How do you know when something is 'the worst'?

[rustychisel]

Spinoff from 'worst clinchers' thread... How do you know when something is 'the best' or 'the worst'?

Repetitive use? That would be silly.
Because people say so? Is that empirical evidence.
Bad experience? How long ago, and what may have changed?
Anything else?

Many years ago on another forum the debate centred on best cycling knicks and one of the responses went along the lines of "Assos. Nothing better, always ride in them, and haven't bought anything else for 6 years."

To which I asked what I felt a perfectly reasonable question. If you use nothing else and haven't for years, how do you 'know'. The response to my postulation was a barrage of vitriol and spite for questioning someone's 'truth'.

[I like Assos, just can't afford them. Strongly dislike Michelin tyres due to numerous bad experiences, might be irrational. Apart from that I'm reasonably agnostic, but love my Keywin pedals and think Speedplay is poor engineering heading in a counter intuitive direction, a triumph of form and marketing over function, if you will.]

[colker]

Huh... that´s complicated.

[joosttx]

Forums are about crowd sourcing an opinion. Thats how you develop an opinion about something on a forum. So, I think I said the same thing twice.
Spinoff from 'worst clinchers' thread... How do you know when something is 'the best' or 'the worst'?

Repetitive use? That would be silly.
Because people say so? Is that empirical evidence.
Bad experience? How long ago, and what may have changed?
Anything else?

Many years ago on another forum the debate centred on best cycling knicks and one of the responses went along the lines of "Assos. Nothing better, always ride in them, and haven't bought anything else for 6 years."

To which I asked what I felt a perfectly reasonable question. If you use nothing else and haven't for years, how do you 'know'. The response to my postulation was a barrage of vitriol and spite for questioning someone's 'truth'.

[I like Assos, just can't afford them. Strongly dislike Michelin tyres due to numerous bad experiences, might be irrational. Apart from that I'm reasonably agnostic, but love my Keywin pedals and think Speedplay is poor engineering heading in a counter intuitive direction, a triumph of form and marketing over function, if you will.]

[regularguy412]

IMO, and thru my own completely unscientific observations from posts on this and other forums --- about 50% of the inclusions here are anectodal.

But that's OK, since that's what forums are for: Putting ideas out there and then having discussion about those ideas.

The good part, as I see it, about this forum is that many on here ( and those who have BEEN on here in years past but unfortunately either choose not to post or are unable to post) have a body of collective knowledge that is both broad and deep.

But as with many things internet, one does not necessarily take it all as gospel. It's sorta like riding in a paceline with a 'new' group. One of the first things one does ( or at least _I_ do) is figure out who knows how to ride and who doesn't and then position one's self accordingly. ( I guess I raced WAYYYYY too many years).

So for me, I like to have as many opinions as I can obtain, give deference to those whom I have come to believe as 'legit' and then digest the info in turn.

So if there is some consensus among well-informed posters about what constitutes a 'good' or 'bad' tire (or any other bike-relateds), those references/opinions hold more 'weight'. The next time I'm making a decision about items, sellers or techniques, I'll hopefully have a more well-rounded source of comparisons upon which to draw a conclusion.

Mike in AR:beer:

[dustyrider]

Read amazon reviews? :p

[choke]

You can only go by what you've actually used - opinions of others are just that, opinions. Unless you've tried every model of a particular product you can't know for sure....there's probably something even worse out there than what you consider the worst.

As for Assos....I purchased a pair of their bibs many years ago and they were absolutely the worst bibs that I've ever owned. Like your Michelins, they were so bad that I'll never any of their models again.

[rustychisel]

Forums are about crowd sourcing an opinion. Thats how you develop an opinion about something on a forum. So, I think I said the same thing twice.

nicely put

:beer::banana::banana::banana::banana:

[Ronsonic]

I don't believe in best or worst. After a point the differences are all trade-offs and preferences. Above a high functioning quality level it's a question of taste.

At a poor functioning level, what you can and can't live with is a personal matter.

[Drmojo]

this is the reason most complete bikes are sold without either
one man's (or woman's) best is just that

[makoti]

Spinoff from 'worst clinchers' thread... How do you know when something is 'the best' or 'the worst'?

Repetitive use? That would be silly.
Because people say so? Is that empirical evidence.
Bad experience? How long ago, and what may have changed?
Anything else?

Many years ago on another forum the debate centred on best cycling knicks and one of the responses went along the lines of "Assos. Nothing better, always ride in them, and haven't bought anything else for 6 years."

To which I asked what I felt a perfectly reasonable question. If you use nothing else and haven't for years, how do you 'know'. The response to my postulation was a barrage of vitriol and spite for questioning someone's 'truth'.

[I like Assos, just can't afford them. Strongly dislike Michelin tyres due to numerous bad experiences, might be irrational. Apart from that I'm reasonably agnostic, but love my Keywin pedals and think Speedplay is poor engineering heading in a counter intuitive direction, a triumph of form and marketing over function, if you will.]

Oh, and you were doing so well with all this, too. ;)

[bobswire]

Spinoff from 'worst clinchers' thread... How do you know when something is 'the best' or 'the worst'?

Repetitive use? That would be silly.
Because people say so? Is that empirical evidence.
Bad experience? How long ago, and what may have changed?
Anything else?

Many years ago on another forum the debate centred on best cycling knicks and one of the responses went along the lines of "Assos. Nothing better, always ride in them, and haven't bought anything else for 6 years."

To which I asked what I felt a perfectly reasonable question. If you use nothing else and haven't for years, how do you 'know'. The response to my postulation was a barrage of vitriol and spite for questioning someone's 'truth'.

[I like Assos, just can't afford them. Strongly dislike Michelin tyres due to numerous bad experiences, might be irrational. Apart from that I'm reasonably agnostic, but love my Keywin pedals and think Speedplay is poor engineering heading in a counter intuitive direction, a triumph of form and marketing over function, if you will.]

I just found this site today, not too bad a pricing for Assos. I've never used them myself.
https://www.assosfactoryoutlet.com/

[paredown]

Aside from hyperbole (which I think a lot of these sorts of gut reactions are)...

I'm reminded of an episode of the Good Wife, where they are appearing before a judge whose 'tick' is that all claims by lawyers must be preceded by the phrase 'Your Honor, in my opinion...'

It's funny--like Seinfeld--because it is redundant for most statements except those few 'facts' of the case, pretty much everything that is said is opinion.

But we have gradations too-- 'in my professional opinion'--my lovely wife got to use this a lot recently when she appeared as an expert witness. It's kind of shorthand for 'I may not know this particular thing, but I have seen a lot of these, and so I am comparing against that large pool of things'. Rather like the assessment of paceline riders example above.

The reason why this board is so great is that there are a lot of people with that kind of depth of experience, and it is worth listening to them because it is less an isolated data point, and more a summary of experience. Even so, a lot of people will finish with the 'YMMV' qulification--recognition that it is still one person's experience being summarized.