PDA

View Full Version : usually olympic facilities are left to rot...


MattTuck
08-01-2017, 08:03 AM
This time, a flying lantern sets fire to the Rio Olympic Velodrome. (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cycling/2017/07/31/burning-flying-lantern-blame-fire-rio-olympic-velodrome-scene/)

ultraman6970
08-01-2017, 08:44 AM
That really sucks...

martl
08-01-2017, 08:56 AM
usually olympic facilities are left to rot...

not all of them, tho...

https://www.goeuro.de/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/GoEuro-WM2010-Public-Viewing-M%c3%bcnchen.jpg

summilux
08-01-2017, 09:36 AM
Montreal velodrome is now an indoor zoo. Pathetic and cruel at the same time.

ghcs
08-01-2017, 10:12 AM
Montreal velodrome is now an indoor zoo. Pathetic and cruel at the same time.

Yet the Atlanta track was re-located to Bromont. Go figure.

summilux
08-01-2017, 10:44 AM
FacePalm. Of all the places in the world to make an outdoor track, eastern Quebec must be one of the worst. Short season, pain to get to (even if you live in Montreal). At least there is Milton.

shovelhd
08-01-2017, 11:56 AM
It will be interesting to see what LA builds versus reuses.

54ny77
08-01-2017, 12:47 PM
The (relatively) new indoor velodrome is world class. It evolved from the concrete of Dominguez Hills (former 7-Eleven velodrome). I'm sure they'll use that facility for the olympics. Would be foolish to build something else.

The Mission Viejo road course is still awesome, I ride parts of that loop whenever travels bring me back to OC and time permits.


It will be interesting to see what LA builds versus reuses.

BobO
08-01-2017, 01:38 PM
The (relatively) new indoor velodrome is world class. It evolved from the concrete of Dominguez Hills (former 7-Eleven velodrome). I'm sure they'll use that facility for the olympics. Would be foolish to build something else.

I would think that as long as the recent instinct to fleece taxpayers for stadiums doesn't take hold, that both LA and Paris already have almost all of the needed facilities to host an Olympics. Honestly, I don't see many other cities globally that could host an Olympics now without incurring serious financial losses. I think for the next couple of decades, LA, Paris and London are probably going to be the host city rotation.

MattTuck
08-01-2017, 01:47 PM
The best thing for the taxpayers is probably for all the national olympic committees to pony up money, take all the broadcast contract money and build a permanent olympic site (in greece would be good, cuz... history). And just have it there every 4 years.

Moving from one city to another, constructing all those buildings for a one off, 2 week competition is the most inefficient thing I've ever seen. The only people who do well are the construction companies that are connected to these boondoggles.

The idea of having a short list of cities already with the infrastructure and facilities needed to host is a good idea, and maybe a good solution for the long run as well. But, there are also big costs outside of infrastructure (like security and congestion) that could be mitigated with a purpose built site.

54ny77
08-01-2017, 01:48 PM
Hopefully the next Olympics will be as well ran as '84. From everything I read, the event actually MADE money under Peter Uberroth, and was all privately financed (e.g. 7-Eleven Velodrome, which got naming rights). Ran like a private biz and not fleecing taxpayers, gee what a novel concept.

I would think that as long as the recent instinct to fleece taxpayers for stadiums doesn't take hold, that both LA and Paris already have almost all of the needed facilities to host an Olympics. Honestly, I don't see many other cities globally that could host an Olympics now without incurring serious financial losses. I think for the next couple of decades, LA, Paris and London are probably going to be the host city rotation.

BobO
08-01-2017, 02:05 PM
The best thing for the taxpayers is probably for all the national olympic committees to pony up money, take all the broadcast contract money and build a permanent olympic site (in greece would be good, cuz... history). And just have it there every 4 years.

The trouble there, is that Greece is a horribly miserable place to host a summer games and most of their facilities from 04 are rotting back into the earth.

I can't imagine having to run a Marathon in that heat and humidity. LA isn't much better, but at least it doesn't require massive international subsidy to hold the games.

Moving from one city to another, constructing all those buildings for a one off, 2 week competition is the most inefficient thing I've ever seen. The only people who do well are the construction companies that are connected to these boondoggles.

It goes much, much deeper. There is always a significant amount of graft involving officials at nearly every level. Plus, IOC takes an entirely unreasonable cut of the revenues often at the expense of the host city.

The idea of having a short list of cities already with the infrastructure and facilities needed to host is a good idea, and maybe a good solution for the long run as well. But, there are also big costs outside of infrastructure (like security and congestion) that could be mitigated with a purpose built site.

The three cities I listed already have very good facilities so the infrastructure costs should be mitigated to a large degree.

Hopefully the next Olympics will be as well ran as '84. From everything I read, the event actually MADE money under Peter Uberroth, and was all privately financed (e.g. 7-Eleven Velodrome, which got naming rights). Ran like a private biz and not fleecing taxpayers, gee what a novel concept.

Yup, nothing wrong with selling naming rights to defray costs.

Honestly, something big needs to change with the Olympics. The IOC has become much too corrupt and is now operating in direct contradiction to the original goals. I just don't see a medal having a lot of meaning in the shadow of the Favelas, knowing that nearly everybody is being used by the corrupt who run the show. The time may have come to flush the whole thing.

CaptStash
08-01-2017, 02:06 PM
I am not as familiar with what Paris has in the way of sports facilities, but it is seriously hard to imagine that any city (except maybe NY) could compete. There is already the Coilseum, which can still be reconfigured back to a track stadium and has the iconic peristyle featured prominently in two Olympic Games so far. Then there's the Rose Bowl which seats a mere 100,000, and the new Rams stadium which will be state of the art and seats about 65,000. For indoor stuff, you have Pauley Pavillion at UCLA, Staples Center (where the Lakers and Clippers play) and the Los Angeles Sports Arena, as well as the Forum. Plus the Clippers are making noise about building themselves a palace of their own.

While a rowing venue might be problematic (maybe Mission Bay in San Diego or perhaps the Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista), sailing in Long Beach is superb. there are plenty of places for other smaller sports like archery and shooting, and nowadays you can build a temporary pool that is world class. Long Beach did it for an Olympic Trials and it worked out really well.

UCLA and USC could again be utilized for Olympic villages for the athletes. Plus there is also Loyola Marymount in Inglewood, and Pepperdine in Malibu for additional dorm housing.

In short, L.A. already has most of the infrastructure and is likely to once again turn a profit. I was a newly minted college grad during the last L.A. Olympics and was in town for the whole games. I love every minute of it and went to many events. I even go tto watch Carl Lewis win the long jump. I know it's still eleven years away, but I am already excited about it.

CaptStash....

martl
08-01-2017, 03:05 PM
Hopefully the next Olympics will be as well ran as '84. From everything I read, the event actually MADE money under Peter Uberroth, and was all privately financed


No chance, as the IOC (as well as the FIFA) made an art out of finding ways to suck every penny revenue out of the event, and the hosting country.

As long as there are countries/cities willing to bend over for them, this is not gonna change.

cadence90
08-01-2017, 03:07 PM
While a rowing venue might be problematic (maybe Mission Bay in San Diego or perhaps the Olympic Training Center in Chula Vista)....They could easily just use Lake Casitas again.

Unless there is a disaster of some kind, or some added and very venue-specific new sport, I don't think that LA will need a single new facility.

CaptStash
08-01-2017, 03:30 PM
They could easily just use Lake Casitas again.

Unless there is a disaster of some kind, or some added and very venue-specific new sport, I don't think that LA will need a single new facility.

I just Googled it. They were originally planning on Casitas (which until recently didn't have enough water), but have switched over to Lake Perris out by riverside. Sounds nice.

And yes, LA84 made oodles of money which all went in to the LA Olympic Foundation and continues to fund youth sports. They made the original grant that started the junior crew at my old rowing club in Long Beach. Anita de Frantz, who was a rower, ran the foundation for many years, and is a lifetime member of the IOC.

CaptStash....

Look585
08-01-2017, 03:36 PM
I don't think that LA will need a single new facility.

Hopefully they can resurface the velodrome and perhaps smooth out the transitions up near the rail in turn 2&4. A tunnel from the infield to the bathrooms that doesn't route riders out through the parking lot would be really cool as well. :hello:

cadence90
08-01-2017, 03:49 PM
I just Googled it. They were originally planning on Casitas (which until recently didn't have enough water), but have switched over to Lake Perris out by riverside. Sounds nice.

And yes, LA84 made oodles of money which all went in to the LA Olympic Foundation and continues to fund youth sports. They made the original grant that started the junior crew at my old rowing club in Long Beach. Anita de Frantz, who was a rower, ran the foundation for many years, and is a lifetime member of the IOC.

CaptStash....
Wow, Lake Perris? It will be hotter than Hades out there.
AdF seems like an amazing person.

Hopefully they can resurface the velodrome and perhaps smooth out the transitions up near the rail in turn 2&4. A tunnel from the infield to the bathrooms that doesn't route riders out through the parking lot would be really cool as well. :hello:
That missing tunnel is the #1 bone of contention re: the velodrome. I may be wrong but I think budget cuts during the initial construction nixed it? I suppose that they will make the necessary improvements/revisions for 2028.

xvxax
08-01-2017, 06:52 PM
i was just in germany and we visited the summer olympic stadium. It's fairly well maintained but the issue is that the venue is almost impossible to utilize and is overbuilt for basically any event they could use it for. So basically there's usually nothing happening there, or a few events a year at most.

martl
08-02-2017, 01:34 AM
i was just in germany and we visited the summer olympic stadium. It's fairly well maintained but the issue is that the venue is almost impossible to utilize and is overbuilt for basically any event they could use it for. So basically there's usually nothing happening there, or a few events a year at most.

i assume you mean the Munich area? (there is one in Berlin, too ;) ). Half-true; The *Stadium* is in a bit of a limbo but was used for 30 years by both of Munichs pro football teams, which is a better after-games utilization than any other olympic stadium i believe. Since 2006, it is mainly used for other events like open air concerts and the like. It currently undergoes a re-build for close to 100Mio €.

The rest of the venues are very much in use for sports and cultural events, the whole area is a popular park for munichians and visitors.

About Los Angeles, the problem with Re-using older venues is that the demands for visitor comforts (lounges etc.) have risen dramatically, as have safety requirements.

Louis
08-02-2017, 01:42 AM
the demands for visitor comforts (lounges etc.) have risen dramatically

Visitors? Isn't that a euphemism for deep-pocketed corporate sponsors who expect to be treated like royalty?

Llewellyn
08-02-2017, 04:46 AM
The best thing for the taxpayers is probably for all the national olympic committees to pony up money, take all the broadcast contract money and build a permanent olympic site (in greece would be good, cuz... history). And just have it there every 4 years.

Moving from one city to another, constructing all those buildings for a one off, 2 week competition is the most inefficient thing I've ever seen. The only people who do well are the construction companies that are connected to these boondoggles.

The idea of having a short list of cities already with the infrastructure and facilities needed to host is a good idea, and maybe a good solution for the long run as well. But, there are also big costs outside of infrastructure (like security and congestion) that could be mitigated with a purpose built site.


But if you do that then the IOC runs the risk of having the corruption gravy train drying up..............can't have that :eek:

oldpotatoe
08-02-2017, 07:35 AM
China

livingminimal
08-02-2017, 07:48 AM
IOC is organized crime.

I haven't seen a plan, other than lining the pockets of already rich people (by virtue of paying substandard wages for all the "jobs created" by the olympics), that shows how the income from the olympics will benefit LA. It won't create affordable housing, unless they turn over units from whatever athletes village they build into utilitarian housing...but theres a buck to be made from having them be premiere lofts or something Im sure, so that idea is probably out.

Not saying a plan doesn't exist, but I haven't seen it, and we have a very serious housing crisis here in LA, and they've spent a lot of time and money courting the olympics, so what's the end game to benefit the actual citizens that live and work here? Additional minimum wage jobs, or temporary jobs, are not the solution to the current state of affairs.

livingminimal
08-02-2017, 07:49 AM
The best thing for the taxpayers is probably for all the national olympic committees to pony up money, take all the broadcast contract money and build a permanent olympic site (in greece would be good, cuz... history). And just have it there every 4 years..

If you want to have an ethical, sustainable olympic program, this is definitely the best route to go.

Unfortunately the IOC makes Sep Blatter and FIFA look like innocent schoolboys.

martl
08-03-2017, 01:42 AM
Visitors? Isn't that a euphemism for deep-pocketed corporate sponsors who expect to be treated like royalty?

If you want to have an ethical, sustainable olympic program, this is definitely the best route to go.

Unfortunately the IOC makes Sep Blatter and FIFA look like innocent schoolboys.

yep and yep. Which is why i'm happy the citizens of my hometown Munich voted out of applying for the winter games. I also actively campaigned against it.