OT computer brand question

[parris]

Our son is heading to Binghamton University in the fall for computer science and we're starting to look at lap tops. It's been several years since we've shopped for new computers. Given that are there any brands that seem to be more solid than others? Conversely are there any brands that seem to suffer a greater percentage of problems? Thanks for any feedback.

[Bentley]

Our son is heading to Binghamton University in the fall for computer science and we're starting to look at lap tops. It's been several years since we've shopped for new computers. Given that are there any brands that seem to be more solid than others? Conversely are there any brands that seem to suffer a greater percentage of problems? Thanks for any feedback.

I dealt with the issue for about 8 years. Universities are a hotbed for everything that can go wrong with a computer. Once I wised up and opened the wallet and bought Apple all was good. I don't know if your student does much social media, gaming, etc, but if they do its the only way to be sure they have a computer that works. Most Universities carry them in their Tech store and they will have a back to school deal, should be able to get it done for less than $1500.

My 2 cents

Ray

[ultraman6970]

From the top of your budget look at something less valuable and use that gap of money you are saving to get a warranty for anything it can happen, even if your kids damage it on purpose.

Regarding brands pretty much everything now a days is the same, the warranty will makes the difference specially if he will use the machine to work, not to play...dell has one of the best warranties that I know of.

[bikinchris]

Well, if Apple is not your chosen platform, I just bought a great computer at Costco. They had an older model ASUS gaming computer with 16g of memory and a SSD for booting. This thing is great. I don't intend to play games, but I use it as a sports photographer and it is fun.

[biker72]

From the top of your budget look at something less valuable and use that gap of money you are saving to get a warranty for anything it can happen, even if your kids damage it on purpose.

Regarding brands pretty much everything now a days is the same, the warranty will makes the difference specially if he will use the machine to work, not to play...dell has one of the best warranties that I know of.

+1
Family has 3 Dells. No problems after 3 years.

[AngryScientist]

i know virtually zero about computers, however i bought a quite inexpensive HP several months ago to run zwift on, and it has been just perfect for that and basic computing purposes, running netflix, surfing the net, etc.

does your son know what he will be studying yet? will there be any software things he needs to be able to run or is there any web based programs that he will need to access?

once again, i dont know anything about computers, but best to know the minimum specs he will be needing before making any decisions.

one final thought is that i've bought my last couple machines as factory refurbished units. you cant tell them from new, and they perform just as well for a good discount from new.

[MattTuck]

If he's studying computer science, am I wrong in thinking that he may have his own opinions and ideas of what kind of computer he wants, and will be appropriate for his course work?

[AngryScientist]

If he's studying computer science, am I wrong in thinking that he may have his own opinions and ideas of what kind of computer he wants, and will be appropriate for his course work?

oof, i missed that note. chances are he knows more about this stuff than any of us.

[Llewellyn]

Avoid Dell like a dose of the clap. If they work, they're fine but if something goes wrong then their after sales support isn't worth s**t

[tourmalet]

Any modern laptop has performance far and away superior to what is needed to complete CS coursework. Modern games, video production, or 3D rendering, among other niche applications, would be the only reason to look for a high-end machine. If there's exotic hardware needed for a class, the school will likely provide it as a shared resource for all students.

That said, at my university, Apple Macbooks are the most popular choice. They're not exactly bombproof, but they hold up well to minor abuse. If you do go with an Apple machine, I recommend the AppleCare protection plan--it's a good deal if things go wrong.

Among Windows and Linux users, if that's your son's thing, I see a lot of Lenovo ThinkPads.

[Benneke]

For most college students, reliability is more important than performance, and no one makes more reliable laptops than Apple. The aluminum bodies are some of the most durable out there, and they have great battery performance. It helps that most college students these days seem to use MacBooks, which means that its easy to borrow a compatible charger when you forgot yours at home when you're at the library.

[paredown]

You might want to check with the on-campus computer store/book store. At least when I was still hanging out on campus, the academic deals were as good as you will find from any of the discounters, and the support/delivery is right on campus. There especially used to be a strong Apple university program...

If I were buying, I like Lenovo/Thinkpad/Ideapad--my wife has been using a Lenovo Yoga that has been remarkable for the hours that it has put in without problems, and I'm an old corporate IT guy so I still swear by the Thinkpads.

The trouble now is the same as with cars--every manufacturer has made turkeys or had mis-steps--even Apple has produced some pretty shaky products like the Macbook Pros from the 2007-2010 period, Dell has produced some crap, and HP consumer products has had a lot of misses... So I think support is important.

Just checked--there is a Dell and an Apple program on campus--worth checking prices:
https://www.binghamton.edu/its/hardware/

[parris]

He does know a ton more than I do... But that's really not saying much! ;)

He won't need it for gaming or heavy graphics applications. He already has a hot rod desk top for that end of things. Also given what he's going into Window's machines appear to be somewhat more in tune with what he'll be doing. If that wasn't the case given Apple's reputation we'd go for one of the various Mac Book models.

I just remember that a few years ago some brands had a better rep for being reliable than others. Thanks for the info re warranty as that's not something I thought about.

[Tony T]


…does Windows.

[regularguy412]

First part of this: purely anectodal. Second part: I work with and on Dell computers daily.

So I have personally purchased two HP laptops, both for my daughter. One for college use in 2008 (HS grad present). One for after college use in 2014 (College Grad present). Both are still going strong, tho I did have to buy a new battery for the older one about 4 years ago. I put a new copy of Windows OS on it and now my mom uses that older one.

The company I work for has a contract with Dell to supply our customers with Dell hardware (computers, monitors, printers, etc.) that comes along with our proprietary point of sale software that we sell. Mind you, these are 'daily drivers'. That is: they work 24/7 because they are constantly checking for receives from our network and sends to our network. They have been, for the most part, pretty decent work horses. Average death rate is about 6 years, more or less.

I also own a very old Dell desktop computer that is now over eight years old. I have had to put a new hard drive in it about 3 years ago, but otherwise, seems to work OK.

The newer Dells are coming with either solid state or hybrid drives. They seem to be much more reliable, but we've only started putting them into service about a year ago. So the jury's still out.

Hope that helps.

Mike in AR:beer:

[rounder]

First part of this: purely anectodal. Second part: I work with and on Dell computers daily.

So I have personally purchased two HP laptops, both for my daughter. One for college use in 2008 (HS grad present). One for after college use in 2014 (College Grad present). Both are still going strong, tho I did have to buy a new battery for the older one about 4 years ago. I put a new copy of Windows OS on it and now my mom uses that older one.

The company I work for has a contract with Dell to supply our customers with Dell hardware (computers, monitors, printers, etc.) that comes along with our proprietary point of sale software that we sell. Mind you, these are 'daily drivers'. That is: they work 24/7 because they are constantly checking for receives from our network and sends to our network. They have been, for the most part, pretty decent work horses. Average death rate is about 6 years, more or less.

I also own a very old Dell desktop computer that is now over eight years old. I have had to put a new hard drive in it about 3 years ago, but otherwise, seems to work OK.

The newer Dells are coming with either solid state or hybrid drives. They seem to be much more reliable, but we've only started putting them into service about a year ago. So the jury's still out.

Hope that helps.

Mike in AR:beer:

I think the first decision is what kind of software will be needed.

I have been a CPA for 30+ years and can say that 100% of my experience has been dealing with clients who use Windows and MS Office. Does not mean that he will be.

Most of my clients use Dell computers. Does not mean that they are the best. But, to me Windows and Dell are sort of the standards when it comes to daily business computing. Plus, it seems like Windows 7 is a favorite when it comes to ordering software, and it is still available if you order directly through Dell.

I know that Apple makes great stuff, but for me, Windows and Dell is still a great way to go for every day business purposes.

[gasman]

Ask your son what he wants.

Mine graduated last year with CS degree. He wanted an Apple and still loves them. He knows how to any computer though. It doesn't matter to him.
For most assignments he used the school's machines to run his programs but he wrote them on his.

[martl]

Our son is heading to Binghamton University in the fall for computer science and we're starting to look at lap tops. It's been several years since we've shopped for new computers. Given that are there any brands that seem to be more solid than others? Conversely are there any brands that seem to suffer a greater percentage of problems? Thanks for any feedback.

i use 2nd hand business models (Dell, Lenovo, HP - doesn't really matter) bought from an online shop which sells refurbished and checked items.
Very good experience, i use them a lot professionally (working as it consultant, so they pretty much run 14hrs a day).

heir advantages are: Business grade keyboards, displays etc. plus generally good support, both on the vendors side and from the collective knowledge on the web, as they are sold in large numbers.
Currently i got an Lenovo T430 which cost less than 400€.

[tristan]

Your son will know what he wants and if you give him a budget he'll be able to figure out what model fits best.

Compsci is a wide field and it *may* matter whether he's running Windows, Apple OSX, or some Unix / Linux variant. If he's going down the Unix / Linux area he'll definitely have strong views on which machines are going to be best suited.

[dgauthier]

(...) given what he's going into Window's machines appear to be somewhat more in tune with what he'll be doing. If that wasn't the case given Apple's reputation we'd go for one of the various Mac Book models. (,,,)

Don't write off Apple. Your son's interests and direction may change over the next 4 years. An Apple can grow with him.

MacOS is beloved by web developers because it's all Unix under the hood, and if you're really hard core you can set up a Mac to triple boot into MacOS, Windows, and Linux. Ya can't do that with a Dell.

https://www.google.com/#q=triple+boot+macbook+pro+2017

Also, the Apple hardware is top notch. I retire mine after about 7 years, even though they still work.

[verticaldoug]

Having been through this with my daughter , better to do nothing now and wait.

Stores will be running sales close to fall, he'll have a student discount, and such, so best to wait

Whether Apple/Windows/Linux based really depends on his coursework. My daughter had her Mac from high school which we had to install bootcamp because she needed some libraries which were specific to windows for a class.

eventually we bought a windows machine for all her business work.

I think the worse semester we spent 2000+ for text books so computer is a bargain

[Likes2ridefar]

I just finished an engineering degree, and started out with a MacBook Pro, but finished using almost exclusively an intel NUC plugged into a 32" monitor that also ran in the macs native retina resolution.

I found it much easier to do work on the large screen. Constant multi-tasking is far easier. Two screens would have been even better..

I downloaded all of my software instead of virtually running but did have both options.

I had a few software programs required in junior and senior level courses that were limited or unavailable on the Mac so was forced to run bootcamp. This is Ok but not as good as windows on a pc like the intel nuc.

NUcs are cheap and tiny and portable if necessary. awesome little pcs!

[Tony T]

I had a few software programs required in junior and senior level courses that were limited or unavailable on the Mac so was forced to run bootcamp. This is Ok but not as good as windows on a pc like the intel nuc.


I used bootcamp, but now the better option to run Windows on a Mac is to use run a virtual machine with a product such as Parallels or Fusion (see: http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/how-to-painlessly-run-windows-on-your-mac-1791584042 )

But as you stated, performance will not be as good as on a Windows PC, but it's a good alternative if you only need Windows to runs a few programs that aren't available for the Mac

[AJM100]

Avoid Dell like a dose of the clap. If they work, they're fine but if something goes wrong then their after sales support isn't worth s**t

This + 100000, stick with the fruit IMO (apple) most stable platform I have used and have not had to upgrade or deal with virus issues for many, many years!

[alancw3]

yeah i gotta go with apple. i have a macbook pro laptop after having had two toshiba windows laptops. it took me awhile to learn the apple philosophy on how to do things (more of a drag environment) but i do have to say that i am 100% sold on apple now. oh and the build quality is like over the top compared to toshiba. i have had the macbook pro for about four years now w/o any problems except a malware attack that was not apples fault.

[parris]

Thanks to everyone that replied. I thought that he was going to need the computer by orientation but just found out that's not the case so once we find out what he needs closer to the semester we'll get something.

He's use to working on Windows machines and has also done a little on the Mac Book Pro my wife uses for work.

The whole college thing tends to make my head spin a bit with everything that's got to be lined up.

[ojingoh]

This actually really doesn't matter much anymore unless you're specifically targeting a mac or iOS development, in which case you have to use one of Apple's PCs. They all use the same architecture - x86-64 - or run a reasonable virtualized version. Mac OS cannot be virtualized unless it's on their hardware. If he does want a mac, buy it on campus, he can get a decent discount.

If he's CS, he'll know what he wants. Most sensible solution is to ask profs what to get, since they'll be handing out the assignments, or his classmates, since he'll be working/socializing/gaming along with them.

[rkhatibi]

Features I'd look for in a laptop for college and some general advice.


Two chargers. One is zip-tied to the bed so you know it's not going anywhere and one in the bag.
Onboard video only, no external GPU. Sucks power, adds weight.
Resolution! 2560 x 1440 minimum. Going to be staring at it for 8 hours a day, sharp resolution makes that easier. Don't pay extra for touch screen, it's the worst.
I like 14" as a good compromise on size. 13" always felt small, 15" felt heavy.
Absolutely no spinning disk. SSD drives only. No moving parts means you don't lose everything when you drop the laptop. The laptop will be dropped.
4 year warranty, get one.
Consumer models are for suckers, business laptop only. Macbooks, Thinkpads, Dell Latitude (or XPS though I have better luck with Latitudes), HP Elitebook, etc.
Max the memory, don't worry about the hard drive to start as long as it's 256GB+. Can always swap the hard drive later regardless of brand, Apple welds the RAM into the laptop, might be other models that do too.
Backups. Local and cloud. Cloud for permanence, local because you don't want to a wait hours to download all your data.
Encrypt the hard drive. Minor performance costs these days, no reason not to do it. Supported in Windows, OSX, and Linux. Do the same for the phone too.


Advice for CS students (terminology, acronyms, and 20 years of grumpy opinions ahead)

Looks like the program is C and Java the first year and then mostly C thereafter.

Install Vagrant, Virtualbox and make sure you can clone new virtual machines as needed. I prefer to development in Linux virtual machines since the environment is easier to manage and are separate from any other project. OSX lacks a credible package management system compared to Linux. Sure you can brew install , but can you recreate it exactly? No, you can't. IMO userland is crap on OSX, but installing gnu coreutils can make it mostly sane.

Github, sign up for an account with a name your teachers and first job won't cringe at and start using it. Would recommend learning to us some sort of CI system with it as well. Travis, Circle, etc. Most should have a free tier.

I like running a wiki locally. Make it easy to add notes, write docs, and have it all indexed. ymmv.

If you go Windows, install the Ubuntu userland. Windows still lacks a decent terminal program, but having access to a Linux userland is fantastic. Avoids most of the OSX package management problems, but a little clunky to use.

Would recommend looking at Puppet, Chef, Ansible or any other config management framework. Being able to rebuild your systems from data/code can be a lifesaver. Goes hand in hand with virtual machines as well. Also sometimes I don't want to bring my "old" settings to the new OS, but I do want some of it. If it's defined outside the OS, you can make those decisions.

[m_sasso]

Features I'd look for in a laptop for college and some general advice.

Max the memory, don't worry about the hard drive to start as long as it's 256GB+. Can always swap the hard drive later regardless of brand, Apple welds the RAM into the laptop, might be other models that do too..

Some great tips, however since when did builders start welding there electronics? Surface-mount yes, weld no.

[rkhatibi]

I'm a software geek these days so weld == solder in my ill informed world. :beer: But yes surface mount soldered RAM chips onto the motherboard rather than the two standard slotted modules that contain multiple RAM chips. Only way for the consumer to upgrade is to swap the motherboard.

[simonov]

He does know a ton more than I do... But that's really not saying much! ;)

He won't need it for gaming or heavy graphics applications. He already has a hot rod desk top for that end of things. Also given what he's going into Window's machines appear to be somewhat more in tune with what he'll be doing. If that wasn't the case given Apple's reputation we'd go for one of the various Mac Book models.

I just remember that a few years ago some brands had a better rep for being reliable than others. Thanks for the info re warranty as that's not something I thought about.

FWIW, the software company I work at, which makes products primarily for windows environments, has about a 50/50 split between PC and Mac laptops in use. Even among our engineering teams. If he prefers a Mac, it won't be a barrier to his study or career. And the hardware, IME, is far superior to most of the PC-native brands. I tend to replace the mac machines on my team every 4-5 years and the PCs every 2-3. The higher cost might make it a wash in the end, but it's nice to have a machine in service for years before worrying about issues.

[dgauthier]

(...) Windows still lacks a decent terminal program (...)

I would agree that the Unix/Linux shells are better, but Powershell is fine once you get used to it.

[rkhatibi]

(...) Windows still lacks a decent terminal program (...)

I would agree that the Unix/Linux shells are better, but Powershell is fine once you get used to it.

Shells are not terminal emulators though they are commonly conflated. I'd agree that as a shell or execution environment it's very good and has reasonable parity with bash, etc.