Dammit, I'm tired of cyclists blowing through stop signs

[Elefantino]

I don't unless I'm in a large group, and then not even then if there are lots of cars. I just don't. I don't put a foot down, but I slow to an almost track stand. If the group drops me, I catch up.

Sometimes I expect too much of others.

Driving home, at a T intersection and I'm turning left onto the through street, which is a "bicycle boulevard." Cyclist in work clothes runs the stop sign as I head into the intersection, swerves like mad to avoid me (just does by probably millimeters, somehow without falling over) and rides on.

If I'd gunned the accelerator I'd have had the cyclist impaled on my front-right quarter panel, seriously injured, maybe dead.

On this particular bicycle boulevard, which many cyclists use to get out of downtown Berkeley, stop signs appear to be more of a suggestion than law. I've been run up on front behind while riding on the street myself. I have tried to educate other riders who I see behaving badly, usually with a friendly "hey, you know ..." and I am usually ignored, sometimes laughed at, occasionally cussed at.

I'm tired of idiots riding like idiots. They **** off drivers and those of us who ride sensibly often incur the wrath of angry drivers that have had bad experiences. As more and more people ride, and if they ride irresponsibly, there will be more accidents that are the fault of the cyclist. I will feel most sad for the innocent driver who will be devastated for an accident that isn't their fault.

We as a community have to do a better job of policing and educating ourselves. There are already too many accidents involving cars and cyclists, most that are the fault of the driver. We don't need to up the ante by riding like ***holes.

Sorry for the rant. This one really shook me up today.

[pbarry]

I agree completely. The scufflaws make us all look like jerks. Yes, the potential for affecting others by innattention or conscious ignorance of street signs is a great point. Thank for posting your thoughts.

[martinez]

I feel ya. Unfortunately just as some drivers continue to text/check socials while driving...some riders will continue to ride recklessly. :no:

[FriarQuade]

If you want respect on the road you must obey basic traffic laws. This means riding on the proper side of the road, stopping at signs, yielding at round abouts and so on. It's not rocket science.

[thwart]

See it all the time.

I don't think these 'cyclists' really appreciate the anger generated among drivers by their behavior. Or the potential consequences.

Lots of folks here in Cheesehead-land despise road bikers. There's enough bad blood that my wife on some level believes someone deliberately took me out two yrs ago.

We don't do ourselves any favors by running stop signs, riding three abreast in traffic, and generally acting like we own the road.

[ultraman6970]

The problem with accidents is not only drivers, some cyclists really suck at riding in the streets aswell. I do get why the drivers get mad and wants to get rid off all cyclists but at the same time as a driver, you have to do your best to ensure non of this idiots riding their bikes like crazy arent killied at least by you/me.

[eddief]

and then let Darwin take care of those who ride without a mirror or those who choose not to ride single file. Tough to be responsible for the whole community of cyclists and drivers. We're not talking about rocket science but simply basic manners and survival.

[John H.]

I agree with you.

Yesterday I drove my scooter to the next town over to purchase some bread.

There are probably 8 stop signs on that trip.

I saw at least 8 riders run stop signs on my trip. And not kids either- people who should know better.

Cyclists wonder why they don't get respect. You have to give it, to get it.

I am under the opinion that rides in California can't take the responsibility with an "Idaho Stop"- If they don't stop now, they will just go full speed if they feel protected.

[gasman]

They make me crazy here also. I've also found that even when I'm on my bike and I say something as non-threatening as " You know the traffic laws apply to us also. " I just get attitude or a blank stare in return.

I know we are part of the problem but so many riders need to be educated but have no interest in doing so. That may be in part because I live in a college town and it is mostly student-aged riders that are the worst offenders. Heck, the homeless guys are better at following the law.

[martinez]

One tip, which I'm sure you all know to do...
just drive defensively and always be aware of your surroundings

[rounder]

I agree that cyclists should obey the rules, but some rules are not clear cut. For example, where I live (Maryland) it is sort of country and not all roads are through streets.

There are some intersections where there will be a traffic light that is red and cars will be coming from the left, but they can only turn left or right but cannot go straight because the road does not go through.

On club rides, if there is a shoulder and it seems safe to go, we will not stop but continue to go straight through the red light. I am not sure, but believe the club policy might be right to go through the red light. You are not allowed to do that with a car though and I believe that motorists stopped at the intersection will assume that the crazy cyclists are disobeying the rules.

[FlashUNC]

The cyclist shouldn't have run the sign, but the Bicycle Boulevards are actively designed to discourage through car traffic and encourage bike traffic, giving them a remove from the major arteries that they run parallel to. If you're a sign running cyclist, better on the bike boulevard than the main streets around Berkeley.

Which T were you at? Milvia and Russell?

[mhespenheide]

Totally agree. Learn how to track stand, put a foot down, or at least slow down a whole heck of a lot.

Otherwise you're just pissing off motorists who are gonna take it out on me sometime later...

[Elefantino]

No. At Berkeley High. I was turning left onto Milvia. A car was stopped at the stop sign. The cyclist blew right through.

I don't take Milvia on my rides home, usually, because of all the crazies. I take Grant to Russell. No traffic, no hipsters.

[saab2000]

I mostly ride alone now. It's way less stressful.

[Dead Man]

Maybe bro just messed up, op. Sometimes people make mistakes. Maybe he's an inexperienced rider and had a moment of confusion. Maybe he's an experienced rider and just drank too much last night, decided he should t be driving to work and took the bike instead.

I don't remember who said it, I think maybe even a drill sergeant in the army ... ? "Never attribute malice where stupidity provides ample explanation." we are intelligent people who make good decision s most of the time, but every once in a while we do something stupid in a moment of carelessness, thoughtlessness, errorinjudgmentness, etc.... and it's the exception to our rule, despite the fact that everyone else who witnesses it immediately snaps to the conclusion that we're just deliberate ass hats.

[DRZRM]

+1

i mostly ride alone now. It's way less stressful.

[John H.]

Fact- I rarely have issues when I ride alone.

Yesterday I was riding with 2 guys- one car buzzed us closely. They were cussing, I was wishing I was alone.

Then another guy who seems to be a magnet for flak joined us.
Within 5 minutes I dropped my bottle, then one of the other guys knocked off his own glasses when a bee got underneath them.


I mostly ride alone now. It's way less stressful.

[FlashUNC]

No. At Berkeley High. I was turning left onto Milvia. A car was stopped at the stop sign. The cyclist blew right through.

I don't take Milvia on my rides home, usually, because of all the crazies. I take Grant to Russell. No traffic, no hipsters.

If memory serves, Kittredge has a stop, but Bancroft and Durant don't. And the Kittredge sign isn't all that well marked if you're southbound, I know northbound it ain't all that visible. Could easily lead to some confusion for those who even ride the road regularly. I know I've blown the Kittredge sign a couple times coming back from a ride pretty fried.

Skip the bike boulevards, let the cyclists joust it out. But I support the Idaho stop for stop signs for cyclists, so what do I know.

[Elefantino]

so what do I know.
Yeah, you hate Sagan, too. :D

[SeanScott]

I have an aggressive friend that blows every stop sign, sometimes making a car slam on their brakes. I stop and everyone looks at me like I am the A-hole because the other cyclist is long gone.
I have talked to him about it but he says it is just how he rides.
It really is a stupid thing to do and makes drivers hate all cyclists.

[soulspinner]

I have an aggressive friend that blows every stop sign, sometimes making a car slam on their brakes. I stop and everyone looks at me like I am the A-hole because the other cyclist is long gone.
I have talked to him about it but he says it is just how he rides.
It really is a stupid thing to do and makes drivers hate all cyclists.

Got a friend just like yours. A horrific accident and a spine an inch shorter didnt change a thing. I keep waiting for that call from his wife..

[oldpotatoe]

I agree completely. The scufflaws make us all look like jerks. Yes, the potential for affecting others by inattention or conscious ignorance of street signs is a great point. Thank for posting your thoughts.

Agree, really bad around the republic, bad a particular intersections..4 way stop, I'm on my bike..I stop, then go, expecting the guy and girl on bikes, on the right to stop..they don't, I almost hit the guy..say something 'intelligent'(not, like dumb-ass, stop at stop signs)..he grips..so it goes. I'm pretty militant when on a bike, to 'mention' to some they ought to stop at stop signs and stop lights..get the same reaction tho, 'FU'..:rolleyes:

[oldpotatoe]

I have an aggressive friend that blows every stop sign, sometimes making a car slam on their brakes. I stop and everyone looks at me like I am the A-hole because the other cyclist is long gone.
I have talked to him about it but he says it is just how he rides.
It really is a stupid thing to do and makes drivers hate all cyclists.

Got a guy who I used to ride with like that..life's too short, I ride alone. Let somebody else call his wife.

As for the "Idaho' rules..fine and dandy when they become law, locally and be interesting when car drivers start doing the same thing..'but I saw a guy on a bike run the light officer'..:mad:

[William]

Its universal. I was complaining of this on the forum years ago about riders I would see daily in Portland running lights and stop signs, going the wrong way down one-way streets, bombing down sidewalks etc... It used to bug the carp out of me because it just adds fuel to the fire when motorists/public complain about how cyclists are dangerous on the road. I don't see it as much now being in a more rural area and mostly riding alone but I would bet money that if I went back into PDX or any other good sized city I would see it immediately.







William

[weisan]

I have said this many times. What we do off the bike transfers over to what we do on the bike. If we are self centered, feel entitled, hate establishments, don't like following rules, anti-social, super competitive, must always win, egoistic, i-ride-a-bike-so-i-must-be-superior, holier than thou attitude, anger management issues, mad at the world, etc. All of these will manifest in different ways when we are riding on a bike by ourselves or with others.

At worst, you will get yourself killed. But most of the time, it doesn't get that bad, all it does is inject negativity into the overall experience for everybody, both cyclists and other road users.

[beeatnik]

doesnt bother me. nor do i believe every individual on a bike is a representative of a class. in a few big cities jaywalking is common but even the most reckless is not a proxy for all pedestrians. first rule of driving, don't hit anyone.

[Bentley]

I may be an "offender". Typically I ride alone and I always approach intersections with "caution", I slow down and I am ready to stop. That said if the intersection is clear I "blow thru"

I have had situations at a 4 way, where I have been at the intersection first, rolling very slowly and continued thru. In a few cases I gotten the "International sign of peace and harmony". I would argue if it's on a busy throughfare you should always stop, just for self preservation, but also it reflects respect for everyone. But if you are on a very lightly travelled road, you slow down and are ready to stop, and you make eye contact with any/all drivers and they give you an ok, then I see little harm done.

I read from your post that its riders on busy roads, filled with folks that have a general disdain for cyclist as the "audience", I agree but I do think there are a wide array of circumstances and have found that hard rules generally do not work in all circumstances.

Best

Ray

[Dead Man]

Sometimes it's safer to blow through.


The B's rules of the road on a bike, in order of priority:
1. Be safe
2. Be courteous

**** the motorvehicle code - I'm not in a 4500lbs steel cage with crumple zones, seat belts, and air bags. Not riding my 15lbs bicycle like I am a car.

[tuscanyswe]

doesnt bother me. nor do i believe every individual on a bike is a representative of a class. in a few big cities jaywalking is common but even the most reckless is not a proxy for all pedestrians. first rule of driving, don't hit anyone.

Agreed. Its not like i hate drivers just because a few are complete jerks.
I dont feel responsible for other riders or like im representing other riders when i ride. Probably would stop if i did ;)

[GregL]

Like most things in life, you can't effect change on a macro level. You have to work on your little corner of the world. As a cyclist, I try to be a good citizen, follow the motor vehicle code, and be friendly and polite to fellow road users. When leading a group ride, I follow (nearly) all traffic rules. If a particular group of cyclists are scofflaws, I don't participate in their rides. I'd be a liar to say I don't use the "Idaho stop" when I'm in the middle of nowhere on a rural road, with no vehicles in sight. By and large, the response and respect I get in return from motorists is pretty darn good.

Last week, I was approaching a "Y" intersection on a lunchtime ride. All three rural roads meeting at this intersection have stop signs. As I approached the intersection, a pickup pulling a boat trailer approached from my left, signaling a turn to his right. I signaled my left turn as I came to a stop. As I started pedaling and proceeded through the intersection, the pickup and I passed each other. The driver shouted out his window "Nice signal, thank you!" I shouted back "Same to you, thanks!" I rode the rest of the way back to work with a big smile on my face.

Greg

[saab2000]

I think more drivers are more tolerant than we give them credit for. But they don't like a few things (I include myself in the "They" part as I am also a driver).

Drivers don't like being startled or surprised. Cyclists blasting through stop signs are idiots and this may surprise a driver who was looking at other cars.

And I think they're especially upset about riders who feel laws don't apply to them. Cyclists aren't a special category of road user who are above our outside the law.

I've had incidents with idiot drivers to be sure, but I've also found that most are courteous as long as I'm respectful of them as well. This includes following traffic norms and laws and stopping at stop signs and lights when they're red.

[GregL]

I've had incidents with idiot drivers to be sure, but I've also found that most are courteous as long as I'm respectful of them as well. This includes following traffic norms and laws and stopping at stop signs and lights when they're red.
This. Perfect summary. I've found that when I follow the law and drivers are clearly aware of my intent (e.g., taking the lane when appropriate, signaling all turns, etc...), the number of unhappy motorist interactions drops to nearly zero. Smiles, waves, and "thank yous" are also powerful ways to encourage friendly road encounters.

Greg

[fuzzalow]

All of this behaviour, from bicyclists to motorists to pedestrians, is reflective and a manifestation of the underlying attitude in force and in effect for each group. And that attitude is entitlement and competition. Entitlement in the sense that actions are taken somehow expecting deference from other players in the traffic scene; competition in the sense that crowding into common space makes confrontation inevitable which makes for reactions of unthinking that intensify rather than defuse a given situation.

I do not ride with a sense of entitlement and competition. I ride a bike and drive a car with a sense of cooperation and coexistence.

I did not talk about methods and techniques, such as an Idaho Stop, which is one of many techniques and decisions I may use. All that is meaningless because technique does not drive behaviour and the decision process. Attitude, beliefs, goals and objectives drive the decision process and reveal themselves as behaviour. It is the thoughts that make us who and what we are. To do anything less is to make us common with mere beasts.

All this militant behaviour, especially from "so called" (Ugh, I cringe at even the mere hint of Trumpian vernacular) experienced cyclists is all bad for bicycle culture in the bigger picture. None of these persons have the foggiest notion of how to advance a cause or the qualities to set an agenda or the maturity and thoughtfulness to lead.

[SeanScott]

I will have to agree that the flip sided of this is I do see many motorists almost being too kind to a fault.
I have many standoffs where the car has the right-away and I am in a track stand waving them on but they won't go.
I believe that awareness has gotten better.

[redir]

I mostly slow down to a 'California Roll' through stop signs just like my brethren in cars do. So if drivers complain about that then they can shove it because they all do it too ;)

I mostly obey the rules of the road and stop at intersections with stop signs but lets face it... It's stupid. Okay... I admit I will blow through a stop sign that has 100% visibility and there is literally NO traffic.

Yes it's stupid to vacuously blow a sign when there is traffic but it's also stupid to require a self powered vehicle that rides on the edge of the road to come to complete stops when there is no one around. In fact it's worse for traffic. A bicycle at a complete stop has to then get going again and that is typically pretty slow, cars can jump right up to speed and maximize the flow of traffic.

Some states are now recognizing this fact and modifying the laws.

Stop lights are an entirely different story.

[Jeff N.]

I agree, redir. Also, in addition, I find that if I EXPECT bikers to blow signs/lights or, if I'm riding, I EXPECT cars to turn in front of me and cut me off, I stand a much higher chance of avoiding trouble.

[saab2000]

I mostly slow down to a 'California Roll' through stop signs just like my brethren in cars do. So if drivers complain about that then they can shove it because they all do it too ;)



The rolling stop is a situational thing. My normal route includes a 4-way stop that always has cars. I wait my turn and everyone is happy. There are other stop signs that are in place largely to prevent people from going 60 MPH through a semi-residential neighborhood. This one gets a slow down and a courtesy back pedal, then I'm going if there's nobody waiting.

[earlfoss]

Just get on Zwift full time, work from home, and you will have nothing further to worry about.

[beeatnik]

All of this behaviour, from bicyclists to motorists to pedestrians, is reflective and a manifestation of the underlying attitude in force and in effect for each group. And that attitude is entitlement and competition. Entitlement in the sense that actions are taken somehow expecting deference from other players in the traffic scene; competition in the sense that crowding into common space makes confrontation inevitable which makes for reactions of unthinking that intensify rather than defuse a given situation.

I do not ride with a sense of entitlement and competition. I ride a bike and drive a car with a sense of cooperation and coexistence.

I did not talk about methods and techniques, such as an Idaho Stop, which is one of many techniques and decisions I may use. All that is meaningless because technique does not drive behaviour and the decision process. Attitude, beliefs, goals and objectives drive the decision process and reveal themselves as behaviour. It is the thoughts that make us who and what we are. To do anything less is to make us common with mere beasts.



This may be the first instance of the correct use of the word entitlement on the Pacelines.

Great post.

I would add self-preservation in the Ayn Rand objectivist sense to cooperation and coexistence.

[kevinvc]

I find it annoying that when a cyclist does something stupid, people are so quick to conflate it to everyone on a bike, "that's why I hate bikes, they ride like they own the road". I've never heard anyone do the same when a motor vehicle does something similar, even though the potential risk to others is so much higher.

There are a lot of jerk riders and bad drivers out there and it ticks me off to see some of the things they do. But I think it's ridiculous to say that cyclists need to "police our own". Again, when is the last time you heard someone talking about seeing a car run a stop sign and have someone say that other car drivers have a responsibility to speak out to scofflaws because they are giving all drivers a bad reputation.

I'm sure most of us think we use a reasonable, common-sense approach to following the laws. I know I'll do a slow roll through a stop sign if there's no one else present, but will come to a complete stop with a foot down if there's a car behind me. I consider this reasonable, but some would point out I'm still occasionally breaking the law and others consider me overly cautious.

I can only control my own actions. I feel no responsibility for poor choices taken by others. I hope everyone exercises caution and consideration for other while traveling, regardless of mode.

[denapista]

I will have to agree that the flip sided of this is I do see many motorists almost being too kind to a fault.
I have many standoffs where the car has the right-away and I am in a track stand waving them on but they won't go.
I believe that awareness has gotten better.

THIS!

If I'm riding through a residential area, I'll just slowly go through non critical stop signs, after checking to see if it's clear. Huge intersections though (Residential) where it's easier than avoiding a 4 way standoff, I'll just ride through and wave thanks to the motorists. I hate the standoff when I'm clipped in my Speedplay Zeros....

Running Red lights is a pure no-no in my book though. I see fixie kids (I used to ride Track bikes before fixie term/explosion), and I can't fathom how kids just run blatant red lights on huge intersections like a race or something.

[Tony]

I will have to agree that the flip sided of this is I do see many motorists almost being too kind to a fault.
I have many standoffs where the car has the right-away and I am in a track stand waving them on but they won't go.
I believe that awareness has gotten better.

I'm tired of doing that dance. In my area I pretty much ride like redir.

[shovelhd]

I have many standoffs where the car has the right-away and I am in a track stand waving them on but they won't go.


The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

[casparwhittey]

Sometimes it's safer to blow through.


The B's rules of the road on a bike, in order of priority:
1. Be safe
2. Be courteous

**** the motorvehicle code - I'm not in a 4500lbs steel cage with crumple zones, seat belts, and air bags. Not riding my 15lbs bicycle like I am a car.

Exactly my thinking as well. I aim to be curteous to the traffic and others around me (applies to whatever vehicle I'm using on the road). While I will stop and give right of way if traffic is present, (and expect groups I ride with to do the same) I also think it's fine to slow up and roll a stop (after checking you're clear) without coming to a complete stop. It depends on circumstances, location (city/rural), time of day, etc - and mostly just being attentive to what's going on around you.

[SeanScott]

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

So the complete stop, saying go ahead, and waving them to go isn't good enough?

It really is a nice gesture by motorists, it just adds more confusion to the game.

[casparwhittey]

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

That's a good point.. equivalent in my mind to the driver that's waiting for you to pass before turning onto your road, but who keeps inching forward instead of keeping their foot on the brake. From the cyclists perspective, you can't be certain whether they see you and are actually going to stay stopped or whether they're about to go for it.

I can see how the annoyance I feel towards those folks is probably similar to the annoyance a driver might feel towards the track standing cyclist at the stop sign.

[shovelhd]

So the complete stop, saying go ahead, and waving them to go isn't good enough?

It really is a nice gesture by motorists, it just adds more confusion to the game.

No.

[fuzzalow]

Not to pile on but each situation is different and how one responds is a reflection of their judgement.

For example: I never advise decision making influenced by visual cues. meaning eye contact or waves or gestures from what a rider thinks a driver is trying to communicate to him. But there are exceptions that can be made after a rider has scanned and assessed the traffic situation and this situation may be one of them.

If a driver is showing courtesy and it is just the two of you and the driver is waving you through, then accept the courtesy. This situation usually comes up on a quiet road where it is conducive and safe to communicate this way. When this happens to me, because this happens when the driver is making a left turn, as I go past the driver window I wave and say "Thank You" as I go past - Kill 'em with kindness I say. :) Because I want to acknowledge their consideration and courtesy, I want them to come away from our encounter as feeling normal and non-confrontational. And I want to give them a reason to continue this safe and coexistence behaviour going into the future with other bicyclists.

I have many standoffs where the car has the right-away and I am in a track stand waving them on but they won't go.
I believe that awareness has gotten better.

Don't screw up a situation initiated by a driver courtesy by a standoff in insisting on greater courtesy between you two - he didn't let you through the way you wanted to be signalled to be let through so you had a pissing match over that? How smart is that? Just go through and don't make it into a big deal. In the bigger picture you want to make these interactions commonplace and normal.

Yeah awareness may be getting better. Be aware and sensitive to the lowering of the temperature when bicyclists interact with drivers because that is a good thing. Rome wasn't built in a day.

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

True. The best way to survive out there is to see things not just from your own vantage but from theirs too because it will alert you to behaviour on their part that will change a rider's threat profile for any given situation. Right or wrong on a driver's part, to ignore any driver's potential actions is to imperil one's self. To loosely paraphrase Henry Ford - you wanna be where they ain't.

Be careful out there.

[Tony]

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

Good point. However, this is not limited to both feet on the pedals. Some drivers just want you to go first, token, gesture...? AND then there are those who are waiting for the opportunity to make sure you obey "like the rest of us" even going the extra mile to do so.

[pdmtong]

The average driver has no idea what a trackstand is. They see both feet on the pedals and they think you're still riding your bike. If you want to be taken seriously that you are stopped, unclip and put a foot down. You can't blame the driver in that situation.

agreed and to take it further, the avg driver has no idea what the challenges and motivations of a cyclist are.

my daughter has ridden lots of asphalt miles with me on her road bike before getting her license. when she got her license, all the things I told her about riding defensively suddenly made a lot more sense. she knows how to drive around cyclists since she is one. but, to the point above, we riders have to assume drivers have zero clue about cycling, and worse. most find us annoying.

so, as Fuzz says, keep killing them with kindness and dont ride with a sense of entitlement.

[GregL]

Another challenge I see daily with well-intentioned motorists are traffic signals with in-ground sensors. If I happen to be first in line at a traffic signal (typically a left turn traffic light), it regularly happens that well meaning drivers will keep their vehicles 15-30 feet back from my bike. Since a bike and rider won't typically trip the sensor, I often have to wave the drivers to come closer. When the signal arrow turns green, I always wave, give them a thumbs up gesture, and say "Thanks!" if their window is open. Ongoing driver education, one ride at a time...

Greg

[spoonrobot]

"Driver courtesy" is often extremely dangerous. I've had motorists repeatedly try to wave me into traffic at a 2 way stop, same with turning lanes and merging lanes.

Driver's don't know what it's like to ride a bike in traffic and will kill you with their "courtesy."

As far as cyclists running stop signs, the vast majority around here aren't cyclists but just people on bikes, ain't no way they're changing their behavior.

[Seramount]

had a commuter cyclist blow a 4-way stop in front of me this morning as I was standing on the pedals and getting ready to make a right turn into his lane...

rode up next to him at the next light...no helmet, hi-vis yellow jersey, which seems like a case of reversed priorities if you're not slowing or stopping at controlled intersections.

he offered a 'good morning'...but really wasn't in the mood to exchange pleasantries with or lecture someone being clueless and reckless.

just gave him a stare and said nothing. so, I'm prolly the arrogant prick in his mind...whatevers.

[GregL]

As far as cyclists running stop signs, the vast majority around here aren't cyclists but just people on bikes, ain't no way they're changing their behavior.
That's the way my wife and I have come to think. A cyclist is a responsible bicycle rider, road or off-road. The folks who ride like idiots are just GIBs - guys/girls on bikes. Or future Darwin Award winners...

[William]

That's the way my wife and I have come to think. A cyclist is a responsible bicycle rider, road or off-road. The folks who ride like idiots are just GIBs - guys/girls on bikes. Or future Darwin Award winners...

There is truth to that, but I don't think most motorists make that distinction.




William

[pdmtong]

On the other hand I've also been scolded by an older group when I jumped through a light after all traffic had cleared and the signal light was still holding for left turns.

[HenryA]

A suggestion:

When at stop signs and traffic lights, act so that no other vehicle nearby need adjust from the normal driving behavior because of your action/inaction. If you do that its unlikely anyone will be bothered or endangered, including you.
So, generally if there is other traffic that could possibly be affected by your presence or action, then make a foot-down stop. The reasonable expectation is that everyone will stop at the stop sign. If you have a perfectly clear view and there's not a car in sight, you might roll it and get away with it. And no one saw it, so it didn't happen. ;)

[pbarry]

You got it there, Henry. Well said. Predictability is the key
to getting along in traffic.

A suggestion:

When at stop signs and traffic lights, act so that no other vehicle nearby need adjust from the normal driving behavior because of your action/inaction. If you do that its unlikely anyone will be bothered or endangered, including you.
So, generally if there is other traffic that could possibly be affected by your presence or action, then make a foot-down stop. The reasonable expectation is that everyone will stop at the stop sign. If you have a perfectly clear view and there's not a car in sight, you might roll it and get away with it. And no one saw it, so it didn't happen. ;)

[johnmdesigner]

I like to stop at stop signs and traffic lights. I've met some nice people that way.
Last year I met a little girl and her parents in the crosswalk all dressed up for her first communion. All I had was a $20 so I gave it to her and wished her a happy life.
Today a man on a motorcycle honked his horn when he passed me. When I got to the top of the hill he was there and asked me if the horn bothered me. I explained that he didn't have to do it for an individual rider. We had a nice conversation and he initiated it which impressed me. He told me his frustrations and I told him mine. I think we both left with an appreciation of others on the road.
I'm not interested in riding fast in urban areas anymore so I am happy to stop and talk or just say "good morning" to a stranger in the crosswalk. They don't expect it and I think it's appreciated.

[earlfoss]

Andy Rooney should of done a segment about this

[johnmdesigner]

Andy Rooney should of done a segment about this

Chapeau sir!

[godfrey1112000]

I mostly ride alone now. It's way less stressful.

Yes, you are always:
Group leader
Pulling
Decide when to take a break
Always finish first
Never get dropped

[godfrey1112000]

Andy Rooney should of done a segment about this

Doing his report⚰️

[pbarry]

Those interactions, like the one you had, are what I miss most about living there. Life can be stressful and even bleak, and then there's a moment like you had. Big props for being in the present.


I like to stop at stop signs and traffic lights. I've met some nice people that way.
Last year I met a little girl and her parents in the crosswalk all dressed up for her first communion. All I had was a $20 so I gave it to her and wished her a happy life.
Today a man on a motorcycle honked his horn when he passed me. When I got to the top of the hill he was there and asked me if the horn bothered me. I explained that he didn't have to do it for an individual rider. We had a nice conversation and he initiated it which impressed me. He told me his frustrations and I told him mine. I think we both left with an appreciation of others on the road.
I'm not interested in riding fast in urban areas anymore so I am happy to stop and talk or just say "good morning" to a stranger in the crosswalk. They don't expect it and I think it's appreciated.

[beeatnik]

Yes, you are always:
Group leader
Pulling
Decide when to take a break
Always finish first
Never get dropped

and increasing your odds of getting hit by a car
and lowering your odds of completing 100 miles in under 4 hours and being home by noon (unless you're a tri dork on a goofy bika)

long live group rides.

[Dead Man]

and increasing your odds of getting hit by a car
and lowering your odds of completing 100 miles in under 4 hours and being home by noon (unless you're a tri dork on a goofy bika)

long live group rides.

i like your roadie style

[Black Dog]

If a driver is showing courtesy and it is just the two of you and the driver is waving you through, then accept the courtesy. This situation usually comes up on a quiet road where it is conducive and safe to communicate this way. When this happens to me, because this happens when the driver is making a left turn, as I go past the driver window I wave and say "Thank You" as I go past - Kill 'em with kindness I say. :) Because I want to acknowledge their consideration and courtesy, I want them to come away from our encounter as feeling normal and non-confrontational. And I want to give them a reason to continue this safe and coexistence behaviour going into the future with other bicyclists.

This is such nice and sage advice. Are you sure that you are not a fellow Canadian? You are really polite eh. :D

[oldpotatoe]

Exactly my thinking as well. I aim to be courteous to the traffic and others around me (applies to whatever vehicle I'm using on the road). While I will stop and give right of way if traffic is present, (and expect groups I ride with to do the same) I also think it's fine to slow up and roll a stop (after checking you're clear) without coming to a complete stop. It depends on circumstances, location (city/rural), time of day, etc - and mostly just being attentive to what's going on around you.

Me too but way to many don't even slow down at that there stop sign..see that everyday I ride..yesterday in Hygiene, as an example for those who ride around the republic.

[fuzzalow]

This is such nice and sage advice. Are you sure that you are not a fellow Canadian? You are really polite eh. :D


On a human level I know that courtesy should be reciprocated in kind.
On a political level I know that someone, especially a motor vehicle operator, that shows awareness and courtesy towards a bicyclist should be treated as a comrade and kindred spirit because of how he acts towards bicyclists rather than treated as an adversary simply because he is in a car. That would be a foolish rush to judgement that hurts the cause of bicycling in the mainstream by possibly turning-off someone who looks favorably on bicycling & bicyclists but was stupidly treated rudely by a roadie.
On a traffic safety level I would prefer the driver strictly adhere to the rules of the road and NOT wave a bicyclist through an intersection because it injects variability into a defined traffic sequence & series of events. But provided it is safe to suspend normal traffic rules for this particular occurrence, I will accept the situation as offered for reasons of positive human interaction and a positive gain in bicycling political capital as described in the two points above

Yes I am polite unless someone gives me a reason not to be. But I am also always aware of a bigger picture and will be calculating towards furthering that end when and where neccesary.