Wal-mart guy buys RAPHA...

[Mikej]

http://www.velonews.com/2017/08/news/walmart-heirs-buy-rapha_445542

[AngryScientist]

bet you thought you were breaking some news here huh Mike?

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=208981&highlight=walmart

[Mikej]

bet you thought you were breaking some news here huh mike?

https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=208981&highlight=walmart

woops YOU CAN DELETE THIS OR WHATEVER -

[AngryScientist]

woops

nah, it's cool.

happy to re-open the discussion here as long as it doesnt go totally off the rails like the last one did.


:beer:

[makoti]

Ha! Just lock it now... ;)

[redir]

The oldest heir Robson Walton in Arkansas held the state 40K record back in the mid 80s.

[Mikej]

I guess I see it as a good thing - A cyclist who enjoys building trails and programs and has the $$ to do it buys a cool cycling company.

[raygunner]

I always envisioned Nike buying them.

Kinda OT but one of the Ricketts is into cycling & bought a suburban Chicago bike shop right around when they bought the Cubs.

[jruhlen1980]

nah, it's cool.

happy to re-open the discussion here as long as it doesnt go totally off the rails like the last one did.


:beer:

Wow. I didn't follow the first thread after the first couple pages because I lost interest; I had no idea it went as crazy town as it did. That's amazing.

[Gsinill]

RZC Investments only acts as a straw man.
It's actually Martin Shkreli (this guy (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=208842&highlight=felicia)) that's behind the deal.

Rumors has it that he already has plans to raise the price for Rapha's Classic Jersey II to $8,000 (i.e. by 5,000%).

[dbnm]

I will admit that I freaked a bit when I heard the news yesterday but I think it's going to be a good thing.

And if it isn't, there are other clothing options.

[azrider]

The oldest heir Robson Walton in Arkansas held the state 40K record back in the mid 80s.

Yeah he's out here in AZ now (at least during most pleasurable months) and holds his own just fine in the A groups

Nice guy.

[zmudshark]

Yeah he's out here in AZ now (at least during most pleasurable months) and holds his own just fine in the A groups

Nice guy.
He is very good rider. He's ridden me into the ground.

[instantturtle]

So does this mean they'll expand into MTB? I thought the Walton brothers were more trail less road...


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[oldpotatoe]

http://www.velonews.com/2017/08/news/walmart-heirs-buy-rapha_445542

So they are grandsons of the Walmart founder and own an investment firm....not exactly 'Walmart guys', eh?

[azrider]

So does this mean they'll expand into MTB? I thought the Walton brothers were more trail less road...

IT'S NOT WALMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude these clickbait titles is not helping these otherwise interesting discussions spiral into sh*T

[commonguy001]

So does this mean they'll expand into MTB? I thought the Walton brothers were more trail less road...


Crap, does this mean I'm doing it wrong when I wear my rapha kits on the MTB? J/K :beer:

So they are grandsons of the Walmart founder and own an investment firm....not exactly 'Walmart guys', eh?

Agreed not exactly

[instantturtle]

IT'S NOT WALMART!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Dude these clickbait titles is not helping these otherwise interesting discussions spiral into sh*T



Oh, I wholly understand Walmart did not buy Rapha literally but from what I've read, the brothers are more mountain bikers and if they're invested they might have some thoughts on the direction of Rapha. If they want to expand their line/brand, then they still have the MTB/CX/TT markets to look at.


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[FlashUNC]

The reason RZC can buy Rapha is because of WalMart money. He didn't create an investment fund saving pennies from his day job as a bus driver.

His last name is Walton to Pete's sake, and grandson of Sam Walton.

Yes, its Walmart.

[Vientomas]

https://www.ialumbra.com/founder/

https://www.ranchocacachilas.com/trails-biking-hiking/

I ain't gonna complain about the Walton kids - at least one is helping to build mtb trails in Baja.

[e-RICHIE]

The reason RZC can buy Rapha is because of WalMart money. He didn't create an investment fund saving pennies from his day job as a bus driver.

His last name is Walton to Pete's sake, and grandson of Sam Walton.

Yes, its Walmart.

Ya' know - I was having a parallel chat with a pal elsewhere. No one I know is giving back all the money made in my industry from the Lance era. And from what I hear, his reign made a lot of people a lot of money. And then he was found out.

Why should the offspring pay the price for decisions their parents or grandparents before them made? By all accounts, the brothers are trying to do good, and for the cycling community at that. Sure, they are astute businessmen and will likely make a profit from this investment. But so what to that?

They are the investors, not Sam Walton.

[54ny77]

I still wanna know if I can bundle a gallon of Mobil 1 with a pair of bib shorts and get free 2-day shipping.

[Mikej]

The reason RZC can buy Rapha is because of WalMart money. He didn't create an investment fund saving pennies from his day job as a bus driver.

His last name is Walton to Pete's sake, and grandson of Sam Walton.

Yes, its Walmart.

Thanks dude, my sentiment exactly, except I chose flipping burgers...

[Mikej]

I still wanna know if I can bundle a gallon of Mobil 1 with a pair of bib shorts and get free 2-day shipping.

Rapha Prime...

[azrider]

Again.......IT IS NOT WALMART.

Did the money come from WalMarts success? Technically yes. But I can guarantee you that the decisions made at this Trust Fund kids little pet project RZC, is completely separate from decisions made at the actual WalMart Executive offices.

You know what.....F it, I'm out. How do you block threads :rolleyes:

[azrider]

Ya' know - I was having a parallel chat with a pal elsewhere. No one I know is giving back all the money made in my industry from the Lance era. And from what I hear, his reign made a lot of people a lot of money. And then he was found out.

Why should the offspring pay the price for decisions their parents or grandparents before them made? By all accounts, the brothers are trying to do good, and for the cycling community at that. Sure, they are astute businessmen and will likely make a profit from this investment. But so what to that?

They are the investors, not Sam Walton.

gets it.

[Mikej]

Again.......IT IS NOT WALMART.

Did the money come from WalMarts success? Technically yes. But I can guarantee you that the decisions made at this Trust Fund kids little pet project RZC, is completely separate from decisions made at the actual WalMart Executive offices.

You know what.....F it, I'm out. How do you block threads :rolleyes:

Nobody said it was WALMART - just WALMART GUY. Who was the son of the founder of WALMART, who got his money from WALMART. Sure its a different name of an investment company, but GMC is still a chevy...

[FlashUNC]

Ya' know - I was having a parallel chat with a pal elsewhere. No one I know is giving back all the money made in my industry from the Lance era. And from what I hear, his reign made a lot of people a lot of money. And then he was found out.

Why should the offspring pay the price for decisions their parents or grandparents before them made? By all accounts, the brothers are trying to do good, and for the cycling community at that. Sure, they are astute businessmen and will likely make a profit from this investment. But so what to that?

They are the investors, not Sam Walton.

And good on them for living their best lives, I don't begrudge them that, and I'm glad the money is going to at least some marginal good use.

But there are some (and count me in that basket) who think the economy-bending organization that is Wal-Mart, and the near unimaginable dynastic wealth that's been created by its practices -- they're the richest family in America at a hair over $130 billion -- can't easily be hand-waved away.

The family still controls 54% of the company that today still engages, in my view, in a bunch of scummy business practices. This isn't some long-detached fortune that was created centuries ago, like he's some farflung Du Pont sibling. Pop-pop created arguably one of the most destructive retail forces the world has ever seen and the family still calls the shots.

Cutting a couple of sweet mountain bike trails and being fast on a group ride and buying a clothing company ain't exactly absolution for that.

[azrider]

Yes, its Walmart.

Nobody said it was WALMART

https://media.giphy.com/media/h7hk8ewnaZWCc/giphy.gif

[instantturtle]

Aren't the Waltons the modern day robber barons? In any case, someone bought Rapha. They wanted to sell and they have the right to sell who they want to sell to. That said, I'll look at other options...


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[e-RICHIE]

And good on them for living their best lives, I don't begrudge them that, and I'm glad the money is going to at least some marginal good use.

But there are some (and count me in that basket) who think the economy-bending organization that is Wal-Mart, and the near unimaginable dynastic wealth that's been created by its practices -- they're the richest family in America at a hair over $130 billion -- can't easily be hand-waved away.

The family still controls 54% of the company that today still engages, in my view, in a bunch of scummy business practices. This isn't some long-detached fortune that was created centuries ago, like he's some farflung Du Pont sibling. Pop-pop created arguably one of the most destructive retail forces the world has ever seen and the family still calls the shots.

Cutting a couple of sweet mountain bike trails and being fast on a group ride and buying a clothing company ain't exactly absolution for that.

Well okay then.

[livingminimal]

And good on them for living their best lives, I don't begrudge them that, and I'm glad the money is going to at least some marginal good use.

But there are some (and count me in that basket) who think the economy-bending organization that is Wal-Mart, and the near unimaginable dynastic wealth that's been created by its practices -- they're the richest family in America at a hair over $130 billion -- can't easily be hand-waved away.

The family still controls 54% of the company that today still engages, in my view, in a bunch of scummy business practices. This isn't some long-detached fortune that was created centuries ago, like he's some farflung Du Pont sibling. Pop-pop created arguably one of the most destructive retail forces the world has ever seen and the family still calls the shots.

Cutting a couple of sweet mountain bike trails and being fast on a group ride and buying a clothing company ain't exactly absolution for that.


Hear, hear. This sums it up nicely.
You can be ok with this or not, its to each their individual call, but its hard to argue with anything Flash just said.

Also, I am starting to wonder if their end-game is turning the CC's into bicycle repair shops as well as clothing stores. I just went to the Los Angeles one and saw the inside. Its ****ing huge and on 4th street in Santa Monica. Its one expensive piece of physical retail storefront if its going to serve as a loss leader for online sales...

[gdw]

We need to add the Sonoma incident and vegan/vegitarian discussions to this thread. Rapha, Wal-Mart, big ag, self loathing cyclists...... think of the possibilities and it isn't even January.:banana:

[fuzzalow]

Heck, the angriest thing I've got to say about the Walton heirs is that I wasn't born one of them.

Followed by a close second to not being Simon whats-his-name for not being the guy that came up with, and then cashed outta, Rapha.

There's always somebody smarter, richer...

To FlashUNC's point but not in agreement with: WalMart is modern day capitalism even if it has mutated away from the customer-focused ideals that might have be at the core of Sam Walton's goals and beliefs from when he started WalMart all those years ago - to give his customers more for their money.

It is capitalism, and it underlies what and how the Waltons do what they do. If not by them, then certainly, in the due course of capitalist progression, this would have been done by somebody else.

[Climb01742]

Wal-Mart and Patagonia both exist under 'capitalism' yet they illustrate that there is no one, encompassing definition of of what capitalism is, or the values that govern it.

So much discourse today falls into the either/or dialectic. Which serves no one and definitely doesn't serve getting at the truth of a situation.

The Wal-Marts heirs who bought Rapha fall into this dialectic. They're either good hearted saviors or vile offspring of cutthroat capitalism. Isn't the truth somewhere in between?

Their inheritance is the result of business practices that are 100% legal but have a) lowered the prices of almost every item imaginable and b) harmed many communities, small businesses and employees while doing it.

The heirs may be good men and have good intentions, and they should be judged by their actions. But it would be naive, I think, and a bit myopic, to not at least factor in where the money they are doing good with came from.

It's one of the greatest questions about dynastic wealth, asked in reference to the Rockefellers, Andrew Carnegie, Hearst, du Pont, and even the 'merchant of death' (from his obit) that founded the Nobels...what's the statute of limitations on the harm/evil done to make fortunes? Not an either/or question or answer. Like capitalism itself, it's neither good nor bad, it's grey defined by the lives of those that make and use that wealth.

[kevinvc]

The Walton family will be extremely rich for the rest of their generations. The heirs will not have to work and will be free to pursue whatever endeavors that they choose without regard for generating income for themselves. Great for them, arguably not so for our society as a whole if we choose to continue to deceive ourselves that we live in a meritocracy.

My personal belief is that this is a great example of the need for an estate tax. This has nothing to do with whatever values or politics these individuals hold or how the fortune was earned. I feel the same for Paul Allen, Bill Gates, etc.

[54ny77]

the moral indignation about source of wealth shaping one's current decision making can be never ending.

where does one draw the line? i suppose that's part of this discussion.

for example, do a simple search about global companies complicit in aiding and/or profiting from their affiliation with nazi germany. it's huge.

drink coffee from a krupp machine? drive a porsche or vw? pop a bayer aspirin for a headache?

and on and on....including american companies. and ain't it ironic that alcoa is one of them (relevant in this bike-centric forum as a bike tubing manufacturer).

[dbnm]

Shipping is the worst part of Rapha.

Two day shipping should be standard on orders over $100.

Their customer service is really quite good via both phone and email.

[colker]

the moral indignation about source of wealth shaping one's current decision making can be never ending.

where does one draw the line? i suppose that's part of this discussion.

for example, do a simple search about global companies complicit in aiding and/or profiting from their affiliation with nazi germany. it's huge.

drink coffee from a krupp machine? drive a porsche or vw? pop a bayer aspirin for a headache?

and on and on....including american companies. and ain't it ironic that alcoa is one of them (relevant in this bike-centric forum as a bike tubing manufacturer).

This^^Money is usually tainted w/ injustice.

[FlashUNC]

the moral indignation about source of wealth shaping one's current decision making can be never ending.

where does one draw the line? i suppose that's part of this discussion.

for example, do a simple search about global companies complicit in aiding and/or profiting from their affiliation with nazi germany. it's huge.

drink coffee from a krupp machine? drive a porsche or vw? pop a bayer aspirin for a headache?

and on and on....including american companies. and ain't it ironic that alcoa is one of them (relevant in this bike-centric forum as a bike tubing manufacturer).

If Henry Ford were still running Ford, then the comparison might be apt. (Course, Henry paid his line workers double the going labor rate cuz he wanted customers for his Model T, whereas the Walton's are fine with their employees on government assistance, effectively having the rest of us subsidize their business practices, but I digress.)

The Walton family still runs Wal Mart. Everything wrong with the company stops with the Walton family, both in origin and current operation.

[fiamme red]

So they are grandsons of the Walmart founder and own an investment firm....not exactly 'Walmart guys', eh?Steuart Walton is not just a trust-fund kid.

http://www.waltonfamilyfoundation.org/steuart-walton

"Steuart serves on the board of directors of Walmart..."

[shovelhd]

Aren't the Waltons the modern day robber barons?

No, that would be Jeff Bezos.

[Fatty]

No, that would be Jeff Bezos.

Or Elon Musk.

[Mikej]

No, that would be Jeff Bezos.

At least Wal-Mart has made an actual profit...

[shovelhd]

Or Elon Musk.

Elon Musk has not attempted (yet) to dominate retail sales of everything made in the universe.

[shovelhd]

At least Wal-Mart has made an actual profit...

Walmart employs 1.5M people in the US. Amazon employs 345K.

[Fatty]

Elon Musk has not attempted (yet) to dominate retail sales of everything made in the universe.

Has he turned a profit on a single car that he has sold. Or is he a multi billionaire through massive gubmint subsidies?

[shovelhd]

Just sticking to the facts, per moderator request. Everyone can draw their own conclusions.

[fuzzalow]

I usually directly quote who I'm responding to to address the point & the person head on but there's too much fuzziness in what the negativity to the Walton heirs and certain big business practices as voiced in this thread.

Sure, some of these posts express unhappiness. But what do you suggest doing about it and what specifically do you want?

Even as a conservative, I take the view that unfettered capitalism is rapacious. I also take the view that, even as a conservative, modern democratic government must take a more active role in protection of its citizenry consistent to and consistent with a modern progression in conservative principles. It must be this way because the modern world and economic globalism is too complex for the vast average citizens to cope. All this done not as economic redistribution but as progressive maintenance of social order and institutions as to conserve.

This is a free country. With mostly a free market underpinning the capitalism of its economy. Some the responses in this thread parse capitalism as if to denote a desire for capitalism that meets with your own standard for what capitalism should be. Ludicrous and contradictory to the creative construct of what capitalism engenders and ferments. It's like the joke from the Woody Allen movie where the woman says she finally had an orgasm and her shrink then told her she had the wrong kind. Some of the gripes heard here is capitalism being the wrong kind.

Sometimes these discussions bring on a populist vent & rant which is fine. But what comes next has gotta be thought given to what to do about it. Ideas move nations, creates opportunity and wealth. Let us all find a way to move forwards together and fix the problems.

[livingminimal]

Walmart employs 1.5M people in the US. Amazon employs 345K.

and Id like to point out once again, at an average wage of $13.69 per hour, which does not go very far in most markets in terms of housing sustainability, which is (or should be, for all of us) a serious concern.

[instantturtle]

FWIW I simply don't buy from Walmart and try to do my best in purchasing from socially conscious companies/B-Corps (even though they are capitalists). I've found (and maybe they are or aren't but at least they've adversities as such):

Patagonia
Prana
REI (to some extent)

Haven't found much for cycling clothing companies. I did find one that was bluesign but heir jerseys were hard to look at...



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[54ny77]

Interesting stat. The disruption that Amazon has caused in retailing can't just be measured in headcount. Not only do they do more with less people, they've contributed to the decimation of retail (physical retail) in general, both large & small. The implications travel far beyond just employment numbers. It spills over into the financial markets who've funded the purchase, construction, etc. of retail centers big & small, the related industries required to get the physical space up & running (construction & materials), the employees needed to work in the stores themselves, all of the related services those stores need to operate (utilities, insurance, accounting, etc.) and the multiplier effect of income associated with all the people mentioned in the above sectors.

AMZN will be (and is) an interesting case study for biz school. It will be interesting to see how it evolves over the coming years.

My wife owns a small biz retail store, and her prior career was in major corporate retail, so I hear this discussion at varying levels quite frequently.

Walmart employs 1.5M people in the US. Amazon employs 345K.

[jlwdm]

Has he turned a profit on a single car that he has sold. Or is he a multi billionaire through massive gubmint subsidies?

He is a dreamer who makes things happen. Too bad we don't have more like him. Cashed in on PayPal and then basically lost it all with Tesla. Makes things happen, or improves on new ideas or gets others working on ideas: rockets, solar power, hyperloop. It does not seem to be about the money at all with him.

Jeff

[livingminimal]

gubmint subsidies?

Talk to me about your intent with phrasery like this. Particularly substituting government with "gubmint"

[livingminimal]

He is a dreamer who makes things happen. Too bad we don't have more like him. Cashed in on PayPal and then basically lost it all with Tesla. Makes things happen, or improves on new ideas or gets others working on ideas: rockets, solar power, hyperloop. It does not seem to be about the money at all with him.

Jeff


He is a dreamer who makes things happen, I won't disagree there. I think the HyperLoop stuff is more exciting than SpaceX frankly, and Tesla's massive losses are really just an investment to push the envelope on the technology so other companies eventually catch on.

He's also fighting tooth and nail against his workers unionizing over the last few years. As an ardent Socialist, this is something this dude does not abide.

[livingminimal]

Not only do they do more with less people, they've contributed to the decimation of retail (physical retail) in general, both large & small. .

Walton-scum made their billions off vaporizing business in small towns, swallowing up all of the people that used to work for them, and paying them half of what they were making before, all to sell them back basic goods they need to live and telling them to get ****ed and on food stamps if it wasn't enough.

Bezos learned how to master selling to affluent urban/suburban rich whites at the lowest possible cost to his business.

It's at the same time interesting and sickening to watch the two now.

[Fatty]

He is a dreamer who makes things happen. Too bad we don't have more like him. Cashed in on PayPal and then basically lost it all with Tesla. Makes things happen, or improves on new ideas or gets others working on ideas: rockets, solar power, hyperloop. It does not seem to be about the money at all with him.

Jeff

No doubt about that. I think he will go down in history with the great thinkers / doers like Edison, Ford and Hughes.

[shovelhd]

and Id like to point out once again, at an average wage of $13.69 per hour, which does not go very far in most markets in terms of housing sustainability, which is (or should be, for all of us) a serious concern.

The majority of Amazon jobs are in fulfillment, many of which are part time. Amazon is working actively to eliminate as many of them as possible through further automation.

[peanutgallery]

Went on a MTB related road trip with my son last weekend and for some reason we got on the topic of US currency and its naming. We came up with some interesting re-naming ideas and why and had a few good laughs

Here goes our top 3 new names for the Dollar, with the 1st as the winner in our collective opinion (Much like a dollar, an Elon is also vapor):

Elons
Trumpkins
Bezos

Since this discussion, we have been using Elons instead of $ around the house when addressing all things financial. I must admit, its been kinda fun. Be funny if it catches on

After reading this thread, the Walton may have made the list

[Bostic]

I read through the announcement at http://pages.rapha.cc/announcement
It appears not much is going to change correct? Same product, same daily emails (I haven't opted out) but better over reach to expand their products and market presence?

[54ny77]

Speaking of retail....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-08-11/j-c-penney-plummets-after-loss-renews-concerns-about-industry

[dddd]

...Bezos learned how to master selling to affluent urban/suburban rich whites...

How do you manage to make this about race?

Is your statement that rich = "white"?

How do you define "white", exactly? Did you do some sort or survey? Why?

Do you look at people and say "hmmm, white or black?"

And such categorization is useful in solving what problem?

I get that the talking heads use such terms on TV, but I don't take much from them.

So it was "white" people who somehow were the only one's to catch onto using Amazon while Bezos was getting rich. Yeah, sure.

[livingminimal]

How do you manage to make this about race?

Is your statement that rich = "white"?

How do you define "white", exactly? Did you do some sort or survey? Why?

Do you look at people and say "hmmm, white or black?"

And such categorization is useful in solving what problem?

I get that the talking heads use such terms on TV, but I don't take much from them.

So it was white people who somehow were the only one's to catch onto using Amazon while Bezos was getting rich. Yeah, sure.


It's really not nearly as complicated as you're making it out to be.
Bezos purposely marketed to a particular demographic. Ones with liquid income for ancillary goods and services. He didn't enter the marketplace targeting the working class, POCs, or anyone else of any color. He targeted the affluent and marketed in a particular way.

Tell me how many working class folks, of which quite a large percentage are persons of color, can afford an Amazon Prime membership?

My point is Bezos strategy ran through the rich white affluent suburbs. Is there an argument otherwise?

And yes, I do see things quite often through the prism of race and class because the capitalist system was designed to exploit the most vulnerable and enrich the best protected.

Alternatively, in my original point I said Walmart's goal was to destroy small businesses and monopolize the market on where the poor could shop.

[54ny77]

Wow, is that what they're teaching in school these days?

It's funny but my grandfather, who came over here with nothing from a land far away, didn't quite have that attitude.

Buying a color t.v. was a pretty big deal back in his day (the 50's). And he was proud of it. Work hard, save money, buy it. Only in America.

Little to no native language was spoken in the home. It was embrace America, speak English, enjoy the opportunities it affords. Oh and encounter brutal racism along the way. But overcome.

He was a reasonably smart guy, but I don't even think he could have uttered the phrase you just described (as in, he probably couldn't even speak those words in English let alone grasp the concepts).

Many years later he did end up cooking for a President or two and some royalty, so he got to meet the heads of capitalism who exploited him for his duck l'orange. By then he might have understood what you said. Maybe.

Eventually he ended up in FL, driving a Cadillac and living the American dream: full-house air conditioning.

:)



And yes, I do see things quite often through the prism of race and class because the capitalist system was designed to exploit the most vulnerable and enrich the best protected.

[BobO]

and yes, i do see things quite often through the prism of race and class because the capitalist corporatist system was designed to exploit the most vulnerable and enrich the best protected.

Ftfy as there is a rather profound difference.

[dddd]

I just don't get the designation of an "of color" designation at all. Think about it, it makes no real sense, yet we hear these words from the media all the time.

In the absence of laws designating who is "black", "white", "of color", etc., all of which is 100% bs fabrication, these words are only used by those either wishing to make sweeping generalizations to support their arguments/agenda, or those perhaps trying to divide the electorate into supporting legislation that they can use to exploit a more-divided electorate/population.

That Bezos focused on a more affluent statistical "demographic" of some sort certainly comes as no surprise though!

I am often irked by politicians directing legislation for example at stupidly-defined (actually less-then-defined) categories correlating to nationality/race, instead of directing it at, say, "poverty", homelessness, or current criminal status, which guarantees that real problems will never get solved even while money is spent and rules are ...bent.

[FlashUNC]

I just don't get the designation of an "of color" designation at all. Think about it, it makes no real sense, yet we hear these words from the media all the time.

In the absence of laws designating who is "black", "white", "of color", etc., all of which is 100% bs fabrication, these words are only used by those either wishing to make sweeping generalizations to support their arguments/agenda, or those perhaps trying to divide the electorate into supporting legislation that they can use to exploit a more-divided electorate/population.

That Bezos focused on a more affluent statistical "demographic" of some sort certainly comes as no surprise though!

I am often irked by politicians directing legislation for example at stupidly-defined (actually less-then-defined) categories correlating to nationality/race, instead of directing it at, say, "poverty", homelessness, or current criminal status, which guarantees that real problems will never get solved even while money is spent and rules are ...bent.

Uber racially profiled customers: https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/10/uber-lyft-and-the-false-promise-of-fair-rides/506000/

AirBnB is so notorious for not renting to minorities it spawned other apps that would maybe fulfill that need: http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Hotel-News/Racial-bias-by-Airbnb-hosts-sparks-minority-alternatives

And yes, Amazon set up algorithms to allocate where Prime service would be available that excluded minority neighborhoods: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3068622/internet/amazon-prime-and-the-racist-algorithms.html

The country has a long and storied history of companies catering to or ignoring demographic groups based on race. It's literally what the Civil Rights Movement was about.

[Bruce K]

OK

I think we're done here.

Too much thread drift in all the wrong directions.

A couple of folks seem to continually want to push threads into political/ socioeconomic discussion.

This is not the place for that.

Please re-read William's post about being part of the solution.

BK