unleashed dogs!!!

[nobrakes]

Last night, we went for a "stress relief" ride, and were taken out by 2 dogs. I have been struggling to get back some fitness and strength after my huge crash last summer, where I nearly died, and spent my entire summer in rehab.

The dogs came out of nowhere, near a farmhouse in the country where we do a lot of training rides, and the dog owners have been talked to many times about keeping the dogs in. There excuse is always that the kids let them out to play, and they forget to put them back in the yard, etc., etc.

Now I've got another broken collarbone, and 3 broken ribs, plus bad bruising on hip and butt, with the usual gravelrash. My wife has much the same, but no broken bones, and a pulled groin muscle. Her knee was out of joint, and very tender. We are both hobbling around on crutches, pretty humorous sight.

We are very fortunate that these injuries will heal in a few weeks, but we both feel that this experience is just a minor setback, and won't disipate our joy of cycling. What really upsets my wife is she ruined her state champion jersey she won a few years ago, and would only wear it on "casual" fun rides like this one was, not for the usual training rides we put on.

There is no moral to this story, just that dogs will always be unpredictable, so watch out for them. I could draw a parallel here about how the dogs in Europe don't bother to chase bikes, etc., that USA dogs are for the most part psychotic attention mongerers, but I don't want to offend the many dog lovers here on the forum, and I love dogs too.

While I was laying in the street, the dog I T-boned was trying to lick my face and play, so they weren't mean dogs, for sure.

[CNY rider]

Did you report this incident to your local animal control officer? What about the prior incidents?
I'd suggest doing it in writing, and asking for written documentation of the complaint. You might be able to stop it from happening again to you or someone else in the future.

[harlond]

I'm sorry to hear about both your crashes and hope you heal quickly. I spent a few days in the hospital myself this spring after a crash, so you have my fullest sympathy and best wishes.

On another note, if the dog owners have been talked to many times and yet failed to take appropriate action, it may well be that they are provably liable for your injuries and that both you and the cycling community might benefit in a moderate way if an attorney were to "communicate" with them on your behalf.

[Frustration]

Animal controle my a$$...


There are probably 20 lawyers here ready to help you learn what a new Meivici rides like when directly compared to a Crumpton, Parlee and Ducati...


.

[Onno]

Here in New York, the owner of a dog who has been warned about the animal's dangerous behavior is liable for pain and suffering in addition to medical and other damages. Lawsuits are a less than ideal way of pursuing justice, but they are a way of pursuing justice. Think of it as a fine collected by the victim. (I say this not as a lawyer, which I'm not, but as someone who thought long and hard before suing the owner of a dog who caused me to crash hard. Of course, this kind of justice also moves very, very, very slowly.)

[bironi]

Animal controle my a$$...


There are probably 20 lawyers here ready to help you learn what a new Meivici rides like when directly compared to a Crumpton, Parlee and Ducati...


.

Please, What is your point?

[67-59]

Of course, this kind of justice also moves very, very, very slowly.)

Perhaps the case would move slowly, but I suspect the owners would quickly learn to control their dogs as soon as they receive notice of the lawsuit, and their lawyer tells them that they really may lose.

[Kevan]

but on behalf of the rest of the cycling community around you, the friends and neighbors you nod to when passing by on bikes, need you to help prevent someone else from nearly dieing as well in a crash mixed with these dogs. I'm not suggesting that you necessarily enjoy a winfall should you win in court (Though you certainly have the right.), but a fence is installed in the their yard in compliance to a court order, or the dogs are given away to someone who truly knows how to care for them, or a charity is benefited.

I've seen a friend chased by a dog out into oncoming traffic. Nothing happened, but it was close, real close, and while we tried to make light of it, there was nothing funny about it.

[nobrakes]

While I do appreciate the suggestions to pursue this dog owner legally, The most I will probably do is just to report the incident to the proper authorities. These people have been warned by other members of our club, other riders yelling at them as they try to outride them, and animal control has visited them, also. The dogs are actually very friendly, but are chasers.

The kids that live there are many, must be 6 or more, several families seem to reside there. The fenced yard has a gate where the kids must let the dogs escape as they come and go. I would feel worse than I do now if these animals were removed from these kids, as they obviously love them. I do want to keep this incident from happening to anyone else, though, maybe have the owners be forced to post warning signs on the order of "irresponsible dog owners ahead, cyclists be aware", or something. Maybe force them to install an "invisable electric fence", which I've seen on other similar farmhouses. I do know my rights, in this regard, but am reluctant to "throw the book" at them because of the kids.

[Kevan]

http://www.rensup.com/t/Gate_Latches_Dtl19751.jpg

[Louis]

But Kevan, then you would also have to mow the lawn for them to make sure that the gate did not get hung up on the 6" tall grass...

[Bud]

Good luck on the recovery. Sorry to hear about the incident. I am a dog lover too. It's funny to hear that the one dog was licking you after you nailed him.

I'm going to refrain from engaging in the conversation about litigation, etc. Get well soon. :)

[slowgoing]

Even if you don't want to seek pain and suffering type damages, your health insurance company might want to contact the dog owner's homeowners' insurance company (assuming they are insured) so it can seek reimbursement of your medical costs. That will put their homeowners' insurance company on notice of the danger posed by the dogs. Their homeowners' insurance company might then do one of a number of things, including: refuse to insure them any further; continue to insure them but exclude coverage for the dogs; or continue to insure them, including for the dogs, but require additional safeguards.

[Samster]

best wishes for a speedy recovery. sounds cliche, but it's sincere.

[onekgguy]

In a situation such as this it's apparent that nothing is going to change until the dog owners are forced to change and unless they change it will only be a matter of time before some unsuspecting biker will again be taken out the way you were. From what you've written it sounds as though you were aware the dogs were a problem and yet were still unable to avoid them. What about the guy who knows nothing of their menacing antics and happens by? The owners have to be made to understand and sometimes that means taking them to court. As difficult as it may be for you, I think you have an obligation to do exactly that.

Kevin

[Sandy]

First, I am very sorry to hear about the accident and its consequences. You certainly have had a difficult time over the last year or so.

Undoubtedly, many on the forum know how much I care about dogs. That love for dogs does NOT equally apply to dog "owners", especially irresponsible owners. I would do the following-

1. I would immediately notify the owners of the dogs, in writing, via certified mail, that you are holding them completely responsible for all costs related to the accident, including but not limited to medical injuries and bicycle damage. I would absolutely insist upon that.

2. I would personally go and speak to someone of authority at the local animal control office and report the incident, giving a history of the situation, and ask if the animal control office could assist in the situation, NOT by seizing the dogs, which seem to be good natured, but perhaps by writing a citation and fining the irresponsible owners so that the dangerous situation does not persist- for both you and other unsuspecting cyclists. Understand that the dogs could also get severely injured or killed also, espececially by automobiles.

It is your right to be able to be ride throught the area without being afraid of being chased by the dogs. It is the owner's responsibility to control their dogs.

I would not let it pass. If the owner got tough about it, I would simply get a lawyer involved. I would force the owner to accept the consequences of his or her lack of dog owner responsibility. Why should you be forced to accept it? I surely wouldn't.



Bow Wow Sandy

PS- I never try to outrun a dog. I just very loudly admonish the dog from chasing me and stop. It has always worked for me. Normally, the dog is in it for the chase ( and/or wants you off his perceived property). I really don't think that dogs very often want to bite you. Of course, if you decide to stop, you better know where your cycling buddies are.

PPS- Most dogs aren't mean. Few dogs are really basically mean. Some dog owner's are irresponsible. Some are very irresponsible and amazingly non-caring and insensitive.

[stevep]

First, I am very sorry to hear about the accident and its consequences. You certainly have had a difficult time over the last year or so.

Undoubtedly, many on the forum know how much I care about dogs. That love for dogs does NOT equally apply to dog "owners", especially irresponsible owners. I would do the following-

1. I would immediately notify the owners of the dogs, in writing, via certified mail, that you are holding them completely responsible for all costs related to the accident, including but not limited to medical injuries and bicycle damage. I would absolutely insist upon that.

2. I would personally go and speak to someone of authority at the local animal control office and report the incident, giving a history of the situation, and ask if the animal control office could assist in the situation, NOT by seizing the dogs, which seem to be good natured, but perhaps by writing a citation and fining the irresponsible owners so that the dangerous situation does not persist- for both you and other unsuspecting cyclists. Understand that the dogs could also get severely injured or killed also, espececially by automobiles.

It is your right to be able to be ride throught the area without being afraid of being chased by the dogs. It is the owner's responsibility to control their dogs.

I would not let it pass. If the owner got tough about it, I would simply get a lawyer involved. I would force the owner to accept the consequences of his or her lack of dog owner responsibility. Why should you be forced to accept it? I surely wouldn't.



Bow Wow Sandy

PS- I never try to outrun a dog. I just very loudly admonish the dog from chasing me and stop. It has always worked for me. Normally, the dog is in it for the chase ( and/or wants you off his perceived property). I really don't think that dogs very often want to bite you. Of course, if you decide to stop, you better know where your cycling buddies are.

PPS- Most dogs aren't mean. Few dogs are really basically mean. Some dog owner's are irresponsible. Some are very irresponsible and amazingly non-caring and insensitive.

im w/ sandy. those idiots need to face the consequences of their irresponsibility.

[Kines]

Well I'm not a dog lover, and I'm not concerned about offending those who are, by telling of one of the most glorious moments of my cycling career earlier this month: my first successful pepper spraying of a Redneck North Carolina must-be-part-Pit-Bull country mongrel. It was even witnessed by its confederate flag stickered dually-truck driving owner. Glorious, I tell ya.

[Kines]

oh - and I didn't even get shot at! - the gun stayed on the rack!

[torquer]

Well I'm not a dog lover, and I'm not concerned about offending those who are, by telling of one of the most glorious moments of my cycling career earlier this month: my first successful pepper spraying of a Redneck North Carolina must-be-part-Pit-Bull country mongrel. It was even witnessed by its confederate flag stickered dually-truck driving owner. Glorious, I tell ya.

Than if you could have sprayed the owner!

Seriously, the owner is the one resonsible, not the dog.

I hope the original poster takes the matter up with the dog owner's home liability insurance company (and if the home, even if its out in the sticks, has a mortgage, then it will be covered by an insurance policy). I understand the OP's reluctance to do anything that would result in the kids losing their dogs, but we have some irresponsible behavior here (keeping the dogs' enclosure unsecured) that shouldn't be ignored.

Even if the dogs don't take down any more cyclists, they are still in danger of being run over.

[BumbleBeeDave]

And the people are nice? Well, gee, that's just great.

But if they have been talked to multiple times and it has done no good, then they need a bit stronger example--like your lawyer telling them they are about to be sued up the wazoo. Unless, of course, they pay for all your medical care and damage to your bikes and sign some sort of enforceable agreement with the animal control officer mandating the dogs will be siezed if they are found loose again.

File a police report NOW. Take pictures of your injuries NOW. Take pictures of and cataloig the damage to your equipment NOW. Then present them with the bill and copies of the photos and let them know in no uncertain terms that if they don't pay up pronto the next call they get will be from your lawyer.

You also need to contact the local bike club and get info on what other cyclists may have had incidents at this same address. You owe it to yourselves and to others cyclists in your community to try to make sure this doesn't happen to anyone else.

People throwing things at me . . . dogs chasing me . . . drivers coming THIS close, then flipping me the bird . . . I'm sorry, but I'm sick of this cr@p and am not very forgiving of it anymore.

BBD

[BumbleBeeDave]

. . . I'm not sorry at all! :mad: :mad: :mad:

BBD

[roadie7]

You have my sympathy. About 3 months ago an unleashed dog ran in front of me on my way to work in a bike shop. I went down while the dog kept barking. A ride to the ER, where my wife works (fortunatley she was off on Sat)., and I had bruised, but not broken ribs. The owner paid for the minor damage and the ruined jersey, a favorite of mine.

Hope you and your wife heal shortly and keep riding.

[nobrakes]

Thanks to all of you for your kind suggestions. I've decided to have another friend from our club drive me out to the house, (I can't legally drive since my crash last summer, and my wife is unable to in her condition), and speak to the owners one to one. I will appeal to their own sensibilities about their responsibility to protect the public from the dogs. My own insurance has taken care of any medical expenses, and damage to our bikes amounts to torn handlebar tape on both our bikes. (I was strong enough today to go out and assess any damage to them).

I believe this is the best option, simply because while we were waiting for a ride back to our vehicle, the owners were kind enough to provide bandages, 1st aid, water, etc., and they weren't raving about "dam bikers riding on their road", or any other derogetory type behavior. My suggestion to them is outlined in my 1st post,(that they post signs or get invisable fence). I'm also going to put in a police report, and let the legal system be the persuader for them to comply to my reasonable request. I probably have excessive empathy for this family, but I also feel a responsibility to my fellow cyclists, and if the dog owners refuse to deal with it, I'll press charges and I have the financial klout (sp?) to make their lives miserable, if need be.

[onekgguy]

I probably have excessive empathy for this family, but I also feel a responsibility to my fellow cyclists, and if the dog owners refuse to deal with it, I'll press charges and I have the financial klout (sp?) to make their lives miserable, if need be.

That's a good start but this is sort of like a divorce where you need to lead with your head and not your heart. Don't go feeling sorry for them at the expense of the next cyclist who comes along and is taken out be these playful pups. Be firm and certain that they must change the way they're operating.

Kevin

[Needs Help]

Now I've got another broken collarbone, and 3 broken ribs, plus bad bruising on hip and butt, with the usual gravelrash.
Sheesh! What a tough break! I can't believe you still cycle. I wish you and your wife well and a speedy recovery.

[BumbleBeeDave]

I agree with onekgguy . . . DON'T feel sorry for them. Do what you have to do to make sure it DOESN'T happen to anyone else. Think of it this way . . . They tell you the kids let the dogs out through the gate? A FIVE DOLLAR combination lock would have prevented ALL of your pain and suffering. They knew it was needed, but didn't want to bother to spend FIVE DOLLARS. Please update us on the results--I'm curious to see whether they will really deal with it, or give you a line . . .

BBD

[H1449-6]

While I do appreciate the suggestions to pursue this dog owner legally, The most I will probably do is just to report the incident to the proper authorities.



What makes you think they'll do anything? They haven't done anything effective to date, per your post.

I do want to keep this incident from happening to anyone else,

Then do something.

I do know my rights, in this regard, but am reluctant to "throw the book" at them because of the kids.

Then nothing will happen.

[H1449-6]

Thanks to all of you for your kind suggestions. I've decided to have another friend from our club drive me out to the house, (I can't legally drive since my crash last summer, and my wife is unable to in her condition), and speak to the owners one to one.



Your naivete is both sort of endearing and absolutely maddening.

[northrider]

I also was "hit" by a dog, broke many bones, torn rotator cuff, on and off therapy for years. My husband has since installed a marine air horn (small size, about 2") on the handlebar of my bike. It works amazingly well. Velcroed to the handlebar, just pull off and shoot. Dogs - mean or otherwise - stop immediately. We now have one on every bike (tandem, road, mountain). It has become like my helmet. I don't ride without it.

[67-59]

I also was "hit" by a dog, broke many bones, torn rotator cuff, on and off therapy for years. My husband has since installed a marine air horn (small size, about 2") on the handlebar of my bike. It works amazingly well. Velcroed to the handlebar, just pull off and shoot. Dogs - mean or otherwise - stop immediately. We now have one on every bike (tandem, road, mountain). It has become like my helmet. I don't ride without it.

Not THAT is one of the most interesting suggestions I've ever heard for dealing with dogs. Might be worth a try....

[onekgguy]

I also was "hit" by a dog, broke many bones, torn rotator cuff, on and off therapy for years. My husband has since installed a marine air horn (small size, about 2") on the handlebar of my bike. It works amazingly well. Velcroed to the handlebar, just pull off and shoot. Dogs - mean or otherwise - stop immediately. We now have one on every bike (tandem, road, mountain). It has become like my helmet. I don't ride without it.

That's a good suggestion but often times it's the dog which is laying in wait...the one you don't see until it's too late. No amount of yelling, bike handling prowess or even an air horn will save you. Been there. (http://www.grapevineartglass.net/video/judgejudy.asx)

Kevin

[northrider]

I agree with you on that, and it would not have helped me in the original incident, but I have used it on many aggressive dogs since. Somehow northern michigan has a lot of loose dogs!

[rider2526]

I am also the victim of a "Chase Dog"..... Broken collarbone, separated shoulder, road rash...you know the routine. I too am against litigation, however more than once is tooo much. Since my crash I spend most of my ride time scanning the property along the roads for movement. It really takes a lot of the enjoyment out of a country ride. I used to ride in a club where the "leader" of the club would return to the home of the "chase dog" and execute the dog after the ride. I never agreed with this action, but we were never chased more than once by any dog.

[Keith A]

onekgguy,

Thanks so much for posting that link.

As I watched the video, I could not believe the attitude from the defendants. It is disturbing to see that these dog owners, who look like your average neighbor, didn't think they had any responsibility at all for the actions of their dog. They thought the cyclists was equally (or totally) to blame because he was in the wrong place at the wrong time. The wife went so far as to say (I'm paraphrasing) that there are plenty of other places to ride and he shouldn't be riding down our road -- after all he was 25 to 35 miles away from his home :crap:

What are we going to do as cyclists to educate the general public with regards to cycling?

I can't remember who I was talking to at the FL Ramble, but they commented about what a difference this world would be if everyone rode bikes...and he is right. I think we would be a healthier, happier and more environmentally conscience people.

[H1449-6]

I looked at the video as well. Good on the cyclist for having his evidence in order.

The defendants were slack jawed yokels with a bad attitude which didn't hurt the cyclist's cause.

[flydhest]

Keith,
That was me. (as an aside, it was great to meet you in person) Just the amount of mutual understanding that could be increased if more people rode would be tremendous. My mother, who is not a cyclist, has over the past 20 years become much more aware and respectful of cyclists because her "baby" is a cyclist. She will bring it up with others when discussions of cyclists come up and having a mother discuss her child apparently makes people see it in another light. Even if not everyone were to cycle, that they knew that their son/daughter/brother/sister/parent did could do a world of good.

[Keith A]

Sorry fly, I was racking my brain trying to recall who I was talking to...but I just couldn't remember :confused:

I too much enjoyed meeting, riding and talking with you and your stroker :)

[gone]

That's a good suggestion but often times it's the dog which is laying in wait...the one you don't see until it's too late. No amount of yelling, bike handling prowess or even an air horn will save you. Been there. (http://www.grapevineartglass.net/video/judgejudy.asx)

Kevin
I watched the video and the saddest part was at the end where the female defendant, dripping sarcasm said "make sure you keep your dog on a leash at all times" as though it was the most ridiculous thing in the world. Unfortunately, many pet owners, especially in rural areas, feel that way.

[onekgguy]

It was never my intention to have to take them to court (JJ no less) but you can see what I was dealing with. Had they offered even a fraction of the cost and admitted they were at fault I would've walked away and let them be but they would'nt do that. Somehow the case wound up in the hands of the people at Judge Judy and they asked us if we'd appear on their show. I was hesitant but the defendants were very much in favor of it knowing that the show would cover whatever judgement was found against them. It's doubtful I would've seen a dime had I won in the county court where I originally filed the case. It's one thing to prevail in court but a whole other issue collecting your winnings.

The dog was mostly tied up after my incident with it but there were times when it still ran loose. I noticed late last year that the dog was no longer around and assume it was finally taken out by a car.

Kevin

[Keith A]

Kevin,

I didn't realize that was actually you!!! I assumed you just posted that as an example. Wow, that couple was really something! I'm glad that you are okay and that everything worked out in the end.

[nobrakes]

Fortunately for me, these dog owners are not 'slack jawed yokels with an attitude', and my naivety is not so great that I can't think of ways that would 'persuade' them to fix the problem as I described. I just prefer the one-on-one approach, which is far more reasonable than trying to get the legal system to see the views of a cyclist, which most of you know, is usually ignored. The dog owner runs a small business in addition to the produce they grow on their farm, and as I noted earlier, I have the means to deter business and persuade them to my way of thinking. This would be a last resort, though, as when talking to them, they seemed to be more than reasonably concerned about the situation. The police report, called in this morning, is CYA, and another avenue of persuasion.

[onekgguy]

Kevin,

I didn't realize that was actually you!!! I assumed you just posted that as an example. Wow, that couple was really something! I'm glad that you are okay and that everything worked out in the end.

Keith,

Yeah, my (our) 15 minutes you know. The people we were up against weren't well off and it wasn't my intention to gouge them. I actually felt sorry for them but I was more concerned that they weren't understanding what was involved with having their dog doing what it was doing...they didn't get it.

Kevin

[Keith A]

...they didn't get it.And I still don't think they got it when it was over. BTW, did they have make good on the amount owed to you?

[onekgguy]

And I still don't think they got it when it was over. BTW, did they have make good on the amount owed to you?

Keith,

The thing with a show such as that is that the show pays you instead of the person you're suing. We had a check in our hands (http://www.kevinandtammy.net/judge_judy_check.htm) within a week of our hearing. The defendants have to go through being humiliated before a national audience but they are obligated to pay nothing.

Kevin

[Keith A]

Kevin,

Thanks for following up the details. I haven't ever watched the show and I overlooked your comments about how the payment was handled.

So other than being embarrassed for a little while, they didn't suffer from their neglectful and irresponsible handling of their dog. In a way, it is too bad that they got off easily as it might have made them think a little harder about the actions (or inaction in this case) if they had to shell out the $3K.

So do you still ride on this road?

[Spinner]

Kevin,

Thanks for sharing the video. I'm glad that you prevailed in front of Judge Judy, despite the fact that you were riding 35 miles from home, JEEEZZZZ.

[onekgguy]

So do you still ride on this road?

Yeah, I'm on that road (hwy 3, between Farmington and Northfield) quite a lot actually. It's a great highway surrounded by cornfields and the occasional farmhouse. There's an eight foot shoulder on each side which makes it ideal for biking.

For over a year after my crash I had a fear that a dog was going to come out of nowhere and take me down again. It put a damper on my rides for sure.

I tried as best I could to reason with them but as you could see from the video they weren't very reasonable. After a while it became apparent that they really didn't care what had happened to me. I could have easily been killed but that wasn't important. Just before the crash I had looked over my shoulder to see what was behind me because I'd dialed the speed up and I wanted to know what my options were should I need them. There was a line of cars traveling along at probably the posted (55mph) or better. The dog was laying low in the ditch and ran out in front of me just as I approached him. I never had a chance to avoid it. I could just as easily have veered into traffic but by the grace of God I ended up in the ditch after hitting the dog.

Part of my testimony which didn't make the show was where I told of having been in that area a few weeks earlier and was chased by the same dog. That first encounter was telling because I saw the dog a couple hundred yards away in the field. It saw me and began to run toward a point up the road where our paths would intersect rather than run toward me. It had obviously played the game before. It was all I could do to outrun the guy that day. On the day of my crash on my outbound ride I remember looking for the dog and being a bit unsure of where along the highway I'd seen it a few weeks earlier. It was when I was headed for home that he got me. I'd been looking for it but even with that it wasn't enough.

Kevin

[Bud]

Nice episode and judgment, bro. I'm glad it worked out for you.

I particularly liked the defendant's counter argument that you were a long way from home and that MN has over 2500 miles of bike trails that you should've been on. . . :rolleyes:

[Keith A]

For over a year after my crash I had a fear that a dog was going to come out of nowhere and take me down again. It put a damper on my rides for sure.I know exactly how you felt. I was hit from behind by a car which totaled my bike and tweaked my back. I stayed off the bike for a while to heal and take a break for a bit. I was shocked that when I started riding again how the sound of a approaching car struck fear in me that I didn't know existed. The first time a car approached from behind after the accident, I actually pulled off the road as the memory from accident all came flooding back to me. It took me a long time and many nervous rides before I was able to overcome the lasting impression that the accident had on me.

[onekgguy]

Bud...thanks.

Keith...it didn't help that on one of my first rides after the crash I had a dog run out on the road in front of me but that time I was able to avoid it. I think I took for granted all those years of riding fearlessly not worrying about much. I have a respect for the dangers out on the road but I don't dwell on them. That would take all the fun out of being out there.

Kevin

[rePhil]

Kevin,

Did the defendants get a monetary reward for appearing?

[onekgguy]

Kevin,

Did the defendants get a monetary reward for appearing?

Yes, but it was very nominal...I think may $100 each. They were pushing us to take the trip out to L.A. to do the show because (as they told me) there was no way they could ever afford to take a trip out there and it would get me off their backs. They no doubt knew that they were going to lose and didn't mind the public humiliation. All the while I was wondering what their defense was going to be. The producers don't tip their hand ahead of time so I had to wait until we were in court to hear it. How lame I thought but what else could they say other than they were wrong and should pay.

Sort of a funny aside...while my wife and I were waiting in the green room before going on there was another producer working with a couple and I remember the producer telling them to not let Judge Judy shush them. "Don't let her shush you...you say what you have to say". Yeah, right.

Kevin

[nobrakes]

That is a kool story. It kinda made me think that if my situation were to get to REAL court, what my chances would be (It probably wouldn't reach a court date in my lifetime!). Anyway, thanks for posting that, as that is pretty much how the dogs came at us, only damage was minimal to our bikes, my wife is bruised up, and I've got some bones to heal. If the dog owners in my case were as beligerant and combative (and STUPID) as the ones on the video, I'd be calling Judge Judy right now. As it stands, the dog owners I'm dealing with appear to be raising very undisiplined children, and are cogniscent of the harm they caused us. All I want from them is a solid way for them to prevent this from happening to other cyclists.