Crazy things happen if you start weighing your bikes . . .

[exapkib]

This evening, while helping a friend to pack for an overseas voyage, we were using a hanging scale to weigh suitcases. I ran out to the garage with the scale to weigh my bikes. I don't know what came over me. I had never done this before. I ride without a computer, I don't weigh bikes or parts--just who I've always been. Apparently, people can change.

Long story short, the results are baffling.

My 'heavy' commuter (Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross) weighed in at 20.5 pounds.

My 'fast' road bike (Yamaguchi steel) weighed 21.8 pounds.

I'm guessing that the weight difference is mostly in the wheels--the purple bike has Mavic A119 rims laced to Record hubs. They feel heavy.

Just goes to show that a lot more goes into the way that a bike feels than weight. Preaching to the choir here (mostly), I know, but I'm still slightly baffled.

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o641/1zaxxon/IMG_8124_zpsjwkx0i1d.jpg (http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/1zaxxon/media/IMG_8124_zpsjwkx0i1d.jpg.html)

http://i1336.photobucket.com/albums/o641/1zaxxon/IMG_9458_zpsok3nuveg.jpg (http://s1336.photobucket.com/user/1zaxxon/media/IMG_9458_zpsok3nuveg.jpg.html)

[rustychisel]

There is absolutely nothing lightweight about the components on the Yamaguchi unless maybe you count the Time pedals, so don't sweat it. It remains one of the most beautiful bikes.

That said, if it were mine I'd love to try it with a different set of wheels and tyres to see how much the ride characteristics etc changed.

[pdmtong]

There is absolutely nothing lightweight about the components on the Yamaguchi unless maybe you count the Time pedals, so don't sweat it. It remains one of the most beautiful bikes.

That said, if it were mine I'd love to try it with a different set of wheels and tyres to see how much the ride characteristics etc changed.

I found the new Bora Once clincher to be transformative (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=101347)

[pdmtong]

There is absolutely nothing lightweight about the components on the Yamaguchi unless maybe you count the Time pedals, so don't sweat it. It remains one of the most beautiful bikes.

That said, if it were mine I'd love to try it with a different set of wheels and tyres to see how much the ride characteristics etc changed.

I found the new Bora Once clincher to be transformative (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=101347)
skip to the last two pages or so

[rustychisel]

I found the new Bora Once clincher to be transformative (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=101347)
skip to the last two pages or so

Roger, gotcha. I can only imagine how you'd feel with some Veloflex Masters in 25 on those Bora's.

[oliver1850]

I built up a mid range circa 1990 60 cm Japanese bike this week with SunTour GPX and Sprint/Wolber tubular wheels. With a pound of Look pedals and cheap post/saddle/bar/stem, I wasn't surprised at the 23 lb. weight. What did surprise me was to see the weight of a similar vintage Italian SLX bike with Chorus listed on Bikepedia at 23.2 lbs. I always weigh my bikes when they are done. Very few have surprised me at how little they weighed. I have 10 lbs to give before I worry about the bike.

[rain dogs]

You can build very respectably light wheels with Campagnolo silver hubs. I don't know what spokes you've got, and those rims are a little beefy.

Next time you build them use HPlus Son TB14's and you'll save 100g on the rims. Anyway you can build up those wheels quite easily to around 1550g-1600g. I have two pairs. That's essentially Zonda level weight while preserveing the aesthetic.

All the stuff you have on that bike is pretty light for the era and comparable to today in many ways. The bike is heavy because it's steel with a steel fork. Likely you have 2600-2800g in that frame and fork. Even a cheap quality aluminium frame and full carbon fork will be only 1600g. High end carbon will be another 400g less. I have an extremely similar (weight/components) steel bike built up with a much less enviable frame, and I love it.

That bike should be, and is built around that beautiful frame and fork, and considering what it is and how it's built it's great. Don't sweat the weight and enjoy the ride.:beer:

[dgauthier]

(...) I'm guessing that the weight difference is mostly in the wheels (...)

Why not weigh the wheels? If the scale is inaccurate for light weights, tie the wheels together and weigh both at the same time, or weigh the bike with and without wheels and subtract. You just didn't go crazy *enough*...

As rain_dogs pointed out, it could be the frame. There's nothing wrong with a stout frame. People on this forum have praised heavy classic steel bikes like the MX Leader (never personally ridden one) for its stability, power transfer and descending prowess. How does your Yamaguchi handle?

By the way, I must say I'm taken with the gorgeous Utah scenery in your photos on this forum. Even your neighborhood is lovely.

[AngryScientist]

as eluded to by pdmtong above, the feel of lighter, stiffer wheels on a sweet steel road bike can totally transform the ride.

if you get the opportunity (or create the opportunity), try some lighter wheels on that bike, carbon tubulars perhaps. you'll be surprised, for sure.

[FlashUNC]

Wheels will make a huge difference in feel on the bike.

But don't discount parts for weight either. Last year I swapped the prior gen Campy 11 speed bits for the latest gen Rev+ stuff. Just replaced the brakes (albeit with ee's), crank, derailleurs and shifters. That swap dropped a pound from my Della Santa.

[JStonebarger]

There's a reason I don't weigh my bikes: Ten posts into this slippery slope and this thread is getting expensive.

[oldpotatoe]

Wheels will make a huge difference in feel on the bike.

But don't discount parts for weight either. Last year I swapped the prior gen Campy 11 speed bits for the latest gen Rev+ stuff. Just replaced the brakes (albeit with ee's), crank, derailleurs and shifters. That swap dropped a pound from my Della Santa.

How much for that 454 grams? More than a $ per gram? Oppps..Not gonna get into this but if I lose a SDW(Standard Bike Weight=20 pounds)off me fat arse, my bike will weigh.....ZERO!!!

[chiasticon]

as eluded to by pdmtong above, the feel of lighter, stiffer wheels on a sweet steel road bike can totally transform the ride.

if you get the opportunity (or create the opportunity), try some lighter wheels on that bike, carbon tubulars perhaps. you'll be surprised, for sure.2nd this. swapping to some carbon wheels totally transformed a couple steel bikes for me. they already rode sweet, but putting the carbon on added a ton of stiffness and responsiveness that was never there otherwise. all the sudden, I had to look down to make sure I wasn't on my aluminum bike...

this, in my opinion, is the main reason people who don't race should look into carbon wheels. particularly low or mid-profile ones, where you don't notice any lag spinning them up. you add lots of stiffness and responsiveness, lose a tiny bit of weight, add a lot of fun.

[thwart]

There's a reason I don't weigh my bikes: Ten posts into this slippery slope and this thread is getting expensive.

This.

Note the original poster said not one word about how his bikes felt or his sense of speed or acceleration on them... he just was surprised by the weights.

Having had Hyperon tubulars (1230 gms) for more than 5 years, and substituting them in on various steel, titanium and carbon bikes, I think the gains are at the bare minimum 50% psychological. IMO.

Which is true for a lot of what we do to our bikes. And to ourselves.

Not that there's anything wrong with that...

[FlashUNC]

How much for that 454 grams? More than a $ per gram? Oppps..Not gonna get into this but if I lose a SDW(Standard Bike Weight=20 pounds)off me fat arse, my bike will weigh.....ZERO!!!

The weight was really incidental. I wanted the new parts for the revised shifting and the silver Record dual pivots we're getting a bit tired. That and I thought the new Campy bits including the crank look awesome. Weight wasn't even really in the equation.

But if the side effect is bringing a steel frame/fork with a pretty beefy quill stem and no weight weenie parts to speak of down to 18 pounds, I won't look a gift horse in the mouth.

My point was merely to highlight that modern parts, even across one generation, can get you some weight savings if that's what you're going for.

[merckxman]

Exactly how I would describe my MX Leader which I've owned since 1994.

I like to try different bikes, sometimes the same material and others with with different materials. It's always interesting to me how bikes can be so different from one to another.



People on this forum have praised heavy classic steel bikes like the MX Leader (never personally ridden one) for its stability, power transfer and descending prowess.

[exapkib]

Grams . . . where bikes and budgets collide . . .

As I said in the original post, I do not intend/cannot afford to make a habit of weighing my bikes. I knew neither was light. I won't be changing any parts out on either bike anytime soon. I love the ride of each bike, and each serves its respective purposes very well (the BMC gets me to work in all kinds of weather and takes me on adventures in the trail network that crisscrosses our foothills, the Yamaguchi makes me smile and bolsters my street cred (and now gives me an extra feeling of accomplishment when I pass others while climbing)).

The primary surprise was the fact that the BMC is lighter than the Yamaguchi.

Riding both bikes gives the opposite impression, again reaffirming the fact that there are ride characteristics created by frame geometry that exist independent of weight. The Yamaguchi moves so much more quickly--feels so much faster.

[Clean39T]

I'm not at all surprised on the weight - my Yamaguchi (http://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=202158&page=2&highlight=yamaguchi) is/was at 21+ lbs for a 59cm - and when I weighed the frame/fork, it was 3.35kg or 7.4lbs! Steel certainly does not have to be that heavy, but our bikes weren't built using anywhere near the lightest tubing or joinery available...is what it is. She's about to get a switch over to DA 7800 - hopefully with some light wheels (thinking about DA 7850 carbon tubs) - so we'll see what that does.

Anyway, I think about it like a 1960s muscle-car - it'll go fast (and feel faster than it actually is - my '64.5 Mustang was harrowing at 100mph), but it'll take a lot more juice to get there - and be a ton of fun along the way given the styling and sound and head-turns.

In contrast, the 14.5lb carbon whip (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170524/3febfc5f51c407e8824cc3368bd65c77.jpg) I've been playing on for a couple weeks is more like my BMW i3 - it's incredibly fast and efficient, but harsh and nowhere near as viscerally appealing. I am PR'ing every climb I hit on it though - by a big margin. It's a combination of the weight and stiffness, plus the 39/25 or 39/23 gear I'm hitting the climbs on - if you can turn that gear and carry speed with it, the impact is incredible. If you've been default dropping into a 34/28 and spinning on every pitch, try 34/21 or 34/19 and powering up at full tilt. It's quite fun :D

Anyway, back to the point, I guess an Italian supercar would split the difference - soul plus efficiency - but I'll never have the money to experience one of those.

I may however get to experience an Italian super-bicycle one of these days - a Wilier Zero.7 or Nago C-60 or ?? would certainly be fun.

I am quite excited to see how I get on with the Ti frames showing up at my door today - they may also split the difference and give me the soul/efficiency ratio I'm in search of..

[benb]

Well.. your commuter doesn't have fenders or a rack.. so I wouldn't worry about it weighing less than your "fast" bike. Put the fenders and a rack on it like it should have and it will probably weigh more than the fast bike!

[pdmtong]

The Yam is great and if you want a certain aesthetic, the alloy group and metal cockpit are part of the equation. so the only thing left is wheels. I would think even neutrons or shamals would be fun to try and also yield a difference you can decide if you like.

I do think a light bike rides "nicer" but that also depends on what kind of riding (speed, distance, elevation) you plan to do.

reducing overall weight on a lugged metal frame/fork can get expensive, and since you already have it built looking great, I would try a new wheelset and then decide if you like the ride result and are willing to make an investment.

FWIW I think my vanilla with the boras is now in the high 18s or low 19s...I'd have to weigh it. it was closer to 20 with the 32h OP CD wheelset

[Lewis Moon]

as eluded to by pdmtong above, the feel of lighter, stiffer wheels on a sweet steel road bike can totally transform the ride.

if you get the opportunity (or create the opportunity), try some lighter wheels on that bike, carbon tubulars perhaps. you'll be surprised, for sure.

I second this 100%. My sewer pipe Benotto track bike came with a set of machine built Origin8 wheels, and it felt decidedly doggy. I built up a set of Archtypes I had hanging in the garage with Dura Ace track hubs and Sapim race spokes annnnnd....wow.

[jumphigher]

IMO frame geometry and wheels make much more of a difference than bike weight. Thus sometimes heavier rides can seem much livelier than lighter ones. Not every time of course, and lighter is generally better, but I dont think lighter counts for as much as a lot of people think.

Also notjng that what some people are calling 'heavy' in this thread are still lightweight bikes by most standards. Just not as light as the ultralight stuff. :beer:

[Catman]

I learned long ago much more effects the "weight" than actual weight. Bearings, wheel weight, & drag will all make a huge difference!


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