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rousseau
08-02-2017, 02:16 PM
I go through periods where I can't stop fiddling with my bar tilt. This is one of them. Does anybody get it perfectly right?

http://i.imgur.com/w2Aumgd.jpg?1
When it's like this I feel pretty comfortable on the hoods when I'm seated, where I spend 85% of the time, but when climbing or pushing out of the saddle my hands feel way too high. Like I'm on stilts, or a kid's scooter. I don't feel "tight" with the bike. Plus the drops aren't horizontal enough, so I need to arch my hands upward.

http://i.imgur.com/nEJSfgg.jpg?1
This is way better for climbing out of the saddle, I feel more in control of the steering. And it's a dream in the drops. But on the hoods when seated I'm not quite as comfortable as in the first scenario above. Feels like reaching and bending the wrist so that the forearms and hands don't form a straight line.

What do people do?

eBAUMANN
08-02-2017, 02:31 PM
first pic.
or get bars with a better bend...

simonov
08-02-2017, 02:33 PM
What do people do?

Use different bars. Those may just not be the right shape for your preferred hood vs. drop vs. tilt positions. I like traditional drop bars for that deeper, level drops with the ability to mount the hoods higher. But that's just my preference.

Mzilliox
08-02-2017, 02:40 PM
you need new bars i think based on what you are saying and wanting. id recommend a classic bend with flat drops that you can run parallel to the ground. this will help get you lower in the hoods and drops. alternatively get a stem with more angle to it which will lower your tops some, getting you a bit lower on the bike. i personally hate that shape of bar with the "ergo" shape, my hands never wnat to be in the ergo spots, always tween. i much prefer a classic bend or a nice short and shallow modern compact.

eBAUMANN
08-02-2017, 02:46 PM
personally, i find traditional bend drops to be the most uncomfortable things ever with modern shifters.

you cant reach the levers from the flat spot in the drops (which put your hands behind the axle - which makes the bikes handling awful) and the bars bend down into the levers, creating an uncomfortable hand-wrist position when riding on the tops.

traditional bend bars were from a time when technology was limited, when they could only bend bars in radial/circular shapes...it was the best that could be done at the time...and that time has past.
fine, put em on your 6-8spd vintage roadie, but there are far more comfortable shapes these days that work much better with modern levers.

just my 2c

ColonelJLloyd
08-02-2017, 03:01 PM
I agree with the other comments. It doesn't sound like that particular bar is going to give you what you're after regardless of tilt. You could tweak the first photo position by moving the levers down the bar 7-10mm and see if that gets you closer to where you want to be.

personally, i find traditional bend drops to be the most uncomfortable things ever with modern shifters.

you cant reach the levers from the flat spot in the drops (which put your hands behind the axle - which makes the bikes handling awful) and the bars bend down into the levers, creating an uncomfortable hand-wrist position when riding on the tops.

traditional bend bars were from a time when technology was limited, when they could only bend bars in radial/circular shapes...it was the best that could be done at the time...and that time has past.
fine, put em on your 6-8spd vintage roadie, but there are far more comfortable shapes these days that work much better with modern levers.

just my 2c

Hmm. Yeah, this is definitely not my experience. But, maybe you could clarify or give an example of the bar you're talking about. If you mean Cinelli 65 I can see some of your points, though that kind of bend is pretty much what you see in official Campy photos with modern Ergos so go figure.

I've tried several modern bars with all sorts of integrated levers and keep coming back to a parallel top/drop design (I use Compass Maes or VO Course). I'm using 11s hydro levers and they play super well with that bend for my use. Also, I have never felt that any hand position on these bars has negatively affected the handling of a bike that was otherwise "good".

One consideration that is true with integrated levers and bars like I use with much longer reach is a stem length change, but that is really just an exercise in basic math. Again, I don't experience bad handling from the tops, drops or anywhere else.

All that said, I have never been a person who spends the majority of my time on the hoods or anywhere else. I seem to move my hands quite a bit.

benb
08-02-2017, 03:02 PM
So your first picture looks better on the hoods but bad for the drops.

I like to have the levers vertical.. move them too far up from there and it seems like it hurts your ability to brake in the drops.

There are a lot of variables.. bar shape, how high you put the hoods on the bar, how you rotate the hoods in/out, and then all the rest of the bike fit elements.

It is possible some of this discomfort is due to something else wrong with the fit. Reach, etc.. maybe you're putting too much weight on your hands.

I have Zipp bars on both my bikes, they seem to work really well with modern shifters in terms of getting the hoods+drops right.

rousseau
08-02-2017, 03:05 PM
Well, I do like the ergo shape that I have there, but then again, seems like a lot of people these days are using bars with shallower drops.

I actually do have a stem with a 17-degree drop/rise, but the one time I tried it it seemed too low. If I used it with the tilt of the first pic I think it would be even worse in the drops, wouldn't it?

zap
08-02-2017, 03:17 PM
Bars in the second picture. Looks like the bar ends are pointed to rear brakes.

The levers appear to be a little low. Use a straight edge that's lined up with the bottom of the bar end. The bottom of the brake lever should be a few mm above the straight edge. If you have the right bend bar, the tops of the hoods should be flat or rising slightly back to front.....better for your wrists.

For Record 11 shifters, I could not deal with Zipp bars so I switched to Thomson Road Bars. Perfect for me.

David Kirk
08-02-2017, 03:23 PM
I agree with Mr. Zap - the levers are too low on the bars. I'd put a straight edge on the bottom of the bar and set the lower tip of the lever 5-10 mm above that.

After that I'd set those bars aside and pick up a Deda bar which I personally find to have the best modern bend to work with modern levers. With the levers set right (as noted above) the tops, hoods and drops will all work well for most riders.

dave

Mzilliox
08-02-2017, 03:27 PM
personally, i find traditional bend drops to be the most uncomfortable things ever with modern shifters.

you cant reach the levers from the flat spot in the drops (which put your hands behind the axle - which makes the bikes handling awful) and the bars bend down into the levers, creating an uncomfortable hand-wrist position when riding on the tops.

traditional bend bars were from a time when technology was limited, when they could only bend bars in radial/circular shapes...it was the best that could be done at the time...and that time has past.
fine, put em on your 6-8spd vintage roadie, but there are far more comfortable shapes these days that work much better with modern levers.

just my 2c

My experience is certainly different than yours, and has yielded different results for certain! but i do think some of the modern bars do have superior shapes to play with modern levers. just not Zipps.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4304/36129493791_283e1d774b_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/X3D6LK)car show (https://flic.kr/p/X3D6LK) by Matt.zilliox (https://www.flickr.com/photos/41573599@N06/), on Flickr
this for example is the first time ive been able to reach my brake levers from the drops without effort. levers set up literally even with drops (old school), Campagnolo 11sp hoods (i used 10s levers on same bars prior and worked great!), drops nearly level. the spot on the hoods has a lovely nook that my hands just love to rest in without expending any effort to hold the bar, they just stick in there. steering is great from the hoods, or from the drops, and i spend more time in the drops on this setup than i ever have on any bike in the past, surely a sign of increasing flexibility, but also a sign of the right bars on the bike.

just something to think about.

id also be tempted to run the bars like they are in the second picture, but move the hoods up a touch on the bars. this could give you plenty of the drops, but get you the right way on the top too?

Good luck:banana:

eBAUMANN
08-02-2017, 03:42 PM
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.

example:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a75fd0e4b00bf98ff04921/54a7b39ce4b0ac4256e3842b/55d48a4ee4b0a051fa605a88/1439992399944/Skunkworks_Misc_Curtes_3482.jpg?format=750w

i find that a bend like the one shown above allows me to
- keep my hands in a more comfortable forward position when in the drops
- easy access to levers
- maintains similar handling characteristics (to riding on the hoods) during hard efforts

i know this is a highly personal thing, again, just my 2c.

merckx
08-02-2017, 03:52 PM
I have re-loved the Model 65. I had these mounted when I was racing in the Carter/Regan era. I have enjoyed getting reacquainted with them. Probably not what you were looking for...........

benb
08-02-2017, 03:52 PM
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.



Well said.. if you have large hands the modern setup is a ton better. I wear 2XL gloves, I can just barely palm a basketball on a good day. I would actually love longer hoods so I could get all my fingers around the hood. I typically have to have my ring finger and pinky "extended" and my index/middle finger wrapped around the bar and/or lever because my whole hand doesn't fit on the hood... it's terrible ergonomically.

Matthew
08-02-2017, 03:59 PM
Your first pic is how I position mine. I rotated all of my road bars up just a bit this spring. Made all of my bikes feel just a bit better fit wise.

Tandem Rider
08-02-2017, 04:08 PM
Bars and bar/lever setup is a very personal thing, like saddles. I ignore the levers at first, set the bar angle so that my hands are comfy in the drops. If I can't get comfy in the drops I get different bars. Next I put the levers where I have a smooth transition from bars to levers that is comfy. If I can't get this to happen, get different bars and start over.

Seramount
08-02-2017, 04:09 PM
first photo looks almost exactly how I have mine set up...

Mzilliox
08-02-2017, 04:19 PM
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.

example:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a75fd0e4b00bf98ff04921/54a7b39ce4b0ac4256e3842b/55d48a4ee4b0a051fa605a88/1439992399944/Skunkworks_Misc_Curtes_3482.jpg?format=750w

i find that a bend like the one shown above allows me to
- keep my hands in a more comfortable forward position when in the drops
- easy access to levers
- maintains similar handling characteristics (to riding on the hoods) during hard efforts

i know this is a highly personal thing, again, just my 2c.

This is my second favorite way to set them up. and i totally agree it must have something to do with hand size. i have chunky short fingers and smallish hands overall, i could see having bigger hands the drops would feel small as you say. and then also, you can reach the levers in your setup, i love the flat transition and i love the slight slope of the drops on those bars, but in your setup i would struggle to reach the levers. this requires me to set up the brakes in a way that there was some slack allowing me to engage the levers some when descending so i could brake when needed. and there is nothing wrong with that i suppose.

good talk, hope the OP is getting some info and ideas

yinzerniner
08-02-2017, 04:32 PM
I go through periods where I can't stop fiddling with my bar tilt. This is one of them. Does anybody get it perfectly right?


Do you happen to have any info on the bar you're using? The reason I ask is that different reach and drop figures for different bars will have a big effect on hand position variance. Also your bar looks to have pretty abrupt bends, with a large flat section at 45 degrees. Maybe a more gradually curved bar would help in hand comfort when in the drops?

Also, it looks like your stem is a -6 at around 100-110mm length. Maybe a -17 would help flatten out the hand position variances, as even in your first pic to me it looks like the transition from tops to the hoods is angled downward.

Just a few thoughts, but please post any changes you make.

rousseau
08-02-2017, 05:18 PM
The levers appear to be a little low. Use a straight edge that's lined up with the bottom of the bar end. The bottom of the brake lever should be a few mm above the straight edge. If you have the right bend bar, the tops of the hoods should be flat or rising slightly back to front.....better for your wrists.

I agree with Mr. Zap - the levers are too low on the bars. I'd put a straight edge on the bottom of the bar and set the lower tip of the lever 5-10 mm above that.


This is hilarious because I just recently moved the shifters up the bar a little bit. But I'm game to move them up even more.

I know this is all very personal, but something tells me I've had them wrong for me for quite a while now.

rousseau
08-02-2017, 05:20 PM
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.

example:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a75fd0e4b00bf98ff04921/54a7b39ce4b0ac4256e3842b/55d48a4ee4b0a051fa605a88/1439992399944/Skunkworks_Misc_Curtes_3482.jpg?format=750w

i find that a bend like the one shown above allows me to
- keep my hands in a more comfortable forward position when in the drops
- easy access to levers
- maintains similar handling characteristics (to riding on the hoods) during hard efforts

i know this is a highly personal thing, again, just my 2c.
I've had my shifters looking like yours before, but eventually I found it to be too long a platform on the tops/hoods. Yeah, it's a personal thing, of course.

vqdriver
08-02-2017, 06:28 PM
saddles and bars. expensive, time consuming. no substitute for trying em out irl.

Hindmost
08-02-2017, 06:43 PM
Some of the issue is when an old ergo style bar is set up like a modern compact bar. When an ergo bar is rotated so that the transition is horizontal to the brake levers, then the levers can be at an awkward angle and the drops are awkward as well.

Ergo bars used to be oriented like traditional bars with a downward transition to the brake levers. This puts the brake lever and the drops in the more traditional positions.

rousseau
08-02-2017, 06:51 PM
Do you happen to have any info on the bar you're using? The reason I ask is that different reach and drop figures for different bars will have a big effect on hand position variance. Also your bar looks to have pretty abrupt bends, with a large flat section at 45 degrees. Maybe a more gradually curved bar would help in hand comfort when in the drops?

Also, it looks like your stem is a -6 at around 100-110mm length. Maybe a -17 would help flatten out the hand position variances, as even in your first pic to me it looks like the transition from tops to the hoods is angled downward.

Just a few thoughts, but please post any changes you make.

It's an Aerius Composite alloy ergo bar. That's all I know. I can't recall where and when I got it. I haven't put any thought into handlebars for years, aside from deciding I preferred ergonomic bars after trying a couple different types.

That's a 6-degree 120 mm stem on there. I do also have a 17-degree 120 mm stem lying around. I put it on the other evening and did a spin around the neighbourhood, but thought it was too low for me. I may try it again in the next few days, just to see.

So I just went out and moved the shifters 1 full cm up the bar.

http://i.imgur.com/DVle99z.jpg

I'll do a ride tonight if the thunderstorms pass us by. Interestingly enough, a Google search on the topic turned up this link: https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com/bikefit/2011/07/behind-bars-bar-and-brake-lever-positioning/.

And this photo was on that page:

http://i.imgur.com/HB2DT9B.jpg

Obviously everyone's different and has their own preferences when it comes to this, but I'm finding it interesting to see what other people are doing, especially those with more knowledge than I have. Because the shifter position in the photo on the bike fit site looks a lot like what I just now did to my own shifters in the photo above it.

Though bike fit guy's bar has a deeper, rounder drop than my ergonomic bar. I think I prefer my bar because it puts your palm closer to the brake lever.

weiwentg
08-02-2017, 06:58 PM
... Does anybody get it perfectly right?

http://i.imgur.com/w2Aumgd.jpg?1

When it's like this I feel pretty comfortable on the hoods when I'm seated, where I spend 85% of the time, but when climbing or pushing out of the saddle my hands feel way too high ... Plus the drops aren't horizontal enough, so I need to arch my hands upward.
...
What do people do?

My bars are set up very similar to your first pic, but the tops of the bends are parallel to the ground. I can't tell if yours are like that exactly, looks like they might slope down a bit, but could be camera angle. Then, flat transition from bars tops to hoods.

Personally, that works very well for me on the hoods seated, hoods climbing, and in the drops. I will say that I might have asked for a 10mm shorter top tube in retrospect, but the overall position is very workable for me.

ultraman6970
08-02-2017, 07:02 PM
This.

first pic.
or get bars with a better bend...

rousseau
08-02-2017, 09:53 PM
For those keeping score, I put the 17-degree 120 mm stem on and angled the bar like this.

http://i.imgur.com/IiJhC6w.jpg

Not sure if the stem is going to be too low for me. I can always switch back to the 6-degree stem if need be.

With this setup I've basically decided to compromise. It feels great on the hoods when seated, and where I complained before about the hoods feeling too high when out of the saddle, tonight I found I could live with it.

But in the drops I need to arch my hands up to reach the brake and the thumbshifter. Since I don't race and I only sprint in the drops on solo rides for fun, I'm thinking I can live with this.

For now, anyway. I welcome all critiques and suggestions. For example, can anyone link to a bar with a "better bend"?

fuzzalow
08-02-2017, 10:54 PM
Based on the ways, methods and approach to how I fit onto a bike, it is not possible to know how close you are to getting a functional fit & position without seeing your entire posture on the bike.

What this means in real terms is that your issues with the bars could be either the last of minor tweaks to get dialed into a good position or it could be you are still a long way from getting a good fit and the bars are now present in your mind only because they are the last link in a faulty fit & position causal chain and the bars are, in essence, left holding the bag for all that is wrong preceding it.

Nothing can be viewed in isolation. Everything effects everything else. Again, this is not to discourage your effort here as you may well be very close to a good final position. But without seeing you on the bike, there's no way to know.

IMO classic bars are the best for a reason - they don't use an ergo bend to mask or create a solution in the bars when the bars themselves don't create the determinant element in riding a racebike. That happens from the power locus outwards which means it all starts from the saddle first.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/H-QF_b4otos5QJbRXdHRYABkzAMbHfh0onedtR3ipX168qI1nCRr fToNNgk_CceQtP7EUKAhPgtr2-wruhVmijohJoz-XEY5Hlqm9HouP7KZkvskJm0Vc-xVPMPWGCKu9CVNBCXcSA31A6jdWkYN3QZXfe0hT0rzi0kbWs-lFQi1dlPVudMwinGR6qURH6rsBoZWuXxMuN65mtEYm5ZwYOWbo ZR8B3DKjGCz5iP7zqMtqLs5GJ6fNQbz1irGjFxQ9b_3aFBFDDC jDZwHK4jmN4MTIxLZYP-eBZKargE5OmaFACbNiMp5GDyiDvyKA8T-AsyvsGJ8CfBqUWbcMx6uagrmuQsUDUBhmY1xs7w7UR2AZVhfAM mS6RIpzTblkh3nWy7BFJlruKTQxOZZt2cglbiEaZS7us256enL 9BHQCEkqGav2WYO4Zw5zn0_bP3Oi-Bvo7Y2EGqRXysNjO3eIwpAhy7ApxoxTedMm8VD7NclqVOInzff NwuSzB4GelHdvVuHAs9mZ106GWDnJ0pojXbWBOXKBR2iA7t6l0 TO28Ln3t591ES9EyuaGJzCwG5yDPNwkUDaef34ofJ28cJy1zGg wbIQJ6F-HUObR_FcNPPlwkn8AcVJeRiiY=w651-h434-no

Good luck.

Ronsonic
08-02-2017, 11:07 PM
Bars and bar/lever setup is a very personal thing, like saddles. I ignore the levers at first, set the bar angle so that my hands are comfy in the drops. If I can't get comfy in the drops I get different bars. Next I put the levers where I have a smooth transition from bars to levers that is comfy. If I can't get this to happen, get different bars and start over.

Yep, and comfort in the drops depends on how you ride them. Admittedly, when I'm in the drops it's because of a headwind, not because I'm going fast. A long flat at the ends helps for me. And no big humps in the hook area. Not what a sprinter needs.

93KgBike
08-06-2017, 01:39 AM
No school like the old school!
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/H-QF_b4otos5QJbRXdHRYABkzAMbHfh0onedtR3ipX168qI1nCRr fToNNgk_CceQtP7EUKAhPgtr2-wruhVmijohJoz-XEY5Hlqm9HouP7KZkvskJm0Vc-xVPMPWGCKu9CVNBCXcSA31A6jdWkYN3QZXfe0hT0rzi0kbWs-lFQi1dlPVudMwinGR6qURH6rsBoZWuXxMuN65mtEYm5ZwYOWbo ZR8B3DKjGCz5iP7zqMtqLs5GJ6fNQbz1irGjFxQ9b_3aFBFDDC jDZwHK4jmN4MTIxLZYP-eBZKargE5OmaFACbNiMp5GDyiDvyKA8T-AsyvsGJ8CfBqUWbcMx6uagrmuQsUDUBhmY1xs7w7UR2AZVhfAM mS6RIpzTblkh3nWy7BFJlruKTQxOZZt2cglbiEaZS7us256enL 9BHQCEkqGav2WYO4Zw5zn0_bP3Oi-Bvo7Y2EGqRXysNjO3eIwpAhy7ApxoxTedMm8VD7NclqVOInzff NwuSzB4GelHdvVuHAs9mZ106GWDnJ0pojXbWBOXKBR2iA7t6l0 TO28Ln3t591ES9EyuaGJzCwG5yDPNwkUDaef34ofJ28cJy1zGg wbIQJ6F-HUObR_FcNPPlwkn8AcVJeRiiY=w651-h434-no

Matching the bar and shifter as intended in the era of the build/bar/gruppo works out. I tend to follow the peloton of the frame era on bar choice. But I enjoy reading decades old CS's in the outhouse; only for the photos.:butt:

FlashUNC
08-06-2017, 05:29 PM
I find the notchiness of the transition from hood to bar ideal for how I ride on the hoods, which is more Hinault (palm resting on the outside, notch of the thumb over the top, fingers underneath) than Froome. Feel like that non-flat transition gives me more hand positions on the hoods too.

Haaaaate the flat transition.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BaogDQBvUZE/UPwEfuMfGOI/AAAAAAAAZo0/96zZrzQCE-o/s1600/Bernard_Hinault_%2526_Laurent_Fignon.jpg


https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1680/24956099662_f842562e42_b.jpg

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4423/35556363624_414526560c_b.jpg

rousseau
09-12-2017, 11:55 PM
Further to this, I ended up moving my saddle back almost 1 cm and swapping out the 120 mm stem for a 100 mm stem while maintaining a slightly raised (i.e. non-horizontal) shifter position on the bar. So, essentially like in post 24 (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=2213338&postcount=24), save for a shorter stem.

http://i.imgur.com/5aAqCDr.jpg

I think I've got my saddle in a better position now. I think I had it too far forward. With 1 cm back on the saddle and 2 cm back on the bar I've decreased my reach by 1 cm, and it has made quite a difference in how the bikes feels. It handles a lot better with the shorter stem, plus I'm not as stretched out, so I feel more confident.

So that's the fit for now.

rousseau
09-26-2017, 10:10 PM
Moving my saddle back 1 cm and going for a shorter stem seemed like the right fit for me, but lately I've been having some pain in whatever muscle is at the front of the legs right up top there close to the hips. Not the quads. I've noticed that I am indeed recruiting this muscle more in my stroke.

I honestly thought I'd got the bike set up right for me, but does this sound like the saddle might be too far back?

ERK55
09-27-2017, 12:54 AM
i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.

example:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a75fd0e4b00bf98ff04921/54a7b39ce4b0ac4256e3842b/55d48a4ee4b0a051fa605a88/1439992399944/Skunkworks_Misc_Curtes_3482.jpg?format=750w


i find that a bend like the one shown above allows me to
- keep my hands in a more comfortable forward position when in the drops
- easy access to levers
- maintains similar handling characteristics (to riding on the hoods) during hard efforts

i know this is a highly personal thing, again, just my 2c.

Agreed.
To me, this is about the perfect setup.

Tandem Rider
09-27-2017, 08:44 AM
Moving my saddle back 1 cm and going for a shorter stem seemed like the right fit for me, but lately I've been having some pain in whatever muscle is at the front of the legs right up top there close to the hips. Not the quads. I've noticed that I am indeed recruiting this muscle more in my stroke.

I honestly thought I'd got the bike set up right for me, but does this sound like the saddle might be too far back?

It sounds like the muscles recruited to actually raise the knee up and over the top of the pedal stroke. If this is correct, the fix is pretty simple. Do what I call "one leggers" every day. Start the drill by riding with moderate resistance at about 50-60 rpm, unclip first 1 leg, ride 1 minute. Reclip without coasting, ride using both legs. Unclip the other leg, ride 1 minute, reclip, ride another minute. repeat 4 times. Everyone I know who has had pain where you described has found relief this way. I repeat it once a week just for maintenance and have had no repeat flare ups.

rousseau
09-27-2017, 12:55 PM
It sounds like the muscles recruited to actually raise the knee up and over the top of the pedal stroke. If this is correct, the fix is pretty simple. Do what I call "one leggers" every day. Start the drill by riding with moderate resistance at about 50-60 rpm, unclip first 1 leg, ride 1 minute. Reclip without coasting, ride using both legs. Unclip the other leg, ride 1 minute, reclip, ride another minute. repeat 4 times. Everyone I know who has had pain where you described has found relief this way. I repeat it once a week just for maintenance and have had no repeat flare ups.
Thanks for the response on this, I will try this. I'm also interested in the possible reason that this has happened in the first place. I've never experienced something this kind of pain before.

I'm wondering about two possibilities:

1. I moved my saddle back 1 cm. The pain coincides with this.
2. I rode a bit less in August, but resumed riding more in September.

I can't help but wonder if it's more due to the fore-aft saddle adjustment. Does it not sound like I've changed the mechanics of my pedal stroke in a way to increase recruitment of the muscle to raise the knee as you say?

NHAero
09-27-2017, 03:44 PM
which bars are these?
thanks

i think maybe hand size has something to do with this...as my hands do not fit into the front lower part of a traditional bend drop (where they need to be to grab levers) AT ALL...i can do it, but it is very VERY uncomfortable.

personally, i like the tops of my bars to transition perfectly into the brake lever hood, FLAT...like, no downward bend and THEN the lever...bar extends out from the stem, bends forward and straight to lever hood, THEN bends downward.

example:

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/54a75fd0e4b00bf98ff04921/54a7b39ce4b0ac4256e3842b/55d48a4ee4b0a051fa605a88/1439992399944/Skunkworks_Misc_Curtes_3482.jpg?format=750w

i find that a bend like the one shown above allows me to
- keep my hands in a more comfortable forward position when in the drops
- easy access to levers
- maintains similar handling characteristics (to riding on the hoods) during hard efforts

i know this is a highly personal thing, again, just my 2c.

Peter P.
09-27-2017, 07:10 PM
I'm late to this thread, but to answer the OP's question; you are not alone in finding it hard to set up a bar/lever position that satisfies everything.

I think you'll go mad and broke trying to get it perfect.

alexandrumarian
09-30-2017, 04:22 AM
My first bike came with compact bars (Canyon) and when I upgraded to carbon I looked to a very similar shape and size, found it in Fizik chameleon. I'm not sure I could ever get used to that old-school scooped type of hood transition as I have a very heavy/large upper body and have to put my weight on the palm and wrist (wrist slightly bent) too not just the thumb-index connection. Pic is slightly distorted making things look crowded in comparison to Baumann's example but anyway, stem is 110, reach 85, drop 135. Brakes are very very slightly raised up from dead perpendicular.

weisan
09-30-2017, 07:34 AM
A lot of this is personal preference but you probably won't go as high as I do.

http://alicehui.com/bike/RS/rs.jpg

oldpotatoe
09-30-2017, 07:36 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BaogDQBvUZE/UPwEfuMfGOI/AAAAAAAAZo0/96zZrzQCE-o/s1600/Bernard_Hinault_%2526_Laurent_Fignon.jpg

[/QUOTE]

What an awesome pic!!!!

oldpotatoe
09-30-2017, 09:38 AM
A lot of this is personal preference but you probably won't go as high as I do.

http://alicehui.com/bike/RS/rs.jpg

With or without the pink basket?:eek::confused::rolleyes:

Mzilliox
09-30-2017, 10:12 AM
With or without the pink basket?:eek::confused::rolleyes:

seriously, just sell me this already so it can be treated properly:banana:

Ti Designs
09-30-2017, 11:29 AM
Not enough information.

You thought I was gonna say "learn how to ride"...

I am.

Where your bars are should have nothing to do with your position, your position on the bike should be based on the saddle to pedal relationship, like everything else you do in life (ignore this if you walk down the street on your hands or support your upper body on your keyboard). So where your bars need to be is just based on where your hands wind up with your arms relaxed - that changes with resistance on pedals and where your center of gravity is. I explain the positions on the bar from tops to hoods as this almost horizontal adjustment that moves the center of gravity fore/aft. Drop to the hoods, as you see on older bars, adds a little wrinkle to that because drop increases the angle at the hip. I spend most of my fitting time going over the position from tops out to the hoods, I tend to ignore the drops, 'cept to say that they're the "scary handling" position. Most people are outside of their range of motion in the drops if the rest of their bike is set up correctly, so it's nowhere you want to spend a lot of time. If you're going to show me pictures of pros in their drops, include a pic of your own pro license

What percentage of riders really understand how to use their drops? I'm guessing it's well under 10%. Unless you've been to a track program, there's a pretty good change that nobody has ever explained how to use the handlebars as a point of leverage. I say this with nearly 2 decades of coaching experience. When I teach a rider how to sprint, two things happen: 1) they spend the rest of the ride darting away, because there really is that much leverage and power to be gained. 2) they notice a bruise on their arm 3-4" behind the thumb. That's where they hit the handlebars. They've just learned the first thing they need to know about setting up the bars (other than that horizontal adjustment across the top).

So my answer is learn how to ride, with a good reason. You're asking about a tool, or at least the handle of a tool. You're getting all kinds of responses which may be good or may be total crap. If you don't know how to use the tool, you can't make effective use out of any of this.

OtayBW
09-30-2017, 04:24 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BaogDQBvUZE/UPwEfuMfGOI/AAAAAAAAZo0/96zZrzQCE-o/s1600/Bernard_Hinault_%2526_Laurent_Fignon.jpg



What an awesome pic!!!![/QUOTE]


They're obviously climbing. Small ring, one gear left to go for Hinault, and which way is he shifting: up or down? Yep - this is a great pic!

rousseau
10-03-2017, 04:18 PM
Moving my saddle back 1 cm and going for a shorter stem seemed like the right fit for me, but lately I've been having some pain in whatever muscle is at the front of the legs right up top there close to the hips. Not the quads. I've noticed that I am indeed recruiting this muscle more in my stroke.

I honestly thought I'd got the bike set up right for me, but does this sound like the saddle might be too far back?

It sounds like the muscles recruited to actually raise the knee up and over the top of the pedal stroke. If this is correct, the fix is pretty simple. Do what I call "one leggers" every day. Start the drill by riding with moderate resistance at about 50-60 rpm, unclip first 1 leg, ride 1 minute. Reclip without coasting, ride using both legs. Unclip the other leg, ride 1 minute, reclip, ride another minute. repeat 4 times. Everyone I know who has had pain where you described has found relief this way. I repeat it once a week just for maintenance and have had no repeat flare ups.

Thanks for the response on this, I will try this. I'm also interested in the possible reason that this has happened in the first place. I've never experienced something this kind of pain before.

I'm wondering about two possibilities:

1. I moved my saddle back 1 cm. The pain coincides with this.
2. I rode a bit less in August, but resumed riding more in September.

I can't help but wonder if it's more due to the fore-aft saddle adjustment. Does it not sound like I've changed the mechanics of my pedal stroke in a way to increase recruitment of the muscle to raise the knee as you say?

For future reference, I've found the answer to my hip flexor pain: my saddle was too high. I raised it by 5 mm this past summer for some stupid reason, like I seem to do every year, and where in the past I would get toe numbness, this year it was hip flexor pain.

So I've lowered it back down and moved it forward by 5 mm or so, and the hip flexor pain is gone, just like that.

D'oh! So what started out as an issue about bar tilt drifted toward an issue of saddle height and fore-aft position. All pertaining to the mysteries of fit, I guess.

weisan
10-04-2017, 09:18 AM
With or without the pink basket?:eek::confused::rolleyes:

Sorry, Mary has been "re-assigned" with her duties in our household.