Time to eliminate cash prizes in amateur racing?

[djg21]

Interesting take. I’ve always though cash prizes foolish, and that with their elimination, entry fees also could be capped, which would help to re-develop grass-roots interest in the sport.

https://www.tobedetermined.cc/journal/2017/6/why-is-there-prize-money-in-amateur-cycling

Using rough numbers CRCA paid out over $20,000 in prize money last year. By any measure that is a significant sum, equivalent to approximately 15% of total event registrations. This means that, assuming no change in registration levels, eliminating prize pools would allow a reduction in registration fees by as much as 15% with no impact on race financials. Alternatively, if the savings from eliminating prize pools were passed on exclusively to CRCA racing members the cost of membership could be cut by over 30% (CRCA season pass membership, which includes registration for the 12-race club series starts at just $100).

https://www.tobedetermined.cc/journal/2017/7/its-time-to-end-prize-money-in-amateur-cycling

On the core question of what should be done about prize pools the results were overwhelmingly supporting a change from the status quo: 81% participants indicated that prize pools should either exist for elite fields only or be eliminated altogether. That leaves just one in five respondents voicing support for the continuance of non-elite prize pools.

. . . .

Focusing on the breakdown by category (left) it's perhaps unsurprising that P/1/2 riders are most in favor of maintaining prize pools for elite fields with 84% of M P/1/2 respondents wanting to keep Elite prize pools in some fashion. In comparison M 3/4/5 respondents, who represent the vast majority of race participants (and thus registration fees) showed somewhat stronger support for eliminating prize pools altogether (orange bars).

Continuing this trend of voting with at least a partial eye (sic) for self-interest, in the age distribution chart to the above right M45+ racers showed the greatest support by far for eliminating prize pools altogether (orange bar).

[MattTuck]

I guess it depends on what your goal is for amateur cycling.

If it is just a venue for cyclists to have some friendly competition, I believe that there shouldn't be any prize money.

If you need to entice people from distance to participate, then it might make sense to have prize money.

If your goal is to develop new/young riders, focus prize money on junior races to give the most talented riders a chance to ride good equipment, work with a coach, etc.

If your goal is to support the local cycling scene, give out prize money in the form of gift cards redeemable at local bike shops.

I tend to come down in the camp that cycling is a recreational activity, and racing is something to do for fun and to test yourself against other cyclists. In this situation, I want the fields to have the highest level of parity possible. (ideally, all the cat 5 riders < all cat 4 riders < all cat 3 and so on). Eliminating any incentives (like cash prizes) for riders to drop to an easier category, or do shenanigans to avoid upgrades, drive 8 hours to a distant race to clean up for the weekend, is a good idea.

[earlfoss]

Let's see how long the first couple races to do this last.

But really, I think it's part of the institution of bike racing. There was a day when hungry amateurs could actually live off race winnings, and it enabled them to continue their season as they chased pro contracts. Racing was racing. Why decide that is wrong and kill it? Prize money is a grassroots effort that gives $$ directly to the racer. I feel like most community bike programs or whatever else is suggested would greatly dilute the effect per dollar. I sincerely doubt that no prize money would equal lower entry fees too. The costs to put on a race are increasing every season, and any team putting on a race usually depends on the income from their event(s) to fund their budgets.

As with most things, there's been a softening of the edges to racing and now freds want the spotlight. Enter the gran fondos, gravel races, and any other cycling discipline that isn't as mainstream (and ungodly difficult) as road racing. That's fine, and that's how things go. There's an argument for increasing participation in the sport and it's a valid one. If you wanted to race, you raced. Now people want to be in sanctioned events to live their fantasies without the actual pressure of racing.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I see blog posts like this and can't help but think it was written mostly to get shared on FB.

What is USAC road category racing these days? I don't even think USAC knows. They have a product, but they don't know how to market it. They have the additional hurdle of tradition and risk alienating membership for only the potential of attracting others.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head today while I kill time at work :)

[djg21]

Let's see how long the first couple races to do this last.

But really, I think it's part of the institution of bike racing. There was a day when hungry amateurs could actually live off race winnings, and it enabled them to continue their season as they chased pro contracts. Racing was racing. Why decide that is wrong and kill it? Prize money is a grassroots effort that gives $$ directly to the racer. I feel like most community bike programs or whatever else is suggested would greatly dilute the effect per dollar. I sincerely doubt that no prize money would equal lower entry fees too. The costs to put on a race are increasing every season, and any team putting on a race usually depends on the income from their event(s) to fund their budgets.

As with most things, there's been a softening of the edges to racing and now freds want the spotlight. Enter the gran fondos, gravel races, and any other cycling discipline that isn't as mainstream (and ungodly difficult) as road racing. That's fine, and that's how things go. There's an argument for increasing participation in the sport and it's a valid one. If you wanted to race, you raced. Now people want to be in sanctioned events to live their fantasies without the actual pressure of racing.

Maybe I'm a cynic, but I see blog posts like this and can't help but think it was written mostly to get shared on FB.

What is USAC road category racing these days? I don't even think USAC knows. They have a product, but they don't know how to market it. They have the additional hurdle of tradition and risk alienating membership for only the potential of attracting others.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head today while I kill time at work :)


The reality is that road racing is all but dead in this country. Prize money is one reason why: It’s just too expensive for promoters to pay out prize money, and arrange for road closures and pay for a police presence, insurance, promotion, etc.

Another bad call was on the part of USCF/USCycling. In the 80s and 90s each club was responsible for putting on some type a race or event. At some point, USCycling went away from this model to one where promoters put on races. This hasn’t worked well, and has eliminated opportunities to race.

[earlfoss]

It's not too expensive to put on a local race. With some proper planning it is still very doable. You only need to go into it understanding that you're not going to make a lot of money off the thing. If you do a good assessment of risk and plan your event around it, you can do just fine. It takes more work and organization than you think but it's worth it.

[djg21]

It's not too expensive to put on a local race. With some proper planning it is still very doable. You only need to go into it understanding that you're not going to make a lot of money off the thing. If you do a good assessment of risk and plan your event around it, you can do just fine. It takes more work and organization than you think but it's worth it.

Who wants to promote a race – putting in a lot of work and organization (and money) - if there’s no money to be made? This is one reason why local races are dying.

[redir]

I guess it depends on where you are from and what your state and local cycling governing bodies require but here in Virginia it is VERY expensive to put on a bike race. So much so that my team pretty much just gave up on it, prize money requirements and a lot of the extra's that VACycling puts on top of what USAC already requires and it was impossible to not put on a race without some very generous donors.

[earlfoss]

Redir, I agree with you there. Some municipalities in WI consider these events revenue streams and charge for permitting in line with that approach.

[pdonk]

I'll add.

Who wants to spend time organizing an event to only be criticized for any small Issue any one rider may think had an impact on their day? The spite and vitriol I've seen towards race organizers and volunteers astounds me, especially considering it's supposed to be fun.

[David Tollefson]

I've been on both sides of this, as an event promoter of one of the oldest races in the PacNW, a racer in the same (and many other) race, and as a sponsor. For this particular event, even with a well-oiled machine getting things done on the day, the local Chamber of Commerce behind the event, many, many years of tradition... very little money was made in the end (it was done as a benefit to Disabled Veterans). Permits were handled by the Chamber, but we still had to pay for them. The biggest single expense was for police patrol, even with a completely closed course.

And there's a huge sense of entitlement among the racers. Even when I was a racer, I was amazed at the expectation of a pay-out to Cat 4s. Frankly, it never made a difference to me whether there was money on the line in how I raced, or where. I looked for good courses and well-run events, with accurate results. Some of the best races I ever did paid nothing, and some of the worst were the "richest" in prize purse.

[sparky33]

Swag prizes seem about right for masters or 345 because beer and tshirts are more fun that pocket money.

Probably cash is still meaningful for p12 and juniors.

[MattTuck]

Swag prizes seem about right for masters or 345 because beer and tshirts are more fun that pocket money.

Probably cash is still meaningful for p12 and juniors.

Yes, and that gets back to what your goal is for a given race. As a spectator, maybe I would prioritize the P12 fields, as that is "better" racing. But as someone who cares more about development and 'broadening the base' (to borrow a tax term), I probably care more about bringing people in at the lower levels to introduce them to the sport (through lower reg fees, less intimidating field sizes, etc.).

I don't fully know the economics of putting on a race, so I imagine the marginal cost of doing another field is not huge (aside from the prize money). That said, it seems there are atleast 3 distinct aims that a race could have: developing young/new riders, catering to the masses/competitive spirit, being an exhibition for higher level racing. Maybe the economics make it such that organizers just shoot for all 3. To me, I'd like to see organizers be more explicit about what their race is trying to accomplish and shift their resources to reflect that.

[batman1425]

Who wants to promote a race – putting in a lot of work and organization (and money) - if there’s no money to be made? This is one reason why local races are dying.



For the support of the community. All the clubs I've been a part of, our goal was to break even. We put on a crit and a cross race each year. Typically we would break even and make a little bit to support our junior program, but some years it was breaking even only. Why do it? Because we like to race and so do the people in our community. We count on other clubs burning calories for little return like us to keep opportunities to race available. It's part of our responsibility as members of the racing community.

To the original point of prize money... at the 3/4/5 level, you better be a regular top 5 and targeting the big races and maybe you'll cover gas and food for race day. My
Most successfully years as a 3 and 4, with 6-10 top 10 finishes across the season some at big races with above average payouts, I still was like $250 in the hole after gas, food, fees, consumables, etc. For most racers I knew, prizes didn't bring people out unless they were really over the top, like the super-primes at Wheels on Willy in Madison. Heck I've seen people crash one another out in practice races for candy bar.

Racing is expensive. I'd be happy to give up payouts to help reduce fees while keeping the event quality high. Realistically, 95% of the fields are going home empty handed anyway.


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[T.J.]

I will admit when we look at the schedules to plan out races that payout is a deciding factor in where we would go. You can make decent pocket money off of P/1/2 payouts.

[batman1425]

I will admit when we look at the schedules to plan out races that payout is a deciding factor in where we would go. You can make decent pocket money off of P/1/2 payouts.



P/1/2 sure. Lower cats, not so much. Most cat 3 and 4 races i did had sub $50 payouts for the winner. Even if you are cleaning house every weekend, that's not going far if you are driving 100+miles to be there, etc. you have to be consistently successful at the lower levels to even make a dent in the costs.


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[54ny77]

This. It's so pervasive, I dunno where it comes from or started. Some of you dinosaurs might remember when it was a big deal to ride home with a new sewup as a prize or as a prime!

I've seen masters riders getting pissy about no payouts beyond [x] places, meanwhile they arrive to the races in their 6 figure bike-specific lifestyle vehicles and bust out the $5k carbon hoops for a 35 minute crit. That said, I do know a few racers who actually do depend on the payouts because they're broke, which is a whole different f'd up dynamic that speaks more to the individual than anything to do with bike racing.

Everyone's got different priorities. Or demons.



And there's a huge sense of entitlement among the racers. Even when I was a racer, I was amazed at the expectation of a pay-out to Cat 4s. Frankly, it never made a difference to me whether there was money on the line in how I raced, or where. I looked for good courses and well-run events, with accurate results. Some of the best races I ever did paid nothing, and some of the worst were the "richest" in prize purse.

[45K10]

I haven't done a road race in the states for a few years now but I used to enjoy getting a check at the end of the race. Most times you split it with your team-mates and it made everyone feel good.

The two small stage races I put on were a royal pain and it would have been nice if I wouldn't have had to deal with the payouts and subsequent bitching about the payouts. So I can see both sides but like previously mentioned I highly doubt getting rid of payouts is going to lower registration fees.

All of the MTB races I have done always paid out in SWAG except for the Elite fields. I liked that too except for when you got stuck with some ugly XS socks or a saddlebag that looked like my granny's purse.

[redir]

Some of the last couple of races I came in the money in were so poorly attended I told the promoter to just keep the cash. I don't think prize money or lack there of is why race attendances are dropping to an all time low.

[saab2000]

Considering the time and investment in equipment and driving, I doubt even the best, most successful amateurs make any money.

It was NEVER a deciding factor when I raced, but I also knew that I would rarely be in the money as I hated unchallenging 50 lap criteriums with a massive and dangerous field sprint at the finish.

I raced to race, not because I thought I was going to win a few bucks. When I raced in Europe it was dirt cheap (like $10) because there was no prize money. People were trying to move up the ranks and raced for the sake of racing.

[T.J.]

I hated unchallenging 50 lap criteriums with a massive and dangerous field sprint at the finish.

Unchallenging ? I must be doing it wrong

[saab2000]

Unchallenging ? I must be doing it wrong

Middle of the pack is easy riding! :D

[godukes]

Payout in a race other than a p1/2 is the equivalent of payout in church-league softball.

just because you got a fancy bike and a "kit" doesn't make you Marcel Kittel (plus that dude has got like awesome hair).

[Tandem Rider]

As a starving 2 in the 80's, winnings were part of my needed income, racing several races per week on the cornfield circuit it was possible. Sponsor's dictates, payouts, and course layout determined my schedule, I needed to make $. I'm pretty sure that's still the same with some guys.

As a master racer, it's fun to divide up winnings, but none of us need the bucks, it's just part of the fabric of the sport. I would be just as happy splitting up a 6-pack of beer or a plate of cookies. It's the immediate, in-the-moment experience of a fun race.

[nicrump]

i dont get a flip about payout. i want $10 entries back in play.

[saab2000]

i dont get a flip about payout. i want $10 entries back in play.

This. In Michigan I used to participate in a summer race series. It was unsanctioned and unofficial and every bit as hard as USAC racing. It was $15, which covered the cost of the auto race track on which the races were held. Prizes were pretty much bragging rights and on a good night a bag of cookies the organizer's wife may have made.

This still exists, has As and Bs and it's way more fun than the BS at a USAC/USCF criterium.

[unterhausen]

yeah, back in the late '70s, the Madison Wi. weekly race was a lot of fun. Of course, that was a real high-class field back then. One week, George Mount showed up. I don't think he won. It was free, just show up.

I was lamenting race entry fees recently. They should be free for Juniors. When I raced, $5 entry was the norm. That would be about $20 nowadays.

[David Tollefson]

...you have to be consistently successful at the lower levels to even make a dent in the costs.

And thus, the sand-bagger.

[batman1425]

yeah, back in the late '70s, the Madison Wi. weekly race was a lot of fun. Of course, that was a real high-class field back then. One week, George Mount showed up. I don't think he won. It was free, just show up.

I was lamenting race entry fees recently. They should be free for Juniors. When I raced, $5 entry was the norm. That would be about $20 nowadays.



There is still a weekly crit series. A and B groups. $5 but if you volunteer to corner marshal for the group you aren't racing in, it's free. The A group is no joke. The local fast guys regularly show and a few pros have been known to drop by when they are around.


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[batman1425]

And thus, the sand-bagger.



Yep. In reality you can only do that for a season or two, then the upgrades sort it out. Well you can do it indefinitely if you don't care about sandbagging. I did well cash wise the season I went from 4 to 3. Lots of good results as a 4 that year, not so much as a 3. [emoji3]


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[MattTuck]

Yep. In reality you can only do that for a season or two, then the upgrades sort it out. Well you can do it indefinitely if you don't care about sandbagging. I did well cash wise the season I went from 4 to 3. Lots of good results as a 4 that year, not so much as a 3. [emoji3]


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Yes, that is the crux of it. What's the point of paying out to an individual in cat 4, who could legitimately be riding cat 3 races? What sort of incentive does that create? Granted, some people may just like the feeling of winning, and sand bag for that reason alone -- regardless of the money. But why add to the already mis-aligned incentives.

[batman1425]

Yes, that is the crux of it. What's the point of paying out to an individual in cat 4, who could legitimately be riding cat 3 races? What sort of incentive does that create? Granted, some people may just like the feeling of winning, and sand bag for that reason alone -- regardless of the money. But why add to the already mis-aligned incentives.



I agree. I think the forced upgrade could be a little more rigorous. I knew lots of guys that would stop racing for the season when they got close to the automatic upgrade threshold. Bunch of BS, but that's a different story.

The reality is, nobody today is making ends meet racing as a cat 3/4/5. Below 2, this is a hobby we enjoy doing, some more seriously than others. If ditching payouts makes entries cheaper so I can race more, I'm all for it. $30 for a win doesn't move the needle at the end of the fiscal year, but I'd get a lot more than $30 worth of fun out of being able to do 3 or 4 more races.




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[earlfoss]

There is still a weekly crit series. A and B groups. $5 but if you volunteer to corner marshal for the group you aren't racing in, it's free. The A group is no joke. The local fast guys regularly show and a few pros have been known to drop by when they are around.


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There's also a ride that starts and ends at the Capital Brewery beer garden twice a week. The entire spectrum of cyclists shows up too which is awesome. Everyone from beginner, to cat 1 and former pro.

The post ride vibe in the beer garden is pretty great. There's nothing like smashing yourself for little over an hour with some friends on a hot day, and wrapping it up at the garden having a laugh.

[Mark McM]

Racing at the amateur level (and particularly at the cat. 3/4/5 low amateur level) is not something anyone must do. And as mentioned, nobody is making a living, or even getting their expenses back, from prize money. But what prize money does do for a lot of people is to add some type of (psychological) validation to their efforts. Some form of tangible reward, even of a token value, provides some people with their incentive.

Intellectually, I think we all agree that lower level amateur racing prize money doesn't make a practical difference in racer's finances - most racers spend far more money on their racing 'habit' than they will ever win back. But the elimination of prize money in races would probably dis-incent certain people from entering those races, and that drop in participation in those races would further dis-incent other people who are only racing for bragging rights.

The human ego is a strange and not particularly rational thing, but the ability to feed it is often a necessity to draw racers to races.

[54ny77]

as an aside, for those of you active in your respective local racing scene, what are you seeing in the junior ranks? thin, decent, full?

[peanutgallery]

Someone earlier in the thread hit the nail on the head, Municipalities see events as a way to make $. In the 80s and 90s it was a gimme to get municipal support at a low cost because the race was bringing a show. The cost is probably out of hand as there is more accountability as to where a municipality's resources are allocated. The cost is too great in many areas, prize list or no

Though, prize money is a PIA and kinda needless below Pro 1/2. I will admit, I always enjoyed cashing my $12 check from Gene Dixon at a liquor store

[batman1425]

There's also a ride that starts and ends at the Capital Brewery beer garden twice a week. The entire spectrum of cyclists shows up too which is awesome. Everyone from beginner, to cat 1 and former pro.



The post ride vibe in the beer garden is pretty great. There's nothing like smashing yourself for little over an hour with some friends on a hot day, and wrapping it up at the garden having a laugh.



I remember that ride. There was also the Tuesday bomb hosted by the Bombay bicycles folks and the UW kids I raced with while I was in grad school would do a Wednesday worlds that used a 50ish mile loop south of town via Belleville which rapidly degenerated in to a full throttle death march. Hurt like he!!, but made you fast! So much good riding happening all the time around there. And there is a race every weekend from April to November no more than 2 hours away. Great place to be a cyclist! Miss living there a lot.


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[zap]

edit

As a starving 2 in the 80's, winnings were part of my needed income, racing several races per week on the cornfield circuit it was possible. Sponsor's dictates, payouts, and course layout determined my schedule, I needed to make $. I'm pretty sure that's still the same with some guys.

I recall several competitors needing the cash and prizes as well. But no cash in cat 4 races.

[djg21]

edit



I recall several competitors needing the cash and prizes as well. But no cash in cat 4 races.

My take is that cash prizes are fine for elite, i.e., Pro-1-2 fields. If you are a lower category rider who wants to race for money or who needs cash prizes to eat, you either upgrade, or come to the conclusion that cycling is an avocation and decide whether you want to race just for fun.

[saab2000]

Amateur racers who say they need the prize money make me laugh. There's no way they're making more money racing weekend criterium events than they would in a real job.

If a non-salaried racer can make back his/her expenses on an annual basis I'd be very surprised.

[zap]

Amateur racers who say they need the prize money make me laugh. There's no way they're making more money racing weekend criterium events than they would in a real job.

If a non-salaried racer can make back his/her expenses on an annual basis I'd be very surprised.

Supplemental.

Some of the kids were going to college (full or part time and paying for it) and working (full or part time making 6-7 bucks). What little prize money there was may have paid for the entry fee and gas money to the event.

[peanutgallery]

Whenever I hear this I suggest to the individual that they invest their entry fees in golf lessons as it will pay out better in the long run...if that's their end goal

Amateur racers who say they need the prize money make me laugh. There's no way they're making more money racing weekend criterium events than they would in a real job.

If a non-salaried racer can make back his/her expenses on an annual basis I'd be very surprised.

[carpediemracing]

In the old days it was possible to pay for a season of racing with prize money. I remember one Cat 3 race where first place was $900. At the time my entire bike, with nice race wheels was about $1200. I got 4th and $90 I think, or maybe it was $125. The best riders were often current national crit champions in their age group so beating them was sort of impossible as they were among the best in the country. They'd also do the Masters races and win/place in one or two more races on the same day.

However nowadays there's no way you could make back the cost of entries and travel unless you were the best sandbagger in the world.

Also anyone racing carbon anything probably can afford to do a few races without winning prize money.

I do think prizes are good, whatever they are. I have no idea where I spent my prize money before, say, 2010, but I have a few trinkets and stuff from one race in 1985 and I run across them every now and then I grin and I think, "man, that was a fun day of racing". From 2010 on any prize money went into my wallet and I either paid for future entires for it or covered some "at race" food type stuff.

The costs of putting on races is just too high nowadays. It's why I "retired", which I didn't really think of (I was thinking "I quit") until I read the post and it said that that's what I did.

[saab2000]

Supplemental.

Some of the kids were going to college (full or part time and paying for it) and working (full or part time making 6-7 bucks). What little prize money there was may have paid for the entry fee and gas money to the event.

That's how it was for me. I raced because I enjoyed it. Anything I won was gravy.

[shovelhd]

as an aside, for those of you active in your respective local racing scene, what are you seeing in the junior ranks? thin, decent, full?

Junior racing in the Northeast is pretty strong on the road, and twice as strong in cross. However, the demographic math doesn't add up. There's still 2x-4x M50+ riders than Juniors. Add in the M40+, and it's pretty clear that Juniors are not going to save road racing. It's purely math.

As for prize money, I've been very appreciative of the cost offset that my winnings provided. It does make a difference in an expensive sport. However, I'm on board with the elimination of prize money for amateurs (non-elite, Cat 3/4/5). That said, prize money isn't a huge factor in the race I promote. The costs that stress us are the costs that cannot be avoided as a USAC race. Officials, police, safety, support, and administration.

[carpediemracing]

That said, prize money isn't a huge factor in the race I promote. The costs that stress us are the costs that cannot be avoided as a USAC race. Officials, police, safety, support, and administration.

+1

The debate with prize money or equality in prizes is a red herring.

The real problem is that the base cost of promoting a race has gotten too high compared to maximum perceived entry fees.

[gdw]

Whenever I hear this I suggest to the individual that they invest their entry fees in golf lessons as it will pay out better in the long run...if that's their end goal

+1. A competent consistent golfer who can perform under pressure can earn some serious cash on the links.

[Tandem Rider]

+1

The debate with prize money or equality in prizes is a red herring.

The real problem is that the base cost of promoting a race has gotten too high compared to maximum perceived entry fees.

This is it in a nutshell.

MrsTR put on a TT series every year for 5 or 6 years. $10 entry fee. Merchandise (beer, pastries, gift certificates) for prizes, all donated. She also had a cooler full of cold beers and cold waters for everyone while results were being tabulated. I think she cleared about $75 for her time, all years combined. She did it because she loves racing, and wanted it to be fun. Otherwise, it amounts to something less than 10 cents an hour.

[benb]

I guess I'm in the camp of "no cash prizes except P/1/2".

Anyone who is talented enough to need to be "developed" and earn some money to keep things going is probably going to go Cat 5 -> Cat 2 extremely quickly, like a year or something. I remember starting out racing as a 5 and we had one guy on our team who did that. The rest of us were under 0 illusions that was going to happen to us.

I was doing this mostly in the mid 2000s, even then we all had bikes that were expensive enough that there was no way in hell any of us were going to "break even" if we started winning. And that was when basically none of us had carbon anything.

I still say there is an attitude problem too and maybe de-emphasizing the prizes and competitiveness at Cat 3/4/5 levels would help us get to a more friendly sport like Triathlon and Running, AFAICT they are in a way healthier place than cycling and participants are probably happier.

I actually feel like the sport was a lot more fun when it was more underground before it "blew up", and also that road may just be waning. From my perspective MTB was king, than road became ascendant from 2000-2005 due to the Lance factor and it's basically been fading since then. People I knew were already becoming more excited for Cross than road back then, and it's only gotten moreso since Gravel became a thing. IMO this has something to do with the attitude.

I won a bunch of little stuff. Can't remember anything about the cash. My favorite things to win were trinkets that helped me remember the race. Probably my favorite things I won were pint glasses with the race logo on them. Cash was always forgotten by the next week. The pint glasses are still my favorite swag item from the fondo style events too.