Wearing helmets 'more dangerous' ??

[GD2002]

Check this BBC news article out...
Could this be true?
http://www.netscape.com/viewstory/2006/09/11/wearing-helmets-more-dangerous-for-cyclists/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fnews.bbc.co.uk%2F1%2Fhi%2Fenglan d%2Fsomerset%2F5334208.stm&frame=true

[67-59]

I have to wonder about his statistics. It says that, on average, drivers come to within 8.5 cm of a cyclist waering a helmet. 8.5 cm?!?!? Ummm, not where I ride. You also have to question the validity of his data on other grounds - one rider in a very limited location. Hardly the stuff on which you'd want to make universal conclusions.

Not to say it isn't possible he's onto something. Still, I'll keep wearing my helmet until I have something a little more compelling to rely upon.

[Chad Engle]

doubt it. I'll keep wearing mine. Don't want my kids to have to push me in a wheel chair or feed my by tube, if I can help it. I'm not a helmet nazi, just figure it's pretty easy to put on. I make my kids wear theirs, don't want to be a hypocrite.

[Serotta PETE]

IF a car hit me - - having a helmet on increases the odds of my head being "less" harmed (that is southern english). I have split a few helmets and lived for another ride.

As to whether helmets cause cars to get closer to the bike - I think additional studies would be needed, In my area, I do not think many of the car drivers know if the folks have helmets or not - for they are too busy talking on the phone or doing something else in the car. I have even seen a few reading the newspaper or a book when I was driving behind them. Real scary.

My take on helmets is I will wear one and let others chose what is appropriate for their riding.

It was real scary lately going thru PA and seeing all the motorcycle riders without helmets. I can tell you from riding my motorcyle that a bug makes alot of noise hitting the hemet - I can only wonder how it feels against bare skin.

Have a good day. PETE

[dave thompson]

Not sure of the reason for this gent's study, but the this quote he made is should be used for further purposes:

He suggests different types of road users need to understand each other.

"Most adult cyclists know what it is like to drive a car, but relatively few motorists ride bicycles in traffic, and so don't know the issues cyclists face.

"There should definitely be more information on the needs of other road users when people learn to drive and practical experience would be even better."

[Bud]

Without having read the actual study, it sounds like some weak research design to me and therefore the inferences made from the research suffer from all sorts of validity issues. For example, why did he choose the "female appearance" independent variable in addition to the "helmet" IV? Why not a host of others? And only one research subject (himself)? Come on. . .

Don't believe everything that is called "research."

[Mon Ami]

Have read the article and am now looking for a long-haired wig that meets CPSC cycling helmet standards.

Mon Ami

[67-59]

Have read the article and am now looking for a long-haired wig that meets CPSC cycling helmet standards.

Mon Ami

But only if you ride in Salisbury or Bristol, right?

[CalfeeFly]

I think there could be validity to it...but I'll still wear my helmet...

I have felt for years that an obvious rear view mirror on the bike tends to make cars think you see them and in some magical way will jump out of their way or that it makes it fine to come close to the bike. I have no statistics or data but just watching cars and how some react to bikes. I believe in bright colors to be seen. Plus I believe in a lot of USA/Red, White and Blue as rednecks and such react differently even if you are one of those weirdo types on a bike.

Lastly my favorite protection against cars coming close is my jacket when it is colder. It is a clone that the local police wear without the markings. You CANNOT BELIEVE how polite cars can be, how far they can pull out away from you as they pass, how many wave you through a left turn and on and on when they see that jacket. It happened by chance when they bought a jacket the same as mine. At first I could never understand where when wearing it I had such nice rides. I thought it was the bright yellow alone. Then one day in a bike shop I ran into one of the new bike officers and it dawned on me.

The only downside...I tend to get asked directions a great deal...

[swoop]

you know .. stats are funny... and sometimes the real factors that correlate to the outcome are not the factors attributed in the numbers.

it could be that guys not wearing helemts were doing shorter rides closer to home and therefore had familiar drivers around them that gave more space, while helmeted riders might have been in denser populated areas with more traffic and less friendlies.
it could be that people perceived a greater sense of safety with helmets and that they themselves took more risks and ride closer to cars.

there are so many confounding variables that need to be ruled out before you can draw that conclusion that way.
this conclusion sounds off... because the confounding varaibles haven't been factored into the outcome.

atmo.

[vaxn8r]

gasman school of bike riding: Wear a mirror and when a car approaches from the rear start swerving and acting unsure of yourself on the bike. We gave him a ton of grief for that but you know what? Drivers give him a very wide berth when he rides that way. OTOH, when we ride pacelines drivers often buzz us coming within a foot or two of the paceline. (By often I mean once or twice a ride).

[Ginger]

What it didn't say was that the drivers who buzzed the cyclists were pissed off ex wives trying to make the cyclist crash without hitting the cyclist..

[Mon Ami]

But only if you ride in Salisbury or Bristol, right?

Good point!

Why didn't he do research in my town? Sorta selfish, isn't it.

Also, I think there are some towns in the UK where being a male cyclist and pretending to be a female cyclist increases the danger!

Mon Ami

[Ginger]

Also, I think there are some towns in the UK where being a male cyclist and pretending to be a female cyclist increases the danger!

So...you've done the research on this?

[toaster]

The results of the study make sense to me. No matter what you think, people are constantly making judgements about others.

A more illustrative example would have been a woman pushing a baby jogger in a bike lane along a roadway. Motorists will (I'm sure of this) give her more room as they pass than they would a racer looking cyclist. So, a bike rider without a helmet or a woman on a bike will elicit more room for error by passing motorists than the helmeted male. I tend to find this believable.

[obtuse]

i never wear a helmet except when racing where it is mandated. nonetheless, it is obvious that a helmet protects the head from injury. that being said, drivers do tend to be kinder to cyclists who look more like normal people using their bicycles for transportation or because they have to, than they are towards bicyclists who give the appearance of being out for pleasure ie in strange costums. my own vulgar pop psychologoy thinks this has much to do with subconcious anger and resentment caused by seeing people doing something "fun" or "healthy" when the driver is late for his miserable job, just had a fight with his miserable wife, and generally angry. he can on a subconcious level empathize with the d.u.i guy on the schwinn varisty with the upturned handlebars on his way to the redemption center, but he is certainly not going to empathise with an in shape, happy looking dude in white bib tights who not only shows him what he could be/should be doing but also probably stirs in him some latent homosexual tendencies....

just my take yo-
obtuse

[vaxn8r]

i never wear a helmet except when racing where it is mandated. nonetheless, it is obvious that a helmet protects the head from injury. that being said, drivers do tend to be kinder to cyclists who look more like normal people using their bicycles for transportation or because they have to, than they are towards bicyclists who give the appearance of being out for pleasure ie in strange costums. my own vulgar pop psychologoy thinks this has much to do with subconcious anger and resentment caused by seeing people doing something "fun" or "healthy" when the driver is late for his miserable job, just had a fight with his miserable wife, and generally angry. he can on a subconcious level empathize with the d.u.i guy on the schwinn varisty with the upturned handlebars on his way to the redemption center, but he is certainly not going to empathise with an in shape, happy looking dude in white bib tights who not only shows him what he could be/should be doing but also probably stirs in him some latent homosexual tendencies....

just my take yo-
obtuse
Did you sleep at a Holiday in last night?

[Ginger]

The results of the study make sense to me. No matter what you think, people are constantly making judgements about others.

A more illustrative example would have been a woman pushing a baby jogger in a bike lane along a roadway. Motorists will (I'm sure of this) give her more room as they pass than they would a racer looking cyclist. So, a bike rider without a helmet or a woman on a bike will elicit more room for error by passing motorists than the helmeted male. I tend to find this believable.

I'll remember this study during my *next* motorist way too close while passing me on my bike situation. From my own private study, it doesn't matter if I have a buzz cut, or if my hair is really really long...motorists have the same propensity to drive way too close at times.

[CalfeeFly]

that being said, drivers do tend to be kinder to cyclists who look more like normal people using their bicycles for transportation or because they have to, than they are towards bicyclists who give the appearance of being out for pleasure ie in strange costums. my own vulgar pop psychologoy thinks this has much to do with subconcious anger and resentment caused by seeing people doing something "fun" or "healthy" when the driver is late for his miserable job, just had a fight with his miserable wife, and generally angry. he can on a subconcious level empathize with the d.u.i guy on the schwinn varisty with the upturned handlebars on his way to the redemption center, but he is certainly not going to empathise with an in shape, happy looking dude in white bib tights who not only shows him what he could be/should be doing but also probably stirs in him some latent homosexual tendencies....

just my take yo-
obtuse

I notice a kinder, gentler driver when I'm wearing my backpack, regular looking pants, shoes etc. I totally agree with your take on it.