Rim recommendation for someone who's never ridden tubulars before.

[Llewellyn]

I've got a pair of 32 hole Ultegra 6500 hubs that are laced to some Mavic CXP 33 clincher rims that have done years of trouble-free service, but I'm thinking of trying something different. Maybe even...............tubulars!! Which I've never ridden in my life but various threads on here have made me curious. I love the H Plus Son TB14 but it only comes as a clincher. Are there any other silver box section tubular rims out there? Ebay seems to turn up NOS Ambrosio and Fiamme rims but I don't know the Ambrosio hierarchy yet so I'm not sure what I should be looking for. Any and all advice welcome. I'm 77kg and these are for general riding, no racing if that's important. This whole idea may or may not eventuate so I'm just seeing what my options are. Thanks

[marciero]

Limited or no choices for modern aluminum box section rims. There are several threads on tubular rim choices if you search. So you are pretty much relegated to the NOS and used market. A number of paceliners seem to like the Ambrosio Nemesis. I have a set and they are great. They come up here for sale once in a while. Again, you can search.

If you are willing to consider deeper more modern profile rims the Belgium C2 comes in tubular.

BTW you want "tubular" and not "tubeless" in your title.

[ergott]

If you're patient, look for these rims. They are GP4s and note the label version. There are 2 different profiles they made over the years. One is lower in profile, more rounded sides, and weighs around 400g. The second looks more like a Reflex with a flat brake track and weighs more. 11.4 turned me on to these rims (the lighter ones). I use them on my Serotta with rim brakes, but recently I built up another set with disc brakes. I think I have breathed new light into this style rim. No worry about the narrow brake track. Less extreme dish with rear wheels with a rotor on the left. They are perfect.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Wheels/i-NgzPZTS/0/04c7cd82/XL/20170624_133326~2-XL.jpg

I have a personal stash tucked away that I've collected over the years.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Wheels/i-BJLZVmp/1/a1965219/L/GP4rimcollection-L.jpg

[oldpotatoe]

If you're patient, look for these rims. They are GP4s and note the label version. There are 2 different profiles they made over the years. One is lower in profile, more rounded sides, and weighs around 400g. The second looks more like a Reflex with a flat brake track and weighs more. 11.4 turned me on to these rims (the lighter ones). I use them on my Serotta with rim brakes, but recently I built up another set with disc brakes. I think I have breathed new light into this style rim. No worry about the narrow brake track. Less extreme dish with rear wheels with a rotor on the left. They are perfect.


I have a personal stash tucked away that I've collected over the years.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Wheels/i-BJLZVmp/1/a1965219/L/GP4rimcollection-L.jpg

YIKES!!

Get 2 of these...otherwise, NOS
Ambrosio Nemesis
FIR-various
Campagnolo-various

Do a ebay search for each..lotsa offerings

examples

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Campagnolo-Omega-Tubular-Rims-NOS-PAIR-32-holes-/172773015672?hash=item283a130078:g:XFIAAOSwWdZZZQY A

AND Huzzah!! for not being..a you-know-what;)

[thwart]

I have a personal stash tucked away that I've collected over the years.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Wheels/i-BJLZVmp/1/a1965219/L/GP4rimcollection-L.jpg

Ha! I thought I was a hoarder... but of course, you build wheels for others as well.

[jc031699]

Limited or no choices for modern aluminum box section rims. There are several threads on tubular rim choices if you search. So you are pretty much relegated to the NOS and used market. A number of paceliners seem to like the Ambrosio Nemesis. I have a set and they are great. They come up here for sale once in a while. Again, you can search.

If you are willing to consider deeper more modern profile rims the Belgium C2 comes in tubular.

BTW you want "tubular" and not "tubeless" in your title.

I thought the Mavic Reflex was still available now as the Open Pro Tubular?

Here ya go. Why build em when you can buy em?
http://www.bikerecyclery.com/dura-ace-7700-mavic-reflex-sup-wheelset-700c-32h-silver-8-9-10-speed-near-mint/

[Llewellyn]

I thought the Mavic Reflex was still available now as the Open Pro Tubular?

Here ya go. Why build em when you can buy em?
http://www.bikerecyclery.com/dura-ace-7700-mavic-reflex-sup-wheelset-700c-32h-silver-8-9-10-speed-near-mint/

So very, very tempting..........until I got to the shipping part - almost as much as the wheels on their own :eek:

[FlashUNC]

Belgium C2s.

[KarlC]

I thought the Mavic Reflex was still available now as the Open Pro Tubular?

Here ya go. Why build em when you can buy em?
http://www.bikerecyclery.com/dura-ace-7700-mavic-reflex-sup-wheelset-700c-32h-silver-8-9-10-speed-near-mint/

I'll bet these would go great on my Colnago Master X Light with its Dura Ace 25th Anniversary 7700 group. Ive just never had a set of classic wheels on it, Ive always gone for deeper carbon tubulars.

You got me thinking tho ......

[Splash]

If you're patient, look for these rims. They are GP4s and note the label version. There are 2 different profiles they made over the years. One is lower in profile, more rounded sides, and weighs around 400g. The second looks more like a Reflex with a flat brake track and weighs more. 11.4 turned me on to these rims (the lighter ones). I use them on my Serotta with rim brakes, but recently I built up another set with disc brakes.

Hi Ergott

Is this link show the other heavier GP4 tubular rim version??

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/391836013805?chn=ps&dispItem=1&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww .ebay.com.au%25252Fi%25252F391836013805%25253Fchn% 25253Dps%252526dispItem%25253D1%2526itemid%253D391 836013805%2526targetid%253D91828831297%2526device% 253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9071406 %2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D184043497%2526adg roupid%253D8467825417%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-91828831297%2526abcId%253D%2526merchantid%253D1155 28900%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQjwnazLBRDxrdGMx-Km4oQBEiQAQJ1q6yuQfyRw2DFedZO1iRFMtn7-Am_hsEjr1JWKK_kHcmwaAtBY8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1258938804877

Splash

[marciero]

If you're patient, look for these rims. They are GP4s and note the label version. There are 2 different profiles they made over the years. One is lower in profile, more rounded sides, and weighs around 400g. The second looks more like a Reflex with a flat brake track and weighs more. 11.4 turned me on to these rims (the lighter ones). I use them on my Serotta with rim brakes, but recently I built up another set with disc brakes. I think I have breathed new light into this style rim. No worry about the narrow brake track. Less extreme dish with rear wheels with a rotor on the left. They are perfect.

Nemesis killers? Are you building these for customers or is this private stash? My Nemesis (Nemeses?) are looking a little worn...

[oldpotatoe]

Hi Ergott

Is this link show the other heavier GP4 tubular rim version??

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/391836013805?chn=ps&dispItem=1&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww .ebay.com.au%25252Fi%25252F391836013805%25253Fchn% 25253Dps%252526dispItem%25253D1%2526itemid%253D391 836013805%2526targetid%253D91828831297%2526device% 253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9071406 %2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D184043497%2526adg roupid%253D8467825417%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-91828831297%2526abcId%253D%2526merchantid%253D1155 28900%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQjwnazLBRDxrdGMx-Km4oQBEiQAQJ1q6yuQfyRw2DFedZO1iRFMtn7-Am_hsEjr1JWKK_kHcmwaAtBY8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1258938804877

Splash

Not Ergott but those are the original version, the 'light' ones.

And for right above..Nemesis is a far better rim than Mavic GP4 of any generation, IMHO. The later, heavier ones were better but the Nemesis is on par with the likes of Mavic SSC, Campagnolo Record Pave..Not real heavy but really, really great tubular rims. BUT with proper tension, the GP-4 works fine but the Nemesis is a better one, again, IMHO.

[godukes]

Another vote for Ambrosio Nemesis - it's not silver, but build it up with silver spokes and you're all set. Such a good solid classic wheel - though gotta say if I would take some of the reflex wheels too. Of course if you grabbed those campy rims and built it up with Shimano you would be an awesome and unique rider and serve as a model for middle east peace.

Tubular box section aluminum wheels with good sewups ride incredible and are something everyone should do. To be extra cool go with a full frame pump.

Nemesis seems to come up on paceline from time to time. I'm sure if you wait a few weeks you will see a pair for a reasonable price.

[holliscx]

I wouldn't consider tubulars unless you race cross

[oldpotatoe]

I wouldn't consider tubulars unless you race cross

Here we go..and it's not even winter. I use tubulars everyday, even on dirt roads, wet or dry days. I own no clinchers. They aren't a black art, don't get punctures any more than clinchers(less actually, never a pinch flat), easy to put on a pre glued spare..not hard to glue on at home. This 'better have a team service car behind you' stuff wears me out. They are more comfy, safer(no come off rim if flats), rounder, softer sidewalls(corner better) and lighter 'package' than a clincher. I see no compelling reason to use a clincher(or tubeless)...and yes, in 37 years of riding tubulars I have had 2 flats on one ride 3 times..the the last was a gooned up valve in the spare(don't put sealant in spare)...

[ultraman6970]

The tb25 is not a bad tubular rim, you have so many brands moving around to play with but between the ones I do not like are velocity ones. Had a wheel built with those rims and they sucked big time. Flimsy at 200 pounds ;P

Mavic gp4 and ambrosio montreal rims are good just in case.

[oldpotatoe]

The tb25 is not a bad tubular rim, you have so many brands moving around to play with but between the ones I do not like are velocity ones. Had a wheel built with those rims and they sucked big time. Flimsy at 200 pounds ;P

Mavic gp4 and ambrosio montreal rims are good just in case.

No such thing as a free lunch..Velocity Escape are light rims..I wouldn't ride them either..also .1 of a ton...

[holliscx]

Here we go..and it's not even winter. I use tubulars everyday, even on dirt roads, wet or dry days. I own no clinchers. They aren't a black art, don't get punctures any more than clinchers(less actually, never a pinch flat), easy to put on a pre glued spare..not hard to glue on at home. This 'better have a team service car behind you' stuff wears me out. They are more comfy, safer(no come off rim if flats), rounder, softer sidewalls(corner better) and lighter 'package' than a clincher. I see no compelling reason to use a clincher(or tubeless)...and yes, in 37 years of riding tubulars I have had 2 flats on one ride 3 times..the the last was a gooned up valve in the spare(don't put sealant in spare)...

Absolutely nothing wrong with that spud. Same if the OP shoots film and mixes chemicals in a darkroom to develop 36 exp afterwards, but his pictures aren't better for it which is my argument. I ride tubular and clinchers but would steer the OP towards digital.

[oldpotatoe]

Absolutely nothing wrong with that spud. Same if the OP shoots film and mixes chemicals in a darkroom to develop 36 exp afterwards, but his pictures aren't better for it which is my argument. I ride tubular and clinchers but would steer the OP towards digital.

Fair enough and the guy that does the fitting at Vecchio's is also a photographer and insists film, even with the 'trouble(he has a dark room), is far superior to digital for the pix he takes.

[holliscx]

https://instagram.fmad3-4.fna.fbcdn.net/t51.2885-15/e35/19931968_1967234916887929_6118426404892704768_n.jp g

[ColonelJLloyd]

Here we go..and it's not even winter. I use tubulars everyday, even on dirt roads, wet or dry days. I own no clinchers. They aren't a black art, don't get punctures any more than clinchers(less actually, never a pinch flat), easy to put on a pre glued spare..not hard to glue on at home. This 'better have a team service car behind you' stuff wears me out. They are more comfy, safer(no come off rim if flats), rounder, softer sidewalls(corner better) and lighter 'package' than a clincher. I see no compelling reason to use a clincher(or tubeless)...and yes, in 37 years of riding tubulars I have had 2 flats on one ride 3 times..the the last was a gooned up valve in the spare(don't put sealant in spare)...

Do you have personal experience with modern clincher tires on wide rims? Thinking Compass, Corsa G+, Schwalbe G-One Speed, etc.

[KarlC]

Do you have personal experience with modern clincher tires on wide rims? Thinking Compass, Corsa G+, Schwalbe G-One Speed, etc.

The same question should be asked about modern tubular tires and wheels right ?

[ergott]

Hi Ergott

Is this link show the other heavier GP4 tubular rim version??

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/391836013805?chn=ps&dispItem=1&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww .ebay.com.au%25252Fi%25252F391836013805%25253Fchn% 25253Dps%252526dispItem%25253D1%2526itemid%253D391 836013805%2526targetid%253D91828831297%2526device% 253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9071406 %2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D184043497%2526adg roupid%253D8467825417%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-91828831297%2526abcId%253D%2526merchantid%253D1155 28900%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQjwnazLBRDxrdGMx-Km4oQBEiQAQJ1q6yuQfyRw2DFedZO1iRFMtn7-Am_hsEjr1JWKK_kHcmwaAtBY8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1258938804877

Splash
That label was used for several variations so difficult to tell.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[zmudshark]

Hi Ergott

Is this link show the other heavier GP4 tubular rim version??

https://www.ebay.com.au/i/391836013805?chn=ps&dispItem=1&ul_ref=http%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover %252F1%252F705-139619-5960-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww .ebay.com.au%25252Fi%25252F391836013805%25253Fchn% 25253Dps%252526dispItem%25253D1%2526itemid%253D391 836013805%2526targetid%253D91828831297%2526device% 253Dm%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D9071406 %2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D184043497%2526adg roupid%253D8467825417%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-91828831297%2526abcId%253D%2526merchantid%253D1155 28900%2526gclid%253DCj0KEQjwnazLBRDxrdGMx-Km4oQBEiQAQJ1q6yuQfyRw2DFedZO1iRFMtn7-Am_hsEjr1JWKK_kHcmwaAtBY8P8HAQ%2526srcrot%253D705-139619-5960-0%2526rvr_id%253D1258938804877

Splash

That's one I actually know. Those are early 80's rims. Nearly bulletproof in the day. Rode GP4's all week and 280's on Sunday.

I'm not sure how that version would build up as a 10/11s. The wheel builders can offer up their expertise on that one. If I had to hazard a guess, I would think Ergott's rims were maybe designed for 130 spacing...the eBay link, definitely 126 era.

[thwart]

Rode GP4's all week and 280's on Sunday.


Love it.

The days before carbon hoops.

[ergott]

I will repost this so since it was so well written.

http://forums.thepaceline.net/showpost.php?p=400640&postcount=10

The engineering has actually been on a rather perverse trend as far as Mavic tubular rims are concerned. The GP4s were somewhat overbuilt but extremely durable, and their rather low section meant that they had a spring to them that made them feel noticeably more supple and comfortable on rougher road surfaces. If you have been trying to find a comfortable ride on Veloflexes or the like but have been using deep-section or semi-deep rims (CXP33's, most carbon rims, etc.), the GP4s are a joy to ride. The SSC designation was applied to all kinds of rims that were sold to professional teams, many of whom requested custom features -- drillings, weights, different colored anodizings, etc. At times if the order was large enough the team actually had its name on a supplementary label on the rim. But the SSC label became generalized to cover the higher-end of their wheels (so that now the Cosmic Carbone Pro, the Ultimate, and I believe even the Ksyrium SL2 have the label). Sometimes these were just relabeled GP4s, sometimes they were different wall thicknesses, etc., so you have real gems from time to time and a smattering of dogs mixed in there as well. The two SSC tubular rims that really stand out are the Mavic SSC Bleu, which was distinguished by its beautiful deep cobalt blue color, and the Mavic Paris Roubaix SSC. The Bleu's are very pricey and very gorgeous, but somewhat compromised mechanically -- their ferrules tend to corrode and are easily split. I've lost more than one rim just in the building when you just start to tension the spokes and the ferrules start to split. If you keep tensioning, you simply pull the little joining rivet out of the hole and the ferrule starts to come apart. The Bleu's also keep their looks only as long as you don't use brakes -- I put a pair on a track bike and they got lots of compliments, but on road bikes they quickly look very used and frankly, ugly. Also, they don't build all that well. If not for the looks, they wouldn't be priced the way they are.

The Paris Roubaix's, on the other hand, were a rare combination of newer alloys, just the right kind of handling and extrusion, and a perfect profile. They are extremely low profile (borderline too low for the rather tall profile brake blocks that Campy and Shimano are using these days to increase braking power) so they deal really well with chipseal, rough roads, cobbles, etc. Ride a pair of these on European cobbles and you'll see why the pros love them. They are virtually unbreakable, the extrusion leaves plenty of wall thickness on the braking surfaces, etc. They also incorporated stainless ferrules (unlike the SSC Bleu's) which have proven very durable. Except for price, they are simply great rims. Taking price into account, GP4s are virtually the same rim (at least in the second version of that rim) and give almost the same ride for far less cost. The Ambrosio Nemesis rims were specifically designed to emulate the Paris Roubaix and do a really fine job of it. If anything, they are better made. They definitely merit your attention.

The problems with the Reflex are severalfold. First, Mavic was trying to get weight down and reduced wall thickness so far that they only have a limited braking life before they wear through the sidewalls. Second, the extrusions aren't the best and not only have inconsistent wall thickness but also are rather work hardened in the process so they have a nasty tendency to crack at the ferrules. Third, they increased the profile from that of the Paris Roubaix and 2nd version GP4 and in the process made a harsher riding rim. All in all, not a particularly great rim. They do have machined sidewalls, but those were actually done because they couldn't extrude a taller braking surface that didn't have waves in it so they had to surface grind it to get it even. The grinding actually emphasizes differences in wall thickness so you can get some very thin spots even before you start to ride them and you don't get any improvement in braking over a non-machined rim. You do get a higher-profile braking surface, but you have enough to work with on a GP4 or Paris Roubaix or the like. They are welded, but Mavic's welding is not up to DT's in quality and on these rims has at times been problematic. Although demands on a rear rim in particular were increasing with more dishing, these rims have been rather mediocre solutions. In short, I don't think there's a reason to use them. They frankly are not great rims.

As for the versions of GP4s: The first version was dark anodized with the classic red and gold Mavic foil label. They were extremely nice rims but most were built with ferrules that tended to corrode and eventually split at the rivet. The alloy also wasn't as good as on later models. The second version -- in my view the best -- retained the low section but added stainless ferrules (same as on the Paris Roubaix) and switched to a purple and green label (also the same design label as on the P-R). These were wonderful rims. Mavic shortly thereafter changed the extrusion and went for a somewhat higher profile, very boxy rim that was significantly heavier, extremely rigid in its ride, but otherwise looked the same. If you wanted a heavier, extremely durable rim, this was it, but it wasn't as pleasant to ride.

If you find a good price on a second-version GP4, grab it. If you find a good price on a Paris Roubaix, definitely grab it (they were being remaindered a few years ago and I bought a lifetime supply, and there are plenty of them around though when they hit eBay the prices are embarrassing). The better Campy rims were supposedly built by Ambrosio and are also quite good. The best, and best priced, choice today is the Ambrosio Nemesis. Hold one in your hand and you'll see why. If you want to ride without chipseal vibration, or want that old silk tubular feel, you need some of these. At about $70-75 a rim, use these and let the vintage bike collectors go for the Paris Roubaix's.

[zmudshark]

If you find a good price on a second-version GP4, grab it. If you find a good price on a Paris Roubaix, definitely grab it (they were being remaindered a few years ago and I bought a lifetime supply, and there are plenty of them around though when they hit eBay the prices are embarrassing). The better Campy rims were supposedly built by Ambrosio and are also quite good. The best, and best priced, choice today is the Ambrosio Nemesis. Hold one in your hand and you'll see why. If you want to ride without chipseal vibration, or want that old silk tubular feel, you need some of these. At about $70-75 a rim, use these and let the vintage bike collectors go for the Paris Roubaix's.

^^^^ Word

[Gummee]

I wouldn't consider tubulars unless you race cross

...or ride gravel.

Tubulars are still better than tubeless on gravel rides. I have both to switch between the 2 of them.

Me? I have a few pair of Reflex tubulars, a pair of Major Toms, a pair of Mach 2 Ceramics, and a stack of Campy and/or Mavic box-section tubulars that are waiting for the right circumstances.

Durability-wise, the Major Tom is really hard to beat. $-wise too for that matter. No, they're not the sexiest rim out there, but if you're riding/racing gravel or CX, they're going to get beat up.

I've had Nemesis rims before too. Good stuff. I think the only reason I sold em is that those wheels weren't upgradable to 11sp and I didn't want to monkey with em

In the past, I've ridden more than a few pairs of Escape rims too. I'd run a rear Escape with a box-section front 'cause the box-sections (GL330s) wouldn't stay in true to stave my life.

M

[Splash]

[QUOTE=ergott;2204192]They are perfect.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Wheels/i-NgzPZTS/0/04c7cd82/XL/20170624_133326~2-XL.jpg

QUOTE]

What hub and spokes are shown in this photo?

Maximum rider weight these rims and hub can handle?


Splash

[oliver1850]

As Ultra mentioned, Ambrosio Montreal still turn up NOS on ebay. Not highly polished, but weight is the same as Nemesis and I doubt there is much difference other than the stem hole counterweight. Not a box section, but Major Toms are available polished.

[Splash]

What is the maximum rider weight allowable for the gp4 rims shown by Ergott?

Splash

[wildboar]

These Delta chromiums always looked nice
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322552504008

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/322552504017

Check out the awesome triathlon picture on the Delta page in the 1986 rim catalog http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/Manufacturer+Archive/Campagnolo+Archive/Campagnolo+Catalogues/

[ergott]

[QUOTE=ergott;2204192]They are perfect.

https://photos.smugmug.com/Cycling/Wheels/i-NgzPZTS/0/04c7cd82/XL/20170624_133326~2-XL.jpg

QUOTE]

What hub and spokes are shown in this photo?

Maximum rider weight these rims and hub can handle?


Splash

Those are Bitex BX106 hubs for centerlock brakes. The spokes I used were Race on one side Laser on the other. Nipples are alloy with HM washers between them and the eyelets. I'm going to start using those washers with double eyelet rims more often since I think some eyelets are roughly finished and dig into the nipples (brass or alloy). They quality of eyelets on these rims are excellent, it was more of an experiment and I liked how they built up.

Weight limit depends, but if using all heavy gauge spokes and the right hubs they'll support most riders up into the 200lb range. The rims are pretty strong. The Nemesis rims are easier to find and have more of a brake track to them. They also weigh a lot more.

I like these rims more because they are lighter and have an ultra low profile to them.

[oldpotatoe]

What is the maximum rider weight allowable for the gp4 rims shown by Ergott?

Splash

Hard to say. I have built wheels for 150 pound guys who kill wheels, even heavy ones and 200 pounders who never have an issue, even with light-ish wheels. I'm riding Campag Omega Delta tubular rims, very old school and similar to GP-4, profile and weight wise, laced to Record 9/10/11s black hubs. Very reliable but I am pretty easy on stuff...also 36h. And I'm 203lbs as of this AM.

[PepeM]

One more vote for Nemesis. Or Cronos. I have some DA hubs laced to Cronos and they are really nice.

[ultraman6970]

Ultra is like potato and no problems with gp4s... if you go 36H pretty much you have no weight limit problems, spokes have changed alot in the last 50 years.

One thing tho, if you are like 200 pounds and want to go 24 spokes I would not do it at all with a low profile rim, you will need like an aero 25 to 35 mm high modern rim for that. But this is my personal opinion.

The other factor is that rims have changed a lot in the last 25 years, you were going to built a 24H rim low profile rim back in the day if you wanted a TT wheel, and usualy the wheels were going to be light and kind'a flimsy, and last not too long... but alumiunms and shapes have change a lot so you can built stuff light and strong with modern rims w/o any problems. I have a wheel with 16 spokes in the front really nice stuff.

The main issue in my opinion with tubulars now a days is that you dont have too many manufacturers of rims specially in high profile aluminum, since everybody wants carbon you find chinese carbon all over the place.

For example Zipp makes the 101 in clincher, that rim would be fantastic in tubular but they sell carbon tubular so there is no way to get that rim in tubular, same with other manufacturers of aluminum rims, some have only clinchers... tubular is not their thing.

Potato sure every time he find rims for good price he buys them to have a stock there, noticed the same behavoir with other forumites, why do I notice? because i used to do the same :P

[Splash]

[QUOTE=Splash;2204916]

Those are Bitex BX106 hubs for centerlock brakes. The spokes I used were Race on one side Laser on the other. Nipples are alloy with HM washers between them and the eyelets. I'm going to start using those washers with double eyelet rims more often since I think some eyelets are roughly finished and dig into the nipples (brass or alloy). They quality of eyelets on these rims are excellent, it was more of an experiment and I liked how they built up.

Weight limit depends, but if using all heavy gauge spokes and the right hubs they'll support most riders up into the 200lb range. The rims are pretty strong. The Nemesis rims are easier to find and have more of a brake track to them. They also weigh a lot more.

I like these rims more because they are lighter and have an ultra low profile to them.

Thanks Ergott

Would your hub / spoke setup on these rims accommodate up to 200lb rider?

What degree of flex / compliance is in this setup under heavy power loading?

What brake setup do you use for this Wheelset?


Splash

[ergott]

Rim brake?

Alchemy hubs, GP4 rims and Race spokes. Unless you're a wheel killer that should be a very solid set of wheels. I have the same, but with lighter gauge spokes for my Ottrott.

[Splash]

Thanks ERGOTT

I mentioned brakes because you stated Centerlock brakes and I have not hear about these before. Curious....

Alchemy hubs are very scarce and vary hard to obtain.

Would those bitex hubs accomodate a rider up to 200lbs?


Splash

[kansukee]

Funny, I built an alloy tubular wheelset for a steel bike using Kinlin TB25s in silver. Much better than the Major Toms, these are light and build very stiff plus look great. Nice low aero profile (25mm) and you can get them for around 30-35 bucks per rim. Can't go wrong with these for the price, looks and performance.

[ergott]

Thanks ERGOTT

I mentioned brakes because you stated Centerlock brakes and I have not hear about these before. Curious....

Alchemy hubs are very scarce and vary hard to obtain.

Would those bitex hubs accomodate a rider up to 200lbs?


Splash


Centerlock refers to the way the disc rotors are mounted to the hubs. They aren't really for rim brake wheels.

Alchemy is now made by Wheels Manufacturing. I should really be referring to them by Wheels Mfg from now on. They are readily available now and build into stiffer wheels than any other hub.

I recently recently had a rider with some Enve 4.5 rims laced to other hubs complaining about brake run out of the saddle. I took same rim and relaced it to a Wheels Mfg hub and it eliminated the rub. There's less lateral deflection with that hub due to both the flange spacing and the bearing placement.

[Gummee]

One more vote for Nemesis. Or Cronos. I have some DA hubs laced to Cronos and they are really nice.

I have a 'built, but not ridden' D/A track (low flange) front hub in a Cronos rim. Been waiting for the low flange rear to match to finish the wheelset.

Been waiting more'n a few years.

M

[Splash]

Centerlock refers to the way the disc rotors are mounted to the hubs. They aren't really for rim brake wheels.

Alchemy is now made by Wheels Manufacturing. I should really be referring to them by Wheels Mfg from now on. They are readily available now and build into stiffer wheels than any other hub.

I recently recently had a rider with some Enve 4.5 rims laced to other hubs complaining about brake run out of the saddle. I took same rim and relaced it to a Wheels Mfg hub and it eliminated the rub. There's less lateral deflection with that hub due to both the flange spacing and the bearing placement.

Great stuff!

Ideal disc rotors to fit the Bitex BX106 hubs ?


Splash

[ColonelJLloyd]

Great stuff!

Ideal disc rotors to fit the Bitex BX106 hubs ?


Splash

Centerlock is (I believe) a Shimano licensed tech standard. In the same way a SRAM or SunRace or Miche cassette fits a Shimano spline perfectly, the centerlock spline does not care who manufactured the rotor. Additionally, I've found that with the DT Swiss 6-bolt adapter in the parts bin you can be open to whatever nice rotors might come your way.

[rwsaunders]

I am probably the least likely guy on the forum to ride tubulars as everyday wheels as mechanical skills are not my greatest virtue, but that's what I do. Year round, rain or shine. I take no exception with clinchers or course, but I ride up and down a lot of hills and it's not hard to reach downhill speeds of 40-45 mph around here.

My primary reason for using "sew ups" is limiting the likelihood of a front tire puncture really ruining my day. The quality of the tubular ride is just a bonus. There's also a little zen-like action going on for me when I focus on the gluing and mounting process and Veloflex tubulars just make me happy...ymmv of course.

I've got a pair of Nemesis 32h rims laced to black Record hubs and a pair of Reflex 32h rims laced to a pair of silver Record hubs. I wish that I could tell the difference but since the tires are different widths, models and pressures, I just pump and ride.

[oldpotatoe]

Thanks ERGOTT

I mentioned brakes because you stated Centerlock brakes and I have not hear about these before. Curious....

Alchemy hubs are very scarce and vary hard to obtain.

Would those bitex hubs accomodate a rider up to 200lbs?


Splash

http://wheelsmfg.com/hubs/rear-road-hubs.html Excellent but not cheap.

[Climb01742]

I am probably the least likely guy on the forum to ride tubulars as everyday wheels as mechanical skills are not my greatest virtue, but that's what I do. Year round, rain or shine. I take no exception with clinchers or course, but I ride up and down a lot of hills and it's not hard to reach downhill speeds of 40-45 mph around here.

My primary reason for using "sew ups" is limiting the likelihood of a front tire puncture really ruining my day. The quality of the tubular ride is just a bonus. There's also a little zen-like action going on for me when I focus on the gluing and mounting process and Veloflex tubulars just make me happy...ymmv of course.

I've got a pair of Nemesis 32h rims laced to black Record hubs and a pair of Reflex 32h rims laced to a pair of silver Record hubs. I wish that I could tell the difference but since the tires are different widths, models and pressures, I just pump and ride.

Someday I hope I can get to where you are. My mechanical skills are, um, limited too. I've ridden tubulars on and off, and dig 'em, but then I have a flat, get spooked, and go back to clinchers. Wish a LBS did a hands-on tutorial about tubulars. With practice, I'm sure I could overcome my wimpiness.:rolleyes:

[classtimesailer]

Someday I hope I can get to where you are. My mechanical skills are, um, limited too. I've ridden tubulars on and off, and dig 'em, but then I have a flat, get spooked, and go back to clinchers. Wish a LBS did a hands-on tutorial about tubulars. With practice, I'm sure I could overcome my wimpiness.:rolleyes:

I watched a guy front puncture on a fast descent. I'm a wimp now and prefer tubulars on fast rides. I like my GP4 spaced to 126mm and my Nemesis for 130. Probably get the latest Mavics next.

[KarlC]

I really dont understand why more people dont enjoy the ride of tubulars ?

There is nothing hard about using them ....

- I get less flats than my friends who ride clincher
- When they get a flat its a long process, unpack new tube, turn bike upside down, remove wheel, remove tire, remove bad tube, check tire for thorns, install new tube, reinstall tire, put wheel back on, turn bike over, air up.
- If I start to get a flat sealant fixes it and I never stop, or I use Vittoria Pit Stop and Im back riding in 30 seconds.

As far as installing tubulars its like painting and staying inside the lines, really anyone could do it.

[Splash]

Slightly going away from OP - apologies - but (to Ergott and Old Poratoe) how well do those latest wheel manufacturing hubs compare in lateral deflection to the CK and Record hubs?



Splash

[Splash]

I really dont understand why more people dont enjoy the ride of tubulars ?
.......
- If I start to get a flat sealant fixes it and I never stop, or I use Vittoria Pit Stop and Im back riding in 30 seconds.



Do you already have sealant inside your tubular tires?

If so, does this not add more rotational weight inside the tires?

How long should sealant remain inside tubulars before they start to deterioate?

Splash

[oldpotatoe]

Do you already have sealant inside your tubular tires?

If so, does this not add more rotational weight inside the tires?

How long should sealant remain inside tubulars before they start to deterioate?

Splash

Orange seal in mine, just saved me a tire replace about 4 rides ago. Not much in there, won't notice and the tire will wear out way before it gets glumly.

For gent above and why people don't use tubulars? Lotsa of mis information, lots of 'my buddy's friends sister' stuff. Many see it as a black art....it's really easy.
I see no compelling reason to use clinchers. Besides, clinchers are for ya know'BR' or something.:)

[classtimesailer]

Do you already have sealant inside your tubular tires?

If so, does this not add more rotational weight inside the tires?

How long should sealant remain inside tubulars before they start to deterioate?

Splash

If you have 4 or more wheel sets with mounted tubulars, maybe you wouldn't put sealant in them all. My spring classic wheel set that only got ridden during a few rides in the spring had sealant that balled up inside but I can't feel it while riding. But in the wheels you regularly ride, you will wear out the tires before you need additional sealant. For race wheels with alloy nipples and such, skip the sealant.

[Splash]

Thanks guys

I remember inserting sealant in my rear tubular enve 6.7 rear in 2013. Still on the same tire as I have not ridden it much since. Should I remove this tire now - I think it has alloy nipples?

Splash

[ultraman6970]

My experience with sealant, put the tufo one (1st generation sealant) in a expensive vittoria... after the second ride noticed a squeak while riding, the darn sealant formed a ball inside of the tube close to the valvee... impossible to get that out, 100 bucks to the trash.

[ergott]

Slightly going away from OP - apologies - but (to Ergott and Old Poratoe) how well do those latest wheel manufacturing hubs compare in lateral deflection to the CK and Record hubs?



Splash
As I mentioned earlier, it absolutely made the difference between brake rub every pedal stroke out of the saddle and silence. The hub I replaced had the same flange spacing and bearing arrangement as most other hubs.

That was with a very stiff carbon rim. With low profile alloy rims you don't get as much opposite side deflection. It's more local at the contact patch of tire.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[ergott]

This is a link I always like sharing

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Tech/Debunking_Wheel_Stiffness_3449.html

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[classtimesailer]

Thanks guys

I remember inserting sealant in my rear tubular enve 6.7 rear in 2013. Still on the same tire as I have not ridden it much since. Should I remove this tire now - I think it has alloy nipples?

Splash

No no no....I mentioned the alloy nipples since most folks with alloy nipples are trying to reduce rotating weight and likely won't want 28 extra grams in their tire. Remove the tire? Some would reglue after so many years.

[rwsaunders]

I carry sealant with me but I don't pretreat the tube. I had a flat on a rear tire about two years ago that was on its last leg and I was all excited to play bicycle repairman...remember that skit from Monty Python? I installed the sealant and proceeded to inflate the tire. The thing is, I didn't notice that it was a sidewall flat and I ended up spraying 2 oz of Orange Seal all over my calf. Don't be that guy.