OT The Irony of it all -2mpg VW diesels

[cnighbor1]

The Irony of it all -2mpg VW diesels
Here in CA they settled the VW Diesels law suit the State had against them
And 2014 and back can be fixed with no change in performance and only a -2 mpg lostwhy didn't they do that back in 2006
The Irony of it all -2mpg

[fa63]

Do you mean 2 mpg? Either way, that whole thing wreaks; enough that I wouldn't consider buying a VW anytime in the near future.

[mtechnica]

Am I the only one that wasn't that mad about this? Maybe it's from my background of modifying and racing cars. I would still buy a new VW over almost anything but a sports car of some kind. I just wish they didn't set diesel back 10 years in the U.S.!

[smontanaro]

I think the distinction between the US and Europe is worth considering. Here in the US, VW diesels (or diesel cars in general) represent a drop in the ocean of total cars on the road, so it's reasonable to consider them as a "modded" system. In contrast, in the European market, diesels represent a very large fraction of all cars on the road. The pollution costs of the cheating would seem to be much higher there. I don't know what the status of litigation in Europe is, but it does seem like VW is getting off a bit easier on the continent, despite that being a huge market for diesels.

[MattTuck]

Am I the only one that wasn't that mad about this? Maybe it's from my background of modifying and racing cars. I would still buy a new VW over almost anything but a sports car of some kind. I just wish they didn't set diesel back 10 years in the U.S.!

Sadly, it is pretty commonplace for large corporations to break the law. Banks and other financial institutions do it all the time, mining and drilling companies, too. In this case, yeah, no one was killed or financially ruined by the violation, but it was clearly an intentional attempt to dupe regulators and consumers.

Even if you disagree with the law in principle, I don't see how you can view their actions as anything other than outright lying to their customers.

[Anarchist]

Am I the only one that wasn't that mad about this? Maybe it's from my background of modifying and racing cars. I would still buy a new VW over almost anything but a sports car of some kind. I just wish they didn't set diesel back 10 years in the U.S.!

No, you are not.

It is a nothing as far as I am concerned. If VW had a car I was interested in (that was not designed in the US) I would buy it.

Sadly most of their new cars now, are coming out of that US design studio so they look like a version of the Passat or Atlas. Boxy, boring and the always excellent seating a thing of memory.

[cachagua]

No, you are not. It is a nothing as far as I am concerned. If VW had a car I was interested in (that was not designed in the US) I would buy it. Sadly most of their new cars now, are coming out of that US design studio so they look like a version of the Passat or Atlas. Boxy, boring and the always excellent seating a thing of memory.


Me three. As observed, big business lies, cheats and steals every chance they get. They have to! If they don't, someone else will, and there goes their profit. It's the race to the bottom.

So, I'm a Vanagon guy. I've hoped and prayed for years that VW would reintroduce something like a Vanagon. And what do we have now? A rebadged Dodge that you can't fit a sheet of plywood into.

VW isn't sinister, VW is pathetic.

[FlashUNC]

I just wish they didn't set diesel back 10 years in the U.S.!

Oh they did more than that. Diesel is DoA for passenger cars in the States.

[smontanaro]

Oh they did more than that. Diesel is DoA for passenger cars in the States.

OTOH, I suspect the recent flurry of announcements from Norway, UK, France, etc about the end of dino-powered new cars owes a lot to the cheating of the diesel manufacturers, VW most prominent among them. In the end, that might be a good thing.

[berserk87]

Do you mean 2 mpg? Either way, that whole thing wreaks; enough that I wouldn't consider buying a VW anytime in the near future.

You mean "reeks", right?

[fa63]

You mean "reeks", right?



Well played :)

Yes, reeks.

[mtechnica]

OTOH, I suspect the recent flurry of announcements from Norway, UK, France, etc about the end of dino-powered new cars owes a lot to the cheating of the diesel manufacturers, VW most prominent among them. In the end, that might be a good thing.

Yeah at this point in time I don't think it's worth persuing diesel in the u tied states, we should start investing in infrastructure for electric vehicles imho.

[oldpotatoe]

Yeah at this point in time I don't think it's worth persuing diesel in the u tied states, we should start investing in infrastructure for electric vehicles imho.

Ahhh the all encompassing 'we'..ain't gonna happen anytime soon with a barrel of Dino at around 50 bucks. Plus drill baby drill...maybe in November 2020.

[Mr. Pink]

I'm not happy with VW, but, you have to give them a bit of a break. The auto biz was in trouble ten years before the financial crash, and after that, was literally in survival mode. There has been too much capacity for a long time. Already generous sovereign supports morphed quickly into bailouts. 2008 should have cleared out of few international major auto manufacturers, but, that's politically impossible to allow these days, where ever there are large auto plants and suppliers. VW did what was necessary, I guess, and, hey, just like the banks, the damage after theiy were found out is fairly minimal, compared to, well, death.
Funny, though, It's something when you find out what really is going on in the world. For years I would read about these little deisel rockets sold only in Europe that did something like 0-60 in four seconds and got 65 mpg, and thought, why can't I have that? Now I know it was all a sham. But, you know what's a sham right now? Car sales in general. The whole auto market is supported and inflated by incredibly easy subprime money, just like the housing market in the early aughts. Anybody can drive a BMW these days, if they have a job. Take that money away, and you'll really see some "corrections" in the market.

Deisel is dying anyway, because the whole torque thing is better in electric cars. Just have to solve that pesky battery thing.

[cachagua]

Just have to solve that pesky battery thing...


The pesky battery thing is an unfortunate canard. It's an imaginary problem, and it's a really weak reason for not developing electric vehicles.

Ever had a flashlight? Ever had the battery go dead? What did you do -- did you plug it in and wait for it to charge? No, you took out the dead battery and put in a fully charged one.

And this is exactly what they do in Denmark. All over the place there are battery swapping stations, just like we have gas stations here. And when your gauge tells you you're running low, you pull into one and automated screwdrivers (or whatever) reach up under your car, remove the battery, install a new one, and you're on the road. The whole process is faster than filling your tank at the pump.

Meanwhile we're wasting R&D money trying to invent a battery that's good for a road trip to Yellowstone.

Yes, the USA is bigger than Denmark, and yes, all those battery-swapping stations would cost a lot. Who's got that kind of money? The government? No way. You know who's got the money is the oil companies. Instead of plowing their profits back into a doomed status quo, they could be doing something , I dunno, innovative... strategic... sustainable...

Biggest, fattest companies in the world, and they're thinking small. Oh, the irony.

[Ralph]

Already happening. The big oil companies are doing their best to reposition themselves as "energy" companies. Whatever direction "energy" goes.

[fa63]

Biggest, fattest companies in the world, and they're thinking small. Oh, the irony.

There is some of that, but there is also the fact that large companies have high inertia, which makes it difficult to respond to changes quickly.

Not to mention the US is not ready to give up its gas guzzling trucks and SUVs just yet. When consumers really start to demand change, change will come quickly.

There is also the issue of the environmental footprint of batteries, but that is another story.

[Mr. Pink]

The pesky battery thing is an unfortunate canard. It's an imaginary problem, and it's a really weak reason for not developing electric vehicles.

Ever had a flashlight? Ever had the battery go dead? What did you do -- did you plug it in and wait for it to charge? No, you took out the dead battery and put in a fully charged one.

And this is exactly what they do in Denmark. All over the place there are battery swapping stations, just like we have gas stations here. And when your gauge tells you you're running low, you pull into one and automated screwdrivers (or whatever) reach up under your car, remove the battery, install a new one, and you're on the road. The whole process is faster than filling your tank at the pump.

Meanwhile we're wasting R&D money trying to invent a battery that's good for a road trip to Yellowstone.

Yes, the USA is bigger than Denmark, and yes, all those battery-swapping stations would cost a lot. Who's got that kind of money? The government? No way. You know who's got the money is the oil companies. Instead of plowing their profits back into a doomed status quo, they could be doing something , I dunno, innovative... strategic... sustainable...

Biggest, fattest companies in the world, and they're thinking small. Oh, the irony.

They're not that big and fat. Apple is big and fat. The oil companies are pretty fat. The auto game is pretty low margin, and the best way to make money is to convince the average schmoe they need a higher profit "luxury" car that is essentially the same under the metal and leather than the reasonably priced models. That, and, the incredibly high profit from thirty year old truck and large SUV designs going for 60,000 and up. The Japanese changed everything, but, it still takes a faurly long time from concept to market, and, mistakes are made a fair amount, too, no matter what the intensive marketing research people came up with. A lot of cars are essentially fashion items, and that's a fickle business. And then there's the roller coaster of oil prices, which seems to have settled down, but, a ten to twenty dollar crude jump leaves a lot of monster trucks on the lot.
If it wasn't for government support, as I said, there would be a lot less auto factories in the world. We'd all be driving Chinese junk, my guess.

[xvxax]

It's my understanding only the newer cars with DEF can be fixed. The older cars that were recalled will likely be crushed.

[hollowgram5]

It's my understanding only the newer cars with DEF can be fixed. The older cars that were recalled will likely be crushed.That is not accurate. The older cars are what the OP is referring to (09-14) have an approved fix by the EPA and CARB with details to follow on process for fixing them at a dealership.