TDF stage 15... spoilers

[ultraman6970]

And this geniuses are waiting again???? to me looks like they are eh?

[Mzilliox]

ag2r is in good shape, froome can eat a bag of ...

[shovelhd]

Great racing, again.

[regularguy412]

WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's on like Donkey Kong.

Mike in AR:beer:

[ultraman6970]

OK and you have the f... top 5 guys in that group and nobody is f... pulling??? ***?? They know they need minutes aout of banana man and they dont pull... bag of geniuses nobody wants to win the race but Ag2r... :/

[Mzilliox]

announcer act surprised and confused the crowd would boo froomey the bore. perhaps the fans are tired of being bored by the sky train? perhaps they prefer their countryman? perhaps they simply don;t like froome, as there is very little to like.

[shovelhd]

Or they could be shouting "Froome".

[ultraman6970]

And f.. ag2r chasing martin... WTH!!!

This sucks they had chances today to play ball with froome, nobody wants to win this thing but Froome and martin.

[numbskull]

Of course ag2R is going to chase Martin. He is a bigger threat to their man's standing than to Froome's. They also needed to test Froome and see what he had left after his recovery effort.

Likewise, I'm not sure an all or nothing attack on the climb where Froome had a mechanical would have accomplished much. Too far out. If it had been on a flat, perhaps, since ag2R had numbers but on that long a climb only several of the riders would have been strong enough to maintain a gap over Froome to the top, after which Froome, Landa, and anyone else dropped would likely reform a group to chase them down. Effectively Aru, Bardet, and Uran would have had to trash themselves trying to maintain a gap while Froome sat in and let Landa and others pursue and likely catch them.

As an aside, might not things might have worked worse for Froome if he had been riding a disc brake bike?

[Clean39T]

And f.. ag2r chasing martin... WTH!!!

This sucks they had chances today to play ball with froome, nobody wants to win this thing but Froome and martin.

Yep. Wish Valverde was still in this thing. With Nairo not having the legs, he'd have been animating the race for sure.

It was absolutely ridiculous for the group not to attack with everything they had to leave Froome isolated after the top of that climb.

[Michael Maddox]

Yep. Wish Valverde was still in this thing. With Nairo not having the legs, he'd have been animating the race for sure.

It was absolutely ridiculous for the group not to attack with everything they had to leave Froome isolated after the top of that climb.

I think it's apparent that Froome isn't REALLY being challenged for GC. Perhaps it's the depth of his team, perhaps it's lack of conditioning from the GC favorites, but other than a few blips, it seems no one is really HAMMERING him at any point. And it seems like they've had plenty of opportunities to do so.

Or, maybe he's just THAT good.

Personally, I have enjoyed the stage-win racing. These guys are the absolute HEART of Le Tour, and the reason I still watch.

[ultraman6970]

NUmbskull, the problem is this, all of them, I mean all the top 10 knows that froome will take at least close to 2 minutes to any of them in the ITT. Maybe the only exception is URAN but he will get a ticket with at least 40 seconds, all of the others between 1.30 to 3 minutes.

As Lance says, you have to take an open the Xmass presents when are given to you, right there at that second because if you miss them, there wont be other chance. Banana man got a flat, was with only one guy to pull him back and he was like 2 minutes down... I do get that Ag2r had to pull at that minute but this geniuses (the whole top 5 pack) were looking to each other like for 40 seconds thinking about what to do when froome got the mechanical, in a matter of fact i got the impression that they were f... waiting for him AGAIN... :D Ok reorganization of the pack, Ag2r started pulling, Ag2r cant pull cr@p and if you are fighting for a podium and you are like 2 minutes down like martin, what do you do...??? "ok boys everybody pulls, everybody".... then you were going to have 6 guys that can climb pulling versus 2 and at some point was just one, Froome.

But no, all of the top 5 let ag2r to have a shaitty pull and amazingly enough froome catched them, this was the 2nd gift of the day because before froome was getting drop at the previous downhill... guess who pulled him back... an ag2r rider and then a movistar rider, they can't move to the side or coast so froome have to kill himself chasing, he was at the limit right there. Man sucks be in somebody;s wheel, notice that the pace ease up and then you look and everybody else is like 30 meters ahead and you have to sprint to catch or you are out, in this case today, 2 or 3 other riders from other teams pulled froome down the hill, till somebody came to close the gaps for him. And this is prof... riding...Froome was ready to drop the towel there man...

Then you have those skirmishes in the last like 10 km, attacks here and there, guess what, froome was with landa again at the limit and everybody chasing to each other instead of letting Froome to catch, since days ago and I say since stage like 9? that they know that they dont have to pull or do the chasing for him.....after the 3rd go chasing he was not going to chase anymore you know...nobody I know can do 4 chases in a row at 90%+, after the 3rd one the guy is done. Then was everybody's chances to go because they were not going to be able to respond, actually Landa died big time today and in the flats. But when Froome couldnt,,,, there you have it AG2R showing the colors... darn!

Honestly, f... david brailsford must be Laughing his a$$ out because today sky could have lost at least 2 minutes and everybody was helping F...Froome, geniuses!

From the top 5, who cares if somebody else got time out of froome? they all as a group could have done something wonderfull today... when I saw Froome's mechanical problem I thought that the top 5 was going to look like this today...

ARU
BARDET
URAN
MARTIN
YATES
FROOME
LANDA
CONTADOR

No, the geniuses couldnt figure this out, and Froome eat their head when he catched up with them, then they try to drop him again in the flats... ***? If they all had put at least a minute or two out of froome I dont want to tell what was going to happen in the next stages, brailsford was going to put firecrackers in each of their riders butt to get the time back, then everybody''s chance to get rid off of sky and win the race were going to increase for a huge margin, and honestly even if froome goes 2 minutes down in the ITT if he has a good day he will win the Tour. I don't know how is that the teams don't see that, guy is at down, you have to kick him while he is down and today was the like the 4th chance to do in the whole race?

Everybody racing for sky again today, what in the world? every year I have the impression more and more that the TdF is a fixed race...

Sorry for the rant but this makes me just so freaking mad, and Im mad because has been done before...a lot of chances to stab the guy and nobody take the chance, today all of them as a collective, they were so far out and froome with just 1 guy, he was not going to catch them. U have to go far out you can't get 2 minutes out of froome in the last 200 meters of a climb, today Martin got like 30 seconds in like 10 km? And he got lucky the other guys were helping or he was going to get caught. It needs to be done long and none of the top 5 can do a solo 50 km attack to get 2 minutes... or even 30 seconds. Do you think sky will let the top ten go in the next stages? is not going to happen.

darn! :D

[cnighbor1]

Froomes rear wheel needed replacing What broke? assuming an all CF Wheels

[MattTuck]

I dunno, but I am super stoked that Bauke Mollema won today. Looking beyond the top 3 favorites, there are some great riders and efforts to appreciate.

[ultraman6970]

Probably he needed to put the wheel that has the motor in it :P

Froomes rear wheel needed replacing What broke? assuming an all CF Wheels

[Red Tornado]

If you're attacking the yellow jersey, you're not respecting it.
Must. Respect. The. Jersey.
I'm glad at least AG2R has the audacity to not respect yellow. Maybe their timing's not perfect and they lack depth compared to the Sky juggernaut, but at least they're trying.

This is what happens when a team full of riders good enough to be GC contenders (except maybe one or two) squares off against several other teams with one (maybe two, in some cases) contenders and the rest mostly domestiques. No parity. Strongest team wins, hands down. Same formula employed with success by Lance/Postal/Disco and it will continue this way until there's more parity. What does everyone expect?

What Sky's doing is the perfect tactic for them to win. However, it makes the race very boring and predictable for the fans.

My $0.02

[MattTuck]

If you're attacking the yellow jersey, you're not respecting it.
Must. Respect. The. Jersey.
I'm glad at least AG2R has the audacity to not respect yellow. Maybe their timing's not perfect and they lack depth compared to the Sky juggernaut, but at least they're trying.

This is what happens when a team full of riders good enough to be GC contenders (except maybe one or two) squares off against several other teams with one (maybe two, in some cases) contenders and the rest mostly domestiques. No parity. Strongest team wins, hands down. Same formula employed with success by Lance/Postal/Disco and it will continue this way until there's more parity. What does everyone expect?

What Sky's doing is the perfect tactic for them to win. However, it makes the race very boring and predictable for the fans.

My $0.02

From the period that Lance was winning, I don't think anyone else from those teams went on to win a grand tour on another team other than Roberto Heras .... (and, in fairness, Floyd, but, well... you know).

I've heard a lot that xyz team is made up of legitimate grand tour contenders... but in practice, I don't see that. Yes, a few could be top 10, and maybe one could win a grand tour, but it is not the whole team.

I think the difference with Sky (and Postal) is that they have a proven winner so they can focus their roster and tactics on just the GC. Don't have to worry about a sprint lead out, just need a couple strong riders for the flats. If you're a team that comes in with an unproven GC guy, are you really going to put all your eggs in his basket, and build your team around that rider?

And having your team believe in the leader means they can sacrifice everything and don't need to worry about one bad day. One bad day can ruin a GC rider's chances.

[jlwdm]

Froomes rear wheel needed replacing What broke? assuming an all CF Wheels

Flat tire.

Jeff

[ntb1001]

NUmbskull, the problem is this, all of them, I mean all the top 10 knows that froome will take at least close to 2 minutes to any of them in the ITT. Maybe the only exception is URAN but he will get a ticket with at least 40 seconds, all of the others between 1.30 to 3 minutes.

As Lance says, you have to take an open the Xmass presents when are given to you, right there at that second because if you miss them, there wont be other chance. Banana man got a flat, was with only one guy to pull him back and he was like 2 minutes down... I do get that Ag2r had to pull at that minute but this geniuses (the whole top 5 pack) were looking to each other like for 40 seconds thinking about what to do when froome got the mechanical, in a matter of fact i got the impression that they were f... waiting for him AGAIN... :D Ok reorganization of the pack, Ag2r started pulling, Ag2r cant pull cr@p and if you are fighting for a podium and you are like 2 minutes down like martin, what do you do...??? "ok boys everybody pulls, everybody".... then you were going to have 6 guys that can climb pulling versus 2 and at some point was just one, Froome.

But no, all of the top 5 let ag2r to have a shaitty pull and amazingly enough froome catched them, this was the 2nd gift of the day because before froome was getting drop at the previous downhill... guess who pulled him back... an ag2r rider and then a movistar rider, they can't move to the side or coast so froome have to kill himself chasing, he was at the limit right there. Man sucks be in somebody;s wheel, notice that the pace ease up and then you look and everybody else is like 30 meters ahead and you have to sprint to catch or you are out, in this case today, 2 or 3 other riders from other teams pulled froome down the hill, till somebody came to close the gaps for him. And this is prof... riding...Froome was ready to drop the towel there man...

Then you have those skirmishes in the last like 10 km, attacks here and there, guess what, froome was with landa again at the limit and everybody chasing to each other instead of letting Froome to catch, since days ago and I say since stage like 9? that they know that they dont have to pull or do the chasing for him.....after the 3rd go chasing he was not going to chase anymore you know...nobody I know can do 4 chases in a row at 90%+, after the 3rd one the guy is done. Then was everybody's chances to go because they were not going to be able to respond, actually Landa died big time today and in the flats. But when Froome couldnt,,,, there you have it AG2R showing the colors... darn!

Honestly, f... david brailsford must be Laughing his a$$ out because today sky could have lost at least 2 minutes and everybody was helping F...Froome, geniuses!

From the top 5, who cares if somebody else got time out of froome? they all as a group could have done something wonderfull today... when I saw Froome's mechanical problem I thought that the top 5 was going to look like this today...

ARU
BARDET
URAN
MARTIN
YATES
FROOME
LANDA
CONTADOR

No, the geniuses couldnt figure this out, and Froome eat their head when he catched up with them, then they try to drop him again in the flats... ***? If they all had put at least a minute or two out of froome I dont want to tell what was going to happen in the next stages, brailsford was going to put firecrackers in each of their riders butt to get the time back, then everybody''s chance to get rid off of sky and win the race were going to increase for a huge margin, and honestly even if froome goes 2 minutes down in the ITT if he has a good day he will win the Tour. I don't know how is that the teams don't see that, guy is at down, you have to kick him while he is down and today was the like the 4th chance to do in the whole race?

Everybody racing for sky again today, what in the world? every year I have the impression more and more that the TdF is a fixed race...

Sorry for the rant but this makes me just so freaking mad, and Im mad because has been done before...a lot of chances to stab the guy and nobody take the chance, today all of them as a collective, they were so far out and froome with just 1 guy, he was not going to catch them. U have to go far out you can't get 2 minutes out of froome in the last 200 meters of a climb, today Martin got like 30 seconds in like 10 km? And he got lucky the other guys were helping or he was going to get caught. It needs to be done long and none of the top 5 can do a solo 50 km attack to get 2 minutes... or even 30 seconds. Do you think sky will let the top ten go in the next stages? is not going to happen.

darn! :Dultra...I feel your pain !!!!

I totally agree !!!!

The contenders have had opportunity, but are not attacking enough, or early enough.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk

[ultraman6970]

I was reading in a thread of comments in another place and a lot of guys in france are mad with AG2R for the poor tactics, The professor must be screaming in his tomb right now, Wonder what Hinault thinks of all of this?

One of the commentators was saying that, Bardet and the other pack of idiots that are in the top 5, they lost the tour today.

Time for the top 5 to burn some candles and pray for froome, landa, nieve and kirienka and MK, all of them have mechanical problems next week, because that race IMO was lost today.

[MattTuck]

I was reading in a thread of comments in another place and a lot of guys in france are mad with AG2R for the poor tactics, The professor must be screaming in his tomb right now, Wonder what Hinault thinks of all of this?

One of the commentators was saying that, Bardet and the other pack of idiots that are in the top 5, they lost the tour today.

Time for the top 5 to burn some candles and pray for froome, landa, nieve and kirienka and MK, all of them have mechanical problems next week, because that race IMO was lost today.

I mean, there are two questions... can they take time out of Froome in the remaining mountains? and then the second question is how much time they need to take in order to be competitive after the TT.

I think anyone back to Simon Yates has the potential, if they're on a great day and Froome is on a bad day, could move into the lead. Not likely, but possible, with some good luck for the right people and bad luck for the wrong people.

Whether anyone of them can get enough time that they have some buffer for the time trial, I am not sure, without a disaster for Froome.

[jlwdm]

Even though a number of riders are not far behind I think it is highly unlikely anyone can beat Froome.

The other teams seem to be afraid to take control of the race. Today when Froome had the flat AG2r had a lot of riders in front but they were not able to take time from Froome. And the top riders should have worked together. Froome had to work to catch up but it was much easier than it should have been. AG2r probably did not have the riders to hold Froome of on the flats though.

It was embarrassing when Froome and Aru went off the road the other day. It was like the other riders did not know what to do if they didn't have Sky to pace them up the climbs. No one is willing to try to win.

Jeff

[ultraman6970]

Matt... as JL says... most likely? no... froome will take from them at least 30 seconds from the good TT rider like uran (being nice here) and from aru and bardet maybe 2 to 3 minutes? So virtually you have add that time to everybody, being nice again... just add 30 seconds to the top 10 riders right now. That means that aru is virtually like a minute behind already and today he did not get anything.

All the top 10 riders need at least a 2 minutes cushion over Froome to be able to contest that TT and have a chance. That's the reason I get angry with that pack of geniuses, because froome gave them a gift today... there was no chance in hell for froome and landa to catch the whole top 10 group if all of the group got organized and pulled like hell straight to the finish line 6+ vs 2?. Easy they could have got at least a minute or 2 back, and now froome and landa could be in 7th place right a few seconds above contador in 10th.

In france they asked to Ag2r about the tactics for the 15th stage and the answer just puzzles me even more, the idea of today's attack was to isolate aru and uran, it was not directed to froome... Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa... if this is true well, bardet and aru with their respective teams need to comeback to Junior and race with them the next season. Looks like ag2r wants to get rid off of the riders around bardet 1st, riders which TT the same than bardet or worse, and then fight the tittle with froome that can TT the same than Cancellara in a good day, genius puzzling and naive tactic. U have to believe in your rider way too much to think something like that or know something we dont know.

Then after todays stage and the other ones, maybe this race is fixed... idea that is crazy but at this point, why not?

To me they lost the race today. Froome deserves that win just because of the stupidity of the other teams.