32h carbon wheel vs 32h alloy wheel differences?

[SoCalSteve]

Hi all,

Kind of an off the wall weird question, but do you think a 32 hole 50mm deep carbon rim will be a more forgiving, more comfortable with less vibration ride versus a 32 hole 25mm alloy rim? If so, enough to be a noticeable difference?

Everything else being equal.

As always, thank you in advance,

Steve

[Mark McM]

Hi all,

Kind of an off the wall weird question, but do you think a 32 hole 50mm deep carbon rim will be a more forgiving, more comfortable with less vibration ride versus a 32 hole 25mm alloy rim? If so, enough to be a noticeable difference?

Everything else being equal.

As always, thank you in advance,

Steve

All wire tension spoke wheels are so vertically stiff (compared to the rest of the bicycles) that there will be no significant difference in comfort between wheels. In other words, the difference in comfort will be below human perception. There have been several controlled (blinded) tests of wheel stiffness/comfort which have shown that riders can not reliably distinguish differences between wheels.

[SoCalSteve]

All wire tension spoke wheels are so vertically stiff (compared to the rest of the bicycles) that there will be no significant difference in comfort between wheels. In other words, the difference in comfort will be below human perception. There have been several controlled (blinded) tests of wheel stiffness/comfort which have shown that riders can not reliably distinguish differences between wheels.

Thank you!!!

The bike in question has a set of older Conti GP4000 tires. They look fine, probably have a 1000 mikes left on them. But they have been sitting around for a few years now.

Do you think replacing them with brand new fresh tires ( updated GP4000 ) will smooth out the ride at all? Of course, psi being equal.

Thanks!

S

[weisan]

But they have been sitting around for a few years now.

Do you think replacing them with brand new fresh tires ( updated GP4000 ) will smooth out the ride at all? Of course, psi being equal.




yes.

[merckx]

All wire tension spoke wheels are so vertically stiff (compared to the rest of the bicycles) that there will be no significant difference in comfort between wheels. In other words, the difference in comfort will be below human perception. There have been several controlled (blinded) tests of wheel stiffness/comfort which have shown that riders can not reliably distinguish differences between wheels.

I think we understand the similar vertical stiffness, but what about damping? Do they behave the same? If not, then perceived comfort can differ.

[AngryScientist]

steve - i would seriously consider a set of veloflex tires, i think they ride noticeably better than the continentals, for sure. the roads you ride on, i would not hesitate to make them my daily drivers.

[ultraman6970]

32 spokes 50 mm deep wheel? is that even manufactured? Interesting combination, I would love to try that just because never been able to ride carbon wheels. All my stuff is AL.

As for the comfort of the ride, wheels are a factor but during my life as a rider IMO the frame and the fit over the bike has a lot to do with how the bicycle will feel you know.

Just to start which bicycle are we talking about? do you have a picture of the bike posted in the forums?

Asking you this because my derosa planet (wish i still had it) was as stiff as a carbon bike but was built for longer rides... de colnago dreams are hard to get because evethought as stiff as hell but if the fit is right you can ride centuries in that thing w/o any problem.

OP Which bicycle are talking about here?

[Drmojo]

aloy and Veloflex
match made in heaven
carbon clinchers don't play wel with sustained braking on long descents
look it up carbon tubulars again Veloflex

[Mark McM]

I think we understand the similar vertical stiffness, but what about damping? Do they behave the same? If not, then perceived comfort can differ.

Stiffness and damping are not unrelated. Specifically, damping is the dissapation of mechanical energy inside a component, and a component must flex (mechanically change shape) for mechanical energy to transfer into it. Since wheels are very stiff, they flex very little, and have little mechanical energy transferred into them, so wheels can provide little damping.

Adding to that is that wheels are made of low hysteresis materials (steel, aluminum, carbon fiber), so the vast majority of energy transferred into the wheels is returned elastically, and very little is dissipated (damped).

In contrast, pneumatic tires can have several orders of magnitude more flex than wheels, and are made of high hysteresis materials (rubber), and so can provide far, far more damping than any wheel can.

[SoCalSteve]

steve - i would seriously consider a set of veloflex tires, i think they ride noticeably better than the continentals, for sure. the roads you ride on, i would not hesitate to make them my daily drivers.

Just purchased a set, thank you!

I am always wary of trying new tires as the Conti GP line has always been a great compromise for me in terms of flat protection and decent road feel. The roads in LA leave a great deal to be desired and I've had my share of flats over the years. The Contis haven't eliminated flats, but have brought them to an acceptable level ( if any flat is acceptable-of course on my next ride I will get a flat ).

The Veloflex will go on a single speed bike that will be ridden on a beach bike path for shorter, flatter rides. I hope these tires smooth out the ride.

[monkeybanana86]

Are there particular Veloflex models that are better than others?

[zap]

32 spokes 50 mm deep wheel? is that even manufactured? Interesting combination, I would love to try that just because never been able to ride carbon wheels.

I built one (32 bladed spokes) for our tandem when we did TT's. It's a bloody stiff (yes really) wheel and not recommended for singles.

[SoCalSteve]

32 spokes 50 mm deep wheel? is that even manufactured? Interesting combination, I would love to try that just because never been able to ride carbon wheels. All my stuff is AL.

As for the comfort of the ride, wheels are a factor but during my life as a rider IMO the frame and the fit over the bike has a lot to do with how the bicycle will feel you know.

Just to start which bicycle are we talking about? do you have a picture of the bike posted in the forums?

Asking you this because my derosa planet (wish i still had it) was as stiff as a carbon bike but was built for longer rides... de colnago dreams are hard to get because evethought as stiff as hell but if the fit is right you can ride centuries in that thing w/o any problem.

OP Which bicycle are talking about here?

It's my Kirk, that was custom made for me and fits like a glove. I've had it in many iterations over the years and for some reason now, set up with 25mm alloy rims, 32 hole and older Conti GP4000 tires, seems to be really rough.

Curious as to why you have never been able to ride on carbon rims? I've spent the last 10 years or so riding on them exclusively over 10 -15 different bikes, many, many 1000's of miles with very little issue ( all have been 20/24 spoke count ). Broken spoke here and there, that's it...btw, I am 6' 5" tall and weigh about 220.

[m4rk540]

32H carbon wheels would be ridiculously stiff. Both laterally and vertically. :banana:

[weisan]

...will be ridden on a beach bike path for shorter, flatter rides. I hope these tires smooth out the ride.

In that case, I would opt for this:

https://www.compasscycle.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Tire650x48CmSX_1504.jpg

[Mark McM]

I built one (32 bladed spokes) for our tandem when we did TT's. It's a bloody stiff (yes really) wheel and not recommended for singles.

I don't understand how a wheel can be too stiff. Damon Rinard, a bicycle design engineer who has worked for (among others) Trek and Cervelo, and currently designs bikes for Cannondale, concluded the same thing in his comprehensive wheel stiffness test (https://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/wheel_index.html):



Is it possible for wheels to be too stiff?


Never! How could infinite lateral stiffness be bad? [Except that an infinitely stiff wheel also would be infinitely heavy!]

Rinard primarily was interested in lateral stiffness. Other tests have shown that wheels are so stiff vertically that differences between wheels is generally imperceptible. (For example, see some of Josh Poertner's comments about blind testing of wheel comfort in this Slow Twitch article (http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Thoughts_on_science_perception_4571.html).)