Best race-worthy cantis that won't break the bank?

[Dead Man]

Bonjour mesdames et messieurs

Finally starting to get serious about building up this season's CX bike. I've never actually sourced parts and assembled a CX bike, and therefor am not really up on CX brakes. Easy Button: ask Paceliners!

So what's a good lesser-expensive canti brake option for CX?

I'll be looking for sale/clearance/used, which I would think broadens things up quite a bit. No problem riding older stuff. Don't have a budget, but it looks like pretty much any amateur-racer quality brake is gonna be sub-$100, no?

I'm open to mini-Vs too, but since I've never felt like I lacked stopping power in a CX race, I am not really convinced I need to sacrifice grass-infused gloppy mud clearance for sake of "better" brakes.... however, it does suddenly occur to me that maybe mini-Vs would lend to less hand fatigue from hard braking? Hmmmm...

Thanks!

-Le B

[p nut]

I purchased a set of Avid Shorty Ult on here a year or two ago for $75. I bet you could find some around the same. Throw up a WTB ad.

[Hombre]

Tektro Mini-V, KoolStop salmon pads, and Jagwire noodle with adjustable cable tension.
http://www.jensonusa.com/Tektro-926A-Mini-L-Pull-Brake?cs=Black
http://www.jensonusa.com/Kool-Stop-Thinline-Shoes
http://www.jensonusa.com/Jagwire-90-Degree-Noodle#brm-search?request_type=search&search_type=keyword&q=jagwire%20noodle&l=jagwire%20noodle
More stopping power than canti's and they have a strong initial bite for scrubbing off speed. Personally I haven't had a need to modulate brakes during a race. I haven't had an issue with mud or grass clearance either with 35mm Kenda Happy Mediums. But then again I race in Socal, so what do I know about mud? Absolute bang for your buck IMO.

I like to thing of this setup as budget Paul Mini-Moto

All that for under $70

[Dead Man]

I haven't had an issue with mud or grass clearance either. But then again I race in Socal, so what do I know about mud?

Dis portland CXing

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3941/15644082075_5386ef764a.jpg

[Hombre]

Dis portland CXing

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3941/15644082075_5386ef764a.jpg

If PNW mud is like nutella, then I know everything about it.

[AngryScientist]

Shimano CX70's are not expensive and work very well.

[xvxax]

I've used TRP cantis but I've moved onto TRP mini-vs. The modulation is a bit worse but the power is just so much better. In mud it's important to have the power. I've used them with TRP black pads and now salmons.

[mmfs]

Are Tektro CR720's too budget? I've been so pleased with them that I've put them on two bikes. Can be found for ~$24 for a set.

[GregL]

Avid Shorty 4's with Kool Stop salmon pads. Inexpensive and effective.

Greg

[Dead Man]

I've used TRP cantis but I've moved onto TRP mini-vs. The modulation is a bit worse but the power is just so much better. In mud it's important to have the power. I've used them with TRP black pads and now salmons.

This is the opposite of my theory... with the cantis I've been using, I have no trouble locking up the wheel in mud - in fact, to avoid locking it up, I've kinda trained myself to keep pedaling into hard, muddy turns to keep the wheel moving, thereby keeping traction/staying upright (plus not bogging down and getting stuck). Seems to me like a more powerful brake would just make the problem worse, not better. I'd take more power if I got better modulation with it, but the modulation is really what you need, in my humble opinion

This is why I was so unimpressed with disc, the first half of last season I tried them. The pads drug on the rotors constantly, as soon as they got dirty, and the braking force was overkill. And aggregate-filled mud STILL collected on the calipers..

[John H.]

If you want good and cheap cantis it is hard to beat the non-series Shimano cantis.

[45K10]

When I raced CX in BC I used Campy cantis but they were just rebranded Tektros. They worked great. My wife raced with mini vs. She could blow through a set of pads in two laps if it was really muddy.

I'm not sure if they still make campy canti's though??

[zennmotion]

Are Tektro CR720's too budget? I've been so pleased with them that I've put them on two bikes. Can be found for ~$24 for a set.

I've tried quite a few "budget" models, these are by far my favorite- easy setup, easy adjustment, good screws and fasteners, and wide profile gives a little better rim clearance as well as better ability to adjust the mechanical advantage/clearance to your preference (vs narrow stance brakes). They're cantis. Don't overthink it, although I think that different models seem to work better/worse with different frame and fork dimensions. Some people have issues with wide profile cantis (like the CR720s) on CX race bikes because they come in contact during dismounts, I've never had that issue, YMMV. The pads are crap though, replace them with kool stops and you'll have a nice setup.

[oldpotatoe]

I've used TRP cantis but I've moved onto TRP mini-vs. The modulation is a bit worse but the power is just so much better. In mud it's important to have the power. I've used them with TRP black pads and now salmons.

But the cable on Mini Vs is pretty close to the tire, vs Cantis..may be an issue n mud.

[zennmotion]

I've used TRP cantis but I've moved onto TRP mini-vs. The modulation is a bit worse but the power is just so much better. In mud it's important to have the power. I've used them with TRP black pads and now salmons.

Actually in mud, where traction is slick, less power and more modulation to prevent locking wheels up, and cantis have better mud clearance at the pads and as OP already said, between the tire and the cable. On steep gravel or pavement in wet conditions though, mini-Vs are better with more power on slick rim surfaces. It's all good though, brakes just slow you down!

[estilley]

I'm trying to figure out the same thing.

I ran TRP 8.4 Mini Vs last year and they were great. Crashed out before the muddy part of the season though.

I've since sold them with the old frame and have a blank slate for the new build.

Are TRP RevoX any good? Seems like they're <$100 New on the 'Bay.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GScot]

A couple of Tektro 720 users in here. I have those on two bikes. On one they set up easily and have great power and modulation and never need adjustment. So I bought another set for a second bike. I just can't seem to get any power out of the front brake. Pad distance from pivot is within a mm or so of the other bike so I don't think it's leverage. The bad set also corrodes and sticks on one side when it sees the smallest amount of water. Wash the bike or ride in the wet and I have to take the front brakes off for a clean and grease. I am using thinline Koolstops on both. Levers are 5800 on the bike that works great and 6800 on the other.

I'd say these can be great brakes but maybe not every time. I'll also take any advice anyone has about getting better performance out of the problem set.

[benb]

I have had the Tektro 720s and found them pretty poor and very very fiddly and demanding of constant attention.

The TRP CX9s/CX8.4s are good, have good power but can also be a little maintenance intensive compared to normal road brakes or discs.

Whether it's Cantis, Vs, or Mini-Vs I've always had short life out of them if they get exposed to weather. Normal road brakes seem to get the pivots up out of the spray and last a lot longer and discs have this really well solved too.

I managed to come by the adjustable noodles just about free, the TRPs don't come with them IIRC.. I either took them out of my parts bin from some other brake and/or the LBS gave me a set free from their random small parts bin. Sometimes shops won't even charge you for that little stuff.

Opinions on power and modulation seem to have a lot to do with what you're doing with them and how much grip the tire has.. I am generally using a tire that is bigger (not cross legal) and has more ability to deal with mud than most cross tires so that is part of my opinion on power.. and I'm also probably generally not going to use them in as much a mud fest/destroy the earth situation as a lot of cross races turn into.

[jruhlen1980]

I've used CR720s for a couple years and found them to be finicky and lacking in power.

I swapped over to Tektro 926AL mini-Vs about a year ago and the stopping power was excellent, but in the long run I've found them to be even more finicky. It seems like I have to adjust them every time I remove the wheel. I have wider rims -- DT Swiss R460, so maybe that's the issue? Even with adjustable noodles it can be a real struggle just to be able to loosen the brakes enough to get the wheel out.

So this weekend I'm going to swap back over to the CR720s with Kool Stop cross pads (I don't like the thinlines, they're too long) and just keep my fingers crossed that I can get them adjusted better this time.

As an aside, I realize that in theory, cantis are great if they're set up perfectly. I don't necessarily have the time, skill, or patience to set them up perfectly. I'm OK with my shortcomings and would rather spend time finding a product that is user-friendly.

[Dead Man]

I don't necessarily have the time, skill, or patience to set them up perfectly. I'm OK with my shortcomings and would rather spend time finding a product that is user-friendly.

Word. Thanks for bringing this up - This is what I remembered about cantis before I got into cross, but the last set I had were great. TRP magnesium euro x - easy to work with (actually, quite a pain in the ass to set up on install, but very easy to manipulate/adjust after that). I guess maybe I should just stick with something I know I like and works well, but I'm not finding those really anywhere, especially not for sub $100.

I think I'd forgotten what a pain in the ass cantis can be.

So I guess something just like the euroX, except more available and cheaper :banana:


ETA - well now that I realized they're TRP euroxs, not Tektro... i see there's a handful on ebay for right at $100..

[Dead Man]

I had a set of Avid Shortys on my first CX bike - Jake le Snake - and swore I'd never use canti for off-mud use again. Man those brakes ****ing blew chucks... hated them. Constantly un-adjusting themselves and rubbing against the rim, getting corroded and stuck on the stud, HORRIBLE braking force.. ugh. Nothing like that, ever again plz

[zennmotion]

A couple of Tektro 720 users in here. I have those on two bikes. On one they set up easily and have great power and modulation and never need adjustment. So I bought another set for a second bike. I just can't seem to get any power out of the front brake. Pad distance from pivot is within a mm or so of the other bike so I don't think it's leverage. The bad set also corrodes and sticks on one side when it sees the smallest amount of water. Wash the bike or ride in the wet and I have to take the front brakes off for a clean and grease. I am using thinline Koolstops on both. Levers are 5800 on the bike that works great and 6800 on the other.

I'd say these can be great brakes but maybe not every time. I'll also take any advice anyone has about getting better performance out of the problem set.

Braking leverage (power) is determined by the straddle cable length. If you have it dialed in on one bike, just measure it and duplicate the setup, keeping in mind that fork/stud dimensions may vary a little, but not much. If you want more power, higher straddle cable, just be sure you don't bottom out the levers against the handlebars- but a "spongy" feel on the levers with a high straddle cable= lots of mechanical advantage (power). As far as sticking, I use a heavy waterproof grease on the studs, check to see that the stud bolt isn't too short and binding the canti arm as well. I have better luck with thicker pads, don't like the thinlines because ideally the canti arms are parallel with the ground (90deg to the plane of the wheels) at the point where the pads contact the rims, so adjust the brake pad posts accordingly- I put most of the washers on the inside of the canti arm and still need a little extra thickness from fatter pads (not thinlines). It seems like alchemy but once it works, it all works well, later adjustments as the pads wear are easy, I adjust the straddle cable length rather than the main brake cable as it's easier.
Sheldon Brown (RIP) explains it better https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html

[sparky33]

Are TRP RevoX any good? Seems like they're <$100 New on the 'Bay.

Yes! RevoX are the best canti I've used, even better than Shimano CX70 (my previous favorite), even better than Paul. All great stoppers.

The EuroX look great but don't perform anywhere close to any of the above.

[thermalattorney]

The TRP CX9s/CX8.4s are good, have good power but can also be a little maintenance intensive compared to normal road brakes or discs.

I managed to come by the adjustable noodles just about free, the TRPs don't come with them IIRC...

+1

Having owned bikes with Shimano with CX9s and SRAM with the CX8.4s, the latter is an especially great combo. Tons of one-finger braking power, I loved how easy it was to modulate speed.

Definitely required constant fiddling to keep them working their best, but it's totally worth it IMHO. Being on hyrdo discs now is great for being low maintenance, but my setup isn't really any better at one-finger stopping than my old bike with SRAM and CX8.4s.

In my case the CX8.4 came with adjustable noodles but the CX 9 didn't. :confused:

[Dead Man]

The EuroX look great but don't perform anywhere close to any of the above.

No ship?? Whys that? I just ordered another set o the EuroX

[sparky33]

No ship?? Whys that? I just ordered another set o the EuroX
beats me. I can't get the power from EuroX that I get from RevoX.

[mtechnica]

The best cantilever brakes I've ever used were actually mini v brakes.

[shinomaster]

I raced cross in PDX for several years and mud clearance is pretty important. I used these on my front and set them open pretty wide and they worked really well. Plus cheap! http://road.cc/content/review/14473-tektro-cr720-quartz-series-cantilevers

I had them on the back too but they stick out too far and I tore a hole in my skinsuit so I replaced them with cane creeks.

[thwart]

These work well. Good modulation and good stopping power. No squeal, no fork shudder.

Campy CX brakes, with KoolStop pads. As set up they still have 3-4 mm spacing from the rims (more than V brakes), and when fully engaged the Campy levers are a good 2-3 cm from the bars.

Note the amount of in-toeing.

[rab]

I've run several different setups and gone back the Cane Creek SCX-5s. These have been easy to work with and dial in--I can get setups that easily lock up no problem. Using a good pad and holder makes a big difference. I like their profile. Don't stick out too far and knock heels etc

TRP Eurox ok but the adjustment initially was a pain.
Mini/road Vs were fair but I didn't think they were better than the cantis and seemed to require lots of tweaking to deal with pad spacing due to arms drifting.
Classic cantis and the low profile 90s era mtb ones were good with proper set up although the low profile have their drawbacks since they are a bit of a compromise design.

I really think understanding the setup is the critical part and almost any brake will work well if setup properly and maintained, including keeping pads cleaned/sanded and toed just right. The Sheldo Brown link is a great reference.

I've got some new Euroxs and used Cane Creeks, road Vs, old school mtb cantis and would be willing to sell if you wanted to try something out or just wanted a cheap fix, just let me know. And good luck! Great when they work but super annoying when you aren't getting them dialed. That said I still run them for cx too.

[chiasticon]

I purchased a set of Avid Shorty Ult on here a year or two ago for $75. I bet you could find some around the same. Throw up a WTB ad.this. I'm running three sets of 'em. love 'em. they're so good I used my cx bike as a winter bike for a couple years and never had that "OMG! I can actually stop again!" moment when I switched back to my road bike in the spring.

if you can't find a used set, they're just marginally over your budget, new. esp if you get 'em from the known UK dealers.

also, I would never consider mini-V's if I lived in Portland. here, we usually get one or two sloppy races a year, so they could work. but I still don't use 'em.

[Lewis Moon]

Another vote for ASUs (Avid Shorty Ultimates). I went through a bunch of brakes before I found these. Paul Neo Retros were just about worse than no brakes at all. Every single linear pull brake I've had has had an incredibly spongy feel that I just couldn't deal with.
The ASUs were easy to set up (YMMV), had great feel and modulation and the stopping power correlated very well with lever pressure (unlike linear pulls). I could lock up the wheels on dry pavement no problem. Fork judder can be a problem with all cantis, but I always got it solved through some combination of short pads, straddle cable length, crown mounted hanger (the best fix if you can mount one) or toe in.

[AngryScientist]

Paul Neo Retros were just about worse than no brakes at all.

i have to imagine you had them set up wrong, or some other issue. the paul brakes are THE best canti i've ever used.

plenty of super steep descents here, including a few gaps in VT with some fairly technical descending. zero issues with my paul brakes. all the power and modulation i could ask for.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Mn6pRnj9GI4/WV5jubXhhfI/AAAAAAAAC14/mS-pGFgqRZgawu_aTG4rOvDB43JNIvCagCLcBGAs/s1040/IMG_0947.JPG

[colker]

i have to imagine you had them set up wrong, or some other issue. the paul brakes are THE best canti i've ever used.

plenty of super steep descents here, including a few gaps in VT with some fairly technical descending. zero issues with my paul brakes. all the power and modulation i could ask for.

https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Mn6pRnj9GI4/WV5jubXhhfI/AAAAAAAAC14/mS-pGFgqRZgawu_aTG4rOvDB43JNIvCagCLcBGAs/s1040/IMG_0947.JPG

... aren´t those in the seatstays supposed to be Paul´s front brakes?

[Lewis Moon]

i have to imagine you had them set up wrong, or some other issue. the paul brakes are THE best canti i've ever used.

plenty of super steep descents here, including a few gaps in VT with some fairly technical descending. zero issues with my paul brakes. all the power and modulation i could ask for.


Oh man...I tried just about everything. Everything. I'm a damn good wrench, I have mad Google skills, my wife refers to me as an engineer who dabbles in biology (I'm a biologist)...
I love the look and workmanship on the Pauls, but I never could get them to be better than horrifying during panic stops.
Besides...I hate the "stabbed in the back" feeling during carries.

[MerckxMad]

Another vote for ASUs (Avid Shorty Ultimates). I went through a bunch of brakes before I found these. Paul Neo Retros were just about worse than no brakes at all. Every single linear pull brake I've had has had an incredibly spongy feel that I just couldn't deal with.
The ASUs were easy to set up (YMMV), had great feel and modulation and the stopping power correlated very well with lever pressure (unlike linear pulls). I could lock up the wheels on dry pavement no problem. Fork judder can be a problem with all cantis, but I always got it solved through some combination of short pads, straddle cable length, crown mounted hanger (the best fix if you can mount one) or toe in.

Not my experience at all. IMHO Paul's are the easiest to set up, stay centered, and stop the bike quickly. Dental work is not cheap. I say spend the $ on Paul's.

[MikeD]

i have to imagine you had them set up wrong, or some other issue. the paul brakes are THE best canti i've ever used.



plenty of super steep descents here, including a few gaps in VT with some fairly technical descending. zero issues with my paul brakes. all the power and modulation i could ask for.



https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-Mn6pRnj9GI4/WV5jubXhhfI/AAAAAAAAC14/mS-pGFgqRZgawu_aTG4rOvDB43JNIvCagCLcBGAs/s1040/IMG_0947.JPG



Those old fashioned Mafac style cantilever aren't supposed to work all that well, according to https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantilever-geometry.html. They were basically obsoleted back in the day when mountain bikes came with cantilevers, which were then obsoleted by V brakes, then by disc brakes. Maybe they work well in this application because road bike levers are high leverage.

"Wide-profile cantilevers have a cantilever angle much greater than 90 degrees. The best example of this type is the old Mafac cantilevers, in which the anchor arm actually sloped downward from the boss in some installations. This design is now pretty much obsolete. Wide-profile cantilevers have rather low mechanical advantage, and work well only with levers with a high mechanical advantage."