MAJOR eBay CSI Dilemma

[bobscott]

I just received a CSI I bought on Ebay for a very reasonable price ($420 shipped).
It is so, so pretty, fillet brazed with pseudo lugs. A nice steel fork. I really like it.
BUT it came with a major undescribed problem. The top tube is dented (about 1 to 1.5 mm deep, 23 mm long and 9 mm wide). This was hidden under a sticker with two pieces of filler electrical tape. I assume this dent was caused by the handlebars hitting the top tube. The frame alignment otherwise is okay(equal distances to the seat tube from a string stretched around the headtube from the rear dropouts). In addition the bike shop pack didn't pad the nice point on the top of the seat tube lug and it is bent and the paint peeled off. Some nicks in the paint but I expected this.
How many of you would want the top tube replaced?
I really don't know what to do, it wasn't an "as is" sale, but it will be hard to let this one go. I am really enamored,
Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[beungood]

I would feel the same way as you bro. I bought something from e-bay and upon recieving it , was disappointed and a little mad as it wasn't as described. I wrote him back and complained and he offered to refund my money or send something additional as a replacement.

It seems as though the electrical tape under a decail is sort of evasive and decieiving. I would definately make a complaint. :no:

[eddief]

good sellers are concerned about what they sell and their buyers. sounds like deception to me and i'd request a refund or some other fair remedy. or rip new arse hole with negative feedback...as a last resort.

[Fixed]

bro all my stuff comes from e bay or here I'd bark like a wild dog if the cat ripped me off ...
seller didn't say dent in top tube ?
cheers

[CNY rider]

I'd be much more forgiving if the dent was clearly in a place that could have inadvertently been damaged in transit.

Someone making a patch from tape, then covering it up with a sticker, has obviously intended to deceive you from the very start. That's not to be tolerated, and I'd start raising a fuss. You deserve your money back.

[Michael Katz]

Certainly sounds like intentional deception. Raise hell with ebay and the seller. If you paid via a linked credit card contact your creditcard company and dispute the charge. Do it all in writing so that there is a record.

[Frankwurst]

Sounds like you got bent over. I try to be as honest as possible when describing an item, this dude wasn't. Complain and take whatever action you can through ebay, paypal or any other means of recourse. Good Luck. :beer:

[Marcusaurelius]

I just received a CSI I bought on Ebay for a very reasonable price ($420 shipped).
It is so, so pretty, fillet brazed with pseudo lugs. A nice steel fork. I really like it.
BUT it came with a major undescribed problem. The top tube is dented (about 1 to 1.5 mm deep, 23 mm long and 9 mm wide). This was hidden under a sticker with two pieces of filler electrical tape. I assume this dent was caused by the handlebars hitting the top tube. The frame alignment otherwise is okay(equal distances to the seat tube from a string stretched around the headtube from the rear dropouts). In addition the bike shop pack didn't pad the nice point on the top of the seat tube lug and it is bent and the paint peeled off. Some nicks in the paint but I expected this.
How many of you would want the top tube replaced?
I really don't know what to do, it wasn't an "as is" sale, but it will be hard to let this one go. I am really enamored,
Any thoughts would be appreciated.


I think you should contact ebay and file a complaint under the heading of product not as described. You also might want to contact the seller to see what he'll do. You are also usually have insurance if you paid through paypal.
I should tell you I bought a CSI frame on Ebay today for $180 without a fork but with a dent in the top tube. I called Serotta yesterday about fixing the dent and I was told it could be approximately $250 to replace a top tube. I was told until the frame was inspected I could only be given an estimate. I think it was $350 for a paint job if memory serves me correctly. Of course some small dents can be fixed for much less than $250.

I took a gamble on the frame but the seller showed the dent clearly in the photos and I figured the cost of the repair in my bid.

[bobscott]

I contacted the seller and am waiting for a reply.
Still unsure what I want to do, its so pretty.
I really want to thank all of you for the support here. I used to somewhat scoff at the comments about how great the group was....but no more. Others thoughts really have helped me here.
bobscott

[Louis]

I think you should contact ebay and file a complaint under the heading of product not as described.

Good luck using this approach. I had a similar problem on a smaller scale (a fork) and concluded that ebay is the least responsive company out there. I sent them multiple notes and got zilch in response. I gave the seller negative feedback, and he responded in kind. It was my first ebay experience ever, and ever since then (this must have been over a year ago) my feedback has been -1. I've never purchased anything off ebay since.

Louis

[Big Dan]

Bob, can you put up some pics of the dent?
Anyways if you decide to keep it maybe just get some money back from the seller.
If the dent is not too bad you can keep riding it like that.
I've been riding a steel LeMond with a dent in the tt for over 3 years..... :)

[dave thompson]

I just received a CSI I bought on Ebay for a very reasonable price ($420 shipped).
It is so, so pretty, fillet brazed with pseudo lugs. A nice steel fork. I really like it.
BUT it came with a major undescribed problem. The top tube is dented (about 1 to 1.5 mm deep, 23 mm long and 9 mm wide). This was hidden under a sticker with two pieces of filler electrical tape. I assume this dent was caused by the handlebars hitting the top tube. The frame alignment otherwise is okay(equal distances to the seat tube from a string stretched around the headtube from the rear dropouts). In addition the bike shop pack didn't pad the nice point on the top of the seat tube lug and it is bent and the paint peeled off. Some nicks in the paint but I expected this.
How many of you would want the top tube replaced?
I really don't know what to do, it wasn't an "as is" sale, but it will be hard to let this one go. I am really enamored,
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Based on three similar experiences I've had, my advice is first contact the seller. Describe what you've found, include in your e-mail the auction pics and text to back up the point that this defect was not shown, therefore the bike is not as described. Take pics of what you have found and include those also. Plus tell him the shop he hired to pack the bike didn't do the job well enough to prevent further damage. Be polite about it, but be firm in your assertion that what you purchased is worth less than you paid because of these "hidden" defects and poor packaging.

Your point should be either you want an adjustment, if you want to keep the bike, or a refund. State that you really don't want to leave negative feedback or go to EBay to resolve the dispute.

In all three of my cases, the dispute between the seller and me was resolved with an adjustment of the price to my satisfaction.

[Sandy]

Based on three similar experiences I've had, my advice is first contact the seller. Describe what you've found, include in your e-mail the auction pics and text to back up the point that this defect was not shown, therefore the bike is not as described. Take pics of what you have found and include those also. Plus tell him the shop he hired to pack the bike didn't do the job well enough to prevent further damage. Be polite about it, but be firm in your assertion that what you purchased is worth less than you paid because of these "hidden" defects and poor packaging.

Your point should be either you want an adjustment, if you want to keep the bike, or a refund. State that you really don't want to leave negative feedback or go to EBay to resolve the dispute.

In all three of my cases, the dispute between the seller and me was resolved with an adjustment of the price to my satisfaction.

Perfect sense made again by Dave Thompson. Yep- do it as Dave suggests.


Senseless Serotta Sandy

[Serpico]

...

I gave the seller negative feedback, and he responded in kind.

...

This is what I dislike about eBay feedback--the cold war-ish 'mutually assured destruction' that keeps bad sellers from getting negative feedback.

I have 100% positive feedback, but only because I haven't ever left negative feedback. If I was honest about some of the scammers out there then they would certainly give me bad feedback in retaliation.

I just don't leave any feedback (on bad sellers), but then they don't give me any positive feedback (for example if I immediately pay via paypal and they deliver a piece of crap item 3 weeks later).

[bcm119]

I had a similar experience several years ago with a CSI from eBay. It had a slight ripple in the top tube, and was out of alignment- it had obviously been in a wreck. I was able to get the guy's phone number and we had several lengthy conversations, and he finally agreed to take it back and return my money. He was an occasional poster here, mostly in the classifieds, and while I wouldn't buy from him again, he was reasonable enough to give me my $ back. But it took a lot of time and effort on my part.

Try to get his phone # and talk to him, you will know immediately if you are dealing with a royal a-hole or a reasonable person. If he's the slightest bit reasonable you may be able to work it out.

[Lincoln]

Dave saved me from having to type a longer post :beer:

[Ken Robb]

I "won" a bike that wasn't as nice as described--no dents or big problems but lots of wornout parts. I contacted the seller who said it waqs her dad's bike and she just did the ebay sale for him. I then talked to dad and he said he hadn't really thought about or looked at the bike since he got his new one and that it had been shipped from his LBS. We agreed to a partial refund to help replace the wornout stuff and we were both happy. I didn't expect brand new so a partial offset was fair both ways.
FWIW, the guy's LBS must have imbeciles for mechanics because NOTHING was adjusted correctly and the owner said he bought and had the bike serviced at the same store.

I too would assume that the seller will want to make it right. Heck, he may not have known that someone else had concealed the dent if he's not the original owner. ;)

[Peter P.]

Geez; $420 for the frame. It looks pretty and it's still straight?

While I wholeheartedly agree with the other posters about seeking to claim some compensation or an outright refund on your purchase, I also see it another way.

For the money, even if you replaced the top tube and repainted the frame, you'd be FAR ahead of the game. And typically, the dents like you described don't result in frame failure. The more you ride it, the more you will have gotten your money out of it which will improve on the bargain you received. At such time as the tube does/might fail, then you can have it and the other defect corrected, knowing you got the full mileage out of the frame before failure.

I guess it seems the best course would be to contact the seller and try to negotiate a rebate if you still want to keep the frame-he probably doesn't want to let go of the money he's just made so he'd be smart if he sent you a few bucks back. Next step if that doesn't work is to demand a refund, and bite the bullet that you're giving up what could be a beautiful buy. If the seller doesn't coddle to this, then go to e-Bay for recourse or just post negative comments about him. Forget about any possible like-minded posting by the seller; you may have to endure some false negative publicity yourself to keep the lid on this guy. Just advise him in advance that this is your plan and ignore any threats; he might just cave in.

Then after you post negatively about him, go enjoy your frame until it needs repair or you decide to refurbish it. I think if you follow my course of action in order you'll be happiest.

[shinomaster]

I dented the top tube on my paramount in a similar crash. It was a major minor dent. It didn't affect the ride of the bike, or the structural integrity of the frame. It just looked dented. If I were you, I would keep it and send it to a good, but inexpensive painter to get the dent filled with fiberglass, and a single coat of paint and some new decals. You could do it for $200 and have a beautiful new frame.
Or, go ape **** and call the ****er on his effed up ebay lies and send the pos back.

[MartyE]

my pog track frame has a similiar dent, and I opted for the
bondo filler and repaint. Other than the fact that I know
it's there it affects the ride and look of the frame exactly zilch.
BTW my paintjob with highlights etc. was less than $350.
While your frame is a Serotta, there are other painters out there.

marty

[GoJavs]

There are plenty of deceivers out there on e-bay. I've had two more of my bike purchases show up with undeclared dents. Thankfully, they weren't huge, but it does make really makes me weary of doing anymore frame buying on ebay...

[bobscott]

This are on the path to resolution here. I followed the general (and very good) advice of the group and contacted the seller stating that this was other than what was listed and that I did not want to contact eBay and give negative feeback. I also stated what resolutions I would accept. THe seller really stepped up to the plate, apologised fot the problem and is going to send me return shipping and a complete refund.
I have decided to let this one go but will go on the search for another CSI. If anyone out there has a 62 cm CSI they want to get rid of please shoot me a line. I really like so many things about them.
Once again let me thank everyone for their input on this, it was immeasurably helpful.
Yours,
bobscott

[bobscott]

Things are on the path to resolution here. I followed the general (and very good) advice of the group and contacted the seller stating that this was other than what was listed and that I did not want to contact eBay and give negative feeback. I also stated what resolutions I would accept. THe seller really stepped up to the plate, apologised fot the problem and is going to send me return shipping and a complete refund.
I have decided to let this one go but will go on the search for another CSI. If anyone out there has a 62 cm CSI they want to get rid of please shoot me a line. I really like so many things about them.
Once again let me thank everyone for their input on this, it was immeasurably helpful.
Yours,
bobscott

[alancw3]

glad to hear the outcome. i have found,with my dealings on ebay, that sellers are willing to do the right thing to resolve a problem. thankfully the problems are few and far between! ps. i think you made the right decision to return the bike.