Broke-off Lawyer lips

[TunaAndBikes]

Hi all;
I've just slid on mud and crashed on my commute back home
While checking out my bike for damage after I noticed one of the lawyer lips had broken off on my Enve CX fork.
Is it something to be worried about, should I replace the fork?

[Cicli]

No. It will be fine. File it smooth and run it.

[R3awak3n]

there are a few people that file em off.

[ragamuffin]

Broke one off my enve fork when jamming a wheel on in a rush. This was about 2 years ago, no problems since.

[Cicli]

there are a few people that file em off.

Me too.

[smontanaro]

No. It will be fine. File it smooth and run it.As attested to by decades of people who didn't die before lawyer lips came along. :)

On a bit of a tangent, but I went down Sunday when my HiE-hub front wheel separated from the fork on a low-speed turn. They don't have steel axle and locknuts, and the bike I was riding (Italvega Super Speciale) has drilled fork ends, so the friction between aluminum hub and fork end was likely reduced. Still, I probably should have had the tension on the quick release a bit higher. Lawyer lips actually might have helped.

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[Ralph]

There is a reason for the annoying lawyer lips. I remember a ride back in the 70's over in Daytona Bch, Fl, and a guy was late getting to the ride, and was in a big hurry getting his bike out of back of car, putting his front wheel on, etc.....and on the ride, his front wheel came off, and we all watched him being rolled over and over under a car and killed. Maybe he was a beginning rider, not experienced with putting a wheel in frame with a quick release, what ever.....but not long after that forks came equipped to hold in the front wheel if skewer not tight.

So after watching that....admittedly a freak accident to a beginning rider, I have not minded these lawyer tabs. Will never forget watching that man die. And it was his fault. So be careful using that fork. if one side still there, maybe that's enough to hold wheel if skewer not real tight. Check it out.

[AngryScientist]

one other safety feature of lawyer tabs is a little insurance if you carry your bike on a fork mount roof rack. going down the highway at 70+ mph, i'm happy to have a little insurance up there.

[goonster]

the lawyer lips had broken off on my Enve CX fork.

Does your bike have disc brakes?

[R3awak3n]

one other safety feature of lawyer tabs is a little insurance if you carry your bike on a fork mount roof rack. going down the highway at 70+ mph, i'm happy to have a little insurance up there.

I am 100% with you on there.

I really don't mind them on most of my bikes but I do have a set of skewers that require me to remove the skewer end completely in order to clear the lawyer tabs, that is annoying but for the amount of times I have to do that, its fine really.

[Fatty]

I'd keep a close eye on it. Sure you can be a cool cat and file the tabs off but breaking one? Yeah i'd be inspecting the drops carefully for any other damage that may migrate from the bottom up.

[bpm]

Hi all;
I've just slid on mud and crashed on my commute back home
While checking out my bike for damage after I noticed one of the lawyer lips had broken off on my Enve CX fork.
Is it something to be worried about, should I replace the fork?

Sorry you crashed, hope you weren't injured. As for the fork, it's highly likely that the lawyer lip was missing before that crash. Unless the crash really tweaked the wheel in the fork, I can't see how it would have been damaged in the crash.

[drewellison]

For me, the most frustrating part of having Lawyer Lips is taking the wheel on and off for putting my bikes in the work stand. I don't mind them being there on the road. But an inconvenience for shop stand use.

I filed mine off on one fork at one time (no big deal, real easy), but I usually don't any more because I'm afraid it might hurt the resale value.

I should note that I'd only do it for steel ends, maybe aluminum ends (maybe), and never for carbon ends.

[MesiJezi]

Does your bike have disc brakes?

Very important question...

[bigreen505]

Does your bike have disc brakes?

Why is this important? Asking as someone with no experience with disc brakes, but thinking of converting to them.

[MesiJezi]

Why is this important? Asking as someone with no experience with disc brakes, but thinking of converting to them.

As the brake pads apply pressure to the rotor, that point of contact becomes a pivot point and the momentum will cause a downward and backward force on the wheel. If the QR skewer is loose, the wheel can be ejected. Not sure if this happens very often... I don't have a whole lot of experience with disc brakes.

[goonster]

Details here. (https://web.archive.org/web/20120427162354/http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html)

Disk brakes can pull the axle out of the dropout. I'm also not sure how often this happens, but the point is that with disk brakes the lips can potentially serve a function that they don't with rim brakes.

[Mark McM]

Details here. (https://web.archive.org/web/20120427162354/http://www.ne.jp/asahi/julesandjames/home/disk_and_quick_release/index.html)

Disk brakes can pull the axle out of the dropout. I'm also not sure how often this happens, but the point is that with disk brakes the lips can potentially serve a function that they don't with rim brakes.

This is one of the reasons that through axles have become standard for disc brake wheels, there is no more 'drop-out' slot for the axle to pull out of.

(The other reason is for more repeatable positioning of the rotor, which is necessary for the smaller pad clearances of disc calipers.)

[TunaAndBikes]

So, to cover most questions;

Canti fork :cool:
Yeah i'm fine, sadly not my 4-month new POC helmet. Glad it prevented a possible trauma, but still is the living proof of why i can't have nice things.

I'll keep an eye on the fork for sure, but if it goes south i'll get a new fork (or bike :banana: ), but for now i'll just keep on riding it.

[Ronsonic]

there are a few people that file em off.


I know someone who does that.

[unterhausen]

I have more trouble with QR and lawyer lips than without. You have to adjust the QR each time you remove the wheel, whereas without, you don't, or are awfully close to being at the right tension. This has caused me problems when I was in a hurry a couple of times.

[Pierre]

I have more trouble with QR and lawyer lips than without. You have to adjust the QR each time you remove the wheel, whereas without, you don't, or are awfully close to being at the right tension. This has caused me problems when I was in a hurry a couple of times.

Totally agree. I decided a few years back to file off the lawyer tabs on both my road bikes and my commuter bike. I will happily accept the associated risks. I also enjoy the small daily pleasure of not having to wrestle with the QR every f'n time I have to take my wheel off. In addition I don't have to mess around with my fork mount Thule rack each time I throw the bike on because you also have to loosen the QR on the rack to allow the fork to fit...at least with my "vintage" Thule rack you do.

[fuzzalow]

"Lawyer lips? We don't need no steekin' lawyer lips!"

A sanding drum on a Dremel, a few minutes and my inner Knievel can revel at the lurking danger I've exposed myself to now that I have done what I've done.

I don't want or need anybody protecting me from myself - if I screw up I'll take the hit for it. At the level of operational competence to secure a QR, if I couldn't do that correctly then whatever happened to me after that then I probably had it comin' to me.

[Mark McM]

I have more trouble with QR and lawyer lips than without. You have to adjust the QR each time you remove the wheel, whereas without, you don't, or are awfully close to being at the right tension. This has caused me problems when I was in a hurry a couple of times.

Personally, I find that lawyer lips are only a minor annoyance. I have several sets of wheels, and several bikes, and the bikes all have different drop-out thicknesses. I frequently have to re-adjust QRs when I put different wheels on different bikes anyway, so the lawyer lips don't add much additional hassle.

Of course, the real answer is a QR mechanism that opens far enough to clear lawyer lips. I'm not sure why this has not happened. Or, you could just skip the issue of lawyer lips altogether by using through-axles. This seems to be the way the industry is heading anyway.

[Ronsonic]

I have more trouble with QR and lawyer lips than without. You have to adjust the QR each time you remove the wheel, whereas without, you don't, or are awfully close to being at the right tension. This has caused me problems when I was in a hurry a couple of times.

Or the one where you don't have the axle fully in place when you clamp the skewer. Then it slides off the edge of the lip. Don't like 'em.

They'll stay on my disk braked mountain bike, but otherwise, no thank you.

[charliedid]

I know someone who does that.

So do I

[sw3759]

So do I

would imagine lots folks here do that.so do I..carbon,steel,aluminum dropouts..makes no difference..quick and easy to do.