OT: plumbing woes

[Tickdoc]

Listing to a nice hiss coming from the pipes under my kitchen sink......third pinhole leak in a year.

This one requires them to remove a section of rock wall outside the house to access.

Copper tubing....house is about 12 yrs old.

Plumber shows up and once recognizing me immediately says " I think you should sell this house".

Wife immediately goes to Zillow.

Slightly aggitated. Any other plumbing horror stories out there?

[msl819]

Bummer... have the plumbers offered any ideas as to the cause? Is there anything you are doing or can do to stop them going forward? I have had my fair share of plumbing issues, the worst being a collapsed pipe under the house. Thankfully they were able to send a new line out the side of the house and did not have to bust up the foundation as they first thought.

[Tickdoc]

Bummer... have the plumbers offered any ideas as to the cause? Is there anything you are doing or can do to stop them going forward? I have had my fair share of plumbing issues, the worst being a collapsed pipe under the house. Thankfully they were able to send a new line out the side of the house and did not have to bust up the foundation as they first thought.

Recirculating hot water pump is a likely contributor ( combined w *****ty build quality)

[makoti]

Slightly aggitated. Any other plumbing horror stories out there?

Only from when I changed out a garbage disposal & didn't hook up the dishwasher to run through it again. Oops.

[stephenmarklay]

Recirculating hot water pump is a likely contributor ( combined w *****ty build quality)

Was it a bad plumber (poor sweated joints) originally?

[Peter B]

Sorry to hear about your woes. I found this in a quick search. A bit dated, but may be usefiul as a basis for further research.

http://naca-nokomis.com/copper.faqs.6.05_files/PinHoleFAQ.pdf

Good luck!

[Tickdoc]

Was it a bad plumber (poor sweated joints) originally?

More than likely. I think our house was built for looks and profit, not for longevity.

[msl819]

More than likely. I think our house was built for looks and profit, not for longevity.

Unfortunately that is all too common.

[adub]

Houses are a depreciating asset. Taxes, upkeep, etc.. It's the land that appreciates.

[Louis]

Houses are a depreciating asset. Taxes, upkeep, etc.. It's the land that appreciates.

Anyone want to come over to my place this weekend and do some gardening?

If I wait much longer it's going to be like a scene from "The Day of the Triffids"

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BY2U3NDcxM2UtYTE2Ny00OWEzLTgyZmUtZTliOTVhMDM5N2 U0XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyNjE5MjUyOTM@._V1_SY1000_CR0,0,65 9,1000_AL_.jpg

[Louis]

But without the blonde:

https://68.media.tumblr.com/651c8037f99811c2910edf7f7bf2e446/tumblr_ol3qhjYp5a1s9bqq4o1_500.jpg

[pdmtong]

the wrong schedule copper when used for hot water can result in a pin hole leak

[Louis]

Short of selling the house, which seems like over-kill, I wonder how much it would cost to re-plumb a whole house? Probably cost-prohibitive, but if you really like a place, that might be the simplest way to solve the problems once and for all. (hopefully)

[dgauthier]

Short of selling the house, which seems like over-kill, I wonder how much it would cost to re-plumb a whole house? Probably cost-prohibitive, but if you really like a place, that might be the simplest way to solve the problems once and for all. (hopefully)

It depends on the house, and the plumber.

When we bought our house in 1994 the sellers disclosed "the house needs to be re-piped," and said their plumber had quoted $5000 to do the job. We sat on it for seven years until *our* plumber said it was time to re-pipe. He replaced everything but the shower risers for about $1600. He did a great job, and it's been fine ever since.

The moral of the story is it's easy to get screwed. But, if you have a plumber you love and know he charges a fair rate, ask his opinion about why you seem to have so many leaks and what he could do to fix the problem.

(Sort of the opposite of a horror story. And yes, we love our plumber and wouldn't use anybody else.)

[paredown]

Was/is the copper running through concrete/or left in place while concrete was poured? (trying to make sense of 'rock wall' comment.)

Best practice is to sleeve the concrete, since you can get corrosion from concrete plus a little moisture.

If not, I'm leaning towards someone using the wrong schedule pipe and/or acidic water. A lot of builders will use type M (the lighter stuff) anywhere they can; the old timers used to use Type L anywhere it would be hard to repair.

It might be worth it to get your water tested, and install a softener if you don't already have one.

Twelve years sounds way to short a time to be having water pipe problems unless it was first generation PEX.

[Ralph]

After 3-4 expensive leaks.....probably time to re pipe. After I did that....20 years now....no leaks.

[Tickdoc]

Short of selling the house, which seems like over-kill, I wonder how much it would cost to re-plumb a whole house? Probably cost-prohibitive, but if you really like a place, that might be the simplest way to solve the problems once and for all. (hopefully)

$10-12k

[stephenmarklay]

Man what a bummer. Sorry to hear about this grief.

[Plum Hill]

Recirculating hot water pump is a likely contributor ( combined w *****ty build quality)

Why would you think a recirculating pump contributed to the problem?

As an outside possibility...is your water pipe bonded to the electrical ground?

[sjbraun]

We went through a re-piping project a few years ago. Our house was built in 1946 with galvanized steel pipes. One night while getting ready for bed my wife asked me why she heard water running. "Oh," I say, "you mean this water running down the wall?"

Our house has a flat roof with no crawl space, common in older homes in Tucson. Our plumbers had to poke holes in the ceiling and walls to run the new pipes. And just to make things more fun our water service entered at one end of the house and continued to the furthest corner of our home. And because of how our piping ran, we got to gut and remodel one of our bathrooms, too.

It was a good six weeks of household disruption, but most of that was the bathroom work. The re-piping only took a few days.

Our plumbers said they do a lot of business re-piping newer "luxury" homes piped with copper. Apparently, copper pipes aren't of the same quality as in the past. Pin hole leaks are not uncommon.

[batman1425]

We had pipes located in interior walls - roughly 15-20 feet away from the nearest exterior face - freeze 4 times over the course of 2 years. Long story short, the garbage construction of our town house, a similar put 'em up fast and cheap home, had no vapor barrier installed when the finished the exterior which was a code violation (among several other I discovered during our ownership) based on the homes age. They framed, put up plywood, then crappy vinyl siding straight over it. No insulation, no tyvek, just ply and siding. House was in Pennsylvania, winters are normal there. When I opened up the ceiling after the 3rd freeze and looked toward the exterior, you could see a 1/4-3/8" gap between the sill of the 1st floor and the rafters for the second - all the way across the front of the house. Could see daylight coming in. FML.

Me and a local contractor guy pulled apart the walls in 3 rooms of the house to block off the spaces around the pipes and install pipe insulation, floor to ceiling. We got crazy lucky that in all 4 freezes, didn't have a break, one of the plusses of PEX plumbing. Didn't fix the $20's we were throwing at HVAC costs from the air leaks but that would have been like trying plug holes in a screen door.

[shovelhd]

I've been told that some of the overseas copper pipe used today isn't up to USA spec, and that can cause pinhole leaks.

My horror story. I bought my first house two years out of college. It was up for foreclosure but I bought it right before it went to auction. This was December in the Northeast. The previous owner was a wanted felon and let the oil tank run dry. The house was a ranch with a full basement, with all piping under the floor and in the walls. With no heat, the pipes froze and burst all over the place. I learned to sweat copper pipe real fast. I'd turn the water on, watch for leaks, fix, and repeat. It took me about a week to find everything.

[Tickdoc]

Why would you think a recirculating pump contributed to the problem?

As an outside possibility...is your water pipe bonded to the electrical ground?

From what I was told, the constant flow of water recirculating causes eddies and flow pressure points to the insides of the pipe that can wear through thinner portions of the pipe. All of the leaks have been on angles and joint areas and apparently the hurried new construction plumbers will not ream out the pipes well leading to build up areas within.

It was suggested we put the pump on a timer so you can have instant hot water only at the times you need it. I just turned it off for now until this issue is resolved.

[Tickdoc]

I've been told that some of the overseas copper pipe used today isn't up to USA spec, and that can cause pinhole leaks.

My horror story. I bought my first house two years out of college. It was up for foreclosure but I bought it right before it went to auction. This was December in the Northeast. The previous owner was a wanted felon and let the oil tank run dry. The house was a ranch with a full basement, with all piping under the floor and in the walls. With no heat, the pipes froze and burst all over the place. I learned to sweat copper pipe real fast. I'd turn the water on, watch for leaks, fix, and repeat. It took me about a week to find everything.

I have sweat pipe before but it has been years and I am tempted to tackle his one myself. I bet I could shimmy my ass in there and do the work without removing the wall.

[Tickdoc]

After 3-4 expensive leaks.....probably time to re pipe. After I did that....20 years now....no leaks.

I just can't fathom the prospect of that. All those pipes in all those hard to reach places. Won't a ton of drywall and painting repairs result after that is done?

[dgauthier]

I just can't fathom the prospect of that. All those pipes in all those hard to reach places. Won't a ton of drywall and painting repairs result after that is done?

How is your home laid out? Our home is a one story ranch with a crawl space. 95% the plumbing is easlily accessible in the crawl space. Connections to faucets can be maneuvered up from below, and drywall that needs to be removed under the sinks (if any) can be easily replaced. Connections to shower heads are usually not a source of problems and can be left in place, as we did.

[rePhil]

Surprisingly in many cases it's not too bad (at least in our case here in FL) They went through our attic (crawl space). A few walls had to be opened but it wasn't too bad. It's a common enough problem around here that most plumbing companies advertise repipe's on their vehicles and advertising.
The other option is the epoxy coating.

I just can't fathom the prospect of that. All those pipes in all those hard to reach places. Won't a ton of drywall and painting repairs result after that is done?

[Tickdoc]

How is your home laid out? Our home is a one story ranch with a crawl space. 95% the plumbing is easlily accessible in the crawl space. Connections to faucets can be maneuvered up from below, and drywall that needs to be removed under the sinks (if any) can be easily replaced. Connections to shower heads are usually not a source of problems and can be left in place, as we did.

Cement slab( no crawlspace) 2 story.

[shovelhd]

Was/is the copper running through concrete/or left in place while concrete was poured? (trying to make sense of 'rock wall' comment.)

Best practice is to sleeve the concrete, since you can get corrosion from concrete plus a little moisture.


I'd echo this question. Is there any copper in the concrete?

[Tickdoc]

I'd echo this question. Is there any copper in the concrete?

I can't answer that :-(

[Tandem Rider]

Do you have a water softener? Soft water is very aggressive, I have seen it eat through pipes before. Second on the poor quality imported piping, I refuse to use it anymore.

[rwsaunders]

From what I was told, the constant flow of water recirculating causes eddies and flow pressure points to the insides of the pipe that can wear through thinner portions of the pipe. All of the leaks have been on angles and joint areas and apparently the hurried new construction plumbers will not ream out the pipes well leading to build up areas within.

It was suggested we put the pump on a timer so you can have instant hot water only at the times you need it. I just turned it off for now until this issue is resolved.

We built our home 20 years ago and we installed a 1/8 hp recirculating pump with a timer for the domestic hot water side of the system. It runs from about 6am to 11pm daily. Absolutely no issues (knock on wood) and I've never heard of a recirculating system causing piping to prematurely leak. Most commercial buildings have such a system for the domestic hot water and to a larger scale, for a hot water system when there is a boiler involved.

It sounds like just for peace of mind that you might need to re-plumb the house, but that's easier said than done. If you like the location and the house in general, $10-12K is cheap, right? Will your homeowner's policy address the issue to some degree?

[Tickdoc]

We built our home 20 years ago and we installed a 1/8 hp recirculating pump with a timer for the domestic hot water side of the system. It runs from about 6am to 11pm daily. Absolutely no issues (knock on wood) and I've never heard of a recirculating system causing piping to prematurely leak. Most commercial buildings have such a system for the domestic hot water and to a larger scale, for a hot water system when there is a boiler involved.

It sounds like just for peace of mind that you might need to re-plumb the house, but that's easier said than done. If you like the location and the house in general, $10-12K is cheap, right? Will your homeowner's policy address the issue to some degree?

Homeowners a no go unless they all start leaking and cause catastrophic failure. They say it is a builder issue.

I love the house...perfect location, perfect size, we put in a pool and hot tub a few years ago that we absolutely love. I'm exactly between my two work locations and I can ride my bike to the country from home with no traffic, and I can ride to my group ride starts in less than 15 minutes.

Wife hates the house so I guess well move.:)

We want to downsize just a little and really would like to have the peace and quiet of no neighbors. A move to the family land would double our commutes, though. Not entirely sure my wife would enjoy the seclusion as much as me. One plot is 120 acres of pure country, another is 75 acres in town-ish, so two good options to build on. I would have to buy a portion to build on from the family trust, but that could be done easy with no interest.

I think we may fast track that and try to do something in the next 1-2 yrs. I just hate the thought of moving.

[Tickdoc]

Do you have a water softener? Soft water is very aggressive, I have seen it eat through pipes before. Second on the poor quality imported piping, I refuse to use it anymore.

No water softener...water not that hard here.

[Louis]

I just hate the thought of moving.

If you have somewhere to put it (it sounds like you do) rent one of these long-term and slowly fill it over time. When it's full put it in storage and get another one.

Keep track of what's going in what box, and before you know it, all you'll have left in the house is your mattress, your toothbrush, and some milk in the fridge. If you decide you don't need any of the stuff that's in storage just stop paying the rent, and the Pod People will even take care of getting rid of your junk for you...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-6ZWjD91TtMY/Up5f4t3wnxI/AAAAAAAADOY/_vRkcRxX1X0/s1600/PODS_21508-22.jpg

[Peter B]

No water softener...water not that hard here.

Hey Tickdoc--

Based on a few quick searches you are not alone. Numerous municipalities have conducted fairly extensive studies into pinhole leaks due to constituent experiences/complaints. Might be worth following a few of these links for options and to see if you are part of a larger affected local/regional group. Isolated repairs to installed piping, epoxy injection to line existing piping internally, full copper replacement, switching to PEX look to be individual homeowner options.

https://www.wsscwater.com/files/live/sites/wssc/files/PDFs/Study%20of%20Pinhole%20leaks%20Report_1503042.pdf

http://naca-nokomis.com/copper.faqs.6.05_files/PinHoleFAQ.pdf

http://www.plainviewwater.org/Approved%20Copper%20Pinhole%20PR%20Response.pdf

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20141114/entlife/141119476/

http://www.ocregister.com/2012/02/21/homebuilders-sue-water-districts-over-copper-pipe-leaks/

http://www.repairmyleak.com/about/failure-copper.htm

[rwsaunders]

I looked up the statute of limitations in Oklahoma for construction defects and it's ten years. Oh well...replacing the copper with PEX seems like the route to go. If some of your supply lines come from the beneath the slab, then a reroute will be required.

You might also want to find out the name of the plumbing firm, research their license and see if there are complaints filed against them for a similar problem. There might be a pattern.

[Tickdoc]

man, you guys are great. Thanks for finding the info for me. I'm still screwed, but it's ok, I think we can get out before too much else goes wrong.

I'm sure many discussions will take place this weekend with the missus regarding what we should do.

In other words, we'll talk about building/moving/buying a new place all weekend long.

I might need to stockup on beverages.

[paredown]

Hey Tickdoc--

Based on a few quick searches you are not alone. Numerous municipalities have conducted fairly extensive studies into pinhole leaks due to constituent experiences/complaints. Might be worth following a few of these links for options and to see if you are part of a larger affected local/regional group. Isolated repairs to installed piping, epoxy injection to line existing piping internally, full copper replacement, switching to PEX look to be individual homeowner options.

https://www.wsscwater.com/files/live/sites/wssc/files/PDFs/Study%20of%20Pinhole%20leaks%20Report_1503042.pdf

http://naca-nokomis.com/copper.faqs.6.05_files/PinHoleFAQ.pdf

http://www.plainviewwater.org/Approved%20Copper%20Pinhole%20PR%20Response.pdf

http://www.dailyherald.com/article/20141114/entlife/141119476/

http://www.ocregister.com/2012/02/21/homebuilders-sue-water-districts-over-copper-pipe-leaks/

http://www.repairmyleak.com/about/failure-copper.htm
Awesome--thanks for that. I thought water chemistry because it is a problem that I had never heard of before.

The common thread seems to be the fairly recent practice of water districts treating potable water with Chloramine (chlorine/ammonia) and it causes corrosion:

"Marc Edwards is a Virginia Tech civil and environmental engineering professor and a nationally recognized expert on copper corrosion. Part of his work is to study the causes of pipe failures and how to stop them. He said several legal cases are emerging in California and he expects to be retained as an expert.

“We’ve done probably over a million dollars of research over the last eight years,” Edwards said. “We’ve identified water chemistry, corrosive water, as a key instigator of pinhole leaks." [OC Register link]

I've been dealing with whole house water filtration for a while (ever since we moved here and had our own well.)

It looks like a sensible strategy for removing chloramine is the the same as for removing chlorine--a whole house water filtration setup using carbon filters. This is not too expensive--a double gang 10" 'Big Blue' filter--first for gross particles, second is active carbon. I change my filters about once every six months. And the water will smell and taste better... I did mine myself, but I would think a decent plumber could knock out the setup in half a day (include pressure gauges before and after, shutoffs before and after to make changing filters easier).

[Tickdoc]

Awesome--thanks for that. I thought water chemistry because it is a problem that I had never heard of before.

The common thread seems to be the fairly recent practice of water districts treating potable water with Chloramine (chlorine/ammonia) and it causes corrosion:

"Marc Edwards is a Virginia Tech civil and environmental engineering professor and a nationally recognized expert on copper corrosion. Part of his work is to study the causes of pipe failures and how to stop them. He said several legal cases are emerging in California and he expects to be retained as an expert.

“We’ve done probably over a million dollars of research over the last eight years,” Edwards said. “We’ve identified water chemistry, corrosive water, as a key instigator of pinhole leaks." [OC Register link]

I've been dealing with whole house water filtration for a while (ever since we moved here and had our own well.)

It looks like a sensible strategy for removing chloramine is the the same as for removing chlorine--a whole house water filtration setup using carbon filters. This is not too expensive--a double gang 10" 'Big Blue' filter--first for gross particles, second is active carbon. I change my filters about once every six months. And the water will smell and taste better... I did mine myself, but I would think a decent plumber could knock out the setup in half a day (include pressure gauges before and after, shutoffs before and after to make changing filters easier).

FWIW, we have that installed at our office. One weekend, the plastic connector for the filter on the water main line split and it flooded the whole building. It just hapended to be a holiday weekend, so the leak went undetected for three days straight :mad:

Inspect the cartridge housings regularly, as they are usually plastic.

[Ken Robb]

man, you guys are great. Thanks for finding the info for me. I'm still screwed, but it's ok, I think we can get out before too much else goes wrong.

I'm sure many discussions will take place this weekend with the missus regarding what we should do.

In other words, we'll talk about building/moving/buying a new place all weekend long.

I might need to stockup on beverages.

If you decide to sell you will probably want to reveal the history of plumbing problems. It's the right thing to do and you will also have a good defense against potential lawsuits by your buyer. I don't know what effect the history/disclosure might have on the price you can get vs.the cost of re-plumbing.

[likebikes]

buying a new house because of a leaky pipe is like buying a new bike because of a flat tire.

[vav]

buying a new house because of a leaky pipe is like buying a new bike because of a flat tire.

He is not buying a new house because of a leaky pipe. He is buying a new house because the wife hates it and wants to move :banana:

[Tickdoc]

He is not buying a new house because of a leaky pipe. He is buying a new house because the wife hates it and wants to move :banana:

Ayup. I blame hgtv. They make it look fun to move and remodel all of the time when it is an expensive pain in the arse.

Hgtv is the new joneses as in keeping up with the joneses.

[Ralph]

I just can't fathom the prospect of that. All those pipes in all those hard to reach places. Won't a ton of drywall and painting repairs result after that is done?

Ours went thru the attic. Then dropped down. Don't recall any drywall being cut. Plumber helper a small skinny dude. Also...while doing this....put in a interior shut off in garage, so sprinklers can run while water shut off to house....when we are gone.

My brother in law....who had a two story house....came home one time after being gone a week.....to a ruined house. Pipe to washing machine broke.....flooding whole house. Now...after rebuilding his house....he shuts off the water when he leaves.

[johnniecakes]

I thought hard water was hard on pipes and a water softner resolved the problem. We installed a Kinteco system hoping in part to avoid pipe problems?

Do you have a water softener? Soft water is very aggressive, I have seen it eat through pipes before. Second on the poor quality imported piping, I refuse to use it anymore.

[ColonelJLloyd]

Why does house built in 2005 have copper water plumbing?

[nicrump]

pex and never look back

[Tandem Rider]

I thought hard water was hard on pipes and a water softner resolved the problem. We installed a Kinteco system hoping in part to avoid pipe problems?

Hard water leaves a mineral buildup inside the piping. Soft water makes the water more aggressive leading to erosion of the piping.

Water treatment is a fine art, sort of like tire pressure, too much and some bad things happen, not enough and other bad things happen.

[Tandem Rider]

pex and never look back

Pex??? :eek:

From a fine frame builder?? ;)

Not only would I not brag about using PEX, I wouldn't even admit to it if I did. It is genuinely impossible to make it look workmanlike.

[pbarry]

Ours went thru the attic. Then dropped down. Don't recall any drywall being cut. Plumber helper a small skinny dude. Also...while doing this....put in a interior shut off in garage, so sprinklers can run while water shut off to house....when we are gone.

My brother in law....who had a two story house....came home one time after being gone a week.....to a ruined house. Pipe to washing machine broke.....flooding whole house. Now...after rebuilding his house....he shuts off the water when he leaves.

You have many luxuries living in FL. Among then is being able to route plumbing through an attic! ;)

We have a subdivision in our water district where the upstairs plumbing goes inside the unheated garage ceiling structure. All is fine when someone is living there with the heat on in the winter. But, when someone moves out and the heat is off, broken pipes, and water coming out the front door sill.

[Tickdoc]

Fixed!

I cut out part of the flooring of the under sink area to help him gain access. Thank you so much for all of the suggestions. (Esp you, Barry). I am so happy to have him access from the kitchen rather than tear out part of the exterior. Took most of the afternoon for him to remove the bad and place this. He added a stop valve to the dishwasher and I had him replace the disposal unit as well as it was leaking too.

I'll replace the board I cut out tomorrow, and place some insulation behind the pipes for winter. Right now I am just so relieved to have running water again.....until the next time.

The leak:

https://i.imgur.com/5ghztEYl.jpg

The fix:

https://i.imgur.com/6kYuPgfl.jpg



I learned that the rest of the copper pipes are under the concrete slab or under the walls....not an easy re plumb by any stretch.

I think we can hang in there a few more years.

[Lanternrouge]

Pex??? :eek:

From a fine frame builder?? ;)

Not only would I not brag about using PEX, I wouldn't even admit to it if I did. It is genuinely impossible to make it look workmanlike.

I believe the use of certain PEX product in some new home construction has made a lot of money for some lawyers.

[nicrump]

my bikes are also polymer and they wont be pinholing springing leaks anytime soon either ;-)

seriously though, pex is hard to beat. i just did my new house with it. though we sweated all the stubs but those are easier access WHEN they fail.

the beauty of pex for the limited DIYer is you can use the "expensive" shark bite fittings throughout and still come in at a fraction of having a plumber come in with his fancy pex crimp ring tools and ass crack.

too bad this guys house is a slab or he could re-pipe the entire thing himself for 15% what the plumbers will charge.

Pex??? :eek:

From a fine frame builder?? ;)

Not only would I not brag about using PEX, I wouldn't even admit to it if I did. It is genuinely impossible to make it look workmanlike.

[nicrump]

I believe the use of certain PEX product in some new home construction has made a lot of money for some lawyers.

how is that? i did just read this on classaction.org

We've read through dozens of complaints from people who experienced problems with their PEX tubing and fittings

with nearly 120M households in the US a few dozen can screw up just about anything.

[OtayBW]

the beauty of pex for the limited DIYer is you can use the "expensive" shark bite fittings throughout and still come in at a fraction of having a plumber come in with his fancy pex crimp ring tools and ass crack.
...And just think of the savings on ass crack!! :eek: :D

[Tickdoc]

Ass cracks are a big problem here in the us, but not in Germany:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/e5/0b/2c/e50b2c70d666e66c9b6935ee0910eb64.jpg

[shovelhd]

There was no shutoff valve for the dishwasher? What kind of crack addict plumbers piped this house???

[batman1425]

The Pex fittings in our previous house were hard-piped directly to the sink supplies. The sink supplies were the thin semi flexible copper pipe and they were joined with band compression fittings. Nothing was removable with out cutting the bands or the pipes themselves. I couldn't believe there weren't any serviceable connections on any of the sink supplies in the house. Just another way they cut corners to save money on build up. I had to cut the pex below the existing shut offs and install shark bites with 1/4" threaded compression connections just to be able to remove the faucet. #facepalm.

I'm actually a big fan of Pex, when it is installed properly. It is more flexible if you get a freeze (see my previous post) and the shark-bite fittings are really slick and now rated for in-wall use - though there are versions for copper as well.

If our next house is pex, I'll just buy the crimper. They aren't that expensive and Pex is going to become a lot more common in the future, IMO. It goes together faster in my hands than copper as well.

[batman1425]

FWIW, we have that installed at our office. One weekend, the plastic connector for the filter on the water main line split and it flooded the whole building. It just hapended to be a holiday weekend, so the leak went undetected for three days straight :mad:

Inspect the cartridge housings regularly, as they are usually plastic.

Another valve to look after is the shut off for your washing machine. It's good practice to turn the supply off if you will be away for a while. If the supply line blows - and a lot of them are old dry rotted rubber ones from old washing machines that were never replaced - you have a real mess when you get back. Lots of folks never do this and the valve gets corroded and binds up. Then when trying to shut them off, or turn back on, the fail. That's one set of valves I think it is worth getting good high quality brass fittings for. I like the ones with the single lever that shuts both hot and cold off simultaneously.