehicles always look almost new even when high mileage. Not much you can't fix on a older car for just the sales tax cost of a new car.

[shovelhd]

I run Blizzaks with my GTI and won't consider running it in the snow on the standard tires. Anyone who gets this car or the Golf R, even with AWD, needs winter tires if they plan any significant winter driving.

It's a completely different, and better, car in the winter with the Blizzaks. I put them on when the weather forecast calls for the first snow and take them off in March or so, depending upon conditions.

Regarding the Golf R comments, I'll have to have a look. I was unimpressed with my buddy's Golf R, but that was the previous generation. It's possible they're really separated the GTI and the Golf R, which I previously considered to be just a warmed over GTI.

I also run snows on winter wheels, on the JSW and now the GTI. They're really a must around here. All seasons just get clogged with slushy junk too easily.

The Mk7 Golf R is a warmed over AWD Autobahn GTI. Faster, but heavier. Both are quite refined vehicles.

I drove a Mk7 GTI recently. Getting back into my Mk5 was like hopping into a go-cart. It's a completely different feel. Smaller, lighter, more edgy. Definitely not refined.

[texbike]

I did just that and so far I'm pretty stoked. But i have wanted one of these for as long as i have had a drivers license.

Don't need a car and will barely drive it but it sure puts a smile on my face :) With a bit of luck could be an okay investment.
(btw, can't really put air-cooled 911 in "the bottom of its depreciation curve" bracket can ya )

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4349/36984662485_90347f05e5_b.jpg

Nice Shamal! Bet that's a blast! Yeah, the AC 911s have already seen their day from a depreciation perspective - unless you happen to pay too much for one now and get bit by a market drop.

Texbike

[tuscanyswe]

Nice Shamal! Bet that's a blast! Yeah, the AC 911s have already seen their day from a depreciation perspective - unless you happen to pay too much for one now and get bit by a market drop.

Texbike

Cheers, yeah it is alot of fun. Its surprisingly difficult to drive, which is part of what makes it fun i guess .) One needs to get used to it as it will punish you if it gets the chance.

This is the Ghibli. The shamal looks a bit more aggressive but very similar. I think the shamal is over the top tho + those are allrdy quite expensive. This is a bit more understated visually.

[batman1425]

The Mk7 Golf R is a warmed over AWD Autobahn GTI. Faster, but heavier. Both are quite refined vehicles.

+80HP (and easily supports +120hp) is a bit more than warmed over in my opinion, but the does Autobhan feel very similar inside to the R and has most of the nice gizmos. The rub is that a loaded Autobhan (similarly equipped to the base R) is only 4k less than the R. IMO you get a lot of extra performance for that money.

[gemship]

http://alicehui.com/family/buick/buick14.jpg

Weisan you are a riot:) I think your latest acquisition is the same color as my gmc z71, GM musta got a good deal on that paint, LOL.