A 'Natural' Disaster?

[Jgrooms]

Sympathies to victims. Sorrow for the loss of property. Having lived through a harrowing flash flood & its aftermath.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Black_Hills_flood

However, Harvey was hardly the anomaly many want to believe.

Written long before the latest 'historic' event and shows in great detail what was coming as well as man's hubris. ...for man believes what he wishes, and disregards the rest.

Boomtown, Flood Town - projects.propublica.org
https://projects.propublica.org/houston-cypress/

An interesting look at how the media covers such events.

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/on-the-media/id73330715?mt=2&i=1000391720816



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[Cicli]

Its too bad. This however is a cycling forum.
Somehow someone will bring the "p" word into this.

[Mikej]

Yeah, there is a lot of non absorbing man made surface materials that displace rain fall in big cities like Houston, and less surface area for water absorbing. Still, my heart goes out to the people down in Houston.

[Jgrooms]

Its too bad. This however is a cycling forum.
Somehow someone will bring the "p" word into this.



True, however, a long history of OT subjects. If one wants to view it through a political prism, ok.

Personally I find both links pretty difficult to argue w in total. The how the media covers such events is particularly revealing.

For example, if you were to ask most people right now what does a "1 in 100 year flood" mean? They'd say what? Just like it sounds, that the flood happens once every 100 years. Nothing could be more wrong when dealing with life and limb.

And my bad cause after re listening to the last 10 of on the media seg it is not flood coverage, so just ignore that :-)

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[Jgrooms]

Yeah, there is a lot of non absorbing man made surface materials that displace rain fall in big cities like Houston, and less surface area for water absorbing. Still, my heart goes out to the people down in Houston.



I found the absorption capability of the 14 foot structure of one switch grass plant illuminating. The developer just discounts it as the "magic sponge".


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[Mr. Pink]

I agree about the, ahem, "natural" label being a bit off.

The Weather Channel did a graphic during the coverage of Harvey last week, showing a side by side view of a neighborhood in Houston taken from a plane, one in 1930, and one at present, but, before the storm. Today, strip malls and hundreds of nice houses in cul de sac developments. 1930. Nuthin. Well, maybe a really big ranch. So, in 1930, maybe a rancher and or farmer or two would be hurting if Harvey hit, today it's a "natural" disaster of epic proportions. And, 1930 isn't really all that long ago, in meteorological time scales.
Same with Sandy. I'm a Jersey boy, watched the shaw grow to be practically urban (in the summertime) density levels during my lifetime. Right smack dab next to the raging Atlantic Ocean. This has happened all up and down the eastern coast since WWII, millions of homes and massive road and commercial infrastructure worth trillions where, not even a century ago, there was hardly anything. You know, back when it was "natural". But, somehow, we are made to believe that a storm like Sandy, a "natural" occurrence if there ever is one, has been happening for, like, ever, well before man populated North America, is a "natural" disaster. Um, no. See if you can find the before Sandy and after Sandy satellite pictures of the northern Jersey shore. Sure, Belmar and Manesquan and all the other towns were heavily damaged, but, check out Sandy Hook park. The whole shape of it changed, it sorta moved. But, that's natural. Been happening for tens of thousands of years through countless storms. Shifting sands, and all, you know, it's in the Bible. But, it didn't matter after Sandy, because nobody lives there. Maybe a few buildings and some parking lot work, but, good to go almost immediately. Freshened up a bit, if you think of it.

[Ralph]

Now we know all know why Texas is the land of unbridled growth, and why most of the chemical plants in US are around there. Free enterprise system alive and well there. But have noticed....they need rest of us to clean up their mess. Hopefully they learn from this. But doubt it. Just like some other states.....they need growth to survive....their whole budget is based on economic growth. Same for state of Florida where I live. Our Governor goes around bragging about all the low wage jobs he takes credit for creating. Never a peep about services to maintain those folks.

[72gmc]

Many Americans build on sand bars and in what used to be hurricane-absorbing marsh lands.

All of those Japanese people built below the marker stones that said, in effect, "the tsunami rises this high."

Not sure the p-word (people) will ever stop making risky bargains with the ocean.

Sent from a house in the cascadia fault zone ...

[Mr. Pink]

Hey, I'm not above it all here. I once lived in a beachfront home on the Jersey shore for a summer with a big deck overlooking the ocean and even our own walkway over the dune to get to the beach. It was awesome. If I was rich, I'd probably own something like that. Which is the problem.

[Ralph]

It's also causing some to rethink their house ownership strategy. Having a fully paid for home is a bigger risk than having little equity. One of my neighbors said to me...."if a Harvey type storm hit our neighborhood and ruined his house, he would just put the house keys in the mail box and leave because he has no equity anyway....and it wasn't his fault the builder was allowed to put a home there". That's not how I do things, but many have no choice. I suspect a bunch of homes in Houston will be abandoned, and will sit there many years before they are bull dozed over....while the legal system figures out ownership. I know I am rethinking the wisdom of having a paid for home in an area not likely to ever flood....but who knows what will flood when a Harvey type storm hits? One tree falls over and blocks a drainage ditch....and the drainage plans don't work.

[Mr. Pink]

It's also causing some to rethink their house ownership strategy. Having a fully paid for home is a bigger risk than having little equity. One of my neighbors said to me...."if a Harvey type storm hit our neighborhood and ruined his house, he would just put the house keys in the mail box and leave because he has no equity anyway....and it wasn't his fault the builder was allowed to put a home there". That's not how I do things, but many have no choice. I suspect a bunch of homes in Houston will be abandoned, and will sit there many years before they are bull dozed over....while the legal system figures out ownership. I know I am rethinking the wisdom of having a paid for home in an area not likely to ever flood....but who knows what will flood when a Harvey type storm hits? One tree falls over and blocks a drainage ditch....and the drainage plans don't work.


But, you're still obligated to the mortgage. There are countless people still paying mortgages for Sandy, at least.

[unterhausen]

my mother lost her house in the Nashville flood. Supposedly built on a 1000 year flood plain. My personal criteria is not to buy anything 15' above a creek on a dead flat valley like that house was. Suspicious of any dead-flat ground near moving water, that means there used to be floods, and there will be more. FEMA agreed, they bought everything they could around there and no more building.

[jlyon]

If the opposite of natural disaster is a man made disaster then no disaster is ever natural if it effects people who did not live there 300 years ago.

The article shows Houston flooding from 1935 before all the development or climate change so was that a natural disaster and these two recent record setting rain events not?

If a disaster if defined by how much damage is done then development will always get some blame because before that no damage would count before property was improved, but that is not the way of humans or more precisely Americans.

Will Houston or New Orleans ever get it right so no event this size would cause even half the damage of their biggest events? I don't think so.

I bet it would cost the same amount as 10 of the events to prevent future damage like this.

Will any American state reverse development to protect against rising sea levels and massive flooding? Probably not; those with the money tend to make the rules. And the taking of private property is frowned upon by the wealthy.
New Orleans will continue to be occupied until it is constantly under water.

SO what else can be done? I have no idea and have yet to hear any good ideas to prevent these events in the future.

Yes men are causing climate change but I can't see any future scenario that we can stop burning enough carbon to reverse the process. All of these issues and Nuclear power is still not a popular alternative.

[buddybikes]

Problem is population growth, nationally and globally. People need to live somewhere.

[zap]

Clay and all that rain, bet any area like that flooded when the dino's ruled.

One can argue that maybe the design of houses should change. Concrete construction on the first level for garage space, etc, fine living upstairs.

[shovelhd]

The entire Silicon Valley is built in a major fault zone. Silicon Valley controls a significant proportion of the worldwide economy.

Let the southland be. They are suffering.