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Keith A
08-09-2017, 03:30 PM
This is just crazy...this guy is riding on the edge at the Grand Canyon. I can't begin to imagine even considering this.

Apologizes in advance, I could only find this video on Facebook.
https://www.facebook.com/vittoriobrumotti/videos/1862673420415242/?hc_ref=ARSRtQyeyRBxMyKqipY34i0yeQfcnb-OU9Fpcd3NKWuuaLVcrMhsaaMl3mx-zh6FqW8&pnref=story

Keith A
08-09-2017, 03:33 PM
After watching this again, I'm not sure I'd would even hike across this :eek:

monkeybanana86
08-09-2017, 03:34 PM
in the drops..

p nut
08-09-2017, 03:34 PM
That's some nutty stuff. If you're familiar with Gooseberry Mesa, parts of the trail go right up against the edge of steep cliffs. I get queasy enough just from that. Couldn't imagine riding in that terrain, much less on a road bike.

monkeybanana86
08-09-2017, 03:34 PM
After watching this again, I'm not sure I'd would even hike across this :eek:

Me neither! Sweaty palms just watching.

akelman
08-09-2017, 03:39 PM
Dangerous, selfish, stupid, and almost certainly illegal.

goonster
08-09-2017, 03:42 PM
This is an interesting book:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51WT288GZFL.jpg

eBAUMANN
08-09-2017, 03:43 PM
nope

Gummee
08-09-2017, 03:52 PM
There's a great trail along the North Rim that's a hoot to ride, but it doesn't get *that* close to the edge

Highly recommend 2 things: stay away from the South Rim and bring a bike and ride the North Rim

M

dustyrider
08-09-2017, 04:00 PM
Reminds me of MacAskill (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xQ_IQS3VKjA)! :(

FastforaSlowGuy
08-09-2017, 04:59 PM
I'm sorry, but this is not cool. It's stupid. It reminds me of that kid who was doing increasingly dangerous stunts in an effort to become a YouTube star. His last (and fatal) stunt was having his girlfriend shoot him in the chest through a book, which he thought would stop the bullet. It didn't, of course, and lives were ruined. We'd be having a very different conversation about this cyclist if the video was of him hitting a little patch of sand and sliding off into oblivion.

fiamme red
08-09-2017, 05:08 PM
More insane stuff here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMmU9EykS0m5okYVU3ceslw.

Keith A
08-09-2017, 05:23 PM
I'm sorry, but this is not cool. It's stupid. It reminds me of that kid who was doing increasingly dangerous stunts in an effort to become a YouTube star. His last (and fatal) stunt was having his girlfriend shoot him in the chest through a book, which he thought would stop the bullet. It didn't, of course, and lives were ruined. We'd be having a very different conversation about this cyclist if the video was of him hitting a little patch of sand and sliding off into oblivion.Point well taken.

fiamme red
08-09-2017, 05:38 PM
Dangerous, selfish, stupid, and almost certainly illegal.Those words all apply to Philippe Petit's high-wire walk between the Twin Towers in 1974, except that his act was certainly illegal. And yet it was glorified in The Walk a few years ago by Robert Zemeckis.

I don't understand why Brumotti chooses to risk his life all the time for his stunts, but I don't see why he should be condemned for them any more than one of the Flying Wallendas for their high-wire acts, e.g., https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX_jFK9Zf5k. He knows the risks.

Dead Man
08-09-2017, 06:06 PM
Dangerous, selfish, stupid, and almost certainly illegal.

Gonna go out on a limb and guess you're not much a risk-taker, eh?

d_douglas
08-09-2017, 06:40 PM
Not to be a sourpuss, but I get that this guy is skilled at what he does, however, I never see him RIDING his bike - simply hopping around in stupidly dangerous places. I would love to see him on an MTB trail (as I am sure he's very skilled there as well) because riding a road bike for trials is simply a gimmick to get youtube hits, in my opinion.

I went to university in Vancouver when Ryan Leech was at his peak - riding all kinds of crazy urban stunts. The impressive part about him (google him) is that he is also a highly accomplished trail rider on the North Shore where stalling on a rock face comes in handy quite often.

Anyhoo, I'd be curious to see Brumotti ride his bike more than 30ft before performing a 'trick'!>??

mavic1010
08-09-2017, 07:02 PM
Nice to see he's at least wearing a helmet??!

dustyrider
08-09-2017, 07:04 PM
This guy must be certifiable. Semenuk (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=74fhD_DNGQY)!

Cicli
08-09-2017, 07:15 PM
Nice to see he's at least wearing a helmet??!

Just my thoughts.

Awesome!

d_douglas
08-09-2017, 07:30 PM
Semenuk is a very skilled rider. I wonder how his trials skillz are?

After posting about Brumotti not showing his MTB skills, I actually scanned Youtube and there is a clip of him riding an MTB, but it was all the same trialsy stuff - balancing on railings, hopping up to precipitous drop-offs, etc.

He certainly has the risk-chip removed from his brain. And despite his skill, yes, it is still an inherently risky activity no matter how good you are at it.

Peter P.
08-09-2017, 07:58 PM
How does Brumotti manage to even walk?! :D

fiamme red
08-09-2017, 09:35 PM
Not to be a sourpuss, but I get that this guy is skilled at what he does, however, I never see him RIDING his bike - simply hopping around in stupidly dangerous places. I would love to see him on an MTB trail (as I am sure he's very skilled there as well) because riding a road bike for trials is simply a gimmick to get youtube hits, in my opinion.

I went to university in Vancouver when Ryan Leech was at his peak - riding all kinds of crazy urban stunts. The impressive part about him (google him) is that he is also a highly accomplished trail rider on the North Shore where stalling on a rock face comes in handy quite often.

Anyhoo, I'd be curious to see Brumotti ride his bike more than 30ft before performing a 'trick'!>??Does this count?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-05EFHTRShY

Polyglot
08-09-2017, 10:04 PM
Vittorio Brumotti is a big TV star in Italy. He was formerly the significant other of Giorgio Armani's niece and is now together with a popular actress.

Brumotti's specialty is trials riding, a very particular discipline, that has next to nothing to do with MTB. Skilled trials riders tend to be much better able to make the jump to MTB or road riding than those skilled in road or MTB being able to make the jump to trials

charliedid
08-09-2017, 10:07 PM
Dangerous, selfish, stupid, and almost certainly illegal.

Agreed

I'll never understand.

d_douglas
08-09-2017, 10:55 PM
Does this count?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-05EFHTRShY

No, it doesn't. A few pedal strokes here and there.

BlueFly
08-10-2017, 10:44 AM
Agreed

I'll never understand.

The thing I will never understand is the what if? I am all for self-confidence and showing off skills but.....

If something did happen and you are conscious afterward - I refuse /don't want any of my tax dollars going towards supporting a choice that does not benefit the welfare of others. To me this does not benefit anyone other than to encourage others to do more stupid and disrespectful stuff.

Not trying to take this thread off the rails either. I just don't get it.

FastforaSlowGuy
08-10-2017, 10:57 AM
No, it doesn't. A few pedal strokes here and there.

Yep. He shows he can hop a bike uphill. Trials riding is to MTB like parcour is to running.

MattTuck
08-10-2017, 11:04 AM
More power to him, as long as he doesn't set up a GoFundMe page in the event he gets injured.

dunnenrb
08-11-2017, 12:11 PM
I'm training to move to strictly bunny hopping everywhere and ditching riding and hiking completely.

bikenut
08-11-2017, 12:42 PM
Dangerous, selfish, stupid, and almost certainly illegal.
Only a matter of time.

54ny77
08-11-2017, 01:42 PM
That's kind of like saying sure, Ayrton Senna is a great driver, but can the man ride a horse?

:D

Trials riding is its own specialty, it's so fun to watch. Hans Rey was one of the first big stars of the genre.

Watching Hans Rey bunny hop up & over park benches and cars used to be cool stuff. "How did he do that???!!!" Then he got bigger and did more adventurous stuff as well.

This crazy stuff Brumotti does.....it's just plain crazy. But, that's his schtick.

That said, I bet the Brumotti goes down hills very fast as well. :beer:

Not to be a sourpuss, but I get that this guy is skilled at what he does, however, I never see him RIDING his bike - simply hopping around in stupidly dangerous places. I would love to see him on an MTB trail (as I am sure he's very skilled there as well) because riding a road bike for trials is simply a gimmick to get youtube hits, in my opinion.

I went to university in Vancouver when Ryan Leech was at his peak - riding all kinds of crazy urban stunts. The impressive part about him (google him) is that he is also a highly accomplished trail rider on the North Shore where stalling on a rock face comes in handy quite often.

Anyhoo, I'd be curious to see Brumotti ride his bike more than 30ft before performing a 'trick'!>??

Dead Man
08-11-2017, 03:41 PM
Only a matter of time.

No... odds are overwhelmingly that dangerous sports won't kill their participants. As someone who engages in a couple of "high-risk" hobbies, I've known hundreds of people who accept risk, use their experience and skill to mitigate the risk, and live long very healthy lives.

I've also known a handful of people who have met their end on the rock and in the mountains. Sometimes people die... for those who pursue that high, the reward is worth the risk. It's nearly killed me several times, but I seem to have an unusually high risk threshold and a taste for fear - or at least the elation of battling through fear and conquering it ... I keep going up. Maybe it will take me someday - so what? I've seen and done some incredible **** in reward for my willingness to accept challenge and risk, and have no delusions about my own mortality. When I go, I HOPE it's doing the things I love.

High risk activities are high risk because the consequences are potentially very severe, not necessarily because those worst-case consequences are LIKELY; Risky sports are all about risk assessment and mitigation - That would be poor risk assessment. I'm still extremely confident that an alpinist has a statistically longer and healthier life expectancy than the average American, due to the joy and fitness you get from it. Not to mention what enduring and overcoming huge physical undertakings and temporary stress teaches you about yourself and what you're capable of - those lessons extend into everyday life.

cloudguy
08-11-2017, 05:12 PM
That bunny-hopping idiot is not mitigating his risk in any way and will likely die from that fact at some point in the future. Somebody will then have to climb down and scrape his bloodied carcass into a bag and haul it back up, which will likely make their day a big fat bummer.

choke
08-11-2017, 05:32 PM
Geez, the self-righteousness is strong on the forum lately. :(

I love Brumotti's vids. IMO the world is a more fun place because of people like him.

fiamme red
08-11-2017, 05:39 PM
He did the Grand Canyon stunts on a replacement bike, because Alitalia destroyed his on his way to the US. Then on his return to Italy, Alitalia destroyed that bike too. :eek:

http://road.cc/content/news/227526-video-baggage-handlers-destroy-vittorio-brumottis-bike-way-usa-and-replacement

Dead Man
08-11-2017, 07:48 PM
That bunny-hopping idiot is not mitigating his risk in any way and will likely die from that fact at some point in the future. Somebody will then have to climb down and scrape his bloodied carcass into a bag and haul it back up, which will likely make their day a big fat bummer.

Negative. Search and rescue volunteers love missions. You think they'd rather be sitting at home or something? Yea, it's often emotionally difficult to work "recoveries," rather than rescues... or rescue missions that then become recoveries- but that's the job. It's what they love. It's what they signed up for, are trained for, and are passionate about.

Likewise, the cost to rescue or recover is negligible. National guard helicopters patrol and do training exercises all the time. They can burn fuel doing that, which becomes rather mundane after a while, or they can get called out to assist on S&R missions and do REAL work... receiving the same salary and burning the same fuel they normally would. Overtime pay for paid LE S&R costs some, but it's a standard service that's provided to the public that's paying them to provide diverse service, and is budgeted for. Lost kids at campgrounds, injured hikers, lost hunters make up the bulk of those missions... climbing accidents and other higher risk activities much less so. But they're just as entitled to those services as everyone else. and often times, they take less manpower and resources than the more run of the mill mission, because a lot of the time all you need is one bird and 3 crew members to pluck a body/injured climber off the side of a mountain - versus the dozens or even hundreds often called out to search for kids in the woods. For days.

and even as someone with some experience in risky sport risk assessment, I couldn't even begin to tell you how seriously he's taking his personal safety... what are your qualifications to make that call?

Frustrating misconceptions abound, on this topic.

charliedid
08-11-2017, 09:48 PM
I think it's stupid but that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't do it.

He should wear a parachute or wingsuit and when he's finished bunny hopping around on the rocks he can flip off into the great wide open. That would be way better...

dustyrider
08-11-2017, 09:55 PM
I think it's stupid but that doesn't mean I think he shouldn't do it.

He should wear a parachute or wingsuit and when he's finished bunny hopping around on the rocks he can flip off into the great wide open. That would be way better...

What are you doing in October? Rampage is coming! Video (https://www.redbull.com/us-en/videos/red-bull-rampage-2017-teaser)

victoryfactory
08-12-2017, 06:25 AM
Wow! What amazing talent. Reminds me of the recent free climb of
el capitan by Alex Honnold. There have always been people who
live in that extreme world that scares the crap out of us "normals"

Something elemental in the human spirit? Can't explain it but it's
impressive.
And yes it's also selfish, irresponsible & illegal. that's the world that these specialists inhabit.

They have to do it, I think. No matter the cost. And we have to watch.

VF

fignon's barber
08-12-2017, 07:51 AM
I love Brumotti's vids. IMO the world is a more fun place because of people like him.


I like your positive outlook. :beer:

dgauthier
08-12-2017, 12:20 PM
Only a matter of time.

Well, yes.

I like the way my wife summed up activities like sky diving (or, say, bunny hopping on a ridge over the Grand Effing Canyon): "I'm smart, but no matter how careful I am, I still make mistakes. Why would I engage in an activity where the first time I make one mistake, I'm dead?"

Sure, death is inevitable, but why so soon?

ckamp
08-12-2017, 09:58 PM
Jeez.. why?!

At least I know my vision wheels are pretty decent..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

pdmtong
08-12-2017, 11:06 PM
The moves and riding are well within the guy's ability. Watch enough of these trials videos and that becomes obvious. Of course that does not negate any of the numerous variables which could result in doom.

what's different here is his position / road bike. If he did all this in a parking lot no one would watch.

I've seen ryan leech multiple times and macaskill a few months ago for the first time. I have to say I knew what was coming, was watching for what was coming, but when it happened I still cannot figure out or understand exactly how they did what I just saw.

vertical hop 39" straight up and laterally over a bar. ride right into the side of 10 foot vertical box and climb up it. roll across a 2" wide bar for 25 feet....

that last side hop? watch the move here at 1:10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nGXwiAO57Jg

Black Dog
08-13-2017, 01:52 PM
Negative. Search and rescue volunteers love missions. You think they'd rather be sitting at home or something? Yea, it's often emotionally difficult to work "recoveries," rather than rescues... or rescue missions that then become recoveries- but that's the job. It's what they love. It's what they signed up for, are trained for, and are passionate about.

Likewise, the cost to rescue or recover is negligible. National guard helicopters patrol and do training exercises all the time. They can burn fuel doing that, which becomes rather mundane after a while, or they can get called out to assist on S&R missions and do REAL work... receiving the same salary and burning the same fuel they normally would. Overtime pay for paid LE S&R costs some, but it's a standard service that's provided to the public that's paying them to provide diverse service, and is budgeted for. Lost kids at campgrounds, injured hikers, lost hunters make up the bulk of those missions... climbing accidents and other higher risk activities much less so. But they're just as entitled to those services as everyone else. and often times, they take less manpower and resources than the more run of the mill mission, because a lot of the time all you need is one bird and 3 crew members to pluck a body/injured climber off the side of a mountain - versus the dozens or even hundreds often called out to search for kids in the woods. For days.

and even as someone with some experience in risky sport risk assessment, I couldn't even begin to tell you how seriously he's taking his personal safety... what are your qualifications to make that call?

Frustrating misconceptions abound, on this topic.

Thank you for adding some healthy perspective and facts to this discussion. He is far less likely to fall off the edge than some moron trying to get a cool shot with their selfie stick at the edge. High risk sports look dangerous to those on the outside, but that is true of riding a road bike too. All of us here are assuming the risk of death or serious injury everytime we throw a leg over our bikes and go for a ride. We have skills and the ability to assess and mitigate the risk to a point that we feel safe enough to go. He is doing the same. The only bad decisions are the ones that people make that have them doing something beyond their abilities in a given situation, doing that, knowingly, is stupid and selfish. Does anyone really think that he was doing that?

akelman
08-13-2017, 04:12 PM
Tell yourself whatever you want. Truly, so long as you're not riding illegally in one of the National Parks or some other public space where you might need to be rescued by someone whose time can better be spent helping people who aren't adrenaline junkies, I'm not going to judge you. That said, the data are clear: extreme sports are risky. Here's (http://newsroom.aaos.org/media-resources/Press-releases/significant-head-neck-injury-risk-associated-with-extreme-sports.tekprint) just one relatively recent study. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of others that say the same thing. Again, though, those risks are 100% yours to take -- so long as you don't try to offload the consequences onto other people.

Speaking of which, don't fool yourself into thinking that the fact that "search and rescue volunteers love missions" means they don't look at talented glory seekers/publicity hounds like Brumotti with anything but contempt. He's not just taking a risk; he's putting other people at risk. I have friends who are backcountry rangers in National Parks. I have friends who are smoke jumpers in the Rockies. I have friends who are paramedics in big cities. All of them love their jobs. All of them are, to some extent, risk takers themselves. But every single one of them has nothing but scorn for people who intentionally put themselves in harm's way and then need to be bailed out.

fuzzalow
08-13-2017, 04:28 PM
I don't have a problem with what this guy does. It's a free country - even to the point of borderline illegality. Just don't get caught. Or if he does, don't whine about it and get outta jail and do it all over again.

Whatever it takes to find meaning in life is OK with me even if I don't get it 'cos even if I don't get the activity I do get the desire.

marciero
08-13-2017, 05:12 PM
No... odds are overwhelmingly that dangerous sports won't kill their participants. As someone who engages in a couple of "high-risk" hobbies, I've known hundreds of people who accept risk, use their experience and skill to mitigate the risk, and live long very healthy lives.



I'd be interested to know if this is true. Would still be anecdotal, but do you really know hundreds of old base jumpers, wing-suiters, etc? I remember reading an article in Outside years ago where one alpinist was lamenting that the mountains had gradually taken all her friends. I think would undoubtedly depend on the activity. Fatalities in some activities are due to things beyond the participant's control. To me this is different than what Brumotti is doing.


The study that akelman cites does not apply here. I dont think we are talking about skateboarding, snowboarding, skiing, surfing, motocross, etc. Those are actual "sports" that have lots of crashes and injuries but very little chance of death.


To me, bunny-hopping a bike is not that impressive. Lots of people seem to be able to do it. What Brumotti is doing is striking and impressive not for the skill (though I sure cant do it!) but for the potential consequences and his ability to manage his fear.

Black Dog
08-13-2017, 05:53 PM
Tell yourself whatever you want. Truly, so long as you're not riding illegally in one of the National Parks or some other public space where you might need to be rescued by someone whose time can better be spent helping people who aren't adrenaline junkies, I'm not going to judge you. That said, the data are clear: extreme sports are risky. Here's (http://newsroom.aaos.org/media-resources/Press-releases/significant-head-neck-injury-risk-associated-with-extreme-sports.tekprint) just one relatively recent study. There are literally hundreds and hundreds of others that say the same thing. Again, though, those risks are 100% yours to take -- so long as you don't try to offload the consequences onto other people.

Speaking of which, don't fool yourself into thinking that the fact that "search and rescue volunteers love missions" means they don't look at talented glory seekers/publicity hounds like Brumotti with anything but contempt. He's not just taking a risk; he's putting other people at risk. I have friends who are backcountry rangers in National Parks. I have friends who are smoke jumpers in the Rockies. I have friends who are paramedics in big cities. All of them love their jobs. All of them are, to some extent, risk takers themselves. But every single one of them has nothing but scorn for people who intentionally put themselves in harm's way and then need to be bailed out.

Where is the line drawn then when we look at the level of risk that you would deem acceptable? We all put ourselves in harms way and we do not always have self rescue plans nor can we. I would argue that every ride might fall into this category, certainly MTB rides. I know risk and harm well as I frequently travel and guide in very remote wild areas in the north of Canada and also teach people how to assess and mitigate risk in these environs. The people that deserve scorn are those that are untrained, unprepared, and inexperienced and go for it knowing this. It is those that go ahead out of ignorance that I feel bad for, they just don't know and end up in trouble before they even realize it. Are you suggesting that the rider in the video is all of these things? If the odds of him falling is 0.01% and the odds of an average hiker getting injured is 0.01% is he such a menace? Everyone here is assuming that they know the level of risk that he is taking. Unless you can do what he does you do not know the risk. He knows the risk and we can assume that he does not want to die on any given day. Can he make a bad choice that can turn things pear shaped; certainly. So can Ted from accounting when he takes a walk in the canyon on well marked trails during his 2 week vacation. Risk is fluid and hard to judge effectively without the prerequisite expertise that those who ply a particular activity have. A lot of people here are looking at this from their own perspective and deciding that this is reckless because it would be if they were doing it.

akelman
08-13-2017, 06:32 PM
Where is the line drawn then when we look at the level of risk that you would deem acceptable? We all put ourselves in harms way and we do not always have self rescue plans nor can we. I would argue that every ride might fall into this category, certainly MTB rides. I know risk and harm well as I frequently travel and guide in very remote wild areas in the north of Canada and also teach people how to assess and mitigate risk in these environs. The people that deserve scorn are those that are untrained, unprepared, and inexperienced and go for it knowing this, this that go ahead out of ignorance I feel bad for, they just don't know and end up in trouble before they even realize it. Are you suggesting that the rider in the video is all of these things? If the odds of him falling is 0.01% and the odds of an average hiker getting injured is 0.01% is he such a menace? Everyone here is assuming that they know the level of risk that he is taking. Unless you can do what he does you do not know the risk. He knows the risk and we can assume that he does not want to die on any given day. Can he make a bad choice that can turn things pear shaped; certainly. So can Ted from accounting when he takes a walk in the canyon on well marked trails during his 2 week vacation. Risk is fluid and hard to judge effectively without the prerequisite expertise that those who ply a particular activity have. A lot of people here are looking at this from their own perspective and deciding that this is reckless because it would be if they were doing it.

You're talking about differences of both degree and kind. As you said above, every time I go for a ride, I definitely incur some risk. But the thing is, I do my best to limit that risk. I wear a helmet, I ride legally (mostly), I keep my equipment in decent shape, and I try hard to know my limits.

On that last point, knowing one's limits, it's true that the friends I mentioned above also scorn weekend warriors who get in over their heads in the backcountry. But while I don't have data about which is riskier -- extreme sports or hiking -- I can guess the results. Add in that people who are out hiking very rarely film themselves in the hopes of generating lots of page views, and I'm even more confident that they're doing fewer things that will have potentially life-threatening consequences.

Again, though, I'm not trying to change your mind about your appetite for risk. I think you should, within reason, seek thrills. So long as you're not engaging in illegal activities, so long as your activities won't put others in harm's way, and so long as you're not destroying public resources, you should 100% (again, within reason) do whatever you want with the time you have on this earth.

josephr
08-13-2017, 10:25 PM
Negative. Search and rescue volunteers love missions. You think they'd rather be sitting at home or something? Yea, it's often emotionally difficult to work "recoveries," rather than rescues... or rescue missions that then become recoveries- but that's the job. It's what they love. It's what they signed up for, are trained for, and are passionate about.

Likewise, the cost to rescue or recover is negligible. National guard helicopters patrol and do training exercises all the time. They can burn fuel doing that, which becomes rather mundane after a while, or they can get called out to assist on S&R missions and do REAL work... receiving the same salary and burning the same fuel they normally would. Overtime pay for paid LE S&R costs some, but it's a standard service that's provided to the public that's paying them to provide diverse service, and is budgeted for. Lost kids at campgrounds, injured hikers, lost hunters make up the bulk of those missions... climbing accidents and other higher risk activities much less so. But they're just as entitled to those services as everyone else. and often times, they take less manpower and resources than the more run of the mill mission, because a lot of the time all you need is one bird and 3 crew members to pluck a body/injured climber off the side of a mountain - versus the dozens or even hundreds often called out to search for kids in the woods. For days.

and even as someone with some experience in risky sport risk assessment, I couldn't even begin to tell you how seriously he's taking his personal safety... what are your qualifications to make that call?

Frustrating misconceptions abound, on this topic.

Sorry....but this is biggest bullcrap in the history of this forum. No one enjoys having to scrape someone off the side of the mountain nor piece anyone together after an physically traumatic event caused by one's own under-estimation of their skills. Emergency rooms and rescue units are busy enough without another idiot adding to the caseload. More often than not, those rescue costs are burdened by the taxpayers and the medical costs, if covered by insurance, are reflected in higher insurance rates. They're not carried by the individuals who've taken those risks and failed.

Additionally, calling out another forum member on their qualifications to express an opinion is an inflammatory tactic. An apology is due.

fuzzalow
08-13-2017, 10:34 PM
Sorry....but this is biggest bullcrap in the history of this forum. No one enjoys having to scrape someone off the side of the mountain nor piece anyone together after an physically traumatic event caused by one's own under-estimation of their skills. Emergency rooms and rescue units are busy enough without another idiot adding to the caseload. More often than not, those rescue costs are burdened by the taxpayers and the medical costs, if covered by insurance, are reflected in higher insurance rates. They're not carried by the individuals who've taken those risks and failed.

Additionally, calling out another forum member on their qualifications to express an opinion is an inflammatory tactic. An apology is due.

Bravo. Correct on all counts.

Nice to hear sane, adult feedback from somebody who has their head on straight and can see beyond vulgar self interest that obliterates any perspective beyond a life view directly in line with their own id.

P.S. The idea that is catching flak here: that carnage is a welcome event because it keeps emergency response crews busy with something to do rather than just the boredom of just sitting around waiting for the klaxon is, well, stupendous. And I can't help but feel that somebody's pulling my leg here, that nobody could possibly be that indecent, offensive or self obsessed that this thought could be put out there in seriousness - maybe just a puerile, moronic joke said and DOA as a joke. Gotta be, nobody's that...

Then again, gotta consider the source.