Suitability of Shimano XTR M9000-TL Race wheelset for Gravel bike

[DRZRM]

So I'm waiting on a disc gravel frame that will take 100x15mm/142mmx12 TA and will clear 40+mm on 700 and ~1.9" on 27.5. I'd been planning on building a 700 wheelset (I wound up with a 27.5 XT wheelset) but saw some good deals on XTR M9000-TL 29 Race wheels, which are light and strong. Is there any issue with using this wheelset for my 700/29er wheel needs. I'll be running tubeless tires 38mm or larger. Any significant drawbacks over 32 hole handbuilts.

[justaute]

Will you be running road or mtn cassette/drive-train? If this wheelset has XTR hubs, then its free-hub won't be compatible with road cassette.

[donevwil]

I believe these have a max pressure rating of only 44psi. Fine for large volume tires, but if you want to run smaller tires and/or want to run higher pressures it's likely worth some thought.

[ptourkin]

I believe these have a max pressure rating of only 44psi. Fine for large volume tires, but if you want to run smaller tires and/or want to run higher pressures it's likely worth some thought.

I went a similar route with my gravel build. My 27.5 wheelset are wide I9 rims (built by Enve in 2015) and I'm running Switchback Hill 48s on them at 30psi and below. My 700c set are mtb Enves. Right now I am running Specialized Roubaix 30s on them at 70 psi (with tubes though) and have had them up to 80. This bike is my backup/climbing bike for the 508.

Regarding the cassette body - if you want more road gearing on the XTR, you can use the new Ultegra 11-34.

[DRZRM]

I have an Ultegra Hydro group, and I was going to build my wheels around an I-9 hubs and use a Wolftooth link to use the Ultegra RD with a MTB cassette, but if I got XTR wheels, I'd likely go Wolftooth Tenpin and XTR RD (you know, matching style) maybe 1x11 with an 11-40, but I might stick with 2x11 with the 11-36 cassette...do they make that cassette for a MTB hub?

Ptourkin, that Ultegra cassette won't go on either the XTR or the I-9 Torch hub, will it?

I guess 44 PSI is a bit low for a 35mm Schwalbe G-One (the smallest tire I could ever imagine running on this bike) on the road at 220 lbs. They print rate at 45-70. I bet I'd be fine never exceeding 45 (44psi) but that seems a bit closer than I'm comfortable with.

Will you be running road or mtn cassette/drive-train? If this wheelset has XTR hubs, then its free-hub won't be compatible with road cassette.

[hokoman]

I have an Ultegra Hydro group, and I was going to build my wheels around an I-9 hubs and use a Wolftooth link to use the Ultegra RD with a MTB cassette, but if I got XTR wheels, I'd likely go Wolftooth Tenpin and XTR RD (you know, matching style) maybe 1x11 with an 11-40, but I might stick with 2x11 with the 11-36 cassette...do they make that cassette for a MTB hub?

Ptourkin, that Ultegra cassette won't go on either the XTR or the I-9 Torch hub, will it?

The new 8000 11-34 Will fit a mtn hub. I put one on my classic king hubs.

[justaute]

Nice...appreciate the update on this new development. I wonder what modification Shimano made to the cassette.

How do you find the shifting vis-a-vis on your road hub?


The new 8000 11-34 Will fit a mtn hub. I put one on my classic king hubs.

[oldpotatoe]

Will you be running road or mtn cassette/drive-train? If this wheelset has XTR hubs, then its free-hub won't be compatible with road cassette.

It's actually compatible with any shimano road cogset as long as it's 8-9-10s. Not road 11s but yes MTB 11s cogset. But yes compatible with new uotegra 11-34 11s cogset. Way dished bigger cogs.

[justaute]

Thanks...should have made my point more clear. I was referring to 11 speed.

It's actually compatible with any shimano road cogset as long as it's 8-9-10s. Not road 11s but yes MTB 11s cogset.

[sandyrs]

The ultegra 8000 11-34 cassette is compatible with 8-10sp (i.e. MTB 11sp) freehubs, unlike all other Shimano 11s road cassettes. :hello:

[eBAUMANN]

The ultegra 8000 11-34 cassette is compatible with 8-10sp (i.e. MTB 11sp) freehubs, unlike all other Shimano 11s road cassettes. :hello:

is that thing available to buy yet?
cause i want one.

[dddd]

Yeah, I have an online acquaintance in Seattle who bought one just last week.

About the tire pressure rating of rims issue:

The limit is defined more by the indirect function of tire casing tension, as opposed to just inflation pressure. The manufacturers thus can only set an accurate pressure limit if they are making an assumption about tire size (width)!
The tension in the tire casing that can fail a rim sidewall is not simply proportional to air pressure, but to air pressure multiplied by tire casing width or circumference.

Thus, an MTB rim intended for a 2.1" tire might be rated at 50psi, but with a 25mm road tire the safe limit would be approximately 100psi, and perhaps higher, since the sidewalls pull outward at less of a "perpendicular" angle to the rim sidewall than with the 2.1" tire.

So it seems like the manufacturers are willing to limit their rim's buyer pool by offering up these CYA pressure ratings which apply to the largest tire widths that the presumed buyer will use.

[Gummee]

I have an Ultegra Hydro group, and I was going to build my wheels around an I-9 hubs and use a Wolftooth link to use the Ultegra RD with a MTB cassette, but if I got XTR wheels, I'd likely go Wolftooth Tenpin and XTR RD (you know, matching style) maybe 1x11 with an 11-40, but I might stick with 2x11 with the 11-36 cassette...do they make that cassette for a MTB hub?

Ptourkin, that Ultegra cassette won't go on either the XTR or the I-9 Torch hub, will it?

I guess 44 PSI is a bit low for a 35mm Schwalbe G-One (the smallest tire I could ever imagine running on this bike) on the road at 220 lbs. They print rate at 45-70. I bet I'd be fine never exceeding 45 (44psi) but that seems a bit closer than I'm comfortable with.
I know it's an expensive gamble, but Shimano is notoriously conservative with their figures. They want things to be 'private proof' to use an Army term.

Don't hold me to it (cause innerwebs advice is worth what you pay for it), but I'd bet you'd be OK with the XTR wheels.

MTB 11sp cassettes and the 11-34 Ultegra will work on MTB hubs.

...but if you want to go lower than that 34t big cog, you're hosed with a MTB hubeset

Now, bump the budget and get someone to build with disc 240s hubs and you can run em all kinds of ways.

M

[sandyrs]

is that thing available to buy yet?
cause i want one.

https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Ultegra+CS-R8000+11+Speed+Cassette&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=10

[DRZRM]

Just to return to an old thread so others can avoid making the mistake I did. Unless I don't understand how to put a cassette on a hub, the information Shimano released on their new Ultegra hub is misleading.

They state in their description (I grabbed their copy from here) (https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Ultegra+CS-R8000+11+Speed+Cassette&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=10):

11-34 is compatible with Shimano road and mountain 11-spd freehubs


but the standard Ultegra CS-R8000 11 Speed 11-34 cassette is not compatible with both road 11 and MTB 9-10-11 hubs as stated. In fact they make a different Ultegra 11-speed 11-34 hub that is only compatible with MTB/road 10 speed hubs, but you need to order it specifically. This text is from a much clearer article from Cyclocross Magazine
(https://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-ultegra-r8000-r8070-di2-mechanical-disc-hydraulic-first-look-cyclocross-gravel)

With the addition of the new 11-34T CS-HG800-11 cassette, ULTEGRA further expands gearing options for riders of any terrain. Designed to fit both MTB- and road-specific (with spacer) wheelsets, mixed terrain riders are provided with more wheelset options than ever before.


CS-R8000 Gear combinations/Weight: 11-25T (232g), 11-28T (251g), 11-30T (269g), 11-32 (292g), 12-25T (243g), 14-28T (300g)
CS-HG800-11 Gear combinations/Weight: 11-34T (335g)


So the part you actually need to order to make this work on your gravel bike running MTB hubs is the CS-HG800 11-34 11 speed cassette (http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-CS-HG800-11-SPEED-Cassette).

Then , if you are so inclined, you can run an Ultegra 11 speed group plug and play without any WolfTooth bits, etc. Hope this saves someone some time.

The ultegra 8000 11-34 cassette is compatible with 8-10sp (i.e. MTB 11sp) freehubs, unlike all other Shimano 11s road cassettes. :hello:

[sandyrs]

Just to return to an old thread so others can avoid making the mistake I did. Unless I don't understand how to put a cassette on a hub, the information Shimano released on their new Ultegra hub is misleading.

They state in their description (I grabbed their copy from here) (https://www.excelsports.com/main.asp?page=8&description=Ultegra+CS-R8000+11+Speed+Cassette&vendorCode=SHIM&major=1&minor=10):

11-34 is compatible with Shimano road and mountain 11-spd freehubs


but the standard Ultegra CS-R8000 11 Speed 11-34 cassette is not compatible with both road 11 and MTB 9-10-11 hubs as stated. In fact they make a different Ultegra 11-speed 11-34 hub that is only compatible with MTB/road 10 speed hubs, but you need to order it specifically. This text is from a much clearer article from Cyclocross Magazine
(https://www.cxmagazine.com/shimano-ultegra-r8000-r8070-di2-mechanical-disc-hydraulic-first-look-cyclocross-gravel)

With the addition of the new 11-34T CS-HG800-11 cassette, ULTEGRA further expands gearing options for riders of any terrain. Designed to fit both MTB- and road-specific (with spacer) wheelsets, mixed terrain riders are provided with more wheelset options than ever before.


CS-R8000 Gear combinations/Weight: 11-25T (232g), 11-28T (251g), 11-30T (269g), 11-32 (292g), 12-25T (243g), 14-28T (300g)
CS-HG800-11 Gear combinations/Weight: 11-34T (335g)


So the part you actually need to order to make this work on your gravel bike running MTB hubs is the CS-HG800 11-34 11 speed cassette (http://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-CS-HG800-11-SPEED-Cassette).

Then , if you are so inclined, you can run an Ultegra 11 speed group plug and play without any WolfTooth bits, etc. Hope this saves someone some time.

Thanks for clarifying this. I didn't even know there were two different 11-34 cassettes. I ended up with these exact XTR wheels and the HG800 cassette on my bike, and have been enjoying them with nice wide tires for a bit now! Guess I got lucky ordering the HG800 the first time around... sorry for the hassle!

[eBAUMANN]

funny this popped up, as i just bought 3 sets of these wheels for exactly this purpose...but im just gonna use a larger (and cheaper) mtn cassette instead of wading into the 34t waters...which is on the bottom end of what i would want for a do-anything gravel/adventure/bikepacking bike anyways.

have a set of these with 11-42t on the back and 48c gravelkings...absurdly nice wheelset for the money.

[sandyrs]

funny this popped up, as i just bought 3 sets of these wheels for exactly this purpose...but im just gonna use a larger (and cheaper) mtn cassette instead of wading into the 34t waters...which is on the bottom end of what i would want for a do-everything gravel bike anyways.

have a set of these with 11-42t on the back and 48c gravelkings...absurdly nice wheelset for the money.

Did you also score via Velomine? That was an insanely good deal, so glad I pulled the trigger.

[eBAUMANN]

Did you also score via Velomine? That was an insanely good deal, so glad I pulled the trigger.

yup, great deal.
so nice, i bought it thrice.

[yetitotheheady]

funny this popped up, as i just bought 3 sets of these wheels for exactly this purpose...but im just gonna use a larger (and cheaper) mtn cassette instead of wading into the 34t waters...which is on the bottom end of what i would want for a do-anything gravel/adventure/bikepacking bike anyways.

have a set of these with 11-42t on the back and 48c gravelkings...absurdly nice wheelset for the money.

Let we see/hear what you think of those 650x48 gravel kings not too many reviews yet.

[pdonk]

I assume that if you were to go with a 11-34 CS-HG800 cassette and wanted to use dura ace 9100 you'd need a road link adapter as a 9100 derailleur is only rated to 30 teeth.

Or use an ultegra rear derailleur.

Which would work better?

[eBAUMANN]

I assume that if you were to go with a 11-34 CS-HG800 cassette and wanted to use dura ace 9100 you'd need a road link adapter as a 9100 derailleur is only rated to 30 teeth.

Or use an ultegra rear derailleur.

Which would work better?

Id bet money a 8000/9100 rd would work with a 34t cassette.

They might not officially say so, but if previous gen can do 32...new gen (with higher stated capacity) can do 34.

Real issue is chain wrap and what front rings you use with that cassette.

[pdonk]

Id bet money a 8000/9100 rd would work with a 34t cassette.

They might not officially say so, but if previous gen can do 32...new gen (with higher stated capacity) can do 34.

Real issue is chain wrap and what front rings you use with that cassette.

I'd probably be go with a 52/36. This intrigues me as it will allow me to save on a set of wheels when I buy my new bike.

[zank]

That ad is misleading a bit. There is just the one 11/34 cassette (HG-800-11). It fits on an 11 speed road freehub with a spacer. R8000 (only fits 11 speed road) goes up to 11/32.

[John H.]

It might be a Socal thing, But I was at an event last week and I saw a bunch of guys running newer Shimano road wheels for gravel-

[eBAUMANN]

It might be a Socal thing, But I was at an event last week and I saw a bunch of guys running newer Shimano road wheels for gravel-

And?

Wheels are wheels!
Throw on your favorite tires and get rollin.

I rode 42c tires on open pros (15mm internal?) for a few months, worked fine.

[Gummee]

Let we see/hear what you think of those 650x48 gravel kings not too many reviews yet.

Not quite the same, but I have the Gravelkings in 700x40c on my SSCX that I'm using for gravel riding and like em.

M

[Gummee]

And?

Wheels are wheels!
Throw on your favorite tires and get rollin.

I rode 42c tires on open pros (15mm internal?) for a few months, worked fine.

We used to ride 2.1s on our mtn bikes with prettty narrow rims. Maybe not ideal AFA what we think of as ideal today, but it worked.

Ride whatcha got and don't overthink the narrow/wide thing 'cause wheels are pretty much wheels.

M

[DRZRM]

PSA

Just to go full circle and follow up with the original question in this post, I saw a thread about deals on carbon MTB wheels under $1K, and did my search for the XTR wheels that Competitive Cyclist had for $572 (tax and shipping $620ish) to share, but that deal is gone. Instead I found the following, which is cut from a PM I sent to that poster (I hope he already had a chance to pick these up if he wants to, because I assume they will sell fast).

The 27.5 XTR wheelsets have been getting blown out at Velomine for a while, first $299, now $350, but the best deal I've seen on the XTR 29 wheelset has been around $570 at Competitive Cyclist, but with tax and oversized shipping that worked out to about $620. Good deal for $1,400 wheels, but still a bit rich for my needs. But there is currently an Amazon retailer that has the Shimano XTR WH-M9020 Carbon/Aluminum Tubeless Wheel (24 interior, 28 exterior, 21 deep, 1700 grams, titanium cassette body) on sale for $449, no tax no shipping. I called and spoke to their bike guy to insure I was not getting only one wheel for that price, which I almost did on Sunrise Cycles once, and it turns out that the Amazon guys (DnQ Sports in Jew Jersey) got 10 pairs at blowout from Shimano, I think there are 3 or 4 left after I grabbed mine. So these are new , boxed, with warranty for $449 to your door. Should be fine with Schwalbe G-One Allaround at 45 psi.

https://www.amazon.com/Shimano-WH-M9020-Carbon-Aluminum-Tubeless/dp/B00Q893YXW?th=1&psc=1

[SpeedyChix]

CS-HG800 11-speed Ultegra will work on those wheels. I have a 29r set of the XTR trail version from a mtb. They'll double as the 700c option for rides w/o the 27.5s.

You would find a few other cassette options from Lasco:
http://www.lascoconcept.com/en/11s-cassette/

re psi on the mtb wheels, you'll be running 38-42 section tires on them? The pressures for those will be low enough (aka sub 45psi).

[DRZRM]

Amazon is down to 1 pair, and they just raised the price to $499, still a hell of a deal. Last chance.

[Gat64]

There is also the XTR 27.5 with 24mm internal width selling for 399 at Bike Gallery:
https://www.bikegallery.com/product/shimano-xtr-wh-m9020-race-wheelset-27.5-inch-650b-241615-1.htm

The Velomine version is the 20mm internal width version. All great deals!

[DRZRM]

Yup, I'm sure there will be some boost version of Shimano MTB wheels dropped with exchangeable endcaps that will explain why Shimano is dumping these so cheap, but for folks who they work for, these are a lot of wheel for the money. I'd planned on building a wheelset with I-9 Torch hubs I have, but by the time I swap the XD driver for Shimano, and buy rims, spokes and set aside the time to build, even given the great price I picked up the hubs for, I would be in for far more money than these. And given that they are going on a bike that will always be 142/12 rear and 15/100, I don't imagine ever caring that they can't be switched. Even if my 650b wheels with 47mm tires become the only thing I ever want to ride on my gravel bike (which seems totally possible) these will be perfect for my gen. 1 Ibis Ripley. No brainer, I'll probably wish I got more than one set eventually.