Campy opinions?

[Bobbo]

After several years of shimano-only race bikes, I'm going to build up my currently idle Concours with campy, just for something different. The new campy crankset/bb is out of my price range at the chorus/record level, so I'm wondering if I'm better off with an alloy record-chorus/square taper setup, or the new 2007 crank, probably at the centaur level (since I believe this will be the best level available in alloy).

I know that technology travels downhill, so will a 2007 centaur crank be better than a 2006 alloy record crank w/ square taper bb? Thanks for the opinions.

[Marcusaurelius]

After several years of shimano-only race bikes, I'm going to build up my currently idle Concours with campy, just for something different. The new campy crankset/bb is out of my price range at the chorus/record level, so I'm wondering if I'm better off with an alloy record-chorus/square taper setup, or the new 2007 crank, probably at the centaur level (since I believe this will be the best level available in alloy).

I know that technology travels downhill, so will a 2007 centaur crank be better than a 2006 alloy record crank w/ square taper bb? Thanks for the opinions.

Well I use a 10 speed Dura ace crank with my chorus 10 speed parts and it works great. I also use an ultegra 10 speed crank with centaur 9 speed parts and it works great as well. I intially had a 2005 record alloy crank and square taper crank but quickly switched to the dura ace. The dura ace works much better for me and is a great boost when I hammer on the flats or going up hills.

[coylifut]

me thinks the Campy alloy crank is one of the most elegant looking cycling components ever. just my take.

[KevinK]

No contest. Go with the alloy Campy Record. I think it is the best crankset ever made, both in appearance and function.

Kevin

[bigbill]

A silver centaur group with an alloy record crankset would look great. The alloy record cranksets are really reasonable except at Performance ($229!!!!). I have seen them regularly at $150-180. Use a chorus bottom bracket, the only difference between it and record is the weight.

[Needs Help]

I know that technology travels downhill, so will a 2007 centaur crank be better than a 2006 alloy record crank w/ square taper bb?
Don't buy first generation of anything.

[Dave]

I'd go with the Centaur level ultra-torque crank. Campy is known for solid engineering and the new ultra torque looks to have eliminated the common problems with outboard bearing cranks, with more substantial bearings and a left crank arm that does not clamp to the axle.

Aftermarket Enduro bearings are available to improve on the durability of Shimano outboard cranks. For some reason, Shimano chose to use smaller balls than can be fit onto the axle.

http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id101.html

[znfdl]

A silver centaur group with an alloy record crankset would look great. The alloy record cranksets are really reasonable except at Performance ($229!!!!). I have seen them regularly at $150-180. Use a chorus bottom bracket, the only difference between it and record is the weight.

Splurge for a Phil Wood BB for any square taper crank, you will not regret it. I was only getting 5K miles on my campy bbs.

[Avispa]

I say, check out the Net, including eBay!

You will be surprised as how cheap these Campy '06 groups are going....
Full carbon and all. Alloy does not have the "cool" factor.

[Benjamin]

I'd go with the Centaur level ultra-torque crank. Campy is known for solid engineering and the new ultra torque looks to have eliminated the common problems with outboard bearing cranks, with more substantial bearings and a left crank arm that does not clamp to the axle.

likewise. i haven't heard any first-hand reviews of the ultra-torque stuff yet, but given campy's history, reliability, and the fact that they're improving on an existing concept here, i'd be willing to shell out for a u-t crankset.

looks like you can pick up the 07 centaur crankset for around $180 - right around what the 06 chorus alloy retailed for, and just a few bucks more than it goes for now.

the outboard BB cups sell for $30. not bad at all.

[zank]

I just built up my first 07 Campagnolo equipped bike. It was a Centaur kit. I will post a full pictorial and my observations from the build tonight.

I think the UT crank is really nice. It was very easy to assemble and it looks great. Of course, I can't comment on longevity, but the quality is top notch.

More details and pics coming soon.

[djcwardog]

I have the group just waiting to go on my next build. Perhaps a Schwinn 1999 parmount frame...or a CSI 60cm currently up at auction on ebay...

I realy like the look of the alloy cranks and I bought this level of Campy because it looked to be the best level that stays with an alloy crank. Cool retro look with the latest technology imbedded...excellent!

I ordered an IRD 11-28 for Campy wheels from IRD. That plus the Centaur 53-39 ought to give me a good gear range.

[orbea65]

I believe totalcycling has oem campy chorus alloy cranks for like 85 bucks...

[BumpyintheBurgh]

Just built up my Waterford 2200 with Campy Centaur Silver compact double group and couldn't be happier. Shifting is crisp and smooth, and I wanted the classic silver look which goes with the red/white Waterford frame. Got the parts from Ribble Cycles and Total Cycling, the best prices that I could find on the internet.
I have Campy Record carbon on my Calfee and Campy Chorus on my Legend and to be honest I can't tell the difference in performance from the Centaur.
I think the Centaur groupset is the best bargain if you are going with Campy. With Record, you are buying the name/status and a llittle weight loss for a premium price without a corresponding increase in peformance compared to Centaur.

[Grant McLean]

With Record, you are buying the name/status and a llittle weight loss for a premium price without a corresponding increase in peformance compared to Centaur.

Generallly, it's called "the law of diminishing returns"...

It's not so much that price of record is jacked up because of the name,
but the processes and materials involved cost more. Machined vs stamped
parts, and titanium cogs and hardware do indeed add quite a bit to the cost
without a huge increase in performance.

If you're looking for high performace and good value, don't buy the top end of anything....

g

[steelrider]

No contest. Go with the alloy Campy Record. I think it is the best crankset ever made, both in appearance and function.

Kevin

Hear, hear! I fully agree. Simply lovely, and so functional and strong.

[Bobbo]

Thanks for the replies everyone! I'll probably go old school with Record or Chorus alloy and square taper bb. A classic setup to go with what's sure to become a classic frameset (Concours Ti w/ F1).

[Brons2]

I have a Record Alloy crank with 180mm arms, it's a good setup. Recently had to replace my Record BB and chose to go Chorus instead. Likewise, I have also replaced my Record short cage rear-der with a Chorus long cage I got from a Serotta forum member!

So I have gone from all Record to mostly Chorus and I can say the functionality is just as good.

I say, check out the Net, including eBay!

You will be surprised as how cheap these Campy '06 groups are going....
Full carbon and all. Alloy does not have the "cool" factor.

Cool is in the eye of the beholder. I have removed every carbon bit I once had on my bike. The last piece was the Record short-cage. The Chorus is alloy and it looks much better. Overall, the bike looks beautiful with alloy components and a lugged steel frame and and draws lots of compliments.

[bigbill]

Splurge for a Phil Wood BB for any square taper crank, you will not regret it. I was only getting 5K miles on my campy bbs.

Absolutely, I was thinking of budget choices. I have a PW stainless 103mm for the old DA crankset for my commuter. It is not in my commuter because I broke the frame (Soma). New Gunnar on the way. I did trash the bb earlier this year while commuting in 43 straight days of rain. Sent it to PW and $35 later, just like new. Definately the way to go (102mm) for campy.

[stevep]

. Campy is known for solid engineering and the new ultra torque looks to have eliminated the common problems with outboard bearing cranks,
http://www.enduroforkseals.com/id101.html

maybe not so great engineering. a lot of current campagnolo product is market deriviative.... brakes, cassette hubs, sealed hubs, prebuilt wheels, ramped shifting, external bearing bbs, oversize bb spindles ( now, finally) dual pivot brakes... all done much earlier by companies with more aggressive engineering departments and all have withstood the rigors of use.
i accept that they are well known for quality manufacture and certainly top notch finish... but the engineering is 2nd rate.... its more like.." hey, we can make something like that too! lets do it! "

haha, wake up campyphiles out there.

[Dave]

maybe not so great engineering. a lot of current campagnolo product is market deriviative.... brakes, cassette hubs, sealed hubs, prebuilt wheels, ramped shifting, external bearing bbs, oversize bb spindles ( now, finally) dual pivot brakes... all done much earlier by companies with more aggressive engineering departments and all have withstood the rigors of use.
i accept that they are well known for quality manufacture and certainly top notch finish... but the engineering is 2nd rate.... its more like.." hey, we can make something like that too! lets do it! "

haha, wake up campyphiles out there.

Better to be second with a well engineered product than first with a flawed one. I've read a great many reports of bearing adjustment and longevity problems and left cranks coming loose with both FSA and Shimano outboard cranks. Apparently neither brand is withstanding the "rigors of use" perfectly.

Perhaps you've forgotten that Campy introduced 10 speed four years ahead of Shimano. I'm on my 7th season with Campy 10 speed and never had a single problem with it.

Perhaps you're not aware that Campy redesigned their hubs with oversize axles about 7 years ahead of Shimano, in 1997. They also deepened the cassette body splines to permit the practical use of aluminum cassette bodies at the same time. Shimano finally did the same in 2004, but only on the DA hub, with a setup that's quite similar to Campy. Apparently Shimano can follow and copy too.

Campy was second in brake/shift lever introduction too, but they have levers that are lighter, much cheaper, repairable and have much better control of the front deraileur (only fully appreciated by triple crank users). Oh yes, they also have nicely hidden cables. Maybe with SRAM in competittion, Shimano will be market driven to make a change from those huge ugly shifters.

As for dual pivot brakes (now finally???), you're getting into ancient history there. It's been dual pivot since 1995 or earlier. Campy wisely switched back to a lighter single pivot rear brake quite a few years ago. This greatly reduces the chance of locking up a rear wheel. The front wheel does about 75% of the braking, so having identical front and rear brakes makes no sense. You won't find a car or motorcycle with identical front and rear braking capacity.

Campy may sometimes be slow to change, but the engineering is not 2nd rate, unless you can site longevity or performance issues.

[atmo]

Perhaps you're not aware that Campy redesigned their hubs with oversize axles about 7 years ahead of Campy , in 1997.


i knew that atmo.

[saab2000]

If not for the mass marketing of Shimano and some of the technology that they either invented or brought to the mass market we would still be riding very shiny, beautiful, functional Record components with friction shifting and 7-speed freewheels.

Not that that would necessarily be a bad thing, but Campagnolo has mostly followed others' lead for the past 20 years or so.

I use Campagnolo and love it, but I also know that I would be riding a bike a lot like my old Grandis from 1987 with period stuff if not for the market pressure from Shimano. The inovations that they have brought to market have improved Campagnolo's product immensely.

Competition benefits everyone. Except Suntour I guess.

[stevep]

who would think this would be controversial?

[flydhest]

I use Campy and love it, but that's only because the current batch of stuff works great for me. Those at the Finger Lakes Ramble got to listen to a good deal of discourse from Mike Barry, perhaps the single best repository of bicycle knowledge around. The reputation for good engineering or whatever that is being ascribed to Campy in this thread would have been laughed at by Mike over some of the eras in the post-War era. Dogma and generalizations are funny, in my ho. Mike's 55 years of using all the stuff in the industry is enough cred for me.

[Bobbo]

Hey guys, remember this was a campy vs. campy thread, NOT campy vs. shimano! Although I suspected that it would make a turn down this dark path. Oh well, boys will be boys. Have at it, guys!

[flydhest]

Good point Bobbo.

I'll add the following. Campy Centaur is great stuff. It works as well as the other lines.

[saab2000]

It's only controversial at a microscopic level. Arguing about bike parts is fun. Arguing about politics is controversial and ugly.

So if it is Campy vs Shimano it's all fun. A third party is entering this cage match anyway.

I use only Campagnolo because it is what I know, but without Shimano Campagnolo would never have moved forward.

I am not an engineer so I can't speak about engineering.

[Grant McLean]

I use Campy and love it, but that's only because the current batch of stuff works great for me. Those at the Finger Lakes Ramble got to listen to a good deal of discourse from Mike Barry, perhaps the single best repository of bicycle knowledge around. The reputation for good engineering or whatever that is being ascribed to Campy in this thread would have been laughed at by Mike over some of the eras in the post-War era. Dogma and generalizations are funny, in my ho. Mike's 55 years of using all the stuff in the industry is enough cred for me.

...and we all know what brand of shifters mike uses ;)

http://www.mariposabicycles.com/bike-for-mountains.html

g

[steelrider]

maybe not so great engineering. a lot of current campagnolo product is market deriviative.... brakes, cassette hubs, sealed hubs, prebuilt wheels, ramped shifting, external bearing bbs, oversize bb spindles ( now, finally) dual pivot brakes... all done much earlier by companies with more aggressive engineering departments and all have withstood the rigors of use.
i accept that they are well known for quality manufacture and certainly top notch finish... but the engineering is 2nd rate.... its more like.." hey, we can make something like that too! lets do it! "

haha, wake up campyphiles out there.

Trite statements do not make for fact. When your lost in space ShimaNO stuff leaves you stranded on the road, after pushing your plastic bike home, maybe you'll be the one going ha, ha (as you say) when you ask for a rebuild quotation from the LBS.

[catulle]

Campagnolo is the very Urstoff of cycling. Anything else is, well, something else. :banana:

[atmo]

Campagnolo is the very Urstoff of cycling. Anything else is, well, something else. :banana:

Campagnolo ifsp
Shimano etij

[orbea65]

I've always thought the C-Record cranks of the late 80's early 90's, and the late model Delta brakes, were the nicest -looking- parts ever made.
That said, the deltas weren't the best for performance. And truth be told, I think Shimano has always performed a little better/accurate, and they've been ahead of Campy in terms of new development for a long time.

[Erik.Lazdins]

Competition improves the breed. Shimano, and now, SRAM will keep Campy from resting on its laurels. Conversely, Shimano and SRAM cannot rest either.

We all know Campy missed it from time to time over the years, yet one fact remains - they have a flair, an art, an emotion in their product that I have not seen, or felt on Shimano.

I love the feel, the actuation, the sounds of a campy drivetrain. I love that I have a bottle opener that Tullio drew up. I love the story of Campagnolo.

Shimano works great in my opinion, but Campagnolo has a flair!

[97CSI]

Have 22K miles on the square-taper PW Ti BB on a couple of different Campy cranksets (Record and then Centaur). Continue to ride it with my current Centaur-triple (I like the fact that can slide the spindle to adjust the chainline) and is as smooth and nice as it was when new in 2000. That said, I am very impressed with the new Centaur BB I just installed in my other frame. Only about 500 miles thus far, but is very nice. For the price, I'd get another one.

[stevep]

Trite statements do not make for fact. When your lost in space ShimaNO stuff leaves you stranded on the road, after pushing your plastic bike home, maybe you'll be the one going ha, ha (as you say) when you ask for a rebuild quotation from the LBS.

trite statement? that would be a simple view from a limited viewpoint.
what did i say that you find objectionable? or not true?
that campy came late to cassette hubs? dual pivot brakes? ramped shifting?
outsize bearing located outside the bb shell and an oversize spindle?
sealed bearings? prebuilt wheels?
which was not a fact? please correct my errors.
my criticism was the engineering shown by campagnolo...never the construction..which i believe is generally excellent quality...
how about the design/engineering that brought us delta brakes? syncro 1 & 2?
the campy mt bike entire group? remember the early campy clipless pedal? i forget the model name... it was a design catastrophe... even valentino smiles when it is mentioned. these products are almost ridiculous... and they were brought to market. any comments on these? other than you probably love delta brakes despite the fact that they dont work, weigh a ton and are incredibly expensive and as the crowning glory... they require a 3.5 mm allen key to change the cable... this allen key is virtually unavailable to purchase in the us... perfect.

i also note from your name that you like steel bikes... they can be good. you should also show some modest respect for bike riders who choose other materials... personally it does not matter to me... but it shows you as of very limited experience in the bike game. im willing to bet i have owned a lot more premium quality steel race bikes that you have and these days i still have at least one in the fleet....so disrespect them i do not. but these days the bike of choice happens to be carbon....or you can call it plastic if you get an inaccurate charge out of that.
i say...grow up a little steelman. its just bike stuff...as saab says... recreation not really important in any scheme... relax and enjoy it...
i recommend that you go back and reread my post and then address anything that you believe to be untrue. otherwise...let it go.

[shinomaster]

http://cbike.com/campagnolo_chorus.htm

[atmo]

Shimano works great in my opinion, but Campagnolo has a flair!

judging -perceiving
extrovert - introvert
sensing - intuitive
thinking - feeling

[oracle]

judging -perceiving
extrovert - introvert
sensing - intuitive
thinking - feeling


that's crazy deep

[atmo]

that's crazy deep
depth worked for the chairman of the board atmo.

[oracle]

depth worked for the chairman of the board atmo.

i thought that it was his pipes and his connections..

[atmo]

i thought that it was his pipes and his connections..
ya see -
that's the difference between us.
judging - perceiving atmo

[Serpico]

...

but Campagnolo has a flair!
:beer:
.

[oracle]

ya see -
that's the difference between us.
judging - perceiving atmo


c' mon be a uniter, not a divider!

[catulle]

Campagnolo ifsp
Shimano etij

Yeah, baby, Leonardo was an ifsp too.