Froome - Aru controversy

[LegendRider]

Was it ever determined/reported what exactly happened to Froome's bike when he raised his hand and Aru immediately attacked?

[rustychisel]

speck of dirt on his stem

[ultraman6970]

He had some sh...t going on in his bike, was not shifting. Race is on... I dont see why they need to wait for him, as simple as that, other people says that was wrong but aru did not know which was the problem I guess, specially is the POS bike doesnt work you know. Well Froome could have been asking for water or even signaling for everybody to move away because he was going to fart you know.

That was the 1st chance they got to get rid off of froome, they did not take it.

[bicycletricycle]

Winning the Tour de France by taking advantage of a competitors bad luck is obviously a way to win.

Winning that way does leave doubt in the mind of fans and probably in your own mind.

If winning at any cost is your goal than surely one should attack at-

feed stations, bathroom breaks, mechanicals, etc.


Seeing someone win after helping their rivals back into the pack after some bad luck is something really special, to me it is a big part of what makes cycling great. If that kind of conduct is broken down by "win at any cost" tactics I think the sport will really loose something special.

PS I think that it was a derailleur problem of some kind.



He had some sh...t going on in his bike, was not shifting. Race is on... I dont see why they need to wait for him, as simple as that, other people says that was wrong but aru did not know which was the problem I guess, specially is the POS bike doesnt work you know. Well Froome could have been asking for water or even signaling for everybody to move away because he was going to fart you know.

That was the 1st chance they got to get rid off of froome, they did not take it.

[ultraman6970]

Well, next stage froome did not wait for martin, bad luck... and thats the thing, the line is so thin between good and bad, that everybody (riders) is being naive as hell with froome and his bike problems (got a few already this tour). contador attacked and Schleck's bike got a chain problem and that was unfair, his bike did not work when it should, who's fault is that? Contador screw up uploading saying sorry... bad idea... probably today's contador wouldnt have done that at all. The same year schleck complained that he did not like to ride downhill? and that he only trained uphill and not TT, contador's fault aswell?

And honestly this is a race, is not a nickelodeon movie (no offence please) where they have to sell the kool-aid to the kids about being kind with your peers so you get loved by everybody. People will side which whoever feel is the more in need or which they feel more sympathy for example , Andy Schleck.

I raced.. I know how the thing is in federated leagues and pretty much never a guy from another team will wait for you unless something is going on there between the guys... even a few years back somebody from Orica (simon clarke) gave a wheel to Porte (Sky), anybody remember the problem that the situation caused?.. yeah super altruist nickelodeon movie type of situation, Porte was shoved 2 minutes for that. After that Clarke pretty much disappeared as a rider.

Lemond was shafted so many times by Hinault that those years must have been a nightmare of team to be in. French loves Hinault tho... so even if you listen enterviews between lemond and hinault well... being impartial Hinault behave like an @ss with lemond and all for the yellow. Is war... you know what they say about war.. :D

[christian]

I think it's a weird dynamic. They race on bicycles. They have mechanics who work on their bicycles. Their bicycles are supposed to work. And if they don't, the competitors are supposed to stop racing? I'm glad NASCAR doesn't do it that way...

[godukes]

Anyone catch the fans Booing Froome yesterday as he was trying to catch back up to the group after getting a flat. That was a first for me - never really hear the French fans boo.

I think it's fair to say that no one is watching this tour because of Chris Froome, guy does nothing wrong but dang if he isn't lacking in panache.

[Lovetoclimb]

Anyone catch the fans Booing Froome yesterday as he was trying to catch back up to the group after getting a flat. That was a first for me - never really hear the French fans boo.

I think it's fair to say that no one is watching this tour because of Chris Froome, guy does nothing wrong but dang if he isn't lacking in panache.

Already seen several prolific people on social media put forth their opinions against the booing. I'm not sure where I stand on it. We allow and in some cases promote verbal heckling in CX ... but not for road?

As for Froome's panache, he will always have a special place in my mind for the running incident last year!

[adub]

Anyone catch the fans Booing Froome yesterday as he was trying to catch back up to the group after getting a flat. That was a first for me - never really hear the French fans boo.

I think it's fair to say that no one is watching this tour because of Chris Froome, guy does nothing wrong but dang if he isn't lacking in panache.

Remember, these are the same fans that have dumped piss on Froome.

[ultraman6970]

THe booing? Yeah, but he was thrown pee last year I thing, LA was spit going uphill big time, the bad thing is that yesterday's stage Ag2R was not booing aswell... :P

Panache? more than the other top 5? probably yes.

He does nothing wrong? Oh yes he does... what happens is that this year he has more team mates to help him and is less noticeable than before. For example Ag2r is working for him, fabio aru and vinokurov are working for him aswell :D So when your team is like 20 people at the race the mistakes are less noticeable, well you have to have Panache and he has it.

[MattTuck]

I think it's a weird dynamic. They race on bicycles. They have mechanics who work on their bicycles. Their bicycles are supposed to work. And if they don't, the competitors are supposed to stop racing? I'm glad NASCAR doesn't do it that way...

I tend to agree, to some extent.

A flat tire is a random event that could equally affect any rider, so I think there is a case to be made that the golden rule applies in that situation. Same for when someone is taken down in a crash that they did not cause.

Needing water, food, a more serious bike repair, crash that you caused... well, those are a little less clear and the golden rule may not apply as much for the reasons Christian noted. They are preventable, by and large, and you put yourself in that situation.

Problem is, racing is pretty fast, and the riders in real time may not have the knowledge of what the real issue is.

Also, attacking any sign of weakness is an invitation for other teams to do the same to you... so if you do it, be prepared for the consequences.

[denapista]

Isn't the whole point of these guys having stacked teams, is to aid when in need (Mechanical)? Waiting for the yellow jersey is dumb! This is racing for Christs Sake. If your bike doesn't work, then it falls on your team and yourself for that mechanical failure. Again, team isn't just the guys pacing you on the road. It's also the mechanics working on your bike to be in tip top condition, the guys driving the bus, the staff making you meals, etc.

Froome seems to keep having bike issues this tour and every tour he's been in. The guy is tough on equipment. Do you think F1 guys feel guilt knowing they won because their main rival had a failure? NOPE! Winning is winning when the sport is based around working mechanical equipment. So if someone wins when Yellow is in trouble and feels some kind of guilt, does yellow feel the same guilt when the guy sitting 2nd in GC has a mechanical and the yellow jersey team pours on the gas? Highly doubtful.

[bicycletricycle]

I think it's a weird dynamic. They race on bicycles. They have mechanics who work on their bicycles. Their bicycles are supposed to work. And if they don't, the competitors are supposed to stop racing? I'm glad NASCAR doesn't do it that way...

It is incorrect to assume that mechanical failures come from poor mechanical preparation. A lot of things can happen on the road to cause malfunctions. Perhaps the mechanic had installed the derailleur wrong, however it is more likely that a difficult to see defect or perhaps road debris had caused the issue.

It is obvious that it will not always be possible for the peloton to assess and correct for every instance of "bad luck". The fact that they even have a tradition of trying to do his is what is great.

As far as comparing other sports, it is an interesting game to play. It is true that in motorsports "bad luck" is more likely taken to be advantage of. However, a lot of racers do still admit that they would have rather won due to an actual battle of skill rather than a competitors flat tire.

[LegendRider]

I was more interested in what exactly happened to Froome's bike than the ethics of Aru's attack. I gather no one knows. Was Sky protecting Pinarello or Shimano?

He was JRA and his top-of-the-line F10 with electronic Dura Ace looked after by a World Tour wrench just spontaneously had a problem. Weird.

[bicycletricycle]

I agree and I would also be interested in the actual problem. Certainly the teams would probably feel some pressure to "cover up" problems with equipment if they really started telling everyone about them. I don't think that some kind of conspiracy is at fault here though, I think that very few people really care about these kind of details.



I was more interested in what exactly happened to Froome's bike than the ethics of Aru's attack. I gather no one knows. Was Sky protecting Pinarello or Shimano?

He was JRA and his top-of-the-line F10 with electronic Dura Ace looked after by a World Tour wrench just spontaneously had a problem. Weird.

[m_sasso]

Do you think F1 guys feel guilt knowing they won because their main rival had a failure? NOPE!

You obviously have not watched or have any real knowledge of F1 to make a statement like this. Any true sportsperson/driver wants to win on equal footing, believing there winning was based on a better performance and driving skill not mechanical superiority.

[denapista]

You obviously have not watched or have any real knowledge of F1 to make a statement like this. Any true sportsperson/driver wants to win on equal footing, believing there winning was based on a better performance and driving skill not mechanical superiority.

hahaha I've been a motorsports fan since I was a little kid. My dad has a hand soap brand that he used to be sponsored by Rahal racing, etc. so I've been in the pits since I was in junior high school, mingling with race car drivers and listening to the dynamics of race car drivers and team.. I've been around the sport long enough to know that Sebastian Vettel isn't feeling any kind of way if Lewis Hamilton has a mechanical failure and he moves up in the Championship. In the heat of F1 racing there's no love lost on the track. Outside of the race suits there's a respect for each other and the dangers involved with racing at high speeds. They all respect each other, but in motorsports your pit and crew is vital to your success and each racer knows this... Any advantage gained is a plus in F1.

I mean they want to race each other head up, but if your car fails or your pit forgets to properly center lock your wheel during a tire change..... There's a reason there's a constructors championship as well.. It's to say which Manufacture has better equipment over the duration of the season.

Mechanical Superiority is the name of the game in F1. There's a reason why Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are at the front each season. They have the budget to have the best equipment and driver talent. There are some amazing drivers that place 10th on down, that are immediately at a mechanical disadvantage. Honda and Sauber have amazing drivers, and other manufactures but they're not putting out the results due to what? Mechanical disadvantages in the form of vehicle reliability or lack of power.

[bicycletricycle]

Sure, but all those drivers would rather beat someone in the same car and really know they are the best.

Congratulate Bottas on his drive from 9th to 2nd and he will say he got lucky with the ferrari tire failures. He knows he did not "earn" those last two places in the same way he would of if he had to late brake them into Copse.

If someone wins because their rivals car explodes or gets a flat they do not gloat (well, usually, some people are just ass holes). Of coarse, they are not going to give the victory back either.

Hamilton wants to know if he is better than Vettel more than he wants to know if Mercedes can build a better car. Obviously he would prefer to know both :)


hahaha I've been a motorsports fan since I was a little kid. My dad has a hand soap brand that he used to be sponsored by Rahal racing, etc. I've been around the sport long enough to know that Sebastian Vettel isn't feeling any kind of way if Lewis Hamilton has a mechanical failure and he moves up in the Championship. In the heat of F1 racing there's no love lost on the track. Outside of the race suits there's a respect for each other and the dangers involved with racing at high speeds. They all respect each other, but in motorsports your pit and crew is vital to your success and each racer knows this... Any advantage gained is a plus in F1.

I mean they want to race each other head up, but if your car fails or your pit forgets to properly center lock your wheel during a tire change..... There's a reason there's a constructors championship as well.. It's to say which Manufacture has better equipment over the duration of the season.

Mechanical Superiority is the name of the game in F1. There's a reason why Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes are at the front each season. They have the budget to have the best equipment and driver talent. There are some amazing drivers that place 10th on down, that are immediately at a mechanical disadvantage. Honda and Sauber have amazing drivers, and other manufactures but they're not putting out the results due to what? Mechanical disadvantages in the form of vehicle reliability or lack of power.

[denapista]

I totally agree with you. Drivers want to know they're better drivers than the other guys in the field. There's no denying that. I mean, these guys started out as cart drivers most likely, where your driving skill is everything.

This is a business though, and it's a 2 sided coin. You win the championship at all costs, which puts these guys at odds morally I'd assume. Does Hamilton want to "Out Drive" Vettel, of course he does because the driver is the main factor on the track. He also wants to win based on pit strategy and tire choice which plays into the mechanical aspect of racing. All of those things factor into racing.

[bicycletricycle]

Yes, a win is always good for every one on the winning side, regardless of the circumstances. In a team sport like F1 many people making many decisions correctly are required just to get a car and driver in a position to even have a chance at winning. A win rewards all these people for all the small decisions that added up to a victory.

The most meaningful wins come from a close matched competition.

In cycling there is a tradition among the competitors of helping to make sure that the competition is as fair as possible.

That is a beautiful part of the sport.

Some other sports have a similar sense of comradery and while it is rare and seems to disappear as soon as big money shows up I think it should be supported and cherished rather than torn down.



I totally agree with you. Drivers want to know they're better drivers than the other guys in the field. There's no denying that. I mean, these guys started out as cart drivers most likely, where your driving skill is everything.

This is a business though, and it's a 2 sided coin. You win the championship at all costs, which puts these guys at odds morally I'd assume. Does Hamilton want to "Out Drive" Vettel, of course he does because the driver is the main factor on the track. He also wants to win based on pit strategy and tire choice which plays into the mechanical aspect of racing. All of those things factor into racing.

[Ti Designs]

In cycling there is a tradition among the competitors of helping to make sure that the competition is as fair as possible.


How many stages did Lance win?

[bicycletricycle]

How many stages did Lance win?

Great example, he in fact did hold up for other people who did have bad luck. Ullrich going off road for example. A tradition of fairness so strong that it persists through years of rampant doping. To me that makes it even more amazing, not less.

As far as the doping thing, well, everyone else that year was as well. Who knows, maybe teams helped each other out with syringes or testosterone when there stock was caught at the border. Maybe even in cheating there was a sense of fairness.

stranger things have happen.

[nicrump]

Controversy?

[regularguy412]

Great example, he in fact did hold up for other people who did have bad luck. Ullrich going off road for example. A tradition of fairness so strong that it persists through years of rampant doping. To me that makes it even more amazing, not less.

As far as the doping thing, well, everyone else that year was as well. Who knows, maybe teams helped each other out with syringes or testosterone when there stock was caught at the border. Maybe even in cheating there was a sense of fairness.

stranger things have happen.

Yes. He did and to his credit. However, he didn't wait for Beloki while doing his CX in the Tour. More was said about his cutting the course rather than whether he should have waited. As it turned out, Beloki had a broken femur. He was not getting back on his bike.

Mike in AR:beer:

[bicycletricycle]

Perhaps someone told him through the radio that beloki was not getting up? they got TVs in the car.

Yes. He did and to his credit. However, he didn't wait for Beloki while doing his CX in the Tour. More was said about his cutting the course rather than whether he should have waited. As it turned out, Beloki had a broken femur. He was not getting back on his bike.

Mike in AR:beer:

[LegendRider]

Talked with a friend today who said that Froome indicated it was a "spoke problem." I'll try to find the source and post it.

[ultraman6970]

Oh the beloki incident, Lance did not wait... probably he figured it out about beloki right there because he started screaming pretty much right away, u were able to hear from the moto camera.


Perhaps someone told him through the radio that beloki was not getting up? they got TVs in the car.