Colorado Help

[Lincoln]

Hey all,

So after one-winter-as-a-ski-bum-that-turned-into-16-years in Park City Utah, the family and I are considering moving to CO. Various reasons for the change in scenery, among them: change of scenery, family in Denver area, Park City has gone too "Aspen" on us as well as several other lesser reasons.

We have one pre-school age kid, so schools will soon be a consideration. SHMBO (she who must be obeyed) will most likely work in downtown Denver. I will work wherever we live.

We are currently considering Evergreen and Boulder.

Evergreen because it is scenic, a lightly higher up so the temperatures should be a little more moderate in the Summer, also it looks like there is at least some ride to the trailhead mountain biking. I probably ride 2/3 road 1/3 mountain and do enjoy being able to hop on my mtb for a quick evening loop. Also, being 1/2 hr closer to skiing is a plus.

Boulder because it is a nice size, a bit more eclectic and has so much great road riding. It seems like it has pretty much everything you need right there so you wouldn't need to head towards Denver if you didn't want to. It would be interesting to go from being a left-wing radical to a moderate (moderate conservative?) without changing any of my viewpoints! On the negative, it's warmer and it looks like any mtb rides will involve driving to the TH.

Any thoughts or things I haven't thought of?

Thanks!

[Brons2]

it would be a bit of a drive from Boulder to downtown Denver...I wouldn't want to do it, but then again I live less than 3 miles from my work.

[Lincoln]

it would be a bit of a drive from Boulder to downtown Denver...I wouldn't want to do it, but then again I live less than 3 miles from my work.
1/2 hour? 45 minutes? Worse? I guess it would depend on where "downtown." I know light rail is coming but is till 6+ years off. Also, the commute time is why the hills behind Boulder (I loved Sunshine Cyn) are probably not in the running, at least for starters.

[Fixed]

I love the west after living in fla all my life park city is cool what are those two bike shops across the the st. from each other? cole's and jan's ?
boulder that is a bike city .imho too
I think i would like to go to bend next trip i go on . sounds like you have a good life bro keep it up
cheers

[Ken Robb]

Being a real estate broker I can't help asking: have you checked homes and prices in these areas to be sure you can get what you want/need in a comfortable price range? Since you are considering different cities are there major differences in taxes and fees?

Lots of good info at Realtor.com

[BoulderGeek]

Check Zillow.com as well, though the data can be old.

Boulder is going the way of Aspen as well, in pricing terms. If you are bringing a pile of equity, you can still buy in to nice places in Boulder. I am an economic refugee from Boulder, as I never accumulated more than $10K at a time, nor do I have a trust fund. I live out in Lafayette, nine miles from Boulder proper.

I moved to Colorado for a love of the migh mountains. I lived in Apsen for four years, and it was the best I've ever known. But, again, the limits of real estate and survival there really make one question their values and approach. In myopinion, the Front Range is a huge compromise to living in the mountains. But, the riding season is longer, employment is easier (questionably, sometimes). It's just pretty weak on the cultureand beauty side.

I would live deeper into the mountains if I could. The commute from Evergreen to downtown Denver will be better than Boulder to Denver.

I commuted to Denver last year, evey morning. It was harsh, and I don't recommend it. I try to only take jobs in Boulder or Broomfield.

[Brons2]

1/2 hour? 45 minutes? Worse? I guess it would depend on where "downtown." I know light rail is coming but is till 6+ years off. Also, the commute time is why the hills behind Boulder (I loved Sunshine Cyn) are probably not in the running, at least for starters.

I've never actually lived there, but I visit often. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

It's 30 miles from downtown Boulder to downtown Denver. You can imagine what that might be like at rush hour...I'd say 45 minutes would be a bare minimum.

Also, to echo what others have said, Boulder is expensive.

[BoulderGeek]

I've never actually lived there, but I visit often. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

It's 30 miles from downtown Boulder to downtown Denver. You can imagine what that might be like at rush hour...I'd say 45 minutes would be a bare minimum.

Also, to echo what others have said, Boulder is expensive.

It took me 1:15 each way Boulder <--> Denver, last year. 20 minutes to the Foothills Park & Ride, 45 minutes on the bus, 10 minutes walking to the office from Market Street station. YMMV.

Add another :45 to an hour if going to the DTC. Ugh, shudder.

[Brons2]

YUCK!

I reach work in 4-7 minutes by car, 13-18 by bike.

[BoulderGeek]

YUCK!

I reach work in 4-7 minutes by car, 13-18 by bike.

I reach work in 8-10 seconds by foot. I'm working a job I don't enjoy, which is not improving me, but I can telecommute 100%.

So, I get my Nove out over lunch hours on gorgeous Colorado days, and look at the snowcapped peaks. That's the compensation. And not having to pay for gas to commute.

[NicaDog]

I moved to Boulder 3 years ago from D.C. and just love it.

BoulderGeek pointed out that there is a good bus system between boulder and Denver- many people use the express busses to commute to work - but that puts you on a schedule.

Boulder is great size, good live style with many cycling options.

Evergreen can be prettier in some places, is much closer to the skiing (in terms of time at least 45 minutes closer). The I-70 corridor will either become your friend or worst enemy. Patience is the key.

Evergreen is not nearly as left wing as Boulder. That is a plus to some people.

Unless you live right near the town center in Evergreen - it's in the car for everything. Most of Boulder if very convenient by bike or walking.

Evergreen, on average, has lower housing costs.

If Boulder is out of the question, there is also Golden - parts of which are very nice.

Either way, it's a wonderful place to live.

Good Luck.

[Ken Robb]

Zillow is generally no better than a guess ATMO. In a new tract area where no home has changed much from new it can be close to correct but in areas of custom homes and mixed remodeled and tired homes it's worthless to actually misleading.

[Bud]

it would be a bit of a drive from Boulder to downtown Denver...I wouldn't want to do it, but then again I live less than 3 miles from my work.

It is not a problem at all. We have a good bus system (RTD) and there are frequent express buses between the two places. My wife work in Denver (LoDo) and we live in Louisville. SHe drives four miles to the PnR, gets a non stop express to Market Street station, and her door to door commute time is 40 minutes. Best of all, she doesn't pay for gas or deal with driving and parking (the bus pass is often subsidized by the employer- check into the EcoPass). As long as you're in (or very near) LoDo, it's cool.

Bussing from Evergreen is not as easy. I have a friend that lives up there and works in LoDo and the bus schedule is not as frequent.

As far as real estate, a nice alternative to Boulder is just to the East in Louisville, Lafayette, Superior etc. I live 7.5 miles from my building on campus in Boulder (an easy bike or bus ride) and we are able to own a home here that we couldn't dream of affording in Boulder.

Acknowledging my extreme bias, Boulder county is an awesome place to ride (road and mtb). While there are some good roads to ride up near Evergreen, the traffic can be crazy. Boulder is very bike friendly.

[Bud]

We one pre-school age kid, so schools will soon be a consideration. SHMBO (she who must be obeyed) will most likely work in downtown Denver. I will work wherever we live.


Oh and if you have questions or want to talk about schools, pm me. I'm an educator and can help you learn about local schools, districts, etc. if you like.

[BoulderGeek]

Bud, we really do need to meet up for a ride before the snow falls!

I was thinking that I should have called you as I rode Lefthand last Sunday.

[Bud]

Lefthand rocks. . .

My wife and I are doing the Buffalo classic this weekend. SHe wanted to do it, and it'll be nice to ride togehter again. I've been on my own since Ride the Rockies.

I've got the bike at work most days, so if you want to ride Flagstaff or something else midweek sometime, pm me. I can be pretty flexible with the schedule.

[Serotta PETE]

Being a real estate broker I can't help asking: have you checked homes and prices in these areas to be sure you can get what you want/need in a comfortable price range? Since you are considering different cities are there major differences in taxes and fees?

Lots of good info at Realtor.com

Boulder prices would make Ken even get bug eyed. I love it out there but can not afford the homes............................... :crap:

[Dave]

I moved to Denver three years ago and chose Highlands Ranch as the place to build a new home. Housing is not cheap, but cheaper than Boulder or Evergreen. My wife commutes 26 miles to the downtown area (17th and Lawrence). Leaving early, she can make the trip to work in 35 minutes and home in 45 minutes or less. Major upgrades to I-25 were just completed, so the ride home has improved greatly.

We have friends who live in Evergreen and work downtown. The drive is probably not much longer, but the climb up to Evergreen often gets dicey in the winter. It would be about 35 miles closer to the ski resorts.

Personally, I like Highlands Ranch because it's only about 20 years since the community started development. There are many new schools in the community. The children in my area can walk to elementary, middle or high schools. It's a planned community with very wide streets that have wide shoulders/bike lanes on all major arteries. The roads were obviously planned to handle the maximum population of 100,000. Right now there are around 80,000 residents.

I ride 11 miles from my house to the west side of Chatfield reservoir (Wadsworth and Deer Creek Canyon Road). 4 miles up Deer Creek and you're climbing a mountain. My regular route includes a fairly challenging 10 mile climb. If I chose to continue on, there are nicely paved rural mountain roads that will get you to Conifer and on to Evergreen.

[tch]

one of the recent Outside magazines. They had a really humorous piece about living in Boulder and the challenges that everyday mortals might face. If you really want to get into riding, rock-climbing, skiing, or even competitive money-making know that there are about 1,000 fitter, faster, better - and better looking - humans in Boulder in your chosen field. It can get intimidating. Still...as all the previous posters and the crowds who keep coming testify, it's a great place.

[Lincoln]

Thank you all for the time and thought you put into your replies.

The decision is up to me at this point, so the feedback is all very helpful. SHMBO knew when she married me that I might never leave Park City. Also, it's her family that is in Denver-so she would gladly go but knows it has to be 100% my initiative.

As far as housing goes, I built our home (=sweat equity) and got lucky on market timing a little while back so we have a substantial amount of equity. Also, we have pretty modest requirements--we care much more about the environment around our home than the house itself (plus a fixer-upper is always a good option for us). I've looked at the MLSs online and did some drive-bys in Boulder last month, we certainly won't be mortgage free but it won't be any more than here.

Fixed- Park City is pretty great, you are right these are good choices to have in life-and I do know it. Good memory, Cole's and Jan's are the two shops you are thinking of; I spent a few Summers wrenching at Jan's but even having worked there I find I usually go to a shop in Salt Lake (Contender) these days. Bend is awesome, some good friends of mine from here moved there a couple of years ago and they love it. I visited them last summer. The road riding looks very nice but maybe a little lacking in options? If it was easier for us to visit family from there it would be an option.

Ken- I agree, Zillow is a pretty crude tool especially in areas that aren't very homogenous.

Thanks for all the suggestions on some other areas; I will check some of them out. My wife's parents are in Erie (just down Baseline from Lafayette) so anything closer than 20 minutes to there is a no-no, 30-40 minutes is better. The West side of Boulder is just barely in the comfort zone. Her brother and his family are in Genesee which is one of the pluses to Evergreen.

My wife is OK with a bit of a commute (I couldn't handle it!). She does 30 minutes or so now (plus at least another 30-45minutes of driving during the day). I would think a typical day of 30-45 minutes is OK in her world. An hour is probably pushing it. The winter weather is not a big deal, from what I can tell we deal with more of it here than is typical there.

tch- I'll look for that article. I can't imagine it's any "worse" than Park City. I've had some athletic achievements but I'm a family guy now and know my place in the peloton. :)

Bud- Thanks if we decide to go for it, I will take you up on your offer of school advice.

Park City is still a great place, but it has changed. It used to be that the millionaire-2nd-home-owner lived next to the ski-bum who lived next to the trust-funder who lived next to the plumber and the biggest difference was the age of the Subaru that they drove. Now it is Ferraris and Bentleys; 911's and Range Rovers are a dime a dozen. Exclusive gated communities and private this and that. And people want you to know it's theirs. There are still lots of great people here but they are slowly becoming the minority. It used to be that the outdoors and outdoor activities were the common denominator that brought everyone here together. Now it's more and more about seeing and being seen. It's not intolerable but I'm also not sure it's the best environment to bring my little one up in. At least this invasion has made it financially possible for us to consider this move!

[Ken Robb]

Oops, Park City seems to have gone the way of La Jolla. At least we still have a real hardware store on the main drag because the owners have owned the property for years and the latest generation still enjoys the business. If they didn't we'd have another store selling Rolexes :crap:

[Lincoln]

Ken,

Actually, I think La Jolla has come to Park City :beer:

[vaxn8r]

Park City is still a great place, but it has changed. It used to be that the millionaire-2nd-home-owner lived next to the ski-bum who lived next to the trust-funder who lived next to the plumber and the biggest difference was the age of the Subaru that they drove. Now it is Ferraris and Bentleys; 911's and Range Rovers are a dime a dozen. Exclusive gated communities and private this and that. And people want you to know it's theirs. There are still lots of great people here but they are slowly becoming the minority. It used to be that the outdoors and outdoor activities were the common denominator that brought everyone here together. Now it's more and more about seeing and being seen. It's not intolerable but I'm also not sure it's the best environment to bring my little one up in. At least this invasion has made it financially possible for us to consider this move!
I've been coming to Park City since the late 70's. Not much happened there in terms of growth until about 6-8 years ago leading up to the Olympics. Since then you can hardly recognize the place anymore. My parents owned a condo and a lot on the Aerie. I think that lot did not appreciate in value for a good 20 years. Now it's outta site. So are the rinky dink "Ski team" condos, if they haven't been bulldozed by now. A lot of places have been bulldozed...3 Kings is gone I believe. Anyhow, I hear what you're saying and it's all true. Just look out that you don't jump out of the frying pan....into, er, Boulder maybe.

BTW, your motives for leaving Park City mirror my own when I moved here from SoCal 15 years ago. I was looking to get out of the huge dollar consumerism and raise my kids in a more down to earth place with good schools, moderate size and amenities, no commuting and of course, great cycling. I rationalize riding in the rain with "beats the heck out of riding in smog and traffic---and by a country mile too." Good luck with your decision man.

[Lincoln]

I've been coming to Park City since the late 70's. Not much happened there in terms of growth until about 6-8 years ago leading up to the Olympics. Since then you can hardly recognize the place anymore. My parents owned a condo and a lot on the Aerie. I think that lot did not appreciate in value for a good 20 years. Now it's outta site. So are the rinky dink "Ski team" condos, if they haven't been bulldozed by now. A lot of places have been bulldozed...3 Kings is gone I believe. Anyhow, I hear what you're saying and it's all true. Just look out that you don't jump out of the frying pan....into, er, Boulder maybe.

BTW, your motives for leaving Park City mirror my own when I moved here from SoCal 15 years ago. I was looking to get out of the huge dollar consumerism and raise my kids in a more down to earth place with good schools, moderate size and amenities, no commuting and of course, great cycling. I rationalize riding in the rain with "beats the heck out of riding in smog and traffic---and by a country mile too." Good luck with your decision man.

Vax,

I forgot that our mutual friend mentioned that you had some family ties to this area.

Actually, all of the 90's saw nice steady growth, generally in the 8-10% per year range (just enough to keep my seasonally-under-employed butt one step behind it!). Then the market went flatline from about '99 until '03 (which is when I was finally able to get in) and then it went bonkers for a couple of years and is flattening out now. Three Kings is still there and we havent seen as much bulldozing as I would have expected. Many of the older complexes are getting complete makeovers instead. A fixed-up 2br Ski Team condo. would be about 500k. A lot in the Aerie would be 600k to 1m depending on location. Yikes.

I understand your advice about the frying pan and that is a bit of a concern. I think Boulder is a bit of a different beast from my fair "resort" town but it could still be an interesting animal!

Lincoln

[Hank Scorpio]

What about Golden? Sort of between denver and boulder. You could jump on Colfax and be in denver in 25 minutes? I may be wrong about the commute and I don't know anything about school sytems. I did the ski bum thing 10 years ago in Summit county.

[Bud]

What about Golden? Sort of between denver and boulder. You could jump on Colfax and be in denver in 25 minutes? I may be wrong about the commute and I don't know anything about school sytems. I did the ski bum thing 10 years ago in Summit county.

I lived in Golden for a year. My wife had to commute to LoDo everyday and I went to Boulder. Golden is an awesome town, but it is quite inconvenient for those two commutes. The bus schedule to each place isn't as good as what we have now, and driving into Denver on 6 can suck.

[Brons2]

It is not a problem at all. We have a good bus system (RTD) and there are frequent express buses between the two places. My wife work in Denver (LoDo) and we live in Louisville. SHe drives four miles to the PnR, gets a non stop express to Market Street station, and her door to door commute time is 40 minutes. Best of all, she doesn't pay for gas or deal with driving and parking (the bus pass is often subsidized by the employer- check into the EcoPass). As long as you're in (or very near) LoDo, it's cool.

Bussing from Evergreen is not as easy. I have a friend that lives up there and works in LoDo and the bus schedule is not as frequent.

As far as real estate, a nice alternative to Boulder is just to the East in Louisville, Lafayette, Superior etc. I live 7.5 miles from my building on campus in Boulder (an easy bike or bus ride) and we are able to own a home here that we couldn't dream of affording in Boulder.

Acknowledging my extreme bias, Boulder county is an awesome place to ride (road and mtb). While there are some good roads to ride up near Evergreen, the traffic can be crazy. Boulder is very bike friendly.

A 40 minute commute is not and will ever be in my plans, unless maybe if it's on my bike. But I understand the vast majority of Americans don't seem to mind a 40 minute commute.

I stayed in Louisville last time I was up there at a fairly new hotel right off of 36, had a pretty good time. Went to some Italian place in the older part of town, met some locals and hung out for a while.

[Bud]

A 40 minute commute is not and will ever be in my plans, unless maybe if it's on my bike. But I understand the vast majority of Americans don't seem to mind a 40 minute commute.


We lived in Houston for 3 years and that was the absolute worst place in the world to commute (sorry, Houstonians, but it sucked). My wife had to drive 16 miles (no public transport to speak of) and it took her 45 minutes to an hour. 40 minutes of peace and nice scenery on the bus is an easy price to pay for our current quality of life.

[Brons2]

No arguments here, Houston probably more than any other city in the world has built around the automobile. I have lived there before and the commuting is simply awful.

Although...there is a bike path in West Houston that is usable if you are commuting from Katy to the Beltway 8 area. I have a friend who I've done brevets with that bicycle commutes every day from Kirkwood/I-10 area to Cinco Ranch in Katy every day. That being said there isn't probably more than a few hundred people in the entire metro area that can take advantage of this.

My wife is OK with a bit of a commute (I couldn't handle it!). She does 30 minutes or so now (plus at least another 30-45minutes of driving during the day). I would think a typical day of 30-45 minutes is OK in her world.

I like the way you think, Lincoln :beer:
I used to do a commute that varied from 30-45 minutes from 2001-2004 and I finally got so sick of it that I sold my house and bought another one less than 3 miles from work.

At least I am glad to hear there are viable public transportation options in the Denver area. Even here in Austin there isn't much, and commuting from the suburbs on a bicycle is taking your life into your hands.