OT - Snakes

[PQJ]

Hi all. Just moved into a house with a pool (before you share your pool horror stories, please give me a couple months to enjoy it - thanks!). Three days in and I have removed a dead mouse and caught and killed two snakes. Can any of you help my identify what these snakes are and in particular whether they are poisonous. We have three kids and two dogs so this is important to me.

[znfdl]

They look like King or Rat Snakes. You really do not want to kill them, as they will help keep your rodent population in check.

[Hilltopperny]

They look like King or Rat Snakes. You really do not want to kill them, as they will help keep your rodent population in check.

+1 looks like a rat snake which is in the king snake family. Where are you geographically? How big are they? Tough to tell scale from the photo.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/elaobs.htm&ved=0ahUKEwjc9L7LjpbVAhWCVT4KHbSsAvIQFgiBATAT&usg=AFQjCNHThPvOvToTzdY5QWNG-frsQmmiVA

[ERK55]

Your rodent population just increased.

[EchelonLeft]

If you're in USA/NA:
rattle snakes have rattles
very dark/black snakes that love the water and have white mouths are cotton mouths (water moccasins). Those have an attitude and are bad juju.
Coral snakes (ID: "red next to yellow can kill a fellow"; girls are exempt apparently--send your wife to take care of it... :rolleyes:) are a southern states phenomenon. Don't mess.

My neighbor had a pool; you'd be surprised what all can't swim.

[PQJ]

I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. Duly noted re: rodents, though I imagine there are more snakes where those two came from. One of them was small and very thin, maybe a foot long. The second one was fatter and longer, perhaps two feet in length.

[gdw]

This page is worth reading:
http://www.gafollowers.com/6-dangerous-snakes-georgia/

[SamIAm]

I'm in Atlanta, Ga. as well. My neighbor, who has a pool, was recently bitten by a copperhead as he reached into retrieve the skimmer basket for cleaning.

Copperheads are far and away the most common venomous snake that you are likely to encounter around these parts.

[Ralph]

Here in Central Florida we have a lot of snakes. Mostly brightly colored King, and plain black snakes. Occasionally a coral snake.

Any time I catch a King or black snake in the pool or yard, I do my best not to hurt them as I relocate them. However....snakes are territorial, so they just come back. Coral snakes I usually kill, but am told King snakes will eat them eventually. At any rate.....snakes ae your friend....around here they eat rats, lizards, other snakes, and all kinds of stuff. You just learn to live with them....and certainly you don't want them in your house. Do find one lost in garage occasionally....very scared.

[Hilltopperny]

I'm in Atlanta, Georgia. Duly noted re: rodents, though I imagine there are more snakes where those two came from. One of them was small and very thin, maybe a foot long. The second one was fatter and longer, perhaps two feet in length.

They look like grey rat snakes to me. Harmless and helpful.

[PQJ]

Thanks all. As expected - and as usual - this place is a wellspring of knowledgeable and helpful folk!

[BobO]

rattle snakes have rattles.

This is not always true.

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/rattlesnakes-evolving-losing-their-rattles-expert-says

In addition, it should be noted that rattlesnakes do not always rattle when you're near them. I have found myself uncomfortably close to some without them making a sound.

[josephr]

you need a beer!!!

[MagicHour]

Don't get bit by a Rattlesnake - The CroFab antivenom course they use costs something like $100K, or some ridiculous nonsense.

[bigreen505]

This is not always true.

http://www.abc15.com/news/region-phoenix-metro/central-phoenix/rattlesnakes-evolving-losing-their-rattles-expert-says

In addition, it should be noted that rattlesnakes do not always rattle when you're near them. I have found myself uncomfortably close to some without them making a sound.

This is true, but seems to be a bigger issue in Southern Arizona and Northern Mexico. At least I don't know anyone who's encountered one north or Arizona.

[charliedid]

They look like King or Rat Snakes. You really do not want to kill them, as they will help keep your rodent population in check.

This ^

Live with

[Peter P.]

That photo sir, is easy to identify.

It is of a Dead Snake.

[nephron]

Wow just saw this thread
Went to my basement here in Virginia to do a quick zwift workout and saw a 3-4 foot black snake. Screamed like a little kid and ran out. just trying to figure out now if I'll ever go back down there again. I understand that they may be good but I have such an irrational fear of snakes for some reason.

[Frankwurst]

Wow just saw this thread
Went to my basement here in Virginia to do a quick zwift workout and saw a 3-4 foot black snake. Screamed like a little kid and ran out. just trying to figure out now if I'll ever go back down there again. I understand that they may be good but I have such an irrational fear of snakes for some reason.

Well if you do there won't be any mice or rats to deal with. Most snakes will try to avoid confrontation and basically live in the survival mode. Water Moccasins are the only aggresive snake I've ever encountered. Even the rattlesnakes I've been around try to avoid you if they know you are there unless you happen across one unexpectantly. Living in Florida for 18 years and being a farmer I have seen plenty of them. I'm not a big fan of snakes but most are harmless. :beer:

[nephron]

So if I find one in the basement again, just leave them alone? Or try to at least get them out of the house?
Thanks

[OtayBW]

So if I find one in the basement again, just leave them alone? Or try to at least get them out of the house?
Thanks
I don't like snakes, but I let them go their way....until they are in my house. At that time, no more Mr. Nice Guy....:no:

[Hilltopperny]

So if I find one in the basement again, just leave them alone? Or try to at least get them out of the house?
Thanks

Try to identify it and if it isn't poisonous let it be. If it is you can probably hire an expert to remove it. I have plenty of snakes in my yard, but luckily venomous snakes are very rare in my area.

[pdmtong]

plenty of rattlesnake warnings for regional parks around here.

once I saw a rattler sunning itself across the width of the fire road/trail....so that would make it what at least 7 feet? ? yikes...I stayed away.

despite the warnings, plenty of people picnicking in the grass off the trail. no thanks. I've seen too many scurry away and become literally a "snake in the grass"

[Louis]

So if I find one in the basement again, just leave them alone? Or try to at least get them out of the house?

Leave it be - it will find it's way out. Also, it has absolutely no interest in harming you or anyone else inside the house, especially if you don't go after it.

[Tony]

Not sure why but it seems like lots of folks will go out of the way to kill a snake? Not in the OP case, however, I would have relocated the two snakes.

Two weeks ago on the bike path here in Sacto I spotted a large rattlesnake crossing the bike path. I stopped to protect the snake and others as it made its way across the path. A hispanic family stopped and I heard someone in the group yell out "kill it". Two boys and their father ran over to try and intercept the snake with their bikes, I blocked their path trying to explain the snake is not hurting anyone. While I was blocking the snake the dad was breaking off a branch from a tree to make a stick. I had to follow the snake into the grass and bush to keep this family (mostly the dad)off the snake until it was deep in the bush. At one point I thought it may go to blows with the father as he was getting irritated with me blocking him.

[alancw3]

Well if you do there won't be any mice or rats to deal with. Most snakes will try to avoid confrontation and basically live in the survival mode. Water Moccasins are the only aggresive snake I've ever encountered. Even the rattlesnakes I've been around try to avoid you if they know you are there unless you happen across one unexpectantly. Living in Florida for 18 years and being a farmer I have seen plenty of them. I'm not a big fan of snakes but most are harmless. :beer:

++1 most snakes will do anything they can to avoid interaction and confrontation with humans. their first defense is always to retreat. that being said what would you do if cornered and had no retreat. attack. imho the snake is one of the most belined creature on earth. just saying.

[Tony]

++1 most snakes will do anything they can to avoid interaction and confrontation with humans. their first defense is always to retreat. that being said what would you do if cornered and had no retreat. attack. imho the snake is one of the most belined creature on earth. just saying.

I agree, most if not all will avoid confrontation with us.

I would have to say a chiwawa is the most belined creature on earth : )

[false_Aest]

^ chihuahua


Also... as someone else said, rattlesnakes don't always rattle. I found that out when I first moved to SoCal.

[zmudshark]

This is true, but seems to be a bigger issue in Southern Arizona and Northern Mexico. At least I don't know anyone who's encountered one north or Arizona.
This friendly fellow crawled across the path and set up his defenses. He did not rattle at all.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3OpWrYpEJYZb_0JXbBPdwIw63BslhE9BqZGmnioPywuYh0WUQN RQqwOJ40yKuhzBJNn3zjoDRjlFj0zjCgT0dzRNZ-sn_--oW7ONeO4eVw=w600-h800

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/40IMjt_Kz3u4GNHums_5cuZQj39uuA9t4kgZgbovcCl-Cn4SLv_3jesFUSn3ZmY9UIqupJgJk_A7bSIQZKtqb3yMfStRG-CrJXZcZPCohg=w600-h800

[Marc40a]

^ So cool!

[choke]

I almost rode over this guy last year. He was laying in a shady spot and I couldn't really make out what it was until I was about 10 ft away.....I thought it was a limb at first. I think he was more surprised by me than I was by him.

http://www.cycle.ciocctoo.com/050116d.jpg

[zmudshark]

^ So cool!I enjoy seeing them, but I sure wish they would rattle. I know guys who will kill the non rattling ones, but they leave those that rattle alone.

This one set up in a spot that could give someone a bad day.

[Marc40a]

Agreed

[Seramount]

having grown up in the Chihuahuan desert, I'm pretty familiar with rattlesnakes. even collected them during college for venom tox studies. have a healthy respect, but no fear or hatred of them.

recently, a friend was hiking on a cool spring morning in west TX and stepped on a 5' western diamondback that was not fully alert...

snake did not rattle, just struck him mid-calf...twice. my buddy said it felt like being hit with a red-hot anvil. he took two steps towards his vehicle and collapsed. luckily, his GF was able to summons a park ranger who transported him by truck to an air ambulance.

entire leg turned black and swelled to enormous proportions. my pal required 7 surgeries and 145 vials of antivenin. at one point, surgeons were preparing to amputate, but ended up only removing a muscle in the calf. total medical costs exceeded $800K.

I'd post a pic of the injury, but it's pretty disturbing.

[fa63]

I'd post a pic of the injury, but it's pretty disturbing.



You have piqued my interest; go ahead and try us :)

[shovelhd]

having grown up in the Chihuahuan desert, I'm pretty familiar with rattlesnakes. even collected them during college for venom tox studies. have a healthy respect, but no fear or hatred of them.

recently, a friend was hiking on a cool spring morning in west TX and stepped on a 5' western diamondback that was not fully alert...

snake did not rattle, just struck him mid-calf...twice. my buddy said it felt like being hit with a red-hot anvil. he took two steps towards his vehicle and collapsed. luckily, his GF was able to summons a park ranger who transported him by truck to an air ambulance.

entire leg turned black and swelled to enormous proportions. my pal required 7 surgeries and 145 vials of antivenin. at one point, surgeons were preparing to amputate, but ended up only removing a muscle in the calf. total medical costs exceeded $800K.

I'd post a pic of the injury, but it's pretty disturbing.

Holy crap.

[Seramount]

You have piqued my interest; go ahead and try us :)

you were given fair warning...

[OtayBW]

you were given fair warning...
Oh gee, thanks and thanks for the warning...

[adrien]

To the OP; it's good you're asking.

Those are almost certainly Brown snakes (Dekays), which is a very common species. They are lethal if you're a bug, or a slug, or a worm. They are not known to even try to bite humans.

Rat snakes have a body shaped like a loaf of bread, and get big -- up to 6-7 feet. They aren't king or milk snakes, but they are equally harmless.

Copperheads look absolutely nothing like that. Your odds of seeing a rattlesnake in Atlanta are extremely low (only Timbers in theory, and they are largely extirpated).

Regardless, I'm firmly of the belief that none of these creatures deserve to be killed on site. You could in theory make an argument that a copperhead, if properly identified, or a cottonmouth might pose a risk if you have small children (toddlers) or a habit of reaching into dark areas without looking first. In some states (VA, for example) it is in fact a misdemeanor to kill a snake, unless it's protected (like a Timber rattlesnake) in which case the severity rises significantly. Someone in PA was just fined several thousand dollars for killing a Timber. Dunno about GA, but again, this is a very common species. You will almost certainly see more.

I'd weigh in with everyone else in suggesting more familiarity with local species. Link to brown snakes on a good site I found on GA reptiles. Note marking, especially around the head:

https://srelherp.uga.edu/snakes/stodek.htm

BTW, bunny hopped over a rat snake last weekend going about 22mph. Turned around and pulled her off the road. Hitting her at that speed would have been very harmful to us both.

[fa63]

you were given fair warning...



Wow, didn't know a snake bite could do that kind of damage.

[Louis]

Years ago, when I first moved into my current house, the previous owners had a black plastic mesh up in one section of the garden as a fence to keep the deer out. Several times I found live black snakes caught up in the mesh. The holes in the mesh were just the right size for the snakes to go in but not be able to pull the rest of their body through. The first time it was relatively easy to free the guy (gal?) but the second time he had managed to really get himself tangled up in there, and in several spots the mesh was cutting into his skin. It took me about 10 minutes of careful snipping with scissors, all the while having him wiggling around trying to free himself, but I finally cut him loose and released him. He then slithered away, and I'd like to think that his wounds healed on their own - which they likely did, since cuts and stuff on healthy animals tend to heal incredibly quickly.

That was the final straw for me. I took the plastic mesh down and put up a much stronger & better wire mesh fence with larger spacing. Haven't had to free any snakes since then.

[Seramount]

Wow, didn't know a snake bite could do that kind of damage.

my understanding is that some pit vipers can regulate the amount of venom injected...small prey get a little, larger prey get more.

apparently, because the snake that bit my buddy was startled from a torporous state, it went full gas on him and gave him its whole load. and biting him twice ensured that there was nothing left in reserve, too.

[Tony]

Years ago, when I first moved into my current house, the previous owners had a black plastic mesh up in one section of the garden as a fence to keep the deer out. Several times I found live black snakes caught up in the mesh. The holes in the mesh were just the right size for the snakes to go in but not be able to pull the rest of their body through. The first time it was relatively easy to free the guy (gal?) but the second time he had managed to really get himself tangled up in there, and in several spots the mesh was cutting into his skin. It took me about 10 minutes of careful snipping with scissors, all the while having him wiggling around trying to free himself, but I finally cut him loose and released him. He then slithered away, and I'd like to think that his wounds healed on their own - which they likely did, since cuts and stuff on healthy animals tend to heal incredibly quickly.

That was the final straw for me. I took the plastic mesh down and put up a much stronger & better wire mesh fence with larger spacing. Haven't had to free any snakes since then.

I had to free a large boa. When I was a teen I had a girlfriend who was a bellydancer. Some of her dances involved the use of a boa that she kept in her room. While she was out I took the snake out of its aquarium to show my friend. Somehow the boa managed to get under the sofa and intertwine it's self in the coil springs. The boa was over five feet and all muscle, no way we were removing it from the springs without hurting the snake. We decided to get the snake high by blowing weed in its face. It was like removing a noodle!

[homagesilkhope]

Sure enough, after reading this thread yesterday, snakes in my dreams last night. Lots of 'em!

[SlowPokePete]

@Tony now there's a story!

SPP

[Louis]

We decided to get the snake high by blowing weed in its face. It was like removing a noodle!

I think that would be considered "medicinal" use. ;)