Just Noticeable Differences

[tv_vt]

"Just Noticeable Differences" (JND) - mentioned in the thread on Hyperon and Bora wheels - now there is something I haven't seen before, but it sure makes a lot of sense. Here's the Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-noticeable_difference

For bike and bike component JND testing, one challenge is how to do a blind test on the road without being actually blind. Lots of black primer spray paint over everything? But seriously, when you can see what you're riding on, it makes it hard to be totally objective.

And how we judge our sensations can really vary and vary in importance. For example, on a long ride or in a group or other high stress/high fatigue situations, the thing you want most out of your bike is for it to completely disappear below you so you can concentrate on everything else going on. You don't want it to draw attention to itself.

But with some bikes, they seem to always be reminding you what you're riding. For me, in the end, I've come to dislike that sensation.

I think wheels is one of the components where JND sensations are most varied among riders. And tires, actually. For little cost, you can get very noticeable differences in the ride of your bike by changing the tires you're using.

Interesting way of looking at things.

[msl819]

"Just Noticeable Differences" (JND) - mentioned in the thread on Hyperon and Bora wheels - now there is something I haven't seen before, but it sure makes a lot of sense. Here's the Wiki link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just-noticeable_difference

For bike and bike component JND testing, one challenge is how to do a blind test on the road without being actually blind. Lots of black primer spray paint over everything? But seriously, when you can see what you're riding on, it makes it hard to be totally objective.

And how we judge our sensations can really vary and vary in importance. For example, on a long ride or in a group or other high stress/high fatigue situations, the thing you want most out of your bike is for it to completely disappear below you so you can concentrate on everything else going on. You don't want it to draw attention to itself.

But with some bikes, they seem to always be reminding you what you're riding. For me, in the end, I've come to dislike that sensation.

I think wheels is one of the components where JND sensations are most varied among riders. And tires, actually. For little cost, you can get very noticeable differences in the ride of your bike by changing the tires you're using.

Interesting way of looking at things.

I would say that wheels and tires have been the most noticeable difference on a bike both for the good and the bad. Maybe more than anything else except a saddle. The first time I rode a good set of handbuilts with top end rubber it blew my mind and kept me from selling a bike that I would have regretted selling g.

[Mark McM]

Here's how one person did a blind test:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=5338055

[Bob Ross]

Here's how one person did a blind test:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=5338055


I now hate Photobucket even more than I did 30 seconds ago. Which was a lot.

[eddief]

Conti 4000 S II 700 x 28 on 23 mm wide rims, 65 psi front, 75 psi rear.

Try em on a Schwinn Continental with Ashtabula crank :).

[Mark McM]

I now hate Photobucket even more than I did 30 seconds ago. Which was a lot.

It's too bad the photos aren't visible.

From what I recall from seeing them earlier, he fashioned a system to prevent him from seeing the bike he was riding by starting with a full face helment like this one:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTBpTTiZi9UTiOQ9UbjPxuhOk2y8Cqog 9ZHiA2JBbe4mrFRPE2M

He then attached a cardboard disk, about 2 feet in diameter, to the bottom brim of the helmet, with a hole cut out of the center so that he could still put the helmet on. The cardboard disk allowed him to see forward and to the side, so he could ride a bike, but not down, so he could not see the bike he was riding.