Help with value of All City Space Horse.

[sean.allan.t]

Not sure if I should post in classifieds, so I'm trying here.

I would like to purchase this bike for my wife. I think it's overpriced and I have my own guess what it is worth, but could anyone give me an educated guess as to a good offer price? Thanks!

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/bik/6132060124.html

Sean

[likebikes]

msrp on a new, complete space horse is $1150.

[AngryScientist]

i'm thinking about half of asking price.

10 speed groups, especially 105 are pretty cheap to find, and the frame is not an expensive one in the first place.

seller is obviously in the know on bike parts and lists the wheelset very vaguely, which means it's nothing special at all.

also, sold brand new complete for 1150 and frame for 599.

sorry to the seller, but upgrade all you want, used bikes dont appreciate in value like that!

[JAGI410]

$800-950 with all the extras.

[charliedid]

Seems ballpark fair based on description.

[Hilltopperny]

I'd just post a wtb in the classifieds for what you want and your budget. You could build one of these up brand new for less than the asking price. Used bikes depreciate rapidly and this is a common bike and build.

[charliedid]

I'd just post a wtb in the classifieds for what you want and your budget. You could build one of these up brand new for less than the asking price. Used bikes depreciate rapidly and this is a common bike and build.

I'd suggest that someone who is asking a Forum if a used bike is priced right has no inclination or ability to build up a bike like this. It's in fact not a typical build, the stock bike is a Tiagra bike with pretty average but solid build parts for $1150.00 Retail.

If someone came in our shop and wanted to build this bike as (mostly described) as wheels are an unknown I would easily be in the $2800 range out the door, maybe more.

So sure, if you can do it all yourself great! I'm guessing not.

[Bentley]

I would argue that mixing retail and used prices adds to the confusion. Let's say $2800 is the new price, it's used, the frame is nice but nothing "unique", I would say the high end value range is $1400, $1000 probably a realistic sale price. The seller would do better parting the bike out. I've seen way better here for about the same money as the asking price.

My 2 cents

I'd suggest that someone who is asking a Forum if a used bike is priced right has no inclination or ability to build up a bike like this. It's in fact not a typical build, the stock bike is a Tiagra bike with pretty average but solid build parts for $1150.00 Retail.

If someone came in our shop and wanted to build this bike as (mostly described) as wheels are an unknown I would easily be in the $2800 range out the door, maybe more.

So sure, if you can do it all yourself great! I'm guessing not.

[charliedid]

I would argue that mixing retail and used prices adds to the confusion. Let's say $2800 is the new price, it's used, the frame is nice but nothing "unique", I would say the high end value range is $1400, $1000 probably a realistic sale price. The seller would do better parting the bike out. I've seen way better here for about the same money as the asking price.

My 2 cents

Not a terrible argument. :-)

[benb]

Modifications usually don't really add up to make something more valuable.. I own a space horse, no way I'd pay $1850 for a used one. Very little value add on the mods in this case IMO, particularly if the Dead cockpit setup ended up not suiting you.

That said the frame is a tank, it's super durable and mine has pretty much even laughed off thousands of miles of new england winter without any damage as far as I can see. Good frame, just not worth much.

The price must have come down, they used to be about $1300 new when they came out.

Controversial for me to say this but you can go buy a brand new Space Horse Disc instead and save yourself some money.

The seller in this case is not specifying the brakes and wheels.. they actually look stock. The stock wheels are bombproof beyond belief but they are super heavy. The stock brakes SUCK. You will be immediately trying to figure out a better braking solution if you buy this one and you're a powerful rider. Whereas just going and buying a new one with discs you'll save money and have better brakes right out of the box. I have spent a ton of time trying to get a really great rim brake setup on this bike, and nothing I've done has been as good as a disc one would perform. There is just something with the geometry of the non-disc version that isn't optimal for brake setup. Lots of shudder with Cantis if you use the stock hanger, and the fork is so wide you can't really dial in good brake performance if you stick a narrower rim in there. It prevented me from using two sets of rims to have one setup for faster use on road and one setup for bigger tires for mixed terrain use.

[charliedid]

Modifications usually don't really add up to make something more valuable.. I own a space horse, no way I'd pay $1850 for a used one. Very little value add on the mods in this case IMO, particularly if the Dead cockpit setup ended up not suiting you.

That said the frame is a tank, it's super durable and mine has pretty much even laughed off thousands of miles of new england winter without any damage as far as I can see. Good frame, just not worth much.

The price must have come down, they used to be about $1300 new when they came out.

Controversial for me to say this but you can go buy a brand new Space Horse Disc instead and save yourself some money.

The seller in this case is not specifying the brakes and wheels.. they actually look stock. The stock wheels are bombproof beyond belief but they are super heavy. The stock brakes SUCK. You will be immediately trying to figure out a better braking solution if you buy this one and you're a powerful rider. Whereas just going and buying a new one with discs you'll save money and have better brakes right out of the box. I have spent a ton of time trying to get a really great rim brake setup on this bike, and nothing I've done has been as good as a disc one would perform. There is just something with the geometry of the non-disc version that isn't optimal for brake setup. Lots of shudder with Cantis if you use the stock hanger, and the fork is so wide you can't really dial in good brake performance if you stick a narrower rim in there. It prevented me from using two sets of rims to have one setup for faster use on road and one setup for bigger tires for mixed terrain use.

"I own a space horse, no way I'd pay $1850 for a used one"

Sure but that doesn't mean $1800 is not a good value to someone else.

[choke]

If someone came in our shop and wanted to build this bike as (mostly described) as wheels are an unknown I would easily be in the $2800 range out the door, maybe more.OK, I have to ask....why so much?

Frame = $600
105 group = $625 at Excel, so let's say $800 at a LBS
Killer wheels = $500
Misc parts (saddle, bars, stem, etc) = $500, which is probably high

Total = $2400

[benb]

Well those of us who own the bike will have a different perspective than those who might not have even rode it.

There's nothing really on this used bike which will make it perform better than a new one that costs a lot less, that's all, and when you start pushing $2k you can buy a lot more bike that is brand new for that money.

The cranks/derailleurs don't make much difference, cockpit parts can be personal, the two mods that actually improve this bike a substantial amount would be a wheel upgrade and a really good brake setup. You can take *pounds* off this bike by putting a quality wheelset on it.

Same thing with having a shop custom build you one of these and ending up walking out the door having spent $2500-3000. You're kind of getting taken for a ride. You're going to have a $3000 bike that weighs 23lbs with a pretty pedestrian steel fork. And that's assuming you put a lot of the budget into wheels. If you spent it on derailleurs and parts like that you're going to still have a bike closer to 25lbs.

Not saying it's not a good bike, I really like mine, but you don't want to overpay for it.

[d_douglas]

I saw one of these up close yesterday - it's a very nice looking bike. It also sounds overpriced.

[sean.allan.t]

Hey thanks for all the thoughts.

I build up and sell bikes from frames and parts that I find used (throw in the few new parts like bar tape, cables, etc) and so I know the pricing on building up something like this from parts. Of course that depends a lot on the wheels and group. If it was built from new probably in the $2 - $3k range. But I couldn't sell it for anywhere near that.

So, the reason for asking is that I don't have time at the moment to build another bike, much less be patient to get the best prices for all the parts that I want. But more importantly, I wanted some backup when I go to him with my really low offer.

So, all the help here, objective and subjective is really appreciated!

Thanks.

[benb]

I would verify from the seller what the wheels and brakes are if you're going to put in an offer.

They are not listing what they are, I kind of suspect this was a complete bike from All-City that got upgrades, not a ground up build. If it was a ground up build you would really expect the wheels to be listed, and you wouldn't expect it to have the Tektro CR720 brakes, the brakes on this bike look like the Tektros. Hard to tell but the wheels look stock too.

Everyone is different.. Chris King Headset would be like the absolute last thing I'd upgrade on a bike! I don't think I've ever changed a headset, the stock headsets have always been fine, All City uses a Cane Creek setup and it's totally fine IMO. (I have had a CK headset before, but it didn't do anything magical IMO)

I have changed out derailleurs and stuff on my bike but only cause they wore out.. even the cranks.. I got rid of the stock Tiagra cranks when I wore out the rings on them.

I doubt I'd put my bike up for $1800, and I've even got a PM on mine, and I've also got the 105 5700 parts for this one. If I was just naively going to sell it my guess is I would have put it up for under $1000. I'd probably have taken the PM off though.

[charliedid]

OK, I have to ask....why so much?

Frame = $600
105 group = $625 at Excel, so let's say $800 at a LBS
Killer wheels = $500
Misc parts (saddle, bars, stem, etc) = $500, which is probably high

Total = $2400

Well, we don't give away labor and if we build from a frame we face and chase everything possible including the stem if needed and dics brakes if used. We would also give it a framesaver treatment. Pro build in our shop ranges from $250-$350 depending on the bike. So add that and tax (out the door) my ballpark price adds up. Shimano is all over the place but last time I bought a full group from them it was closer to $900. We don't price match and we don't base our pricing on internet sites here or in the UK.

We believe we deliver a great product and good value in the end. It takes a long time to cherry pick and put bikes together. Don't even get me started on shipping costs etc.

Bikes shops are a lousy business ;-)

[pbarry]

If your offer doesn't work out, post a WTB here. Someone has a nice rig at a good price.

[charliedid]

Hey thanks for all the thoughts.

I build up and sell bikes from frames and parts that I find used (throw in the few new parts like bar tape, cables, etc) and so I know the pricing on building up something like this from parts. Of course that depends a lot on the wheels and group. If it was built from new probably in the $2 - $3k range. But I couldn't sell it for anywhere near that.

So, the reason for asking is that I don't have time at the moment to build another bike, much less be patient to get the best prices for all the parts that I want. But more importantly, I wanted some backup when I go to him with my really low offer.

So, all the help here, objective and subjective is really appreciated!

Thanks.

Thanks for the context, sorry if I assumed incorrectly. Make an offer, all they can say is no or counter :-)