USA cycling coaching program?

[Karin Kirk]

Have any of you had experience going through the USA cycling coaching program? I do a bit of coaching for our local team, and I’m considering doing the level 3 (entry level) coaching certification to see what the program is like. Anyone else done this? Is it worth it? Will it make me awesome?

thanks!
-Karin

[Tom Byrnes]

. . . . Will it make me awesome?

-Karin

Karin,

Debbie and I already think you are.

:)

Best to you and Dave.

Tom

[kgrooney]

Have any of you had experience going through the USA cycling coaching program? I do a bit of coaching for our local team, and I’m considering doing the level 3 (entry level) coaching certification to see what the program is like. Anyone else done this? Is it worth it? Will it make me awesome?

thanks!
-Karin


Several years back I completed the Expert level certification. I understand the categories have since been re-named. The info presented at two day session was interesting, but I experienced no support of any kind from USAC and never renewed.
I would think if you wanted to advertise to solicit busniness, perhaps you should consider. Athletes looking for a coach, look for certifications of this type.

[stevep]

i agree with kgrooney.
if you hope to coach and get paid you might want the certfication.
if you want to help riders get better buy a few books and read them thoroughly and understand the general theory. there are a few excellent training books out there.
i did it years ago... a little useful but i never reupped cause i got sick of sending extra money in for certification when i was doing the job for free.

[nm87710]

IMO not worth the cost unless you're eventually trying to make a business out of it. Biggest benefit is being listed online w/USAC which may help solicit customers and USAC offers coaching insurance option for something like $100 per year. I've got the L3 manual/test they used a few years ago(doubt it's changed) and would be glad to pass it on if you want to check it out. FWIW better coaching material is available online and in the training book de jour.

[Karin Kirk]

Yeah, I am only coaching as a volunteer and I doubt I'll be making a business out of it. Still, I like the idea of getting the USCF insurance coverage anyway, just in case!

So... what are some of your favorite coaching books de jour?

[Fat Robert]

take an exercise physiology course at a community college

do a lot of races and learn from your mistakes while you watch others

talk to a lot of experienced, good racers

then you'll know what you need to know

the uscf program is crap

[nm87710]

Karin, Don't get me wrong about the USCF L3 manual...there are some useful items in it especially when working with people new to the sport...us old guys sometimes take things like pedalling while taking a drink or rubbin elbows as a given :)

My de jour?? Any of the books by Arnie Baker http://www.arniebakercycling.com/ are top notch. Arnie is a medical doctor, multi-national champion, active racer and coach(he only coaches a handful of riders each year). His books/articles are very thorough in ALL aspects of cycling training. I'd recommend Bicycling Medicine & Smart Cycling by Arnie. Much better than CTS stuff. Also, FWIW most coaches focus all their attention on the fitness part training( intervals, sprints, raising VO2, endurance, periodization, etc, etc) and don't address the cerebral items like race dynamics, tactics, positioning, course analysis, competition assessment, field sprinting, etc. which usually plays a huge role in the outcome of a race. Arnie covers some of those items in his books but also Thomas Prehn has a good book Racing Tactics for Cyclists. Lot's of riders are physically strong enough to win but don't do the right things at the right time to make it happen - they need coaching.

IMO the best coaches are the ones watching or riding/racing with their students. Maybe it's just me but in 25+ years of racing (and coaching a few along the way) I've never understood how somebody can "coach" a rider they never see on a bike...

That's my 2 pesos and I'll step off my soap box now,
John

P.S. Hope they get those fires around you under control soon!

[Karin Kirk]

Very thoughtful response, thanks!

(And also to Tom Byrnes - you are too kind, and we think YOU guys are awesome too!)

I didn't expect to hear raves about the USCF program, nor do I expect it will be all that great - but mostly I am curious about others' thoughts. I agree with you that most of the stuff out there is all about power training, peak training, threshold training, etc. I, for one, could stand to learn more about that, especially as it relates to a variety of types of riders. My favorite things to teach on the bike are all the other parts - the mental approach, tactics, positioning, timing, technique, and so on. I agree that these aspects are crucial and besides, they happen to be very fun to teach.

And by all means, this sort of coaching happens on the bike! In fact, this year's coaching gig has been a big motivator to stay fit this season because you can't very well coach the tactical stuff if you can't mix it up with the group.

Thanks for the book recommendations, I will check those out.

Oh, and the smoke has lifted a bit today and the air quality has gone from 'very unhealthy' to 'unhealthy for sensitive groups.' Which means that club rides are no longer cancelled. Phew!

[Ti Designs]

A few years back the Harvard team got a grant from the USACDF, which also meant that we needed certified coaches. John Allis had a coaching licence years ago but wasn't interested in sending USA Cycling a check every year - after 25 years he really doesn't need the piece of paper to tell him that he knows how to coach. I also wasn't interested in the certification, it's not worth anything to me - racing, coaching and lots of time working out problems with riders has been a much better teacher. We wound up sending two other people who were certified.


most coaches focus all their attention on the fitness part training( intervals, sprints, raising VO2, endurance, periodization, etc, etc) and don't address the cerebral items like race dynamics, tactics, positioning, course analysis, competition assessment, field sprinting, etc. which usually plays a huge role in the outcome of a race.


They can't teach racing experiance in a class. My first suggestion for being a good coach is to first have a racing career. It need not be at the highest levels, but you have to understand the dynamics of racing.

What most coaching classes teach in terms of fitness is what I call cook book coaching - run the same training scenario for every rider. That's a great way to turn talent into average riders. Learn to spot talents, learn how to work on strengths. The two riders I worked with this year were as different as they get. Lily is a pure climber, Eve a pure sprinter, their programs were also very different. In the gym Lily was doing long sets (50+ reps) at lower weights while Eve was pushing massive weights. On the road Lily had a constant diet of hill tempo, Eve was doing speedwork. Even Lily's intervals were up short, steep hills while Eve's intervals were flat speed. These are things dictated by the rider, their goals and their natural strengths.


IMO the best coaches are the ones watching or riding/racing with their students. Maybe it's just me but in 25+ years of racing (and coaching a few along the way) I've never understood how somebody can "coach" a rider they never see on a bike...

Being there is half the battle. One of the reasons I have so little respect for the certified coaches is that they never show up - what good is the certification? Maybe they should add a chapter in the manual about setting the alarm clock... Coaching only works if your riders have respect for you and trust you. In coaching rides respect and trust are established by always being there. That trust goes a long way in teaching your riders and getting them past problems in racing. I've had riders who wouldn't push it into the red to get across a gap, and they would get dropped as a result. On training rides I told them to give it 100% to get on, worry about staying on once you get there (the story of my life as a racer). They did it because of the trust they have in me (the fools!). It all starts with being there.


And by all means, this sort of coaching happens on the bike! In fact, this year's coaching gig has been a big motivator to stay fit this season because you can't very well coach the tactical stuff if you can't mix it up with the group.

Yup, the best way to learn something is by teaching it. You may also find out that an intelegent coaching schedule can be the best training program. I take my easy days and hang back with the slower riders, on faster days I work with the riders who have a hard time keeping up. We often come to an agreement, I'll keep them in on the hills (sometimes it comes down to pushing them up the hills), but they need to stay right on my wheel on the flats and downhills. When the group breaks up I'm often called on to bridge up the the next group to keep the communication in the group working ('cause the people pushing the pace can't look behind them - why is that?). That's my interval work...

The best way to get into coaching is simply to jump in with both feet. Find a rider who wants to work with you and start the process of figuring out what they need. You'll make mistakes, but the point of being there all the time is that you can correct those mistakes. Having someone else's racing career in your hands is a lot of responsibility - don't take it lightly. If they ask a question you can't answer (and they will), you need to fall back on other coaches or do some reading.

Lastly, don't stick to just cycling based books. In an effort to better understand my riders and why they do what they do, I've read books on coaching basketball, tennis and running. Coaching isn't all or nothing, you learn what other people do, you take what you think is good and leave the rest. Each coach has opinions of what works and why, the more opinions you understand the better off you are ('cept for my opinion, which counts for absolutly nothing)

[Karin Kirk]

Great insights – thanks for sharing! And I agree wholeheartedly.

Of course in order to coach racing one needs to have their fair share (or more) of racing experience. I raced for a dozen or so years and made plenty of mistakes from which to learn. Toward the end of that period some teammates and I began to run weekly rides, both off road and on, in order to cultivate more women’s participation in our area. By the time Dave and I moved from upstate NY our women’s rides were well attended and load of fun.

When we moved to MT, all of that stopped, of course, and I took a 5 year hiatus from cycling. In the meantime I spent all my athletic energy working my way through the tiers of certification in ski instruction. I really enjoy the structured program for snowsports instructors, and as you pointed out, much of that information translates to other sports. I’m still hopelessly addicted to ski teaching and am very much involved in the sport.

Last year I got back in the saddle and rediscovered how damn fun riding is. Over the winter I agreed to help coach the women’s side of our local team. I envisioned it would be similar to the coaching I had done in NY but this group is a bit more serious and motivated. So far it’s been terrific and has exceeded all of my expectations for how much fun it is and how fast everyone would improve. We’ve had some notable successes and it’s been hugely rewarding! I couldn’t ask for a better way to get re-involved with cycling. The hitch now is that overall popularity of the program is growing fast, some of the guys want coaching too, and now I’m wondering what I can do to make sure I can develop my own knowledge and skills to keep pace with what the team is looking for.

Make sense? So that is why I’m checking out the USCF program, reading lots, and picking your brains! All the advice is thoroughly appreciated, thanks!

[Smiley]

Karin Kirk , never met you but heard many stories when I was with Serotta that you were and probably still are a KICK arse Mountain Biker . What is all the road talk about anyway . My source of this is Stewy Schaffer aka Monty Hall my sales manager at the time, true or false :)

[Karin Kirk]

Karin Kirk , never met you but heard many stories when I was with Serotta that you were and probably still are a KICK arse Mountain Biker . What is all the road talk about anyway . My source of this is Stewy Schaffer aka Monty Hall my sales manager at the time, true or false :)

Well, I've heard my share of Smiley stories too (good ones, don't worry)!

True enough that I was an avid mtb racer, especially toward the latter part of my time in Saratoga. In fact, I met the charming Mr. Kirk at a mountain bike race at Skidmore College.

But my original roots in cycling were on the pavement, and for the moment that's where I'm putting in my miles. Who knows, after a few more close calls with speeding pickup trucks, I may head back to the woods again.

[Ti Designs]

my original roots in cycling were on the pavement, and for the moment that's where I'm putting in my miles. Who knows, after a few more close calls with speeding pickup trucks, I may head back to the woods again.

I've had too many close calls with speeding pickup trucks in the woods...

[nm87710]

Very thoughtful response, thanks!
Oh, and the smoke has lifted a bit today and the air quality has gone from 'very unhealthy' to 'unhealthy for sensitive groups.' Which means that club rides are no longer cancelled. Phew!

Glad to see you can get out again and enjoy that beautiful area. IMO nice place to train around Bozeman with the plenty of flats or climbing available. You are lucky to have such a beautiful area to live/ride. I raced up there a few years ago at the EcoCenter NRC race in Missoula and thoroughly enjoyed it - well except racing in rain for 5 days, all the climbing, snowing at summit tops and the wind :) Great local racing scene in MT with lots of friendly folks to have a beer with when it's all over. Hope to do another race up there someday.

Cheers!

[weisan]

Ti-Master-pal, what an excellent sharing of your personal coaching experience. I don't have any desire to race at the moment, but I almost wish that I am on your team to enjoy the benefits of your mentoring.

weisan

[Too Tall]

Sorry, a bit late to add a few words. I learned many yrs. ago that "the piece of paper" which may stand between your ability to cross barriers...or not...is well worth the price of admission if it is important to reach an audience whom otherwise would not or can not work with you as a coach.

I'm taking the slow steady approach only because I've been coaching for some yrs. now and only require the basic paper to maintain credibility and insurance requirements yada yada AND saying that should in no way malign USCFs program in my mind. Good things happen because of the program(s) no doubt about that.

The other coaches I've chatted with gripe about the usual BS such as having to sit in a class listening to someone teach them who has alot less experience than themselves. My answer...suck it up...get the certification and move on.

Hope that helps you decide.

[Tom]

is that sometimes they know something different from you. I agree with Too Tall, if that's what it takes to get the cert that allows you to reach an audience you can help then you should do it because in all the stuff they say that might be exactly what you already know they might drop in something you never thought of completely by accident (how dat for a sentence? Yow... the writers out there are wincing with pain And no, I am not going to edit it. Pound salt). I work with people like that. Some days they are dumb as bricks but then they say one thing that saves my butt. The key is sorting all the chaff to find the single grain of wheat.