View Full Version : How to build a set of clincher wheels that ride almost as good as tubulars
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 07:01 AM
Low flange hubs 32 drilling
NOS MA40s
14/15 spokage
Your fav. overpriced clincher.
Why am I throwing this out for discussion? Because clinchers are appropriate and popular choice for many. Some folks who ride clinchers are tempted to go tubular but can't pull the trigger because of fear factor. Building a clincher set that has reachable panache, forgiving ride and bombproof design has to have appeal for "thems who wants to go tubular but just ain't there yet". Kapiche?
My track bike when fitted for city riding rolls on the above wheelset and I think it is a really REALLY good design. Forgiving, laterally stiff and very durable. A GREAT wheelset for training or the long haul.
Clinchers...it's what's you ride.
Fixed
08-31-2006, 07:14 AM
bro tell me about m a 40's they are the clincher version of g p4's ?
cheers
I have a set with d.a. hubs I have not used them yet though .
Wasn't the MA-40 just the machined version of the venerable MA-2? or is my memory totally shot? If it is, an MA-2 will do you just as well, if you can find 'em. I have a couple of sets built up and like 'em, but not as much as open pros. The MA-3 is the new version, which I've never used, but have heard fairly good things about. Why the MA-40 (or that ilk) over the OP?
-Ray
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 07:59 AM
Wasn't the MA-40 just the machined version of the venerable MA-2? or is my memory totally shot? If it is, an MA-2 will do you just as well, if you can find 'em. I have a couple of sets built up and like 'em, but not as much as open pros. The MA-3 is the new version, which I've never used, but have heard fairly good things about. Why the MA-40 (or that ilk) over the OP?
-Ray
MA40 is the CD hard ano version of the old MA2.
It's 20.5mm wide, not 19.5 like an open pro, and the MA40 is not as tall.
The MA40 is virtually identical shape to the "new" GP4 tubular, which were
the ones with the purple and yellow decals, not the old ones with the red
and gold stickers.
http://www.jacksbikes.com/images/rimma40700.jpg
http://www.sjscycles.com/store/mavicma40cd700crimsbig.jpg
g
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 08:07 AM
Free beers forever Grant :) 'Zactly what I'm talking about.
Da hubs + MA40 = a great call Fixed :)
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 08:09 AM
Free beers forever Grant :) 'Zactly what I'm talking about.
cool, i'm comin' right over!
g
stevep
08-31-2006, 08:26 AM
trick question.
who knows the old mavic test for hard anno vs simply dark colored rims?
grant? tt?
anyone?
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 08:30 AM
trick question.
who knows the old mavic test for hard anno vs simply dark colored rims?
grant? tt?
anyone?
i usually check how much money is missing from my wallet...
:)
g
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 08:33 AM
You got me there pal. I could make an educated guess?
Look at the ano penetration where the spoke holes are drilled? There should be a shadow line.
MA40 is the CD hard ano version of the old MA2.
It's 20.5mm wide, not 19.5 like an open pro, and the MA40 is not as tall.
The MA40 is virtually identical shape to the "new" GP4 tubular, which were
the ones with the purple and yellow decals, not the old ones with the red
and gold stickers.
Thank you sir - how does the current MA-3 slot in there?
-Ray
stevep
08-31-2006, 08:52 AM
You got me there pal. I could make an educated guess?
Look at the ano penetration where the spoke holes are drilled? There should be a shadow line.
funny test.
take a hard anno rim unbuilt. you can sit on it and it does not bust.
a color only rim will crush under your weight.
funny but true.
dont ask what weight is used... art westers weight at the time i guess.
flydhest
08-31-2006, 08:54 AM
Look at the ano penetration.
. . . dude.
Take that one over to the 'roid thread, will you ?
funny test.
take a hard anno rim unbuilt. you can sit on it and it does not bust.
a color only rim will crush under your weight.
funny but true.
dont ask what weight is used... art westers weight at the time i guess.
That's what we'd call a destructive test.
Our first tandem wheelset had Mavic hubs laced to MA40 rims (36) using 14/15 spokes.
The ride? Didn't notice. Back then there was nothing but pain and suffering as we tried to keep up with certain speedy folks.
But those MA40 rims were reliable. Good nos pick.
Fixed
08-31-2006, 09:35 AM
bro so why no more hard anno rims ?
I have some 330's and ma40 's I keep savin the 330's they have mavic hubs
I use'n op's (601 hubs) with 28 hole revo spokes rear tied and soderd drive side on my merckx i also have a n.o.s. mavic ssc k's the older ones without the machined out space between the spokes . I can't seem to bring myself to put those on the merckx for some reason. maybe i should try them ?
cheers
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 09:47 AM
Fly, roll up your sleeves I'm driving you to Buffalo.
Bradford
08-31-2006, 10:00 AM
TT,
On my touring bike, I ride an MA2 on the front and an MA40 on the rear. Does that count?
Fixed
08-31-2006, 10:09 AM
mavic factory burned down ,so what happend?
cheers
mavic factory burned down ,so what happend?
cheers
that's how all the early anodized rims were born atmo.
... i also have a n.o.s. mavic ssc k's the older ones without the machined out space between the spokes . I can't seem to bring myself to put those on the merckx for some reason. maybe i should try them ?
cheers
They are bombproof but they probably won't improve the ride.
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 11:07 AM
bro so why no more hard anno rims ?
I have some 330's and ma40 's I keep savin the 330's they have mavic hubs
I use'n op's (601 hubs) with 28 hole revo spokes rear tied and soderd drive side on my merckx
bro,
mavic still does the O.P. and the relfex tubular in hard anno,
for that classy look. just don't see them much, they look
kinda weird with all black tires, they need a tan :)
g
Big Dan
08-31-2006, 11:34 AM
Reflex/Sprinters...I like......... :)
coylifut
08-31-2006, 11:43 AM
Reflex/Sprinters...I like......... :)
Big Dan,
Does the ano wear off on the braking surface over time?
Big Dan
08-31-2006, 11:53 AM
Not so far. Those wheels are fairly new, less than 1K miles. So far so good.
:)
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 12:07 PM
Big Dan,
Does the ano wear off on the braking surface over time?
it comes off in the rain.
If you ride in the dry only, it stays there for a long time,
but 2 or 3 good rides in the wet, and the silver starts to come through.
There is a ceramic sidewall version of the open pro that never wears out.
g
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 12:19 PM
That's the truth G. About 12 yrs. ago I built Queen a set of very cool wheels using OP Ceramics with...get this...one off Clark Kent Hubs woo woo. After many yrs. of use we finally just put them away!!! Oh cr@p don't anyone else say ceramic twice more or Cees will re-constitute ;)
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 12:23 PM
That's the truth G. About 12 yrs. ago I built Queen a set of very cool wheels using OP Ceramics with...get this...one off Clark Kent Hubs woo woo. After many yrs. of use we finally just put them away!!! Oh cr@p don't anyone else say ceramic twice more or Cees will re-constitute ;)
TT - hey, that's my cinderella test!
when i find a gal riding mavic ceramics,
i'll make her my queen...
g
stevep
08-31-2006, 12:29 PM
youll know cause she'll need brake pads atmo!
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 12:33 PM
I saw her first :cool: However, I'll be on the look out for yah m'brutha.
Brons2
08-31-2006, 12:36 PM
Low flange hubs 32 drilling
NOS MA40s
14/15 spokage
Your fav. overpriced clincher.
Why am I throwing this out for discussion? Because clinchers are appropriate and popular choice for many. Some folks who ride clinchers are tempted to go tubular but can't pull the trigger because of fear factor. Building a clincher set that has reachable panache, forgiving ride and bombproof design has to have appeal for "thems who wants to go tubular but just ain't there yet". Kapiche?
My track bike when fitted for city riding rolls on the above wheelset and I think it is a really REALLY good design. Forgiving, laterally stiff and very durable. A GREAT wheelset for training or the long haul.
Clinchers...it's what's you ride.
What would the durability of such a wheel be for a larger rider?
Just curious.
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 12:39 PM
Do I recall you are in the + 250 range??? I weigh 200 even and they are rock solid all day long. I'd bump it up to 36 hole for the rear fer sher.
coylifut
08-31-2006, 12:44 PM
it comes off in the rain.
If you ride in the dry only, it stays there for a long time,
but 2 or 3 good rides in the wet, and the silver starts to come through.
There is a ceramic sidewall version of the open pro that never wears out.
g
I just had a new set of cross wheels built using the silver ones because i thought the ano would wear off and then they'd have that look to em. you know what i mean where it's silver between the spoke beds but the ano is patchy. cross in the PNW would make quick work of em for sure.
Brons2
08-31-2006, 02:18 PM
Do I recall you are in the + 250 range??? I weigh 200 even and they are rock solid all day long. I'd bump it up to 36 hole for the rear fer sher.
Yes I weigh over 250. Ergott is building me a rear wheel, but I am thinking about building my own backup wheel off of the DTSwiss Hugi hub on my old wheel. Would that be considered a "low flange" wheel?
Matt Barkley
08-31-2006, 02:42 PM
DT Swiss R 1.1a with Campy or DTSwiss hubs (built for you - # of spokes and tension and cross specific for you) and veloflex paves. :beer: These be the best. - Matt
Too Tall
08-31-2006, 07:24 PM
Yep, besides you know I'm going to agree with whatever Matt says ;)
Toyo Toyo Toyo (say that 10 times without cracking up).
Grant McLean
08-31-2006, 07:43 PM
I just had a new set of cross wheels built using the silver ones because i thought the ano would wear off and then they'd have that look to em. you know what i mean where it's silver between the spoke beds but the ano is patchy. cross in the PNW would make quick work of em for sure.
the raw aluminum is a higher friction braking surface too. good call.
g
H1449-6
08-31-2006, 08:17 PM
Low flange hub + low profile rim = longer spoke. So what I think you're saying is that the longer the spoke the better the ride.
I agree.
oracle
08-31-2006, 08:38 PM
would you be so kind as to define 'almost'?
we've almost figured out what _is_ means...
Low flange hubs 32 drilling
NOS MA40s
14/15 spokage
Your fav. overpriced clincher.
Why am I throwing this out for discussion? Because clinchers are appropriate and popular choice for many. Some folks who ride clinchers are tempted to go tubular but can't pull the trigger because of fear factor. Building a clincher set that has reachable panache, forgiving ride and bombproof design has to have appeal for "thems who wants to go tubular but just ain't there yet". Kapiche?
My track bike when fitted for city riding rolls on the above wheelset and I think it is a really REALLY good design. Forgiving, laterally stiff and very durable. A GREAT wheelset for training or the long haul.
Clinchers...it's what's you ride.
Too Tall
09-01-2006, 07:09 AM
;) No sweat Oracle. "Almost"....as in "were" it not for the fact you are still on tubular tires the (clincher) wheelset would be as good.
I ride my bike to work everyday. Everyone here knows how expected the road surface becomes...oh here comes that bump yada yada. In the morning my commute rarely changes for the last 8 yrs. Thus, changes in bikes, equipment really make me VERY aware of subtle and not so subtle qualities of these parts / sums of the above. With me so far? Sooooo, this week for the first time in ages I am not riding my vanilla to work...resplendent with fat tubulars and lovely 3XVelocity Escape/DA wheelset. Instead I'm on my track bike with these old school 3x MA40s / low flange Campy hubs/ good quality clinchers (Veredestine Race) and I immed. appreciate that the ride is different....so I really "notice" what this feels like...aim for the road cracks...put a little extra umph in the bunny hop off the bridge expansion joint and NOTICE how the landing feels. You get the idea right? For straight up riding your bike not pushing hard similarities between the tubular wheelset and this considerately made clincher set are many.
davids
09-01-2006, 01:03 PM
DT Swiss R 1.1a with Campy or DTSwiss hubs (built for you - # of spokes and tension and cross specific for you) and veloflex paves. :beer: These be the best. - Matt
Yep.
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