Advice: USPS dispute, tracking reports delivered, but buyer can't find package

[weiwentg]

Seeking the collective wisdom of the forum on opening a dispute with USPS. I had been getting rid of some items, and shipped something to someone on the forum. I used USPS Priority Mail, which includes insurance and delivery confirmation.

Buyer lives in a multi-story apartment. There's no front desk, so each apartment has a small mailbox. I believe the package should have fit into the buyer's mailbox, and the USPS website does claim that the package was delivered last week to the mailbox (and yes, they specifically said to mailbox).

The buyer, however, reports that he hasn't received the item. He said that there have been a lot of problems with USPS delivery, and that he was told that a lot of temp workers take this route. I called the property management company, who confirmed that tenants have had a lot of trouble with USPS delivery in the past.*

I have opened a dispute with the USPS, online. I'm concerned that because their system claims that the package was delivered, they may not be willing or able to do much. Any other advice? Any similar experiences?

Lessons learned: ask if the buyer prefers a specific carrier. Not sure how well signature confirmation would work in this situation, but that's an option - however, the Postal worker may simply ask the first person they see to sign for it. I've signed for packages from various carriers before on behalf of the downstairs neighbors in the duplex we lived in before, and while I was honest, I suppose you can't guarantee everyone in your building will be.

* If the counterparty to the transaction is reading this - I'm not trying to stalk you, but you did leave me your address, so I did check it up so I could understand the situation better. I found an old listing on Zillow for an apartment in your building by the property management company. As a former President said, trust but verify.

[carpediemracing]

Through an actual purchase, for prescription medicine, we called after the medicine never showed up. Ends up that the letter carrier put it in the wrong box, in a box that happened to belong to a house where the owner is living elsewhere. So the medicine sat there for 2 weeks. Quickly redelivered, day after we asked for tracking info at the local post office (geotagged to show that the letter carrier noted it "delivered" while standing at our set of boxes), and medicine is stable to a very high temp and no adverse effects noted.

We live in a condo complex where there's a set of mail boxes (like PO Boxes) with 2 big package boxes. The medicine fit in the regular mail box so that made it worse.

I totally believe that the package could have gone to the wrong box. Our street address doesn't match our box number and our neighbor's box number (empty house) matches our street number (and it's off by a couple rows of mailboxes - the numbers seem to have been assigned randomly for security).

No idea on claims process, but pointing this out to illustrate that it's very possible to have stuff delivered to wrong box.

[AngryScientist]

i guess i could google it, but you should check to see what the fine print says regarding the insurance coverage associated with Priority Mail.

My guess is that the USPS releases themselves from any liability once delivery is confirmed. Without signature req'd, if the letter carrier marked it as delivered, that's that.

now, with that said - how long has it been since the tracking information said it's been delivered? i know for a fact that my letter carrier just marks off "delivered" on blocks of items that he assumes he will deliver in a given period. so i've had stuff actually delivered to my house the day following the tracking number indicating it was delivered. obviously that's not the way it's supposed to work, but i think the USPS folks take some shortcuts in the system for various reasons.

dont panic yet if it's only been a day or two, it may very well show up shortly.

[gpendergast]

I work in eCommerce and shipped ~25k packages via USPS last year. Angry is correct -- if the local carrier has marked the package as delivered, USPS will always claim the recipient lost it and will never pay out the $50+ insurance value.

After wading deep in to the bureaucracy one too many times, we've started taking out 3rd party insurance for anything valuable shipping USPS. Cost is $1.25 per $100.00 of coverage, but they process claims quickly and don't try to weasel out of situations like this. Good luck, hopefully the carrier drops off today or a neighbor comes forward.

[weiwentg]

i guess i could google it, but you should check to see what the fine print says regarding the insurance coverage associated with Priority Mail.

My guess is that the USPS releases themselves from any liability once delivery is confirmed. Without signature req'd, if the letter carrier marked it as delivered, that's that.

now, with that said - how long has it been since the tracking information said it's been delivered? i know for a fact that my letter carrier just marks off "delivered" on blocks of items that he assumes he will deliver in a given period. so i've had stuff actually delivered to my house the day following the tracking number indicating it was delivered. obviously that's not the way it's supposed to work, but i think the USPS folks take some shortcuts in the system for various reasons.

dont panic yet if it's only been a day or two, it may very well show up shortly.

Item was allegedly delivered on August 4 (Friday), at 1:30pm or so. Buyer had contacted me on August 5 and said it still wasn't there. Buyer confirmed that the package is still not present.

I'm pretty sure my legal obligation is done. I suspect that USPS's legal obligation is probably done as well. But I want to know what I can do, nonetheless.

As to folks taking shortcuts, I believe you. The buyer is in San Francisco. He was told (by his local Post Office, I guess) that the workers on his route were temp workers, so presumably poorer pay and training, plus time pressure because parking is insane. I guess I was assuming that on average, USPS works, but lots of people don't live in the "average"* US living situation of a single family home with a mailbox.

As an aside, my apartment complex in Minneapolis is newer, and the Post Office workers have the keys to every individual unit's mailbox, plus larger delivery boxes for bigger packages (if you get one, the USPS person puts the key for one of the boxes in your own mailbox, and then you open the larger box, then you put its key back in your own box).

I also lived in a 1960s apartment in DC, and the Post Office guys had the general key for the small mailboxes, and any packages not fitting in those (that's most packages) would go to the 24h front desk.

So, clearly, it's not just about going to houses and dropping things off. The mail carriers need a lot of training, and a lot of local context that they may not get from formal training. And by local context, I do mean block to block. My neighborhood, Longfellow, is mostly single family homes, but there are some larger apartment complexes, and there's a mix of large ones built in the late 2000s or early 2010s, and a few older and smaller ones. In Baltimore and DC, it's been mixes of rowhouses, new luxury apartment complexes, older smaller multi-family housing, some older and larger multi-family housing, etc. Don't get me wrong, the mail carrier in this case f^&%ed up or was dishonest, but the context exacerbates the likelihood that they will take a shortcut or make an error.

* I'm a statistician, and living situation is a categorical variable, so I actually mean the modal, or most common, living situation. I don't even know how many Americans live in what situation.

[fuzzalow]

So what is the preferred solution to this problem? Because if it is that there is no recourse, then the solution is preemptive on the deficiencies of the carrier and to therefore NOT use USPS.

The solution is UPS Signature Required it seems to me.

[yngpunk]

Seeking the collective wisdom of the forum on opening a dispute with USPS. I had been getting rid of some items, and shipped something to someone on the forum. I used USPS Priority Mail, which includes insurance and delivery confirmation.

Buyer lives in a multi-story apartment. There's no front desk, so each apartment has a small mailbox. I believe the package should have fit into the buyer's mailbox, and the USPS website does claim that the package was delivered last week to the mailbox (and yes, they specifically said to mailbox).

The buyer, however, reports that he hasn't received the item. He said that there have been a lot of problems with USPS delivery, and that he was told that a lot of temp workers take this route. I called the property management company, who confirmed that tenants have had a lot of trouble with USPS delivery in the past.*

I have opened a dispute with the USPS, online. I'm concerned that because their system claims that the package was delivered, they may not be willing or able to do much. Any other advice? Any similar experiences?

Lessons learned: ask if the buyer prefers a specific carrier. Not sure how well signature confirmation would work in this situation, but that's an option - however, the Postal worker may simply ask the first person they see to sign for it. I've signed for packages from various carriers before on behalf of the downstairs neighbors in the duplex we lived in before, and while I was honest, I suppose you can't guarantee everyone in your building will be.

* If the counterparty to the transaction is reading this - I'm not trying to stalk you, but you did leave me your address, so I did check it up so I could understand the situation better. I found an old listing on Zillow for an apartment in your building by the property management company. As a former President said, trust but verify.

While a huge pain, recipient should go to their post office and complain to a supervisor (apparently only a "supervisor" can handle these issues and not the regular person who staffs the counter) that even though the package shows delivered, they never received it. Often times, said supervisor can do a deeper search on the status of the package, and many times the package eventually gets delivered. I've had packages delivered a block over, or the driver couldn't find the address, but still marked it delivered. I find filing complaints online with USPS is worthless. You really need to go to your delivering post office in person and complain and often times the package mysteriously gets delivered a day or so later.

[weiwentg]

So what is the preferred solution to this problem? Because if it is that there is no recourse, then the solution is preemptive on the deficiencies of the carrier and to therefore NOT use USPS.

The solution is UPS Signature Required it seems to me.

That's sort of what I'm thinking, yes. But, do we know that all UPS delivery personnel, in all parts of the country, are reliable? Because I'm sure we can find UPS horror stories if we search the forum archives. Same with Fedex, same with USPS.

Personally, in my part of Minneapolis, USPS is reliable, as I've said. In Baltimore City, it was reliable enough in context (because there was a person at the front desk 24/7, and they logged incoming packages, and they made you sign for your packages when you picked them up). Ditto DC proper.

[weiwentg]

While a huge pain, recipient should go to their post office and complain to a supervisor (apparently only a "supervisor" can handle these issues and not the regular person who staffs the counter) that even though the package shows delivered, they never received it. Often times, said supervisor can do a deeper search on the status of the package, and many times the package eventually gets delivered. ...

Noted.

...

After wading deep in to the bureaucracy one too many times, we've started taking out 3rd party insurance for anything valuable shipping USPS. Cost is $1.25 per $100.00 of coverage, but they process claims quickly and don't try to weasel out of situations like this...

What company?

[paredown]

That's sort of what I'm thinking, yes. But, do we know that all UPS delivery personnel, in all parts of the country, are reliable? Because I'm sure we can find UPS horror stories if we search the forum archives. Same with Fedex, same with USPS.

Personally, in my part of Minneapolis, USPS is reliable, as I've said. In Baltimore City, it was reliable enough in context (because there was a person at the front desk 24/7, and they logged incoming packages, and they made you sign for your packages when you picked them up). Ditto DC proper.

When we lived in Brooklyn, the USPS guys would routinely post updates for tracked package as 'delivered'--and then leave them on the truck for the next day's delivery. Apparently if (when they ran out of time) they returned to the PO and took them off the truck and scanned them (as they are supposed to) it would count against their delivery metrics. Happened to me multiple times; finally had someone explain the game to me.
I've had mostly good luck with USPS though.

[FlashUNC]

I'd second the scan and delivered the next day bit.

That might be whats afoot here. Or someone stole the package. Either way.

[merlinmurph]

Question: Given the delivery method chosen by the OP, what are the responsibilities of the USPS?
Did they fulfill them?

Let's assume the package was delivered to the address in a common area - was that good enough?

[donevwil]

First off, one can't file a claim (https://www.usps.com/help/claims.htm)on a Priority shipment until 15 days after mailing, so sit tight and get your ducks in a row. Try to urge the (non) recipient to determine the name of the delivery person and call the delivering office.

I've had at least six USPS Priority shipments go missing after logged as delivered, two as the recipient and four as the shipper. Not much of anything you can do as the shipper as the recipient should really file the claim, not the sender.

I was only able to receive insurance money from USPS once (as the addressee) when I tracked down delivery person and had him admit, to his supervisor, that he left the box in plain sight although I had spoken to him weeks earlier to NEVER leave a package on my front porch. In other words I got lucky.

The other five were SOL.

[zmudshark]

I'd bet the package was delivered to another box. Happens more often than you would think.

Whoever has it is to lazy to take it to the correct recipient, or decided to keep it after they opened it..

Anecdotal, but I had a package coming the other day USPS, sub driver, no package. I chased her down and said she would bring it by if she found it. Two hours later I get a notice it was delivered. I knew a street a few blocks over had the same number as mine. I hopped on the bike, and sure enough!

Hope it turns up, as far as a claim, good luck with that.

A supervisor may be able to get an exact scan time and match it with someone else's mail, if they happened to have a scannable package that day, too.

[weiwentg]

Question: Given the delivery method chosen by the OP, what are the responsibilities of the USPS?
Did they fulfill them?

Let's assume the package was delivered to the address in a common area - was that good enough?

Even if their legal responsibilities are fulfilled, their ethical responsibilities don't end.

[gpendergast]

What company?

Shipsurance. Not sure if they work with indivuduals or just businesses


When we lived in Brooklyn, the USPS guys would routinely post updates for tracked package as 'delivered'--and then leave them on the truck for the next day's delivery.

It's even worse for in-bound scans. USPS is the only postal carrier whose scanners aren't connected to a network, so whenever they scan a package it logs to the internal scanner memory, which is embarassingly small (something like 2-300 scans worth). The scans only update when docked. So when the postal workers scan in packages at EOD, if they don't stop and re-dock every 250 or so scans, the memory overwrites and the first scans never get logged. It's maddening.

For those keeping score USPS First Class Mail has tracking fail ~2% of the time. Priority Mail ~0.75-1% depending on zone.

[Peter P.]

I won't ship anything USPS without Signature Confirmation.

If the RECIPIENT doesn't sign for the package, or someone else AT THAT SPECIFIC ADDRESS, you've got a claim.

Ask at your local post office what the rules are.