Is this frame ruined?

[icepick_trotsky]

Aluminum alignment question. Building up this Gaulzetti for the first time and put the rear wheel in. The alignment is off. Waaaaay off. Can this be fixed on an AL frame, or is it toasted? The wheel is in the dropouts straight in the pic below.

Honestly I've had so many problems with this frame already that I hate it before I've even ridden it.

http://i.imgur.com/WVyrEtOh.jpg

[Cicli]

Flip the wheel over and recheck.

[dustyrider]

What does the dropout look like? Drive side picture!

[icepick_trotsky]

Wheel is dead true. Fits the same way forwards and backwards. Dropouts:

http://i.imgur.com/bSIzxYrl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/IFkjIoNl.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/5TNUPwdl.jpg

[old fat man]

That was supposed to go into the recycle box, not the shipping box

[Seott-e]

The pics are a bit dark, but make sure the Der hanger is positioned/seated in the dropout correctly.

[bewheels]

Gaulzetti is known for building fantastic frames. There must be more to this story...

Where did the frame come from?
What's its history?

[Peter P.]

Perform the "string test.

Tie a string around the drive side dropout. Run the string past the seat tube, around the head tube, pull it taut, and tie it to the non-drive side dropout.

Measure the distance between the string and the edge of the seat tube, measuring both sides. This test will tell you if the rear triangle as a whole is skewed to one side.

I don't know what's considered out of tolerance, but I imagine 3mm or more is no good. And you can't cold set an aluminum frame.

[icepick_trotsky]

Na

[dustyrider]

The pics are a bit dark, but make sure the Der hanger is positioned/seated in the dropout correctly.

This is one of the places where I was going with the dropout pics.
Sure is hard to diagnose something like this without being able to handle and ogle everything. Fingers crossed it isn't what it looks like...

[charliedid]

Smooshed in shipping?

Professional bike should can help determine what's wrong. Hard to do via the internet.

Sorry for your bummer

[Hindmost]

The pics are a bit dark, but make sure the Der hanger is positioned/seated in the dropout correctly.

From halfway across the country it looks like something's going on with the derailleur hanger.

[David Kirk]

Is it also off between the c-stays to the same degree?

dave

[FlashUNC]

Can't tell from the photo if its a replaceable hanger. It in square?

Otherwise, hanger get bunged up in shipping somehow?

[Doug Fattic]

Maybe. Take the skewer out of the hub and place the wheel in the dropout. Look carefully to see if the axle fits all the way into the dropout slot There may be something (like extra paint or a burr) keeping it from fitting all the way in.

It is also possible that the drive side seat stay is too long and the frame was not made properly. If you have no option to return the frame, the dropout can be carefully filed to make the slot longer. This will move the wheel by the seat stays to the center. However that will place the wheel off center by the chain stays since the slot is not perfectly vertical but rather angles back just a bit.

[8aaron8]

Maybe. Take the skewer out of the hub and place the wheel in the dropout. Look carefully to see if the axle fits all the way into the dropout slot There may be something (like extra paint or a burr) keeping it from fitting all the way in.

It is also possible that the drive side seat stay is too long and the frame was not made properly. If you have no option to return the frame, the dropout can be carefully filed to make the slot longer. This will move the wheel by the seat stays to the center. However that will place the wheel off center by the chain stays since the slot is not perfectly vertical but rather angles back just a bit.


This seems about right, it looks as though the drive side dropout sits lower than the non-drive side causing the wheel to be angled in that direction. Doesn't seem right that it would leave the builder in that condition, there must be a story behind this.

[bewheels]

This seems about right, it looks as though the drive side dropout sits lower than the non-drive side causing the wheel to be angled in that direction. Doesn't seem right that it would leave the builder in that condition, there must be a story behind this.

Again - The builder is a high quality builder and at this point no one knows the back story about this frame.
Has it been owned by 5 other people who collectively put 800,000 miles with 7 major crashes on it?
Has it been "fixed" before for some other reason?

I understand the owner and OP of this thread is frustrated but out of respect for the for the builder, the course of action is communication between the owner and the builder.

I am sure sure any of the builders who frequent this forum would appreciate that things would be handled this way. Rather than speculation around what they should or should not have done based on some photos shared on the internet.

[oldpotatoe]

Again - The builder is a high quality builder and at this point no one knows the back story about this frame.
Has it been owned by 5 other people who collectively put 800,000 miles with 7 major crashes on it?
Has it been "fixed" before for some other reason?

I understand the owner and OP of this thread is frustrated but out of respect for the for the builder, the course of action is communication between the owner and the builder.

I am sure sure any of the builders who frequent this forum would appreciate that things would be handled this way. Rather than speculation around what they should or should not have done based on some photos shared on the internet.

Yup, the back story on this frame needs to be told. This builder has produced a scad of nice, aligned, frames..the suspense is killing me...:confused:

[8aaron8]

Again - The builder is a high quality builder and at this point no one knows the back story about this frame.
Has it been owned by 5 other people who collectively put 800,000 miles with 7 major crashes on it?
Has it been "fixed" before for some other reason?

I understand the owner and OP of this thread is frustrated but out of respect for the for the builder, the course of action is communication between the owner and the builder.

I am sure sure any of the builders who frequent this forum would appreciate that things would be handled this way. Rather than speculation around what they should or should not have done based on some photos shared on the internet.


I wasn't trying to insinuate anything regarding the builder, and if my post came off that way I do apologize. My last sentence was meant to question the history/mystery of the frame. I'm sure at some point this frame was nice and straight, but the mystery of what happened to it is intriguing.

[David Kirk]

I'll bump my question.....is the wheel off center between both the s-stays and c-stays?

If the wheel is off just between the s-stays but pretty good between the c-stays my bet is on and improper derailleur hanger pushing the axle down and the causing the wheel to tilt to the driveside.

If it is off similarly between the s-stays and c-stays then my money is on the rear of the frame being pushed off to the side. A simple 5 minute strong test would give a good idea if this is the case. If you aren't sure how to do this let me know and I can post a photo that should show of it's done.

dave

[sandyrs]

Based on the welds at the dropouts I think this is an older frame. I'm not sure if Craig is even really doing Gaulzetti anymore, since I never see anything from the brand's social media and nobody is posting new ones from the latest generation on any forums aside from mine and a couple road bikes. Of course, that's far from conclusive.

[R3awak3n]

not sure why we are talking about the builder. this was bought from another forum member so either it was problematic before it was sold or it got damaged in shipping (probably the later, don't think anyone would sell a frame like that).

[sandyrs]

not sure why we are talking about the builder. this was bought from another forum member so either it was problematic before it was sold or it got damaged in shipping (probably the later, don't think anyone would sell a frame like that).

That wasn't clear from the original post- I also mentioned that the frame looked older as supporting evidence for the theory posited above that the frame was, as we now know, used :)

[William]

Ice can clear up the confusion, but if you search the classifieds it "looks" like he picked this up from another member.






William

[shovelhd]

I'll bump my question.....is the wheel off center between both the s-stays and c-stays?

If the wheel is off just between the s-stays but pretty good between the c-stays my bet is on and improper derailleur hanger pushing the axle down and the causing the wheel to tilt to the driveside.

If it is off similarly between the s-stays and c-stays then my money is on the rear of the frame being pushed off to the side. A simple 5 minute strong test would give a good idea if this is the case. If you aren't sure how to do this let me know and I can post a photo that should show of it's done.

dave

I'm with Dave. I'd be surprised if the frame was tweaked that much. More likely the previous owner bent the original derailleur hanger and the replacement was installed without testing fit. It might not be the proper hanger.

I must have missed something, but why aren't these questions going to the previous owner?

[icepick_trotsky]

Update--

Thanks for all the feedback. It appears the derailleur hanger bolt I was using did not fit the hanger correctly. New bolt on its way from eBay. Seated better now, hopefully will fit even straighter with a better fitting set of hardware.

For the above question, wheel was seated between the chainstays evenly, but that may be a moot point now.

Just to clear the air, I never meant to cast aspersions on either the builder or the seller. I was worried the frame had been damaged by Fedex or the powdercoat guy, but looks like user error on my end.

http://i.imgur.com/8cqub3Fl.jpg

:banana:

[Pegoready]

The frame originally looked like this, so obviously the wheel sat in smooth at one point and obviously it's been painted since. Paint in the dropouts? Removed RD hanger during painting and used a different bolt to seat it? You can't tweak an aluminum frame that badly and not have some visible damage.

EDIT: looks like you posted before I saw your response. Glad it is cleared up! :hello: I know that era Gaulzetti used a weird size bolt.

[David Kirk]

Cool - now we are getting somewhere.

Have you tried fitting it without the hanger in place? How does it look like that?

dave

Update--

Thanks for all the feedback. It appears the derailleur hanger bolt I was using did not fit the hanger correctly. New bolt on its way from eBay. Seated better now, hopefully will fit even straighter with a better fitting set of hardware.

For the above question, wheel was seated between the chainstays evenly, but that may be a moot point now.

Just to clear the air, I never meant to cast aspersions on either the builder or the seller. I was worried the frame had been damaged by Fedex or the powdercoat guy, but looks like user error on my end.

http://i.imgur.com/8cqub3Fl.jpg

:banana:

[Timvan]

nothing the "huffy tool" cant fix

[Doug Fattic]

Just as a data point, it takes very little to move a wheel significantly off of center. For example if a power coating drip takes up 1 mm in the slot (and keeps the axle from going all the way in) that will move the wheel off center almost 3 mm by the stays. The ratio variation between the hub width and tire radius is what causes this difference.

[dddd]

I recently bought a used bike (Colnago CX-Zero) which had a broken special derailer hanger that no one sold locally and which cost about $50, and only through Colnago's online sellers.

I had to fabricate a new hanger using one of a pretty good assortment of odd hangers that I had around, and it occurred to me that the axle must still be able to seat fully into the dropout slot in the frame in order for the wheel to sit straight.
All told, with having to Dremel, drill and tap with needed accuracy, probably two hours "wasted", but I was able to ride the bike the next morning. :banana:

[dustyrider]

Update--

Thanks for all the feedback. It appears the derailleur hanger bolt I was using did not fit the hanger correctly.

:banana:

Phew!:hello:

[ultraman6970]

If the RD hanger was tad off at the drop out and the bolts were ok, just file the hanger to fit the drop out?

[icepick_trotsky]

UPDATE:

I had a local framebuilder take a look. He milled down the hanger to seat correctly and to accept a stronger bolt, as he broke one and I broke one of the first size. Wheel looks great now. Full pics in the gallery.

http://i.imgur.com/Hj45C0fh.jpg

[Peter P.]

Tip: Have that framebuilder modify another one or two derailleur hangers. Since yours are now non-standard, finding replacements will be impossible. Do it while the work is fresh in the mind of the framebuilder.

[Louis]

Nice stick stand! :)

[Gabuyo]

I had a spooky skeletor that had this alignment problem and to my knowledge it seemed like the tolerances were just not very tight when it was initially put together. I just rode it with a cocked brake caliper and had my wheel slightly re-dished, no problems.

[pbarry]

Someone or two posted a suggestion about the D hanger earlier on. They deserve a shout-out. ;)
Glad you got it figured out.

Update--

Thanks for all the feedback. It appears the derailleur hanger bolt I was using did not fit the hanger correctly. New bolt on its way from eBay. Seated better now, hopefully will fit even straighter with a better fitting set of hardware.

For the above question, wheel was seated between the chainstays evenly, but that may be a moot point now.

Just to clear the air, I never meant to cast aspersions on either the builder or the seller. I was worried the frame had been damaged by Fedex or the powdercoat guy, but looks like user error on my end.

http://i.imgur.com/8cqub3Fl.jpg

:banana: